RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 5, 2007 14:50:29 GMT -5
However, nesta, your claim is giving me pause. It's all very WIFOM, but I have no reason to trust what you say. I'm not at all familiar with the show, but as you say, yours was an evil character. Granted, that doesn't necessarily translate to being scum here, but I'm hesitant to be found by you. I have no indication that I'm in any way "broken", so I'm not sure what benefit the crew would gain by my being "fixed". Your description of your Role PM makes it clear you don't know exactly what effect finding me would bring. Of course, that's working under the assumption that you're not going to simply kill me. However, even if I did trust you, the scum now know me as an unkillable townie. Popping my head up to allow you to tinker with it would also give them a clear shot at removing it. Pardon me if I decline your "fixing" offer -- I like my head where it is. :cough: unless Nesta is the GODFATHER 2.0, I'm quite assured that he is indeed Pro-Town. He is an investigator, and a Pro-town one at that to boot. Now... your reluctance to be fixed, Hal, by a pro-town member worries me just a tad. Because currently, I believe you're town, because Dotchan3.0 is saying so quite clearly that you're town. However... you not wanting to go along with the other pro-townie investigator worries me slightly. I really hope you're not a SK playing for keeps or anything like that, Hal. Because we have 3 people looking for you now. 1 scum 1 bounty hunter/town and 1 investigator/ town. I don't find you anywhere close to being guilty, but I really really don't want to have to waste an investigation on you, Hal.... It's one reason I haven't look at Cat, I've been trying to find all the people who've yet to claim to state their roles/alliances. But your hesitance worries me Hal. Just an FYI.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 5, 2007 14:51:15 GMT -5
*edit* "we HAVE had 3 people looking for you now."
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 5, 2007 14:59:51 GMT -5
Hi folks.
First things first. I don't know anything about any actions that Branden Shaw took in his time in the game. Even though I was him. All such questions will be met with "Didn't you lynch him?"
Secondly, I need to read the thread again. Then WTFs posts. A little time would be appreciated, to make sure I've got up to date.
We've got what, 27½ hours? It shouldn't take too long to catch up on Today.
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Post by CatInASuit on Nov 5, 2007 15:11:00 GMT -5
A bit more maths on the current endgame. Assuming I am lynched tonight, in most situations, it is likely to turn into a game of 3-handed mafia barring interventions from doctors. It also assumes any recruit has taken place or can take place on the same night as a kill. Situation 1.assuming 1 scum + 1 recruit gives 7 town 2 scum Day 8: town dies, overnight town dies leaves 5 town 2 scum Day 9 : town dies, overnight town dies leaves 3 town 2 scum Day 10: scum dies, overnight town dies leaves 2 town 1 scum Situation 2.assume 2 scum gives 7 town 2 scum Day 8: town dies, overnight town dies leaves 5 town 2 scum Day 9 : scum dies, overnight town dies leaves 4 town 1 scum Day 10: scum dies end of game Situation 3.assume 2 scum + 1 recruit gives 6 town 3 scum Day 8: town dies, overnight town dies leaves 4 town 3 scum Day 9 : scum dies, overnight town dies leaves 3 town 2 scum Day 10: scum dies, overnight town dies leaves 2 town 1 scum The good news is that Idle Thoughts can get me lynched today without ruining it for the town.
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Post by CatInASuit on Nov 5, 2007 15:34:11 GMT -5
I read back thought whatthefrak's posts while trying to compile why I felt he was scummy and I noticed the following. I don't really care too much about changing anyone's mind at this point, but I'm going to lay this out anyway. I'll be toast toDay if I don't say anything, or toNight because I did. One way or another, I'm frakked. My character is Zoe Washburne, first mate of Serenity. Due to my military training I may target a crewmate each Night. If he or she is targeted for a kill, I have a 50% chance of blocking the attack. I may not target myself. I targetted MadTheSwine last Night because if his claim to be a mason was true, I figured he'd be targetted by scum. I didn't really have much else to go on. Do what you want with this information. I'll probably post again in the morning if need be. If I'm alive by the evening, I may post again then. In his roleclaim, did he even mention which side he is on? Everyone else has been pretty certain about saying they are Crew or Alliance. In this roleclaim, it just mentions the power the player says they have. Comments anyone?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 5, 2007 16:38:15 GMT -5
Where did I say this? Can you quote it to me? Because they never said to me there were three people with fifty percent protection powers. I don't recall saying they did tell me that, either. From an earlier question about 50% docs from dotchan you replied with the following. Umm, would you like to clarify Idle Thoughts? What needs clarifying? Does or does not that question read also as the following: "So the mods said they were making another fifty percent role?" That's how I took it and that's how I was answering it. Yes, they did say they were making another fifty percent Doc role. Me, I assume it's a third Doc type/protection type one since WTF claimed to have 50 percent protective powers too. As you see from my post where I first reveal this, I even say myself: "There is a THIRD player with a fifty percent protection power". Note the word third there. This is because WTF claimed one earlier, as you know. So color me confused why you're thinking me answering "yes" to "did the mods tell you there was a third protective role?" is being unclear or evasive. They told me there is another fifty percent protection role! Is this not what I said? Seems clear to me it's what I said. Me, I have no idea if it's REALLY a third one for the proTown or not or even the third one in general. For all I know, WTF is lying or a protective role for the other side. But that does not change the fact that s/he claimed a fifty percent protection role and that I'm not ready to fully say or think tthat s/he is lying....so either way, there is another protective role out there that is neither him or me (regardless of if he's telling the truth or not).
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Post by Hal Briston on Nov 5, 2007 16:45:27 GMT -5
:cough: unless Nesta is the GODFATHER 2.0, I'm quite assured that he is indeed Pro-Town. He is an investigator, and a Pro-town one at that to boot. D'oh...you're right, nesta is pretty much confirmed. Still, from a "crew winning this game" perspective, I'm pretty damn valuable -- the scum cannot kill me without me poking my head up, so I'm keeping this noggin down. Hmmm...this raises a question. I mention being valuable, because of the numbers advantage involved. However, is my very presence game-breaking? As long as I keep my head down, is it possible for the scum to win? Let's say we come down to just myself and one scum remaining. We'd be voting for each other, but neither would get a majority. The scum couldn't nightkill me, so we'd be at a stalemate, wouldn't we? The only way I see for the scum to be able to win is to have the numbers needed to day-lynch me. Mods, have any input to add here?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 5, 2007 16:46:02 GMT -5
Come on CatinaSuit.... I can understand Idle's points, can't you see what he's saying? Idle, can you see where CAT is coming from at least? Yeah. He's thinking I literally meant/was saying "The Mods have told me there were/are THREE 50 percent protective roles and all for Town" by answering that. I can see how it could possibly have been taken that way. But it was meant this way: "Yes, the mods have told me that there is another 50 percent protective role and that it is NOT the first or second person who is already known to be these roles". To me, that makes three....whether the other two are telling the truth or not. Me, I have no idea if WTF is telling the truth or not. But s/he HAS claimed 50 percent protection role. That makes three possibles...becasue there is another one besides me and him/her. And to answer your questions...they didn't say anything one way or another. All they said was "there is now another person who has 50 percent Doc and has your powers and is Town" (not verbatim, but the facts are all there). They made no mention or reference to 3rd or 2nd or whatever number of this kind of role. Just that "there is another now since you lost half your powers". And that's it. That's all I know.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 5, 2007 16:49:19 GMT -5
Yeah Mhaye... didn't we lynch you already... You Survivor you... >: ) Come back for more, eh? Like Dotchan3.0.... j/k You shall be called WhatTheHaye though. Any please... contribute. Help us out here. mtgman was the Survivor. MHaye was the Crazy Town
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 5, 2007 16:55:16 GMT -5
As far as I know, if there's only two people left and one is scum and the other is Town, the scum win. They win all ties. Well, really, they win regardless whenever they match the same number as Town (or, in some games I've seen and hosted, the number of Town + 1). So one Town and one scum would be a scum win.
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Post by Hal Briston on Nov 5, 2007 17:18:45 GMT -5
As far as I know, if there's only two people left and one is scum and the other is Town, the scum win. They win all ties. Well, really, they win regardless whenever they match the same number as Town (or, in some games I've seen and hosted, the number of Town + 1). So one Town and one scum would be a scum win. Yes, but that's because even if a course of action can't be agreed upon during the day, the scum can just take out the town at night. Not the case here.
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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 5, 2007 17:20:27 GMT -5
:cough: unless Nesta is the GODFATHER 2.0, I'm quite assured that he is indeed Pro-Town. He is an investigator, and a Pro-town one at that to boot. D'oh...you're right, nesta is pretty much confirmed. Still, from a "crew winning this game" perspective, I'm pretty gorram valuable -- the scum cannot kill me without me poking my head up, so I'm keeping this noggin down. Hmmm...this raises a question. I mention being valuable, because of the numbers advantage involved. However, is my very presence game-breaking? As long as I keep my head down, is it possible for the scum to win? Let's say we come down to just myself and one scum remaining. We'd be voting for each other, but neither would get a majority. The scum couldn't nightkill me, so we'd be at a stalemate, wouldn't we? The only way I see for the scum to be able to win is to have the numbers needed to day-lynch me. Mods, have any input to add here?Only this. Scum only has to equal 50% of the town to win, it does not have to be more than 50%.
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Post by Hal Briston on Nov 5, 2007 17:23:02 GMT -5
Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the ruling.
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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 5, 2007 17:24:53 GMT -5
For in game logic for the scum winning if it comes down to just you and the scum, if you are the last one left alive on the last day they can just kill you without needing to wait for Nightfall.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Nov 5, 2007 17:41:47 GMT -5
A thought.
Nesta and Roosh are either both lying or both telling the truth. So we could, theoretically, lynch Nesta and find out for certain on the accuracy on this claim. If Nesta turns up town, Roosh's investigation results are trustworthy; if Nesta turns up scum, we lynch Roosh as well.
Of course, this plan is very dangerous considering that there may or may not be recruitment still left on the table.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 5, 2007 18:06:50 GMT -5
A thought. Nesta and Roosh are either both lying or both telling the truth. So we could, theoretically, lynch Nesta and find out for certain on the accuracy on this claim. If Nesta turns up town, Roosh's investigation results are trustworthy; if Nesta turns up scum, we lynch Roosh as well. Of course, this plan is very dangerous considering that there may or may not be recruitment still left on the table. I don't like that plan.
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Post by nesta on Nov 5, 2007 18:15:33 GMT -5
Nesta and Roosh are either both lying or both telling the truth. That's not necessarily the case. I'm still a little suspicious of Roosh despite his correctly identifying my role/alignment. He's basically given us a list of whom to lynch for the next three days. If he's scum and we follow his list we probably lose. I point that out so that if I'm killed you don't automatically trust Roosh because he was right about me. Also, I think if we lynched Roosh (not that I'm suggesting it Today) and he comes back scum I know I'll be implicated as a result, but since I'm town I know that implication would be wrong. False dichotomy.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 5, 2007 18:40:52 GMT -5
There's a story told about one of the UK's leading barristers - FE Smith, I think.
He was acting in a case where the judge was notoriously slow at grasping the finer points at issue in certain technical areas, and one of the central issues of the case lay in one of his weak areas.
After a querulous interjection too many from teh Bench, Smith launched into a masterly summation of the technical question and what the expert witness had just said.
The judge said. "Thank you Mr. Smith. Unfortunately I am none the wiser."
He replied "No, my Lord. But you are better informed."
Right now I feel like that judge.
I've read Today and am not much closer to a conclusion.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 5, 2007 18:54:14 GMT -5
So what did I learn?
My first gut reaction was suspicion of Zeriel. I wasn't convinced that the claimed name was real.
I understand the underlying joke - after all I played M5. I also have to say that it's the sort of joke NAFKat might enjoy. But would they do it? It drives a horse and cart through the plausibility of the game.
Yes I know that (at least from posts made by Firefly fans) Town-aligned Reavers and Kaylee the scumbucket are not well-founded in the Firefly canon. But the elements exist in the Firefly worlds and so the scenario can be made plausible with a little imagination.
But Top Dog? It completely shatters the mood. It makes me think that Zeriel has something to hide. What, I don't know. I just have this itchy feeling that he's not telling the truth.
If not Zeriel though, my main suspicions would be those claiming simple vanilla Crew. That is, after all, a straightforward claim with no niggly details to get caught out on. That is CatInASuit and HockeyMonkey. Of those, HM has more support than the Sharp-Dressed Cat because of Roosh's claim to have investigated her on Night 6.
But Zeriel has a vote for Cat, and I don't trust Zeriel right now.
For now I'm going to vote Zeriel.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 5, 2007 18:59:11 GMT -5
Nesta and Roosh are either both lying or both telling the truth. So we could, theoretically, lynch Nesta and find out for certain on the accuracy on this claim. If Nesta turns up town, Roosh's investigation results are trustworthy; if Nesta turns up scum, we lynch Roosh as well. *head smack Smiley* If you lynch me or nesta just to test the Validity of my COPNESS... then you as a Town should burn in Hell. I would not CARE then... because the SHEER amount of stupidity present in that action would cause me to turn my back on you peoples.... I was perfectly happy to not reveal my investigations until I found an actual Scum, but here we have messages FROM BEYOND telling us to work as a team, and I realized that I haven't been helping the town as much as I should, and with the fact that would COULD potentially have a chance to win here. So EXCUSE me for trying to help out here and sticking out my neck. I could have just been quiet the whole time time, hoping to get lucky, but noooo. I show you the crumbs. I show you the Posts. and I show you ALL my freaking posts on it too, explaining EVERY one of my actions, everyone of my PMs.... And yet still "Maybe we should lynch the cop to prove Nesta's towniness. Or maybe we should lynch the other investigator to prove The Copness".... already Nesta's mentioned why that's bad.... But JESUS CHRIST.... (>_<) THAT would be the dumbest move in this game currently... and my faith you people as a town, would go down to ZERO. I know you're a (nearly confirmed) Mason and all... but it's comments like that, Dotchan, that make me wonder what you're smoking Dotchan...... /rant Yeah, yeah, I know I'm not a nice "friendly" cop. Atarus was him, and he's dead. So I do things my way. And this ain't Mayberry, and I ain't Andy griffith. So sorry for the ranting... but jeez... that's just... Wow. I dunno. Sorry. Just... I'll walk away. I know you said "theoretically" Dotchan.... But man. That theory needs a lot of work. (-_-) ~~~~~~~~` Why's everyone so damn sure there's a recruit btw? Cat keeps saying there is, but never mentions the possibility of there NOT being one. What happened to taking things one at a time? Find the SCUM, we'll know what his ability is. So far no scum has had the recruiting ability, so we find the last "TRUE" scum, lynch him, and then see what his powers are. Then we worry about the recruit.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 5, 2007 19:32:05 GMT -5
I find it completely plausible that NAF and Kat put a character named Top Dog in this game. If I were modding I could have come up with the same joke. They are truly truly evil and just want to see how this social experiment turns out.
NAF: Hey Kat, why don't we toss in a Top Dog. Kat: Oh, evil, I like it. NAF: Then when one of them claims we can watch them twist. Who would believe we did that? Kat: What scum in their right mind would claim to be Top Dog after the last game we went through. That puts a whole new spin on WIFOM. I like it. NAF: It's settled then. Top Dog is in.
Yeah that's how I envision the conversation going. Thanks Evil Moderators. You've at the very least made the game interesting.
Does that mean I don't suspect zeriel? Nope, just means that I don't think his name is relevant any more than the rest of us.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Nov 5, 2007 19:48:30 GMT -5
Yeah, we've seen how well voting based on role names worked.
And my idea was just floating a trial balloon. Since both of the players in question are against it, I'm more than willing to trash said plan.
I believe there isn't a recruitment power. But I don't know for sure, so I'm leaving the possibility open.
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Post by Zeriel on Nov 5, 2007 20:16:19 GMT -5
I'm thinking that more and more Cat's certainty about the number of scum and the recruit, should there be one, is a good indicator here.
Roosh and nesta, I don't trust yet, but at the same time I'm not willing to lynch either of them to find out the truth.
MHaye's "reasoning" is pushing me towards voting for him instead of Cat. I'd be comfortable there too. I mean, here's a guy who claims to be the deepest of the deep thinkers, never makes a wave, always thinking ahead to deliver these big analyses that have so far this game never materialized. When he finally DOES come out and take a stand upon being subbed back in, he votes for me based on my name claim. Didn't the Chia Bingo Manager incident teach us anything?
FOS WhatTheHaye
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Post by Zeriel on Nov 5, 2007 20:17:56 GMT -5
NETA: Hell, didn't the Ramiro incident teach us anything? Or the death of the Reaver? Names are utterly twisted in this town, and mean nothing.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 5, 2007 23:42:16 GMT -5
Well the way I see it: Zeriel- Scummiest (of the three) based on Name alone. Cat - Scummiest of the three based on Actions during day 1-3 alone. WtH- Scummiest based on just being Alive....
Which one do I go with? :shrug: I'd say... cat or wth more likely. But I don't know which. I'd be down with either one then i guess. Right now i'm leaning like 60-40 towards Cat though. So WhatTheHaye, gets to 'splaining. You might actually be able to persuade me further to not vote you. Care to give us a full details on why YOU think you're still alive?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 5, 2007 23:50:59 GMT -5
NETA: Hell, didn't the Ramiro incident teach us anything? Or the death of the Reaver? Names are utterly twisted in this town, and mean nothing. To quote a certain line which i HATE so much: "And of course, that's exactly what a scum would say too." Names don't mean anything, but just because you have a crappy name does NOT automatically mean you're town either. You could just be the scum with the crappy name. It's WIFOM, and it's one that basically either side would have a hard time with. You can say names mean nothing, but River, the bounty hunter, her Dr. Nesta and the Operatives have been linked. As have Inara and Malcom. So have the brothers for the Mason group. As much as you want to say "names mean nothing!" They do mean SOMETHING of value. There have been connections with the names, so to just say that names are irrelevant is simply untrue. Of course, we've seen examples where names didn't make sense either, but it's not simply "all names should be thrown out", it's more like the names give an indication of SOMETHING, just the connection is hard to find, until we know the full role. Top Dog... gives NO connections, no ties, except to the fact that EveryScumGroup Uses TopDog apparently. So all it's connected to is "Scum". that's why the suspicion is there based on name. I consider it a good clue, but if its the only clue, it's not the one to go after then. The name can help us only, but to say "why would I make up a name like Top Dog... I must be townie with an unfortunate name!" well that's just inviting WIFOM to be drank. I don't think you're the play though based on your ACTIONS. But your name does invite suspicion, and you should understand at least why, due to the course of the game. Yes, unknown names with no connections- the ramiros, and the other randoms, okay... we learned our lessons there. But your name is NOT random. It's quite intentional, and thus we must wonder... what about you gave you the name Top Dog? It was a question i asked you, that you didn't answer Zeriel: "Do you have ANY flavor in your PM besides the fact that you're Top Dog? IE: HOW Do you fit into the world of FF? WHY are you here?"
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 5, 2007 23:54:00 GMT -5
*edit* I meant Hand of blue, not operative, but still*
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 6, 2007 0:24:16 GMT -5
Man, I just hope I'm not the one that's going to be in Cookies position in M5 (if it comes down to that). I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Heh. Again, like I said in my last few posts, I think a recruit is very possible. Who it would be, I have no idea, but as I outlined before, I named the two I think would be the most benificial for it to be. But really, it could be any one of ya's. I think my trust (even small, slight trust) is wiped clean right now. Hahaha. MadDot and Roosh...well, two people I think would be the most likely to have been recruited. Cat...nuff said. zeriel, cripes man...who knows? I'm like Hockey. I have no doubt the name of the role is really Top Dog. I can see NAF doing something like that. But who knows if it's a scum one or not? Even those who seem to be confirmed like Hockey...remember what I said earlier? About Cookies choosing Hockey so she might be able to have another person to tell us she checked out? Well maybe she had Hockey be it cause she knew Hockey was on the same team as her. Hal? I don't want to touch Hal with a ten foot pole. Seems like everyone and their uncle is trying to find Hal. This whole thing just seems to be centered around his charcter. Should be called Halfly. Maybe sinjin was the one recruited early on. I disagee with Dot that is has to be either both are lying or both telling the truth. One could be telling the truth and the other lying. Roosh could have been recruited and been able to keep his investigtion powers. Pleo, if recruited in M5, would have kept his. Who knows? Or maybe Sintea was the one recruited. MHaye having 50 percent protection is weird. Yet another that could have been recruited early on since WTF claimed about back on Day Three. You're all suspicious to me! Although some more suspicious than others. Anyway, my suspicions remain the same. Biggest is CIAS...and right behind him is Mad the Dot with WTH being close behind and then everyone else in one big fourth place tie.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 6, 2007 0:47:06 GMT -5
About Cookies choosing Hockey so she might be able to have another person to tell us she checked out? Well maybe she had Hockey be it cause she knew Hockey was on the same team as her. A valid point, IF you don't believe I am a cop. However, I did investigate her, and she IS a plain Alliance Crew member. Nesta is the most likely to NOT be recruited, then Hockey, all after Me. Based on what I know so far of the roles (obv. i'd know if I was recruited). The rest of you could be suspects, hell even you then Idle, for all we know you coulda been mod confirmed for a day, and then nothing... So for that reason, i think this WIFOM is utterly futile for now. I want to find the last scum. And since I want my vote out there: Vote CatinASuit for having the scummiest Actions I felt early on, and the closest associations to scum by voting patterns as previously listed. WtH: Convince me to not change it by tomm. to you. Cat: Convince me otherwise.
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 6, 2007 0:48:01 GMT -5
Zeriel, who should I investigate tonight? Since I don't want you to feel left out of the questions.
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