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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 15:37:41 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jan 19, 2012 15:37:41 GMT -5
A beautiful new Day Dawns, marred by the lonely corpse of JustBeingGinger.
It is now Day Two. The latest it can end is Tue Jan 24 at 12 noon PT.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 15:59:39 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 19, 2012 15:59:39 GMT -5
So, JustBeingGinger claimed overNight to be a Freemason. peeker, you never directly responded to that. Do you have anything to say about it now? I can confirm that Ed is not a mason. And is this another Freemason claim?
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 16:06:41 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jan 19, 2012 16:06:41 GMT -5
Farewell JustBeingGinger, at least you have Mahaloth to keep you company. One death, better than I expected. I've reread all of mahaloth's posts in this game, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. So I thought I'd look at who voted for mahaloth, and why, and the following posts popped out at me: guiri had never mentioned anything about being suspicious of mahaloth before this post. He never mentioned mahaloth after this post until this morning when he said " I also support the Mahaloth lynch - gut reaction to his response to my poke." You're right, I was unvoting Idle immediately after the claim and voted Mahaloth without stating any reason. I rectified later when called out about my votes, but you have a point. I thought my earlier interaction with Mahaloth left it sufficiently clear that he seemed scummy to me but I can see that I wasn't very explicit there either. - Hoopy for voting players for things that make no sense to him, his post about Cabal So what is your opinion of how Town should treat cabal? You have issues with my opinion on it, but I don't recall you stating one of your own. It was your initial post that caught my attention, you seemed to be attempting to set the cabal is a favourable light, as if you were proposing a temporary coalition, Cabal is Town's enemy so it seemed odd. - Pollux for the weak PIS accusation It wasn't an accusation, it was a question. I didn't yell out "HEY, IDLE LOOKS LIKE HE HAS PIS!" Yes, I pointed out his wording was questionable, but I asked him to explain. Furthermore, I didn't vote for him right away. I don't like voting immediately on slips because often times they turn out to be not slips at all. Sometimes, yes, most of the time no. Behavior after a "slip" is what to watch for. But the chances that Idle would get a similar secret power to the one he had last game seem slim to me, personally. That didn't mean I also didn't want clarification as to what he said. Who knows, maybe a simple question would cause him to break down, pull all his hair out, and tell everyone he's a necromancer. It was a weak accusation, you suspected he made a slip, asked him about it, but never followed it up with a vote. I'm not sure why scum are more inclined to point out PIS slips but Drain's theory seems to have some basis so you're on my radar.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 16:36:42 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 19, 2012 16:36:42 GMT -5
I apologise for my vote not counting Yesterday. It took longer than I hoped to get home. Sometime Today I'll finish the review of Mahaloth's voters.
Take Septimus's claim with a grain of salt; remember that his powers can be spoofed, even if he's honest. The claim itself is difficult to sustain - as more and more people die, the chance of a mistake rises. So, Septimus - what was JBG?
It's probably futile Today to do much speculation on why only one Death. There are several plausible scenarios, but we don't have enough evidence yet to work out what happened. (Don't rule out the Vampire(s) forgetting to send in kill orders - it happened in C2 at least once.)
I need to assimilate all the claims and set up a list of the Quick and the Dead. Not that we know much about the Dead right now, but it'll keep my thinking straight later on.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 16:37:18 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 19, 2012 16:37:18 GMT -5
... and I forgot to bookmark the thread.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 17:16:40 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 19, 2012 17:16:40 GMT -5
It was your initial post that caught my attention, you seemed to be attempting to set the cabal is a favourable light, as if you were proposing a temporary coalition, Cabal is Town's enemy so it seemed odd. I wasn't putting them in a favorable light, I was stating the cabal/town relationship as is. Town and Cabal require these same things to win: 1) All undead must be totally dead (as opposed to mostly dead) 2) All wolves must be dead. After that, the win conditions diverge. If town has two or more witches alive, town wins. If town has no more than one witch left, cabal wins. Cabal is powerless to do anything to the witches. Hence, except for the witches, town and cabal have the same death goals. Lynching cabal doesn't help town a whole lot when they have ample witches, because they help the wolves and undead outnumber the rest of the game that way. And even dead cabal aren't out of the game. They can still communicate with the other cabal. And it only takes one cabal alive for the cabal block. So by killing cabal, town doesn't really further their win condition much as long as they have the witches. In the early game, town is best served trying to take out the undead and wolves, since they are the more immediate threat. A lynch of cabal is better than a lynch of town, but a lynch of a wolf or undead is better yet. (Though, the lynch of a vampire helps the wolves, since they can't kill them and will likely die themselves if they target one.) And cabal lynches usually don't leave much of a voting record anyway. Cabal don't need to try to save one of their own, since their numbers don't mean anything. They only need one alive to win regardless of how many non-witch town remain. So better to let one of their own die (who can still communicate with them 24/7), then risk exposure of the rest. No faction in conspiracy will win the game without assistant from at least one of the other factions, particularly town. It's where the game gets its name. After all, when two witches are dead, town needs to rely on wolves and undead to help take down the cabal, because if all the undead and wolves die before the cabal are dead, then the game win goes to cabal. So town will have to leave killers alive, who might prey on town, just to take down cabal. It's a balance, and the strategy is constantly in flux. That was my point. Someone posted something about how cabalists want town powers to go down, and I told them why I disagree with them on that. The only lynchable powers cabal fears are seer and vigilante. Everyone else is irrelevant to them. Wolves and undead fear pretty much everybody, because the rest of the powers screw with the kills. Do you disagree with this? And speaking of wolves, why are the masons all outing themselves? You do realize that claiming mason puts a big "wolves kill me" sign on you? At this point, why would wolves risk killing into an unknown pool where who knows how many vampires are hiding out, when they can rip the throat out of a juicy safe townie.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 17:59:18 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 19, 2012 17:59:18 GMT -5
Having seen both sides of the Witch / Cabal question (I was a Witch in C2 and a Cabalist in C3) I have spent a fair amount of time thinking about the way the Town and Cabal wincons interact. I'd say that Hoopy's analysis is pretty accurate. I remember in C3 we rejoiced greatly when we learned Witch 1 died - we then burned our secret powers to kill another. (I believe NAF redirected Nanook-the-Vig onto one and I redirected Vampire Kat onto the other - both players were outed by N4, although I can't remember how without looking it up.)
One of the things about Conspiracy games is that you need to think carefully about lynch priorities. For one thing, there are more anti-Town players than lynches available to eliminate them all. Town need crosskills to eliminate some of our enemies before we all die.
Drain Bead probably has bad memories of C2, in which she claimed Freemason - and got caught out by the realFreemasons. Every Day started in a very similar way. "Can we afford to lynch Drain Bead today? No, we think there may be a Cabalist in the pool of remaining unknown players." (There was.) But, if she actually said anything, we'd pay little attention because we knew she was a Wolf. I believe she got quite frustrated.
At this point, the Cabal are not a threat to Town. We should be looking to lynch Vampires and Wolves. The former is a bit of a two-edged sword, as one of the worries for Wolves is whether they are attacking a Vampire. (I carried out the first Wolf kill in a Conspiracy game, and I know I was worried about it.) However, each dead Vampire is one less attempted Nightkill, and therefore gives the Town more time to hunt their foes.
Only when the Witches are down to one do Town need to worry about the Cabal. Undead and Wolves never need to worry about the Cabal - they're just lumped among NotUs for both factions.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 18:01:51 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jan 19, 2012 18:01:51 GMT -5
It was your initial post that caught my attention, you seemed to be attempting to set the cabal is a favourable light, as if you were proposing a temporary coalition, Cabal is Town's enemy so it seemed odd. I wasn't putting them in a favorable light, I was stating the cabal/town relationship as is. I understand and I'm not disagreeing with what you say but, while your post was factual, it read to me like you were implying that Town should not be concerned with Cabal and should even consider working with them. In the last game the Cabal's secret power was to imitate any role in the setup, it's perfectly conceivable that you, as Cabal, were hoping to lure Town into a false sense of security and then could use a secret power to kill off a witch and win the game.
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Post by Drain Bead on Jan 19, 2012 18:20:02 GMT -5
You sure that was me? I thought I was an actual Freemason in C2. I remember being a ble to get confirmation of every person who my target had found, too. I also died almost immediately. Maybe that wasn't C2. I seem to have completely blocked this Wolf experience from my memory. It sounds traumatic.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 18:57:42 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 19, 2012 18:57:42 GMT -5
Yes, I'm sure.A quick check of the historical links Pleo provided (see the end of the Rules post) shows that you're recalling C1, where you had that secret power.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 19:11:19 GMT -5
Post by septimus on Jan 19, 2012 19:11:19 GMT -5
You frighten me, Septimus. And you remind me that I have to finish a sestina tonight. Sigh. For obvious reasons I prefer to call these septinas, albeit the 7th stanza is a runt stanza. 1. I shall appeal for help to you, O Town For how to best help you in turn, as Coroner. But this Dawn Pleonast made slightest reply: I am denied to know the alignment of Ginger. Some (dastardly?) "profaning" of Ginger's corpse Conceals her identity from Town (and Scum and Cabal). 2. (Now, hypothetically, if Ginger had been Cabal, Is't clearly best to reveal this to Town?) Odds are toNight will bring another corpse And then I may prove I'm Coroner. But if you ask the alignment of Ginger Blame Pleo for the vagueness of his reply. 3. In future I plan to show side, but not role, by reply At least till I'm dead (even if victim is Cabal). Is that perhaps best, for corpses after Ginger? I want to play well enough for you, Town. And win with you, as Town's appointed Coroner. But can report only "profaning" of JustBeing's corpse. 4. But let's please do rejoice 'twas but a single corpse. (Vampire and wolf collided if I had to guess, as reply. But I'm lousy as guesser -- and lousy as Coroner? -- And lousy as poet with that silly word, Cabal.) And are Townies now doubtful about whether I'm Town, Just because I can not identify Ginger? 5. Join in rites for allegedly Freemason Ginger. And swear revenge on her defiled corpse. So say us all, faithful Town ! (And "Revenge!" agrees lying Scum in reply.) (Please don't hunt herein for hints about Cabal, He just needed rhyme, this runt-poet Coroner.) 6. And what will become of this hapless Coroner? Will I follow the sad doom of Ginger? Outfoxed by Wolves or Undead (or even by Cabal)? Will we all someday turn into corpse? I hope this is not my final reply. Let's Lynch some Scum! Win! Victorious Town! 7. About our corpse, you await my Reply. I hope this is not my final reply. I'm aligned with Town, and so might be Ginger. And don't call me Cabal; I am the Town Coroner.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 19:42:55 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 19, 2012 19:42:55 GMT -5
And are Townies now doubtful about whether I'm Town, Just because I can not identify Ginger? There's no reason to be. One of the factions might have a secret power that blocks investigations into deaths. If it becomes a regular thing, then we can readdress the issue, but just because you can't identify one corpse really indicates nothing at this point. Besides, I really can't see anyone false claiming coroner at this point. It's a hard role to fake, and unforcedly claiming it Night one means if it is a fake claim, someone's no doubt using a secret power to fake it. Which will likely become apparent in good time. Unlikely. All factions at this point can benefit from your information. But obviously, if you're being truthful, someone interfered. I can't really see why it would be an active choice, since freemason is confirmable role. So there's no real strategic benefit based on the information we have, which is why I think it's a passive secret power that someone can stop your investigations (or maybe an active power that never reveals the role results at all and they decided to use it). Once again, I guess time will tell. So to sum up, no reason to not believe you at this point, and no reason to think you're particularly in danger of death either.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 21:39:21 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 19, 2012 21:39:21 GMT -5
I'm not going to reveal who the Witches protected for obvious reasons (but just in case those reasons aren't obvious: don't want to give scum teams any guess on how we're doing it)...but the results of the investigating is: Guiri is Town. So unless I'm missing something, that means Guiri is either really Town or the Alpha Wolf? Unless the Cabal have a secret power they can do that gives Town reads.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 21:45:32 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 19, 2012 21:45:32 GMT -5
I'm going to VOTE HOOPY FROOD for the extremely weak reasoning (IMO) he gave for voting for me yesterDay. I would have voted for him yesterDay as well if I hadn't voted for Mahaloth in order to try to save myself from a lynch.
I also think that there is a good chance that there were some wolves on my bandwagon yestereday, because Mahaloth and I were pretty much neck and neck, tied to almost the very end (before I claimed). Nanook even UNVOTED Mahaloth to tie it back up after Maha was in the lead, so I consider Nanook to be high on my list of suspects as well.
So if we're to believe Septimus and Mahaloth is a Wolf, I'd look to those who voted for me yesterDay. I'm willing to bet at least one Wolf tried to save their Wolf buddy (Maha)
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 21:47:10 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 19, 2012 21:47:10 GMT -5
NETA: I'd look to those who were voting for me yesterDay BEFORE I claimed.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 21:51:01 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 19, 2012 21:51:01 GMT -5
So, JustBeingGinger claimed overNight to be a Freemason. peeker, you never directly responded to that. Do you have anything to say about it now? I can confirm that Ed is not a mason. And is this another Freemason claim? the only thing i feel safe to offer at this point is that if she was a mason i was unaware. and how she could be confident that i am a mason is kind of perplexing as well. the only other observation i would make is that if she was in fact a mason, then fuck.
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 21:51:50 GMT -5
Post by special on Jan 19, 2012 21:51:50 GMT -5
NETA: I'd look to those who were voting for me yesterDay BEFORE I claimed. Did anyone vote you after you claimed? I can get down with your thought Vote: Hoopy Frood Mr Special Ed - I'm not going to vote for myself Vote: CatInASuit Vote: Nanook septimus - likely coroner Silver Jan - Mason? guiri - Town according to Idle
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Day Two
Jan 19, 2012 22:40:23 GMT -5
Post by septimus on Jan 19, 2012 22:40:23 GMT -5
texcat was a Lynch contender yesterDay, yet drew no votes from anyone who didn't vote mahaloth. Mightn't Wolves have voted texcat if he weren't one of them?
Vote: texcat [/color]
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 0:04:10 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 20, 2012 0:04:10 GMT -5
Did anyone vote you after you claimed? I don't think so.
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 2:18:35 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jan 20, 2012 2:18:35 GMT -5
"24. mahaloth - Lynched Day One - Zombified Night One" Mahaloth has been zombified? Surely a vicar would have had nothing else to do yesterDay but bless Mahaloth? What am I missing? I'm not going to reveal who the Witches protected for obvious reasons (but just in case those reasons aren't obvious: don't want to give scum teams any guess on how we're doing it)...but the results of the investigating is: Guiri is Town. So unless I'm missing something, that means Guiri is either really Town or the Alpha Wolf? Unless the Cabal have a secret power they can do that gives Town reads. Don't you mean omega wolf? Are you sure you're a witch? Did you suspect I was non-Town, more than anyone else? Really? Cause there's no way you're trying to build up a pool of confirmed townies if you share results so soon and my shelf-life has shortened drastically in recent games so it's unlikely I'll be around towards endgame...
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 3:48:58 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jan 20, 2012 3:48:58 GMT -5
Hmm, Day 2 and already plenty of interesting things to talk about.
Vote: 01. Mr Special Ed [/color] Vote: 02. Hoopy Frood [/color] Vote: 03. BillMc [/color] Vote: 04. colby11 [/color] Vote: 05. texcat [/color] Vote: 06. Nanook [/color] Vote: 07. Silver Jan [/color] Vote: 08. Drain Bead [/color] Vote: 09. hirkatbawa [/color] Vote: 10. gnarlycharlie [/color] Vote: 11. peekercpa [/color] Vote: 12. Pollux Oil [/color] Vote: 13. Inner Stickler [/color] Vote: 14. Sister Coyote [/color] Vote: 16. Suburban Plankton [/color] Vote: 17. septimus [/color] Vote: 18. scathach [/color] Vote: 19. Boozahol Squid [/color] Vote: 21. Merestil Haye [/color] Vote: 22. guiri [/color] Vote: 23. Idle Thoughts [/color] Vote: 25. deon [/color]
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 4:16:39 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jan 20, 2012 4:16:39 GMT -5
Idle Thoughts: claimed witch. I'm not going to reveal who the Witches protected for obvious reasons (but just in case those reasons aren't obvious: don't want to give scum teams any guess on how we're doing it)...but the results of the investigating is: Guiri is Town. So unless I'm missing something, that means Guiri is either really Town or the Alpha Wolf? Unless the Cabal have a secret power they can do that gives Town reads. This irks me. If he was a town player, there is no reason to mention this, unless Guiri was about to be lynched. Saying it up front is tantamount to asking someone to NK him. At this point I would not be surprised if Idle was Cabal again. His protestations and play do not strike me as townie The good news is that at this point we can wait for confirmation. Until then, I'm treating everything Idle says as WIFOM. Unvote: Idle Thoughts Septimus: claimed Coroner Yes again another role that is self confirming, so at this point Unvote: Septimus At this point, if he is a Coroner and telling the truth, it means someone activated a Secret Power last Night If he is not, then it is likely septimus is a Wolf, able to identify mahaloth, but unable or unwilling to guess at JBG's side or role. At the very least he should be able to identify toDay's lynch victim. peekercpa: claimed Freemason From the rules: If the target is a Freemason, both of you will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect.Now, overnight, JBG claimed that Peekercpa was a mason, but peekercpa has responded with the only thing i feel safe to offer at this point is that if she was a mason i was unaware. and how she could be confident that i am a mason is kind of perplexing as well. the only other observation i would make is that if she was in fact a mason, then fuck. Now, this means that one of you is lying. If you were both masons, you would have had this confirmed to each other. If she is revealed as a freemason, then you will be cleared by Dawn: Day 4, if she is not a freemason, then her actions will appear to be more an attempt to give you a decent cover as an Omega wolf. Thinking about it, by the end of today, you should be able to tell us exactly how many freemasons there are, as if any do exist, they should be handshaking with you today. For the moment: Unvote: peekercpa
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 4:22:17 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jan 20, 2012 4:22:17 GMT -5
"24. mahaloth - Lynched Day One - Zombified Night One" Mahaloth has been zombified? Surely a vicar would have had nothing else to do yesterDay but bless Mahaloth? What am I missing? A vicar. ;D Although I am very surprised that it was not mentioned in the Start of Day 2 piece.
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 6:54:46 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jan 20, 2012 6:54:46 GMT -5
peekercpa: claimed Freemason From the rules: If the target is a Freemason, both of you will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect.Now, overnight, JBG claimed that Peekercpa was a mason, but peekercpa has responded with the only thing i feel safe to offer at this point is that if she was a mason i was unaware. and how she could be confident that i am a mason is kind of perplexing as well. the only other observation i would make is that if she was in fact a mason, then fuck. Now, this means that one of you is lying. If you were both masons, you would have had this confirmed to each other. If she is revealed as a freemason, then you will be cleared by Dawn: Day 4, if she is not a freemason, then her actions will appear to be more an attempt to give you a decent cover as an Omega wolf. Thinking about it, by the end of today, you should be able to tell us exactly how many freemasons there are, as if any do exist, they should be handshaking with you today. For the moment: Unvote: peekercpa [/color] [/quote] Actually, the Freemasons have to ask the mod if a certain person is a fellow Feemason, they don't know each other until the Mod lets them know officially. So by my take on things, neither of them are lying, they just hadn't confirmed each other yet.
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 6:55:36 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jan 20, 2012 6:55:36 GMT -5
Duuuuhhhh!!.
Having re-read Night 1 again.
Peekercpa claimed a handshake with Special Ed. Silver Jan claimed a handshake with Special Ed. JBG claimed a handshake with Septimus.
Duh, I thought JBG was confirming peekercpa, as in claimed handshake. So actually, nothing about JBG's status is going to affect peekercpa.
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 6:58:01 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jan 20, 2012 6:58:01 GMT -5
on that note Unvote: Silver Jan
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 7:10:34 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Jan 20, 2012 7:10:34 GMT -5
I am going to be away for the next two RL days, at least. My husband's grandmother passed away and we have to go out of town for the funeral. I'll have my phone, but other than the car trips I won't really have much of a chance to use it.
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 7:21:41 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Jan 20, 2012 7:21:41 GMT -5
Well now. Can you spoil me, please?
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 10:33:57 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 20, 2012 10:33:57 GMT -5
Duuuuhhhh!!. Having re-read Night 1 again. Peekercpa claimed a handshake with Special Ed. Silver Jan claimed a handshake with Special Ed. JBG claimed a handshake with Septimus. Duh, I thought JBG was confirming peekercpa, as in claimed handshake. So actually, nothing about JBG's status is going to affect peekercpa. Gah! I made the same mistake last Night. I also read JBG's post as saying he had 'investigated' peeker . I was waiting for peeker's confirmation of JBG (hence my earlier post this Morning), so I was very confused when peeker claimed no knowledge. It all makes a lot more sense now. Regarding the Vicar's failure to bless mahaloth: - He failed to get his action in before Dusk
- He was blocked by the Cabal
- He was blocked by some Secret Power
- He doesn't exist
I include the last option purely for completeness sake, as I think the Vicar is an essential role in this game. If he didn't fully understand his role, it's possible he might not have realized it's a Day action, or that he could bless the 'soon-to-be-lynched' rather than having to wait for someone to be killed. If that's not the case, then it's quite possible that the Cabal knows the identity of the Vicar, though I don't think that should be a big problem, since they dislike Zombies as much as the rest of us. If a Secret Power blocked the Vicar, then that may or may not be trouble, depending on who has it.
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Day Two
Jan 20, 2012 10:42:49 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Jan 20, 2012 10:42:49 GMT -5
Oh, something important for everyone to keep in mind. We need 12 people to be able to lynch someone.In terms of game setup, I'm waiting for the game where there are no Detectives, Witches or Vicars in the Town side.... ...and I'm hoping to be on the sideline when it's played.
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