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Post by LightFoot on Sept 18, 2012 22:29:00 GMT -5
Interesting Meeko So do you know something that the rest of us don't? How would you know what scum knows or doesn't know about Pleo? Vote: MeekoI guess I'll hold off on my pleo vote, this looks scummier. Pointing out PIS where there is none, is so often a scum tell that we should put it up on signs. Vote: dizzymrslizzy ~~~ bleached~~ That was my knee jerk ( D1 is usually a crap shoot) I'm curious to see what the player has else to say before voting though
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Sept 18, 2012 23:34:54 GMT -5
Well the random unprovoked claims are odd to say the least. Don't forget the Riddler is one of our possible roles. ( The Riddler had an anti-claim mechanic; their wincon was to get everyone's Role).
As for Pleo's claim:. If I'm not mistaken, he can potentially meet the (real or fake) wincon in three days. Which is exactly how much time he wants from us to be 'confirmed'. I'm still reluctant to vote for him but I'm getting closer to marking it down. At the very least I don't think I want to see what happens if he makes it to Day 3.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 18, 2012 23:44:17 GMT -5
So the first and second votes are now considered bandwagonning? But Meeko's, whom you chose to ignore is fine? I'm sorry but I've hated Pleo's bullshit post my role first methodology in every game I've played with him. And the more wine I drink the more I hate it. This game he didn't even wait for Day 1 to post his supposed PM which made no sense! And then almost immediately toDay he decided unilaterally to investigate himself for the next 3 Nights. How exactly does this help town? Meeko's vote is not fine but I've given up trying to understand how he plays mafia. Yes, bandwagonism. There were several people in the night thread who made pre-vote remarks, and your post looks like it was trying to capitalize on that momentum. So don't play when Pleo's playing anymore. I don't think it helps town particularly but no one has yet convinced me that it would be better to lynch him. Right now, I'm at letting him live will be equal to or better than lynching him in terms of damage to town' wincon. I do wish he'd participate a little. I don't see his sitting out to be within the spirit of the role and would like a way to goad him into playing more.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Sept 18, 2012 23:57:44 GMT -5
So the first and second votes are now considered bandwagonning? But Meeko's, whom you chose to ignore is fine? I'm sorry but I've hated Pleo's bullshit post my role first methodology in every game I've played with him. And the more wine I drink the more I hate it. This game he didn't even wait for Day 1 to post his supposed PM which made no sense! And then almost immediately toDay he decided unilaterally to investigate himself for the next 3 Nights. How exactly does this help town? Meeko's vote is not fine but I've given up trying to understand how he plays mafia. Yes, bandwagonism. There were several people in the night thread who made pre-vote remarks, and your post looks like it was trying to capitalize on that momentum. So don't play when Pleo's playing anymore. I don't think it helps town particularly but no one has yet convinced me that it would be better to lynch him. Right now, I'm at letting him live will be equal to or better than lynching him in terms of damage to town' wincon. I do wish he'd participate a little. I don't see his sitting out to be within the spirit of the role and would like a way to goad him into playing more. i believe he is intentionally lurking so he can target himself.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 19, 2012 0:07:50 GMT -5
LIGHTFOOTWhy are we rehashing Marathon so much? Pleonast IS FORCING town players to drink wine, apparently every single game he plays. He MIGHT be forcing scum to drink wine every single game. The notion that a Town player, and a Scum player approach Pleonast's Bar with the same thirst is ludicrous. Scum know what Pleo is, and is not.Town do not have this advantage. Hence Town will thirst more for his wine. And that is the only crack at that I will take. If you want me elaborate, the thread to Marathon is over there. Snipped much? My comments are literally bookended by the phrase MARATHON. You thus took the line (I added the bold) out of context. Speaking of context, the actual context here compares Pleonast's claim in this game to my comments in MARATHON. 1. You took my comments out of context. 2. You snipped and didn't say you snipped. 3. You are voting me based on my review of a previous game. S M U D G E UNVOTE PLEONAST VOTE LIGHTFOOT VOTE DIZZYMRSLIZZYIn most games, scum know other scum, and therefore they know whos is not scum. Do you know why this would NOT be the case, Dizzy?
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2012 0:14:00 GMT -5
I do wish he'd participate a little. I don't see his sitting out to be within the spirit of the role and would like a way to goad him into playing more. i believe he is intentionally lurking so he can target himself. This is the part that's starting to bug me, actually. If we get to Day Four and he's not confirmed for whatever reason, there's going to be a shitstorm, with half the players wanting to string him up and another contingent with other priorities, and if he follows through with this idea that he won't post then we'll have nothing to evaluate him by. I'm starting to come down on the side of lynching him now. If he's telling the truth, he death doesn't hurt Town in the slightest, if he's lying that's a bonus, and if we're going to lynch him, now would be the time. Odds are, if we don't lynch Pleo Today we lynch a Towny. I'd rather hunt scum, but this is the boat Pleo has put us in. The benefit to Town of letting him live (assuming his claim is truthful) is really so small as to be not a benefit at all, the drawbacks of letting him live (again assuming truthfulness) I'm starting to feel are significant, and of course there's huge drawbacks to letting him live if he's lying. I'm doing a 180 on this. Vote Pleonast
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 19, 2012 0:37:48 GMT -5
UNVOTE LIGHTFOOT
In hindsight, I can't justify a vote on you and dizzy for essentially the same reason, when you have not actually voted for me.
VOTE PLEONAST
Just the notion that you lurking on purpose gets to me about as fast as your play style.
Or is that a lack of play style.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 19, 2012 0:41:02 GMT -5
So the first and second votes are now considered bandwagonning? But Meeko's, whom you chose to ignore is fine? I'm sorry but I've hated Pleo's bullshit post my role first methodology in every game I've played with him. And the more wine I drink the more I hate it. This game he didn't even wait for Day 1 to post his supposed PM which made no sense! And then almost immediately toDay he decided unilaterally to investigate himself for the next 3 Nights. How exactly does this help town? Meeko's vote is not fine but I've given up trying to understand how he plays mafia. Yes, bandwagonism. There were several people in the night thread who made pre-vote remarks, and your post looks like it was trying to capitalize on that momentum. So don't play when Pleo's playing anymore. I don't think it helps town particularly but no one has yet convinced me that it would be better to lynch him. Right now, I'm at letting him live will be equal to or better than lynching him in terms of damage to town' wincon. I do wish he'd participate a little. I don't see his sitting out to be within the spirit of the role and would like a way to goad him into playing more. Wait. You are more forgiving to Pleonast than me? Run this by me again? I'll use lube next time, I promise. Not sure how to reposnd to you. You say you don't get me, but offer nothing to fix it.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 19, 2012 0:42:45 GMT -5
I know he's intentionally lurking to target himself. It's stupid and pointless, because he would prove himself and someone else if he targeted someone else. I know he can't guarantee that someone else will be in the lowest 20 percent but that's a risk I'm willing to take.
Kid, it does hurt town to lynch pleo if he's nonhostile because it counts as a mislynch. Town has just as many scum they need to lynch on Day 2 as on Day 1. Scum get a NK in between and their odds of hitting town are pretty good. By standing still, we fall behind. Granted, lynching a townie and losing a townie in the night would suck more but I would rather people vote Pleo if they think he's scum and looking for real scummy players if they think he's nonhostile.
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 19, 2012 1:15:42 GMT -5
LIGHTFOOTWhy are we rehashing Marathon so much? Pleonast IS FORCING town players to drink wine, apparently every single game he plays. He MIGHT be forcing scum to drink wine every single game. The notion that a Town player, and a Scum player approach Pleonast's Bar with the same thirst is ludicrous. Scum know what Pleo is, and is not.Town do not have this advantage. Hence Town will thirst more for his wine. And that is the only crack at that I will take. If you want me elaborate, the thread to Marathon is over there. Snipped much? My comments are literally bookended by the phrase MARATHON. You thus took the line (I added the bold) out of context. Speaking of context, the actual context here compares Pleonast's claim in this game to my comments in MARATHON. 1. You took my comments out of context. 2. You snipped and didn't say you snipped. 3. You are voting me based on my review of a previous game. S M U D G E UNVOTE PLEONAST VOTE LIGHTFOOT VOTE DIZZYMRSLIZZYIn most games, scum know other scum, and therefore they know whos is not scum. Do you know why this would NOT be the case, Dizzy? You capped and bolded my name before you made comments that had nothing to do with me? can you assist me in understanding what your quote had to do with yelling at ME?
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 19, 2012 1:20:37 GMT -5
In most games, scum know other scum, and therefore they know whos is not scum. This sparked a memory. Back some time ago, Pollux (he who mods this game) created a full-on Gastard game. One of the mechanics he created was two separate Mafia teams who didn't know each other. I wouldn't put it past him to reuse that mechanic, especially since the game ran into difficulties and I don't think it played out the way Pollux intended 1 (in retrospect it should have been put down, I think). Mister Blockey (the consultant Mod) once created a game in which the third parties were a separate team to the Mafia; albeit a team that didn't know they were working together. (That's the full-sized Halloween party game.) Both Arkham games, and Ragnarok, featured Mafiates unknown to the main Mafia team at start. In Arkham Revisited I don't recall a way for the hidden player to join the rest; in the others there was such a way. There's plenty of precedent for the Mafia not to know all the Mafia. 1Pollux had a problem. Although someone else tried to run it with the information from PMs, I suspect there was some info not known to the players, the absence of which damaged the fun of the game, at least for me.)
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2012 1:24:20 GMT -5
I know he's intentionally lurking to target himself. It's stupid and pointless, because he would prove himself and someone else if he targeted someone else. I know he can't guarantee that someone else will be in the lowest 20 percent but that's a risk I'm willing to take. Kid, it does hurt town to lynch pleo if he's nonhostile because it counts as a mislynch. Town has just as many scum they need to lynch on Day 2 as on Day 1. Scum get a NK in between and their odds of hitting town are pretty good. By standing still, we fall behind. Granted, lynching a townie and losing a townie in the night would suck more but I would rather people vote Pleo if they think he's scum and looking for real scummy players if they think he's nonhostile. If he targets somebody else, though, he doesn't confirm his own wincon to us. He proves his power, but not his designation. His entire gambit at this point is keyed on the idea that he'll prove that he's non-hostile. But by the time he does that, he's largely useless to Town and we've no guarantee that he'll pull for Town anyway. And I hear you that lynching a nonhostile isn't ideal, and I wouldn't recommend that play if we knew he was nonhostile. But we don't, and by the time we're supposed to we could be well behind and unable to afford to lynch him even if we want to. My gut says wait him out, but after thinking on it I don't believe that's the optimal play - the risk/reward ratio isn't there. Based on what he's given us and what he's likely to give in the future, I think the best play is to lynch him and move on.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 19, 2012 1:28:10 GMT -5
You capped and bolded my name before you made comments that had nothing to do with me? can you assist me in understanding what your quote had to do with yelling at ME? Nope. The comments were about you. You snipped and smudged me. why? what other bits are there? Scum know if pleonast is scum or not. This was my arguement in marathon mafia. I was bringing it up, because a scum or town detective, would be hard to discern between. Thus it is hard to confirm a dick in a normal game. I would assume it would be at least as hard in this game, a gastard game. If we don't talk about pleonast today won't that conversation hog time needed for other discussions later? That is what else should we cover on day 1? Day 2 and after will have more information via mod reveal right? So I think we should tackle pleo for better or worse now not later Sorry if I am more scattered than usual on my iPod touch, at work durring break. yes Scum would know if Pleo is Scum or not But they would not know what other carps he had up his sleeve You typed an absolute = and now you are fixing it- Myself I think Scum Would know that so your origional comment is not vote worthy but it deserves notice
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 19, 2012 1:34:24 GMT -5
In most games, scum know other scum, and therefore they know whos is not scum. This sparked a memory. Back some time ago, Pollux (he who mods this game) created a full-on Gastard game. One of the mechanics he created was two separate Mafia teams who didn't know each other. I wouldn't put it past him to reuse that mechanic, especially since the game ran into difficulties and I don't think it played out the way Pollux intended 1 (in retrospect it should have been put down, I think). Mister Blockey (the consultant Mod) once created a game in which the third parties were a separate team to the Mafia; albeit a team that didn't know they were working together. (That's the full-sized Halloween party game.) Both Arkham games, and Ragnarok, featured Mafiates unknown to the main Mafia team at start. In Arkham Revisited I don't recall a way for the hidden player to join the rest; in the others there was such a way. There's plenty of precedent for the Mafia not to know all the Mafia. 1Pollux had a problem. Although someone else tried to run it with the information from PMs, I suspect there was some info not known to the players, the absence of which damaged the fun of the game, at least for me.) Wasn't there also a game where there was no scum?
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 19, 2012 1:36:07 GMT -5
You capped and bolded my name before you made comments that had nothing to do with me? can you assist me in understanding what your quote had to do with yelling at ME? Nope. The comments were about you. You snipped and smudged me. why? yes Scum would know if Pleo is Scum or not But they would not know what other carps he had up his sleeve You typed an absolute = and now you are fixing it- Myself I think Scum Would know that so your origional comment is not vote worthy but it deserves notice [/quote] I quoted a quote that cookies snipped and quoted-commented with what I thought was humour and attempted to clarify- enjoy the ride I'm going to bed and teh quote tags have lost their minds
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 19, 2012 1:39:16 GMT -5
I know he's intentionally lurking to target himself. How do you know this?
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2012 2:16:10 GMT -5
I know he's intentionally lurking to target himself. How do you know this? Dude, slow the hell down., and stop nitpicking people. It's no wonder players are admitting to ignoring you if you always play like this. Pleo's stated intention is to lurk so that he can target himself with his investigations. That's how Inner knows that. And don't you dare go off on some frantic tangent about how Inner has PIS or can't possibly know know that... it's freaking assumed, man. Jesus.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 19, 2012 2:19:40 GMT -5
STOP PLAYING GAMES, WE'RE HERE TO HAVE FUN!!!
I randomly accuse whoever is below me on the player list.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 19, 2012 2:20:51 GMT -5
....Drat.
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Post by Silver Jan on Sept 19, 2012 2:23:04 GMT -5
I know he's intentionally lurking to target himself. How do you know this? Anyway, unless I hear an overwhelming number of players disagreeing, I'm going to be using my powers to confirm myself. So, I'm going to be posting the minimal number of posts to enable that. If need be, I'll post my responses to the Day at Night, when the number of posts don't matter. Pleo said he was going to lurk and it does bug me that by doing so he is going against his wincon where he has to post a lot. It's all WIFOM and I have seen him post his PM and he's been telling the truth. I sort of understand why Mahaloth posted his PM, how else would Town know that he could be converted, I think that he has painted a target on his back though because would scum really want an extra Town player? If Mahaloth is telling the truth I think he should be converted as soon as possible and I don't like the thought of him having a shot in the dark because unless he is lucky the odds are he will kill a Townie.
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Post by scáthach on Sept 19, 2012 4:23:32 GMT -5
Mahaloth would be a good guy to have aboard - can someone with the power help him to the town side - I would if I could This post sort of pings me - it's a bit too "I'm a helpless townie" if you know what I mean. As for the Pleo wagon - frankly I'd be ok voting him as policy in the hopes that it would stop him claiming D1 every game, but that's just me. I'm also a bit paranoid about his stated wincon - I don't see why on earth he would lurk to prove himself with a wincon like his - it just doesn't seem to make sense. My tinfoil hat says he has an entirely different wincon - one that he wants us to wait three days before lynching him to achieve. vote Pleonast vote patricia
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Post by BillMc on Sept 19, 2012 5:06:32 GMT -5
when I posted my previous comments on Pleo's claim, I had missed his post saying he was going to lurk to confirm himself. 3. The third Night, if the same person is STILL in the lowest 20% of post volume, you may paint their role name, alignment, and desgination on their face and all over their room so at Dawn the entire public will know who they are. It says "you"......meaning Pleo, not the Mod, will post the results. We cannot trust his results. I agree with Lauriern, the PM is worded "you" - it does not state that the MOD will give the results. So after three days he will repost what he has already posted -- so not exactly helpful. If he posted a load of crap for three days and met the win con -- then I would assume that the Mod would post that someone had met their wincon -- so he is doing the opposite from being confirmed. As for Mahaloth's claim -- it sounds a bit like his Solomon Grundy claim - recruitable 3rd party. An autorecruiting one shot unstoppable vig - and he claims? And only recruitable by town? so why bother claiming at all? If your claim is true, you have a very good chance of picking town at random for your visit - and there is no downside if you visit non-town. Indeed, you would instantly know if someone is non-town as you wouldnt get a recruitment offer. Hell you could go every night, turn down recruitment if you find town, and ultimately find all non-town. And with this possible power, you want to give it up to just become town?
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2012 6:07:02 GMT -5
If your claim is true, you have a very good chance of picking town at random for your visit - and there is no downside if you visit non-town. Indeed, you would instantly know if someone is non-town as you wouldnt get a recruitment offer. Hell you could go every night, turn down recruitment if you find town, and ultimately find all non-town. And with this possible power, you want to give it up to just become town? To take it further, his PM appears to be missing some wincon info. It doesn't say he HAS to become Town in order to win, but it also doesn't say how he wins if he DOESN'T become Town. Mahaloth, any comments?
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2012 6:11:45 GMT -5
Where is Storyteller?
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 19, 2012 7:51:41 GMT -5
probably doing something silly like working and having a life. oh well, for that poor tribe we can only wish them well. and i agree with others at this point. pleo is behaving in a manner that is in direct contradiction to his stated wincon. that is problematic.
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Post by Mahaloth on Sept 19, 2012 9:07:37 GMT -5
To take it further, his PM appears to be missing some wincon info. It doesn't say he HAS to become Town in order to win, but it also doesn't say how he wins if he DOESN'T become Town. Mahaloth, any comments? Nope, that's the PM. I can't win if I don't become Town, so there is no win-con that way. Did you not get that?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Sept 19, 2012 9:08:36 GMT -5
-Snipped and bleached- VOTE LIGHTFOOT VOTE DIZZYMRSLIZZY In most games, scum know other scum, and therefore they know whos is not scum. Do you know why this would NOT be the case, Dizzy? Your statement was that scum would know exactly what he was Meeko. How would scum know what he is unless he was scum? So you are saying your statement: was referring only to the last game? And not this one? I read it as you saying that "Scum know exactly who Pleo is in this game" which I twisted into thinking that you knew who he was, because in this game I don't think anyone knows exactly who a 3rd party is. People lie, Claims don't really mean anything, so unless he's Scum, then Scum would have the same knowledge about him as we do? Unless I'm missing a piece here? If you were just referring to the Marathon, then yes Scum knew exactly who Pleo was then, and I will rescind my vote, because I misread your quote.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 19, 2012 9:11:01 GMT -5
To take it further, his PM appears to be missing some wincon info. It doesn't say he HAS to become Town in order to win, but it also doesn't say how he wins if he DOESN'T become Town. Mahaloth, any comments? Nope, that's the PM. I can't win if I don't become Town, so there is no win-con that way. Did you not get that? No, I didn't get that. It doesn't say that.
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Post by scáthach on Sept 19, 2012 9:22:48 GMT -5
To take it further, his PM appears to be missing some wincon info. It doesn't say he HAS to become Town in order to win, but it also doesn't say how he wins if he DOESN'T become Town. Mahaloth, any comments? Nope, that's the PM. I can't win if I don't become Town, so there is no win-con that way. Did you not get that? I don't get it Like - it seems guaranteed that at some point you'll hit town if you go around with your towel or whatever the mechanic was. So what's the point? If you can't be recruited by scum why be recruitable? If you can't win without being recruited then you're not really third party?
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Post by sinjin on Sept 19, 2012 9:45:10 GMT -5
@is: if I didn't play when Pleo was playing I would not play much at all I hate his claiming as an in game mechanic not a RL thing. @all: With a few changes to Pleo's PM his claim makes sense. What if he's not the anti-lurker at all but is the LURKER. And his win con is satisfied by lurking for 3 days in a row? or 5 days not in a row? Then his claim and his play makes perfect sense. He's lurking in plain sight and and a lot of folk are going along. Then the question becomes would this role be hostile or non-hostile....Given that this is a Gastard Game would Pollux be Gastard enough to give the game to the LURKER if we all let him get away with it? Just my tin foil hat thoughts in the middle of the night.
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