Day Five

[sinjin]

Aw shoot, I forgot episodeofblonde is going to be away for the end of the day. Now what?

unvote episodeofblonde

[Santo Rugger]

Here's what I think about Captain Klutz:

1. He's dangerous. Regardless of his affiliation, he's got some ideas in his head about this game. I've been scum with here, he has the ability to develop an elaborate plan.

2. I don't believe scum would be told directly who a power role was. If they found out, that would explain Kat's early demise. But I strongly believe the clue was subtle enough that it wouldn't be found. First letter anagrams are the easiest code to figure out, but only if you know you're looking for it.

3. He's dangerous. I think this is a great point in the game to take a small risk that could determine the game. I'm going to trust CK's claim. It is unfortunate that Kat didn't have any investigations to share, which is a small check-minus, but I'm going to have some faith on this one.

Switching subjects...

4. Process of elimination is a powerful tool I've used time and again as scum to determine who to night kill. I see no reason why I can't develop this tool to help the town decide on eligible lynchees. With that being said, these are the people I don't refuse to lynch today:



3. CatinaSuit v. 2.0 (Hal Briston)
4. CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
5. Death by Irony
6. diggitcamara
7. drainbead
8. episodeofblonde
10. Kat v. 2.0 (Yattara)
11. Parzival
12. Roosh
15. Tragic (hazelnutcoffee)
16. zuma Version 2.0 (Blaster Master)

If there are 5 scum, and assuming the 5 people I've removed from the list are confirmed town, that means scum need to force five mislynches still. I don't want to count on pee to determine it, because kassia and I both seem to feel we can only really confirm one more person. So, basically, this game is up in the air. If we take P-man off that list, it's still a coin-flip, but still in our favor. Even though we haven't caught any scum, I still have a large deal of confidence in the outcome of this game.

[diggitcamara]

catinasuit said:

(snip)

Umm, any reason for missing off drainbead and episodeofblonde off the list of suspects. Those two are my major suspects, so I'm slightly surprised.

Bad cut-and-pasting is my only reason for that.

And that not-so-subtle hint on Day 1 is, in my eyes, an absolute confirmation of his non-guilt.

It does make him guilty of her Death (by disclosing information far too early, far too visibly), but that's an entirely different story.

[diggitcamara]

sinjin said:

We started out with 25 players, we are down to 16 now.

Sorry about that, again. (If you haven't noticed, I have been kind of absent during this game. And maybe you haven't noticed it in previous games, but I'm prone to this kind of mistakes. For some reason I thought storyteller was using the counting methods of previous games, where players get assigned a number at the start of the game and keep it 'til the end. I saw the highest number (16) and assumed that was the number of players at the start. My mistake).

The original question stands, though. How many Replicants were thter at the start of the game?

[Santo Rugger]

diggitcamara said:

<snip>It does make him guilty of her Death (by disclosing information far too early, far too visibly), but that's an entirely different story.

While I see the point, I disagree. In Firefly, we decided to keep P-man alive after our first attempted kill on him, even though we knew he had a power role. This was because he sacrificed Z-man's name and rolename to us when we attempted to kill him. Unless the scum are going after a suspected doctor, instead of just trying to kill known roles (which I doubt, due to the no kill last night), they should have taken out P-man if they saw his "Oracle Flag", if you will.

[Death By Irony]

A list, to keep my thoughts organized... (and using the standard Mafia terms because the in-game roles don't mean all that much to me)

Please correct any errors I may have committed as I'm typing off the top of my head.

- Claims -
*sinjin: variant Detective (investigated Colonists have a 50% chance of peeing blue)
*atarus: Mason
*pygmy rugger: Colonist (claims blue pee)
*kassia: Colonist (claims blue pee)
*Captain Klutz: back-up variant Detective (would have received Hockey Monkey's results, if she had any)

Captain Klutz's breadcrumb and subsequent claim does look suspicious in light of the fact that he's still alive, but personally drain bead still ranks higher on my suspicion. My vote stays where it is.

[storyteller0910]

OFFICAL VOTE COUNT - DAY FIVE, PAGE 6

Captain Klutz (3) - CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, Roosh, episodeofblonde
drainbead (2) - DeathbyIrony, atarus
episodeofblonde (1) - Captain Klutz
Tragic (1) - diggitcamara

Seven votes have been cast. The Day will end on Thursday, 12.20, at 12:00PM, or in approximately 41 hours, unless someone reaches nine votes before that time.

[Drain Bead]

Here, checking in briefly. Life got a bit crazy very suddenly. This time of year will do that.

The only thing that bothers me about CK's roleclaim is that there seems to be a whole lot of investigative-type roles in this game. An investigator, a backup investigator, a Whizzinator...something's odd here. I understand that with CK's claim being as it is, he's essentially vanilla now, but Kat dying on the first Night was not something that story could have predicted when designing this game. I sense the potentially incredibly misleading power of the Whizzinator, seeing as our dear departed Blade Runner was a replicant and would not have whizzed blue at all, but even with that built in it just seems like a lot of investigator types.

[Gir!]

If all the roleclaims are legit, it could mean that scum has some nifty power roles to counter balance. We had several investigators in Firefly (cop, backup cop, watcher and the River-centric investigators). The fact that the cop-roles in this game are a little more limited than Firefly's mitigates it somewhat, I think.

cometothedarkside said:

There have been some pretty powerful town roles exposed in this game. It will take a lot of convincing to get me to swallow Klutz's claim and to rule out the possibility that the scum have/had a power that could've picked up on a Kat v1 day action or to sniff out her title in some way by Day.

This is entirely possible, but I'm going to believe it for now, since otherwise, I'd have to call storyteller the B-word.

[RoOsh]

diggitcamara said:

Forgot to ask a question: how many Replicants do y'all think we're dealing with?
What do you think?

I said this earlier actually in the day.
I believe it's 6 replicants left and i think we started with 7.

kat said:

As previously mentioned, Roosh is next on my suspect list; I'll wait for his promised response before voting him.

Mmkay, I just got back, Lemme take a shower and get ready, and I'll devote my time then to your questions.

-And Unvote Klutz for right now. I gotta think this one more, but on first glance, I don't want him to lead in votes.
I'm not sure I believe Klutz as a fully Townie just yet (as his ideas are still radical, and based on playstyle), but that hint on Day 1 is a pretty hard thing to just "make up" :shrug: I'm not sure what to do with this one.... So, Shower time and then I'll look at these boards.

[Parzival]

At the start of the Day, I was thinking that kassia, Cookies, and DBI were looking the most suspicious to me. Klutz was (and still is) looking more strange after last Night. Even with the role claim, I'm not certain of his alignment; but I'm inclined to think the way he's acted is not rogue replicant, whatever it may be.

kassia is semi-confirmed by the blue wee. So that leaves Cookies as my top candidate. I think she's continued to try to distract the town and cast doubt, which just hasn't been that helpful. Even today her continued mistrust about Klutz feels like a distraction, and while I don't have time to do a more detailed analysis, I'm putting my vote in since I probably won't get another time to do more than check in briefly.

But it's also come to my attention throughout the Day that episodeofblonde is looking suspicious to some. I did notice her strange vote for me for Gov. on the first Day. I thought it was either town trying to pick a random person and get them talking, or scum trying to link me to her. Some people pointed out subsequent mentions by her or me, and I want to look into them. I want to know if it's her doing the linking or scum now trying to make the link. (Either way, I think scum are involved, since there's no good reason to link people together. I think scum will keep themselves separated unless they see an opportunity that favors them.)



vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

[RoOsh]

kat said:

Roosh
-EoS Pleonast for gov autolynch idea Day 1 reply 63

-Yes. You call out my VERY first post of the game. I started a Day behind everyone, as people had already finished Night Zero and whatnot before I showed up. You should know me by now, I'm gonna be posting as I read, and I WILL chime in my 2Cents on what I think of good/crappy ideas.
Let me quote the whole part that discusses the idea: Jesus Christ... Thursdays I'm in class all day and i come back and see that I didn't post for a WHOLE DAY?!?!?!
That's Very unlikely to happen again. Heh. Even if it was a Day zero. Damn!

But still, my opinions: as i LOVE to give them out:

Dude- the "Lets autolych the Gov idea": STUPID.BAD! Most uncool.
I dislike it, because its creating an "automatic deferral of guilt" in voting. Just like voting for a no lynch, having an Auto-Kill policy BLOWS. Because what that could lead to is Scum not voting for Governor, we then elect a gov'nor, and then Scum can just vote for killing him and say "Well... he wasn't the guy I wanted for Gov... but I guess I'll agree with this townie idea" and then BAM- instant fuckage.
It just sounds like a bad idea in my head. Not enough to warrant a full out FoS. But def an Eyebrow of Suspicion. (O_<)
EoS Pleo in my head....

*Note*
I gave my opinions on the "Auto-lynch the Governor Idea", because frankly it was a bad idea, and it STILL sounds like a bad idea to me.
I even stated the idea was crap, the flaws in it. AND it's why I gave him an EoS, because yeah, he did "modify" his idea. But he STILL proposed HIS version first. Just because someone backtracks on an idea doesn't automatically mean his first idea gets a free pass. It's why I only gave him the eyebrow rather than a full out FoS, as it was a reminder to keep my eye on him, because it sounded like a very scummy idea back then, and still does to me.
--I'm not sure what the problem is here.... I didn't say the MODIFIED plan was scummy, I said the "AutoLynch the GOVERNOR Plan" was bad.

kat said:

-NAF proposed modification of his “vote for low posters” suggestion in reply 65 of Night 1* that was:
"If everyone agrees to keep fluff posting to an absolute minimum during the Days (Night is different) and in the first two Days we vote out the player will the fewest posts, the people with lots of padded fluffy posts are significantly more likely to be scum."
(roughly: vote for low posters and fluffy posters)
Roosh mischaracterizes as “vote for low posters and high posters” in reply 63 of Day 1

*T'was Day 1, post 65 that he said this.
*So lemme find my post, as Post 63 was made BEFORE Post 65. So you're saying i misinterpreted something that was stated AFTER my own post....
.... This is an odd thing to use against me, but I'll clarify it if you like:

I DIDN'T 'mischaracterize' it as "mischaracterizes as “vote for low posters and high posters” AGAIN, let me quote myself:

And then you also then added an addendum which I personally hated: Let's not only look at only those with low post counts, lets look at the guys who'll have the HIGHEST post counts.
~Smileys and irrelevant commentary snipped~
That's basically in my head going: "Let's always vote Roosh."

It wasn't me just saying HIGHEST post counts, it was me stating i felt the plan was just to KILL ME. Paranoid much? Coming off of a FF Game where I felt attacked over and over for reasons just like that, and knowing he was a mod of it.... YES.
I felt his plan was targeting ME, because at the time, I felt I would have the highest post counts (again coming off of FF), and so I would have lots of high content posts, but I would also have TONS of fluffy posts, since I tend to double and triple post (a habit i've tried to kick as i've gotten used to these boards). So i took that plan as a basic way to target ME specifically not just "high posters".
--I stated all this on Post #66, which you neglect to mention.... I pretty much reconcile with NAF there once we get some clarification.
-->Again, not sure what you're trying to get at w/ Post 63 going against POST 65... But if you claim that, then I say look and read at post 66.

kat said:

-Proposed & supported “vote low posters into Gov office” in replies 63, 64 & 68 of Day 1, Pleo does so in reply 97, NAF does so in reply 109, neither specified if it was in response to Roosh’s suggestion, but both took flak on it from Rugger (replies 107 & 112) and Pleo was also called on it by mhaye (replies#285 & 337). Roosh did not get any direct response, nor did he point out later (after Pleo & NAF were criticized for using his (or their own similar) Gov-vote strategy) that he was the originator of the idea, even though he scrutinized/summarized the rest of Pleo’s Gov-related discussion (especially in reply #201)

--Are you asking me Why I didn't defend Pleonast and NAF when they're getting picked on by Gov. Rugger?
--Because I didn't know if they were town or not. And I don't consider myself the type of person to just randomly defend people/step into other people's business like that (Atarus, I am not). I saw it as Pleo and NAF being questioned By Gov. Rugger and by Mhaye. If I was to be questioned, I would have defended myself, but there's no way I'm gonna go out and defend two people whose alignments I didn't know for any reason.
--And as for why didn't I point out they were criticized.... I'm not sure I understand you at all here. I didn't HAVE to criticize them for that point, because I AGREED with them on it. I brought up the issues I had with their points, but the one they agreed with me on, was not one that I had issues with. So uh... What are you trying to get at here?
:shrug: Gov. Rugger and mhaye didn't ask me the same questions they asked NAF and Pleonast, I think that's not my problem, but one you should be asking HIM then. I can only answer the Q's I'm GIVEN, not the one's I'm NOT given. And as for why I didn't bring it up, it was because I didn't have a PROBLEM with said idea.

kat said:

-Appears to be the first one to theorize more than just Town/Scum, in reply 66 of Day 1

--That I did. I am a vocal player. And I do like to share my opinions. Those were my opinions at the time: Note the phrase
But i ALWAYS like to think the worst. So I'm gonna say more than 2 groups until my gut feelings go away. But just wanted to share than opinion (I didn't feel like making a whole new post just to say that, as it's a pretty trivial thing, but it's where i stand at least,

And then what did I see at Dawn? 3 Kills. Since then? Not so many. 1 Kill most of the time.
Do I still believe There are more than 2 roles? :shrug: Since no one asked, but me, I'll tell you: I still think there's a survivor type role, but for factions I think its just gonna be basic Town Vs. Scum.
I don't think there's an SK or psycho-murderer or anything like that any more. I did for a while, but no longer.
Maybe you should ask Questions rather than just quote random opinions of mine, as I have lots of them, and I'm not sure where you're going with them.

kat said:

-Day 1 reply 315 (and probably others, but I’m not going back again today): reiterates that his vote for Pleo is due to Pleo defending his bad plan, yet Pleo had long before publicly switched to support atarus’ modified plan, which Roosh had said was not bad

--If he publicly SUPPORTED Atarus' plan, WHY did he continually DEFEND his old plan (and quite poorly)? That was my issue. He didn't let the plan go. To me, that's not supporting a new plan. That's clinging to the old plan still while doing other stuff.

Again, my Quote from that very same post:
And the very fact that he was still defending his plan (in the face of many people pointing out it was a terrible plan), is what is making me suspicious of him. It is NOT the PLAN itself.
=Those two things are why i'm voting for Pleo. NOT the Plan.

As for not failing to see the flaw in a plan, fine, but over 24 hours passed, and others had chimed in on how the plan was terrible, yet he still stuck to them. That's my issue with it.
I speak from my own experience, i Created a TERRIBLE plan as a Townie, but once i realized my mistake, I did all I could to tweak the plan, to apologize for the plan, and to retract the plan. I kept my opinions of the plan to myself until further data was provided (about up till Day 3-4, and even then it wasn't great).
That's why I have problems with it. It's what he's done AFTER the plan that find terrible. NOT the plan itself. It is the refusal to ADMIT the PLAN IS FLAWED and the way he defends the plan by NOT TALKING about the plan, but instead creating this bullshit argument that my finding his plan terrible is discouraging others from posting their plans.

My big key problems were 1. The plan was being defended.
2. The plan was being defending using the Crappiest Logic ever: That my taking issue with the plan was hurting the Town.
It was #2 that was my biggest problem w/ him Day 1. He "defended" his plans by stating that MY comments were hurting the Town as a whole, at the time, that was a bullshit argument, and I felt it was a straw man. Hence my taking issue with him over it. If he had RATIONALLY tried to defend his plans OR if he had just stated fine, they were crappy ideas, then it would have been done.
But he seemed to suggest as if the plans could be implemented still, and I found that highly suspicious, and when I called him out on it, I was told that my doing so was hurting the Town.
That makes me GREATLY suspicious.
:Shrug:
YMMV, but that's my side of the story behind each of those posts you've mentioned.


I'm not sure what your conclusion was from it, and kinda wished you'd given QUESTIONS rather than just referred to posts as being "suspicious" when I tend to disagree, you just tended to not point to the following posts, or the content WITHIN the posts that explained my actions.

But there ya go. Hope that helps.
Any more Questions?

[RoOsh]

parzival said:

But it's also come to my attention throughout the Day that episodeofblonde is looking suspicious to some. I did notice her strange vote for me for Gov. on the first Day. I thought it was either town trying to pick a random person and get them talking, or scum trying to link me to her. Some people pointed out subsequent mentions by her or me, and I want to look into them. I want to know if it's her doing the linking or scum now trying to make the link. (Either way, I think scum are involved, since there's no good reason to link people together. I think scum will keep themselves separated unless they see an opportunity that favors them.)

I was one of the people who noted a link. I saw that she mentions you at the Start, voting you for Governor.
And then that after that there was NOTHING.
I believe my comments/take on the issue were as follows:
-Parzival: She's always been quite pro-Parzival except for a very weak FOSing of him for "being too helpful". This was utter crap. Why she keeps boosting Parzy, I'm not sure. But it's stood out to me, that she's never been suspicious of him, and the only time she was suspicious of him, it was cuz he's "too helpful".

She's agreed with you and CAIS for Voting for Zeriel, however, both of them changed thier votes throughout that day, and she's never voiced any suspicion of you since voting you for Gov. Except for ONE time, when you FoSed you for being "too helpful" basically.
That to me stands out as very odd.

Your take on the issue would be certainly appreciated.

[CatInASuit]

A straight question for Captain Klutz,

You picked 5 people on Night 4 as your scum list.

How did you pick them and what assumptions did you make when choosing them.

I want to know what theories you used to see if any are applicable.

[Captain Klutz]

catinasuit said:

It stills seems a very strange role to have in the game apart from the fact your code is there on Day 1 before any investigations. Especially as Kat would only have had 2 or 3 pieces of info to pass across to you.

As the term "Neuromancer" wasn't really used until Day 2, I guess it is valid.

Captain Klutz, in your list of 5 scum, kassia and diggitcamara also fitted the pattern you were discussing. Any reason for not including them as well?

Kassia didn't stand out to me. The people she was suspicious of were all dead, and no-one (except me) seemed to be suspicious of her. Although Tragic did, in fact, vote for her on Day 4.

Diggitcamara (and Kat.v2 for that matter) pretty well escaped my attention as they have had so few posts. This is, of course, a fairly poor reason for people to escape notice, which was one of the weaknesses of my method.


On preview, Cat.v2:
The 5 people were chosen because, while reading through, I formed an opinion that those 5 appeared to be vaguely "aware" of each other, that they didn't seem to have real suspicions of each other. I can't really put it much more clearly than that. Yes, it is very unscientific and prone to confirmation bias. If it was just that, I wouldn't have posted it. It was when I checked the Day 1 vote and noticed that the 4 who voted had all voted for different people. That was a surprise, and very interesting, as scum tend to avoid "clumping" on Day 1 (with plurality voting in any case). I then decided it was worth posting.

[Captain Klutz]

Episodeofblonde is away for the rest of the Day, so I'll switch to my number 2:

Unvote episodeofblonde

Vote Cookies

[Drain Bead]

Roosh:

I said this earlier actually in the day.
I believe it's 6 replicants left and i think we started with 7.

Seeing as we haven't managed to find and kill a replicant yet (not counting Pleonast, who was certainly not a replicant in the context of what was being asked and answered here), how do you come to that conclusion?

[Tragic]

Ok.. doing my best here given the time I'm lacking (and if anyone is seriously that dissapointed in me I'll sub out.. I don't wanna make this game less fun by beinga drag!).


First thing to reply to:

D5.41 - Kassia's analysis.

It's certainly heated at the bottom but I appreciate the clean post by post you did of me. It's helped me to see my own game through another light. And maybe the solution is that I do need to sub out but I'm trying here and doing my damdest to stay afloat even if it's not as active as other games have been on this board it's pretty intense. The games I've played before have relied less on out in the open discussions and almost entirely on cloak and dagger AIM discussions so to play this style takes a lot more analysis and I'm getting used to reading other peoples and creating my own. For all intents and purposes I'm a newbie to mafia games.

On the one hand, I want to just acknowledge that she has been busy, had company, has a cold, etc etc etc. And give her the benefit of the doubt.

(More out of game than in.. but I've had this stupid cold for 2 weeks now and it's been kicking my ass. F-ing miserable all the time and it makes me cranky so I apologize for any snippiness in any post now, future or past.)

In posts 2.27 and 4.163 she makes syntax mistakes, using outside games as an excuse.

Maybe it's something special on this board but I just don't see the big deal of my using a different term here by accident? So on my last site it was Spies/Citizens instead of scum/townies. And since I was involved in that game for almost 2 months I see it as natural that I make a slip.

She talks and talks and talks about doing thorough, in-depth player analysis, but not once does she present us with any that she has done herself.

Yes, I know, I'm a bad person for teasing you al llike this. *sigh* In all honesty it takes me time to do an analysis post - for instance when I did my post by post on DBI that took me several hours over the coruse of a workday. I generally don't have that kind of time to do. And if I start a post (as I've tried to do several times) to try and do it in pieces over several days by the time I'm done it's irrelevant because someone else has brought up all that same information. When you're playing with people like Klutz, Roosh and CAIS2 it's overwhelming (love you guys though).

In post 3.186 she first says that sinjin hasn't shown any scumtell. then 2 sentences later all of a sudden sinjin is on her top 4 scum list. How does that happen?

Other things to comment on:

I know someone brought it up but I was thinking it too for a while. Either there's a lot of powerful roles in this game or there's some false roleclaims going on. Or the roles are balanced between the scum and the townies. But the thing is about that last idea is the only things I've seen the scum do that appeared powerful - or at least stood out - was the triple kill on Night One and the loss of several early Role players. What are people's opinions on the role claims going around? Fake? Real? Etc.

Initially I was concerned by Klutz's list - and the fact that he had left himself off of it. That was supsicious to me and so is his claim but the fact that several people have been unvoting him makes me want to read more into the discussions that were being held regarding him. Or to see who the bigger target is this time around. I'd assumed it was going to be drainbead but several people have emerged as potential votes (myself included) and there seems to be a lot of detailed discussion to sift through.

Borrowing a stylistic thing from CAIS2.. I'll liste my suspects, etc. Hopefully this'll help people get a clearer read on me. And to be completely selfish it'll help me keep better track of my overall thoughts instead of just by the minute/by the Day.

Suspects: 2. Captain Klutz // 7. drainbead // 9. kassia //3. CatinaSuit v. 2.0 (Hal Briston) // 12. Roosh // 8. episodeofblonde // 10. Kat v. 2.0 (Yattara) // 14. sinjin // 4. CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies // 5. Death by Irony // 6. diggitcamara // 16. zuma Version 2.0 (Blaster Master)
Semi-Confirmed Town: 11. Parzival // 13. Santo Rugger
Definitely Town: 15. Tragic (hazelnutcoffee) // 1. atarus


And another few hours down.. *runs back to work*

[RoOsh]

drainbead said:

how do you come to that conclusion?

Personal belief.
And I AM counting pleonast as one of the 7.
I feel we started out with 7 replicants, but I don't know how many are scum or not.

[RoOsh]

My suspects on the list are still CaiSv2.0, Episode (who is gone currently, so I may go with the person who seemed pro-Episode, noting that she seemed "pro-town"- Cookies).

But right now, I've got a friend who's apparently homeless right now. So I need to help fix that problem. But those 3 are my suspicion list, with zuma trailing from way back at the start of the day.

Just so you know where i'm thinking of.

--And don't quit, Tragic. I think you should finish what you started.... That and dealing with a sub this late in the game would be a bitch. T'would be better just to modkill you. But I do not want to modkill anyone randomly without knowing who or what they are. So just... try harder, and I'll try not to bug you as much.... But try to finish the game.

[Tragic]

roosh said:

--And don't quit, Tragic. I think you should finish what you started.... That and dealing with a sub this late in the game would be a bitch. T'would be better just to modkill you. But I do not want to modkill anyone randomly without knowing who or what they are. So just... try harder, and I'll try not to bug you as much.... But try to finish the game.

I can handle you.. *laughs* I meant that more as a "I feel inadequate" kind of comment than a "stop bugging me.. whiiiine" comment. Just to clarify.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Tragic: Can you explain why Parzival makes your Semi-Confirmed Town but kassia doesn't?

Parzival and Klutz have both advanced the perspective that scum will go out of their way not to cluster unless it is necessary or otherwise desirable to do so. Then Klutz goes back to Day 1 and builds some case for some apparent "anti-cluster" behavior involving me and other players. Day 1 likely holds dozens of similar patterns/anti-patterns, many of them as irrelevant and indicative of nothing in regards to individual alignments as Klutz's is.

Not really sure what Parzival's case is against me. Distraction and doubt? I don't necessarily see those as bad things, depending on perspective. Distracting the remaining colonists away from the sort of conversations that have resulted in a lynching record composed 100% of Colonists is not a bad thing, some might even call it a strategy. Casting doubt on players that one finds suspicious is pretty much the primary tool for playing the game.

[Pollux Oil]

Well I said I was going to do this last night, but a social life happened when I didn't expect it to so today I did my promised reread of Cookies' post. Didn't come up with much.

Day 3.21

I'm relieved that we only suffered one death last Night, but I'm anxious about the concentrated environment we have with so many of the vanillas dead. There is a lot less camoflage for any sort of perfect/unshared knowledge now. I fear that we're going to continue in a stale-mate where new information is guarded more carefully than usual.

This post strikes me as odd. I remember myself remarking that it was kind of weird that 5 out of the first 6 deaths were vanilla, but this post takes it a step further. Coming out and saying there's less camouflage for perfect knowledge seems like it could be a subtle hint to other scum to watch what they say.

Night 3.39

How safe do the rest of you feel about ruling Pleo's vig power out as a killing force on Night 1? I would think that he would've fessed up had one of the bodies been his kill, but at the same time his parting posts are confusing me with the mixture of heavy-handed breadcrumbing for Santo, while at the same time being quite vague in other areas where there was at least a possibility that he had further solid info that he could've shared.

Considering there were three kills the first Night, and we just discovered that Pleo had a night-Vig ability, I don't really get the logic jump of ruling him out as a killing force the first Night.

Night 4.5

The Town is being led around by our collective noses, it would seem. I felt like a bull in a china shop with the first two Colonist lynches that I participated in. Since then, I've managed to avoid voting any innocents into the chair, but I have honestly no idea if anything that I'm saying or doing is actually helping at all.

Does the person just watching the mob gang up on someone do any less damage than the people in the mob?

This post just jumped out at me as slightly fishy for some reason. She was one of the first votes (that stuck) on zumaV1, and in the first group of voters for Diomedes, so why would she say she felt like a "bull in a china shop"? Also, it seems kind of suspicious to me that she'd point out "well hey, since then I haven't voted any innocents to be electrocuted."

---

Those are the only fishy things I picked up on. That being said, I still don't think Cookies is fishier or more scummy than drainbead, so my vote will stay where it is. Between her and DBI, though, I'm back to square one as to who's the scummiest of the two.

[Tragic]

cometothedarkside said:

Tragic: Can you explain why Parzival makes your Semi-Confirmed Town but kassia doesn't?

For the most part I've always found Parvizal to be a calm and confident voice in the town. He's been commited to the game, to us and what not for some time now. I really started looking at him as down during the Day where we voted together (day 3, Zeriel). He could be scum for all I know but at the moment I just don't see it (feel free to make a case and I'll read it if you're of the opposite mind set).

I still feel off about kassia (and it's bitchy of me becuase I'm off about her for some of the reasons people are feeling off about me). Part of it is lingering doubt from the last time I voted her and a bit of stubborness on my part (bad trait :X). And maybe it's time reviwe her again on my part..

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Here are the bits from my case against Klutz that reference episodeofblonde.

cometothedarkside said:

Night Four # 23 – defends against suspicion from episodeblonde with the notion that speculation about scum roles is healthy, which strikes me as a (very mild) "Why do you hate America?" that he tries to spin against her.

Night Four # 40 - says that zeriel's death and Colonist confirmation caused him to do a major re-think. (The first thing that popped into my mind is that Idle Thoughts said something eerily similar in response to my monk claim in M5...right before he false-counter-claimed...) Calls out Roosh, me, Perzival, episodeofblonde, and tragic as his "confident they're scum" list, but doesn't offer any explanations as to why.

Night Four #61 - compares notes with Atarus and agrees that the interpretations where I overlap as scum on both of their lists is the most likely. Not shocking that I believe the flip side of the coin, and have been suspicious of drainbead and DBI, while episodeofblonde has steadily ping'd me as Colonist.

So taken in context, we have one statement where I offer a gut read on another player as being "Colonist". You are free to see this as a statement of staunch pro-episodeblonde support if you wish, Roosh, but there is a conditional aspect to why I am even referencing her name. However you stack Klutz's and atarus' lists on each other, however you overlap them or slice and dice them that ends up with me high on a list of suspects, since such analysis of me was wrong, it could very well be wrong about anyone else near me on that list as well. I hadn't felt compelled to suspect or vote for episodeofblonde at the time I made the quoted statement, while I had both suspected and voted for drain and DBI.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

atarus said:

Well I said I was going to do this last night, but a social life happened when I didn't expect it to so today I did my promised reread of Cookies' post. Didn't come up with much.

Day 3.21

I'm relieved that we only suffered one death last Night, but I'm anxious about the concentrated environment we have with so many of the vanillas dead. There is a lot less camoflage for any sort of perfect/unshared knowledge now. I fear that we're going to continue in a stale-mate where new information is guarded more carefully than usual.

This post strikes me as odd. I remember myself remarking that it was kind of weird that 5 out of the first 6 deaths were vanilla, but this post takes it a step further. Coming out and saying there's less camouflage for perfect knowledge seems like it could be a subtle hint to other scum to watch what they say.

Actually, it was a not-so-subtle reminder for any town power roles to watch what they say.

Night 3.39



Considering there were three kills the first Night, and we just discovered that Pleo had a night-Vig ability, I don't really get the logic jump of ruling him out as a killing force the first Night.

If Pleo didn't kill anyone on Night 1, it means we have/had other killing roles (one-time only or not). I still consider this an open question, actually. I really think Pleo would've/should've claimed any of his kills, if he made any.

Night 4.5

The Town is being led around by our collective noses, it would seem. I felt like a bull in a china shop with the first two Colonist lynches that I participated in. Since then, I've managed to avoid voting any innocents into the chair, but I have honestly no idea if anything that I'm saying or doing is actually helping at all.

Does the person just watching the mob gang up on someone do any less damage than the people in the mob?

This post just jumped out at me as slightly fishy for some reason. She was one of the first votes (that stuck) on zumaV1, and in the first group of voters for Diomedes, so why would she say she felt like a "bull in a china shop"? Also, it seems kind of suspicious to me that she'd point out "well hey, since then I haven't voted any innocents to be electrocuted."

I don't like being wrong with my lynch targets for three reasons: a) being wrong, b) making it easier for others to be wrong with me (as I believe people can tend to justify voting based on why others have voted for the same person, especially early in the game, and c) making it easier for scum to either directly or indirectly participate in town-on-town violence.

[kassia]

Tragic, thank you for your response to my post from a few days ago. I appreciate the time you took to do that. I completely understand being busy - really can't mark points off you for that since I haven't been around much recently either. Just like Cookies, I am a bit confused as to why you list Parzival on your semi-confirmed list. I know you have given reasons for it, but at this point in the game, without any hard evidence to support a player as Colony, it seems odd that you would feel so strongly about his role.

I'm really not sure what to think of Klutz's role claim. The style in which he has been playing recently just seems really odd to me, and doesn't seem to fit in well with his claimed role. I can't really put my finger on it, but I plan on looking into it more thoroughly this afternoon and tonight.

Looking back on my voting history, it's upsetting that I've made some bad choices (along with lots of other players) and have jumped on several bandwagons to lynch Colonists. I'd like to take a closer look at things toDay before I make my vote - particularly looking at drainbead and DBI. I'll be back later to share some of my thoughts.

PS - the good news (well kinda good news) is that I drew the short straw and will be working most of next week. But nobody else at my job will be so it will be extremely slow and I'll have plenty of time to be online and do some deep dissections of what's been happening.

[Parzival]

Real quickly -

Roosh, I do now recall eob's response to my analysis of zeriel, and when you combine it with her early vote for me as Gov (which was not suspecting me so much as seeing what I'd do with the role), it does seem more like "chummy scum" move from eob.

And then I've got Tragic putting me as 'semi-confirmed' but not kassia? Did you get the pee results mixed up? I had something happen to me which was probably not the nanobots, though at first I thought it was when Rugger spoke up this morning. This in no way says anything about my alignment. I'm suspicious of all this 'praise' for me since even if you are town, you're only painting a target on my back if the scum know I'm trusted.

I'm also wondering about where the non-scum ('rogue replicant') but anti-colony players may be, whose existence is suggested by the opening color. Also the potential for 'pro-colony' replicants. I hope it'd be obvious but if there are any around and they make a claim, they should reveal their non-human status so Sinjin doesn't waste time trying to test them.

[RoOsh]

cometothedarkside said:

Not really sure what Parzival's case is against me. Distraction and doubt? I don't necessarily see those as bad things, depending on perspective. Distracting the remaining colonists away from the sort of conversations that have resulted in a lynching record composed 100% of Colonists is not a bad thing, some might even call it a strategy. Casting doubt on players that one finds suspicious is pretty much the primary tool for playing the game.

What?
Maybe I'm not getting something here.... Can you clarify this.
Because... I don't see the 100% lynching record as a GOOD thing....
And Um... if it's 100%... how can you state that your "distractions" then have been effective in any way.
Like.... I'm just confused by that statement.
Distracting people to SAVE colonists from lynches... okay, sure. But that's very difficult to do unless you KNOW their alignments. Otherwise its just random shots in the dark. And well, so far we've HAD 100% Townies being lynched, so I don't see ANY examples of "Good" distractions being created here really.... unless it's some secret ones where Ordinary players are being sacrificed instead of Power roles, but even that's kinda crazy sounding....

So uh. Can you clarify that statement, especially in regards to what you want it to say about YOUR playing style? As... Okay, so you've defended "distracting and doubting people" the strategy as a whole... but are you claiming that You're doing that successfully? Because I dunno if that's the case.... Unless i'm missing something here.

[Pollux Oil]

Wait...this is it? I went away for the day and came back and..there are two new posts? And...less than half the people have voted?

(Unofficial count)

Captain Klutz (2) - CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, episodeofblonde
drainbead (2) - DeathbyIrony, atarus
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (2) - Parzival, Captain Klutz
Tragic (1) - diggitcamara

12 hours until the deadline...and less than half the people have voted. I understand the holiday season, but seriously! This is just bananas. This is just inviting the scum to swoop in at the last minute and lynch a townie.