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Post by Gir! on Dec 19, 2008 2:03:28 GMT -5
I can't swim!
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Dec 19, 2008 2:47:27 GMT -5
Ok.. and we thought it was crazy before.. We win when we kill ourselves?! ROFL.. I don't even know where to begin, but I agree with Hoopy that we should probably just ignore the win condition and continue to look for scum/pfks. But I do think we should analyze what the current win condition means to the game.. I just wish we knew what the scum WC is.. Anyone care to share?
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 10:44:53 GMT -5
I agree that we should just stick to the basic win condition as our ultimate goal. We seem to be moving (so far) linearly through a suite of possible win conditions. We haven't seen any repeats yet, but who knows if they're being applied randomly or if they'll start repeating, if they will repeat in the same order, whether they'll continue to change if MiteyMouse dies, etc. Way too many variables to try and manage for. We might get unlucky and end up inadvertently triggering a scum or PFK win condition at the wrong time, but we might get lucky and inadvertently sabotage a scum or PFK win condition at just the right time too. Well hang on. What if we try to use this win con? I mean, so far the only non-town that's died is mmouse. If we just keep killing town, and scum keeps killing town, we'd win twice as fast. Sure it would be 'weird', but that's no reason to reject something. And of course, if necessary...we could always start using the modkill, though I hesitate to bring that up. I just think it would be easier than hunting out the scum. And for that matter, we'll go down in history when it happens! We'll be the first town to win by suicide. I say, let's traverse into the wild blue yonder. And it starts by: Vote Mitey Mousethat.
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Post by Rysto on Dec 19, 2008 11:06:58 GMT -5
And if scum start killing scum?
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 11:10:38 GMT -5
And if scum start killing scum? Why should it matter? We have no idea what the scum win condition is. If the scum still win normally, they should be killing town. If they don't, ...we can find that out tonight. I guess. Hm.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Dec 19, 2008 11:19:06 GMT -5
We'll be the first town to win by suicide. I say, let's traverse into the wild blue yonder. And it starts by: Vote Mitey Mousethat. What makes you so sure Mitey Mouse is town?
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 12:30:25 GMT -5
We'll be the first town to win by suicide. I say, let's traverse into the wild blue yonder. And it starts by: Vote Mitey Mousethat. What makes you so sure Mitey Mouse is town? ...I'm not. Hang on, I just realized... Unvote Mitey MouseIt would be pointless to lynch her in an attempt to freeze the win con, since I can do that myself. Okay, now, the question is who is the most townie. To me, me, but I need to be alive to freeze the win con. So...I'm thinking Vote FlyingLakituofDoombecause he's seemed to be very helpful for the town, but not prescient. Plus, I think a scum or PFK would not have blanked like he did when he slipped about the power role.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Dec 19, 2008 12:57:31 GMT -5
You're making two assumptions here that I don't think you can make:
1) You have the power to freeze the win condition via block. If MiteyMouse is telling the truth and this power continues after her death, why would a blocker stop it? I would think death would be a more powerful deterrant than blocking.
2) Even if you do have the power to stop the win condition change, you assume that scum won't take you out and free up the win condition change again, after we've proceeded to lynch more townies.
Really, I think this scheme is more harebrained than your last one, and that's saying something.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 19, 2008 13:11:42 GMT -5
Methinks you are off on your own wavelength in this game, pede.
Of all the win conditions we've seen so far, this is the one you want to freeze us onto? The town likely makes up the majority of the players, even accounting for the townies that have already died. Yes, that means our chances of hitting town with a target are better, but there's a whole bunch of us that will have to die.
Also, even if we ignore whatever may or may not be happening with the scum and pfk win conditions, this strategizing is taking place where scum can see it and participate in the conversation (for the sake of healthy paranoia I'm operating on the assumption that we do have some scum with us here), derail the conversation, and potentially manipulate who gets targeted with their perfect information of who is not scum.
Vote pedescribe[/color]
I don't trust you, your ideas have made little to no sense, and your acting imho very recklessly for a townie.
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 13:53:58 GMT -5
Methinks you are off on your own wavelength in this game, pede. Of all the win conditions we've seen so far, this is the one you want to freeze us onto? The town likely makes up the majority of the players, even accounting for the townies that have already died. Yes, that means our chances of hitting town with a target are better, but there's a whole bunch of us that will have to die. Also, even if we ignore whatever may or may not be happening with the scum and pfk win conditions, this strategizing is taking place where scum can see it and participate in the conversation (for the sake of healthy paranoia I'm operating on the assumption that we do have some scum with us here), derail the conversation, and potentially manipulate who gets targeted with their perfect information of who is not scum. Vote pedescribe[/color] I don't trust you, your ideas have made little to no sense, and your acting imho very recklessly for a townie. [/quote] Wait...so you want to lynch me because I'm being reckless? Why? I don't have any information I could give up. I'm not preventing any of you from discussing anything else, and in fact I'd be fine if you were to ignore me. And if I were scum, why would I do such reckless things? A scum would have no reason to draw attention to himself for a stupid failed gambit, nor would he have a good reason to go off on his own win scheme. If I were scum, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. And Hoopy: I don't believe Mitey Mouse when she says her win con changes still happen after she dies. As such, the idea that scum will take me out doesn't bother me, because you all can just lynch her afterwords and move on with the plan. Of course, the chances that you will follow such a plan are practically nil, so: I'll hold off on freezing the win con today again. Okay? And I'll still be looking for scum. But! I think that, if that con comes around again, we really ought to think about it. It could work.
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 13:54:27 GMT -5
I should probably unvote FLoD too.
Unvote FLoD
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 19, 2008 14:21:49 GMT -5
Methinks you are off on your own wavelength in this game, pede. Of all the win conditions we've seen so far, this is the one you want to freeze us onto? The town likely makes up the majority of the players, even accounting for the townies that have already died. Yes, that means our chances of hitting town with a target are better, but there's a whole bunch of us that will have to die. Also, even if we ignore whatever may or may not be happening with the scum and pfk win conditions, this strategizing is taking place where scum can see it and participate in the conversation (for the sake of healthy paranoia I'm operating on the assumption that we do have some scum with us here), derail the conversation, and potentially manipulate who gets targeted with their perfect information of who is not scum. Vote pedescribe[/color] I don't trust you, your ideas have made little to no sense, and your acting imho very recklessly for a townie. [/quote] Wait...so you want to lynch me because I'm being reckless? Why? I don't have any information I could give up. I'm not preventing any of you from discussing anything else, and in fact I'd be fine if you were to ignore me. And if I were scum, why would I do such reckless things? A scum would have no reason to draw attention to himself for a stupid failed gambit, nor would he have a good reason to go off on his own win scheme. If I were scum, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. And Hoopy: I don't believe Mitey Mouse when she says her win con changes still happen after she dies. As such, the idea that scum will take me out doesn't bother me, because you all can just lynch her afterwords and move on with the plan. Of course, the chances that you will follow such a plan are practically nil, so: I'll hold off on freezing the win con today again. Okay? And I'll still be looking for scum. But! I think that, if that con comes around again, we really ought to think about it. It could work.[/quote] The recklessness is just one of a host of pings I've gotten from you over the past couple of Days. "But scum wouldn't do that..." doesn't really fly as an excuse either. And if you're a townie, and you want us to lynch townies, you can see my vote for you as a win-win.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Dec 19, 2008 14:53:24 GMT -5
If pedescribe really is a roleblocker, he could have blocked MiteyMouse last Night and confirmed at least his powers.
vote pedescribe
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Dec 19, 2008 15:55:22 GMT -5
If pedescribe really is a roleblocker, he could have blocked MiteyMouse last Night and confirmed at least his powers. vote pedescribeI think it was fairly clear that the general sentiment was for him not to do that, so that we could see if Mitey Mouse's weather changes affected the win condition directly. Since we have a completely new condition (and the worst one of all so far, IMO) and the same weather, their obviously different mechanics. Had pedescribe blocked her, we wouldn't have known this. So your reasoning is bogus.
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 16:06:46 GMT -5
Wait...so you want to lynch me because I'm being reckless? Why? I don't have any information I could give up. I'm not preventing any of you from discussing anything else, and in fact I'd be fine if you were to ignore me. And if I were scum, why would I do such reckless things? A scum would have no reason to draw attention to himself for a stupid failed gambit, nor would he have a good reason to go off on his own win scheme. If I were scum, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. And Hoopy: I don't believe Mitey Mouse when she says her win con changes still happen after she dies. As such, the idea that scum will take me out doesn't bother me, because you all can just lynch her afterwords and move on with the plan. Of course, the chances that you will follow such a plan are practically nil, so: I'll hold off on freezing the win con today again. Okay? And I'll still be looking for scum. But! I think that, if that con comes around again, we really ought to think about it. It could work. The recklessness is just one of a host of pings I've gotten from you over the past couple of Days. "But scum wouldn't do that..." doesn't really fly as an excuse either. And if you're a townie, and you want us to lynch townies, you can see my vote for you as a win-win. Okay, what other pings have you had. And what possible scum motivation for recklessness is there. All you're saying is 'you're annoying', not 'you're scummy'.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Dec 19, 2008 16:08:40 GMT -5
I think it was fairly clear that the general sentiment was for him not to do that, so that we could see if Mitey Mouse's weather changes affected the win condition directly. Since we have a completely new condition (and the worst one of all so far, IMO) and the same weather, their obviously different mechanics. Had pedescribe blocked her, we wouldn't have known this. Ah, I missed that part because I was on the road. Did Idle answer my question about how he handles my scum kills? Because my reasoning that a roleblocker would be, as a whole, anti-town would be true if it turns out that the scum kill "collectively" without assigning someone to be the designated murderer.
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 16:08:41 GMT -5
If pedescribe really is a roleblocker, he could have blocked MiteyMouse last Night and confirmed at least his powers. vote pedescribeNot only what Hoopy said, but also, no one wanted me to do so because the win condition was the worst one so far (though this one is undoubtedly worse still unless everyone was willing to follow me but they aren't so I won't press the issue). You are grasping for straws, I think. Add that to your general flying under the radar and that's enough to Vote DBI
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 16:11:01 GMT -5
I think it was fairly clear that the general sentiment was for him not to do that, so that we could see if Mitey Mouse's weather changes affected the win condition directly. Since we have a completely new condition (and the worst one of all so far, IMO) and the same weather, their obviously different mechanics. Had pedescribe blocked her, we wouldn't have known this. Ah, I missed that part because I was on the road. Did Idle answer my question about how he handles my scum kills? Because my reasoning that a roleblocker would be, as a whole, anti-town would be true if it turns out that the scum kill "collectively" without assigning someone to be the designated murderer. Wait, what? Every time you seem to have an excuse. Even when you're back, though, you still don't post more than a one or two sentence 'I agree' sort of post. And Idle said the scum collectively kill. Currently, it would be anti-town of me to fire roleblocks randomly, which is why I have been inactive so far.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Dec 19, 2008 16:16:37 GMT -5
Pedescribe - 2 votes (Cometothedarkside, DBI) DBI - 1 vote (Pedescribe)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 19, 2008 16:36:02 GMT -5
I've been voting for DBI the majority of this game, and nothing has removed my suspicions there, and it does not fill me with warm fuzzies that she's now voting for you as well, pede, but I find it hysterical that you seem incredulous that I'd vote for you.
I doubt my vote will stay on you, pede but the signal-to-noise ratio that you're producing is not helping in any way that I can see right now.
You (allegedly) fake-role-claimed with no pressure on you at all, confused the hell out of everyone, and then doubled that confusion by (allegedly) coming clean with your "true" role. A role (if true and town-aligned) that would make you a big target for scum, yet you make it through both yesterDay and last Night while two more townies go down.
And then Today you advocate skipping merrily down a path that I don't think anyone in their right mind would try to follow in the context of this game, even this crazy game. We don't know that you're a role-blocker. We don't know that you're Town. We don't know who or what MiteyMouse is. We don't know what will or won't happen if you try and block her or if we lynch her or if she's Night killed or whatever.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 19, 2008 16:40:43 GMT -5
Did Idle answer my question about how he handles my scum kills? Because my reasoning that a roleblocker would be, as a whole, anti-town would be true if it turns out that the scum kill "collectively" without assigning someone to be the designated murderer. Bolding mine. My if this isn't a sloppy game. Role-blocking as a Town power could still be a balancing technique for the PFKs.
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Post by special on Dec 19, 2008 16:48:55 GMT -5
I think it was fairly clear that the general sentiment was for him not to do that, so that we could see if Mitey Mouse's weather changes affected the win condition directly. Since we have a completely new condition (and the worst one of all so far, IMO) and the same weather, their obviously different mechanics. Had pedescribe blocked her, we wouldn't have known this. Ah, I missed that part because I was on the road. Did Idle answer my question about how he handles my scum kills? Because my reasoning that a roleblocker would be, as a whole, anti-town would be true if it turns out that the scum kill "collectively" without assigning someone to be the designated murderer. "my scum kills" ?
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Post by special on Dec 19, 2008 16:58:45 GMT -5
I agree that we should just stick to the basic win condition as our ultimate goal. We seem to be moving (so far) linearly through a suite of possible win conditions. We haven't seen any repeats yet, but who knows if they're being applied randomly or if they'll start repeating, if they will repeat in the same order, whether they'll continue to change if MiteyMouse dies, etc. Way too many variables to try and manage for. We might get unlucky and end up inadvertently triggering a scum or PFK win condition at the wrong time, but we might get lucky and inadvertently sabotage a scum or PFK win condition at just the right time too. Well hang on. What if we try to use this win con? I mean, so far the only non-town that's died is mmouse. If we just keep killing town, and scum keeps killing town, we'd win twice as fast. Sure it would be 'weird', but that's no reason to reject something. And of course, if necessary...we could always start using the modkill, though I hesitate to bring that up. I just think it would be easier than hunting out the scum. And for that matter, we'll go down in history when it happens! We'll be the first town to win by suicide. I say, let's traverse into the wild blue yonder. And it starts by: Vote Mitey Mousethat. *blinks* *blinks again* OK, I was kidding when I suggested we win by suicide. A series of points: 1. We have no idea what the Scum Win Condition is. 2. We have no idea if the Win Condition might change even if Mitey is lynched or blocked. 3. We don't know Mitey is Town, so voting for he to kill Town might not work. 4. We don't know FLOD is Town, so (see #3) 5. If you really want to kill a Town, and you're claiming to be Town, shouldn't you vote for yourself? 6. Do you really want to freeze our win condition on committing suicide? Scum have much better knowledge as toy sides than we do. And, if they have an alignment investigator, they have a much smaller pool to search in than a Town alignment investigator. They're more likely to find Town and PFK and we are to find all the Town. 7. I think the thinking through plans is a great idea, but this one seems a bit odd. And it makes me suspicious after your double odd role claim yesterDay. 8. Your claim of 'scum wouldn't do this' is meaningless. Scum will do anything. 9. We are free to ingore you, but we don't know the ratio of Twon to Scum to PFK in here. We could be Scum heavy in here meaning they can swing the vote with you to kill off a Townie even if the rest of us don't agree with it.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Dec 19, 2008 17:24:26 GMT -5
I doubt my vote will stay on you, pede but the signal-to-noise ratio that you're producing is not helping in any way that I can see right now. You (allegedly) fake-role-claimed with no pressure on you at all, confused the hell out of everyone, and then doubled that confusion by (allegedly) coming clean with your "true" role. A role (if true and town-aligned) that would make you a big target for scum, yet you make it through both yesterDay and last Night while two more townies go down. And then Today you advocate skipping merrily down a path that I don't think anyone in their right mind would try to follow in the context of this game, even this crazy game. We don't know that you're a role-blocker. We don't know that you're Town. We don't know who or what MiteyMouse is. We don't know what will or won't happen if you try and block her or if we lynch her or if she's Night killed or whatever. For the first one, I was trying to help. I hadn't thought it through, true, and it was really stupid, true, but I wasn't trying to distract everyone or anything. If I had been, I would have done it a lot earlier. As for why I haven't been killed, it's probably because my powers are not very powerful. If the scum are mostly vanilla or passively powered, there's no reason for them to take me out--in fact, there's good reason for them not to take me out, since I could accidentally be hampering a townie power role. As for the second, I only advocated it because it could work. It could work if everyone was on board and we pushed towards it. But not everyone was on board, and I knew that they wouldn't. I just thought I'd float the idea across and see if it was evident to others. Apparently not. Seriously, though, I know that "scum would never do that" isn't a good argument, but think: if there's no scummy motivation, and there's a significant anti-scum motivation, what do you think the chances are? Blindly ignoring a rule that has proved problematic in the past doesn't make it constantly wrong.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Dec 19, 2008 18:58:12 GMT -5
Wow.. People and this would game is weird..
For the record. Since the win conditions have changed every single day so far, I propose we simply ignore them and play this game as any other mafia game.. To start killing town would be a horrible strategy.
Once again, I'll present a list of my highest suspects. This time I'll also cast a vote.
Pedescribe: - Has been making a lot of weird plays this game. Could be scummy, but then again, I don't really see how being openly confusing is a good strategy for scum. - Did you just actually suggest we start killing townies? And that we lock the win condition here? - Votes to lynch a claimed power role + Has claimed power role, not countered
DBI: - Seems to be remarkably unremarkable, has been all game IMO - "my scum kills"
Special Ed: - Got some votes earlier, but at the moment I can't remember why.. Care to share, Ed? If you remember, that is?
FCOD - Is still alive despite claiming power role
The rest: - Nothing out of the ordinary, and not too little out of the ordinary either
Right now I'm not sure which is the best lynch out of Pedescribe or DBI. I'll see what the rest of the day brings, but the scales are tipping towards pedescribe at least for now.
vote pedescribe
On question for all players:
Would you agree or disagree that the following statements can now be taken as fact regarding MiteyMouse.
- MiteyMouse (or someone on the same team) can change the weather - The weather is NOT directly tied to the win condition (or we would have the same WC again) - Mallow changes the weather - Mallow changes the win condition
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Post by The Real FCOD on Dec 19, 2008 19:07:13 GMT -5
What. the. fuck?!
You seriously suggest killing off the town? The only thing right now that's preventing me from voting you (pedescribe) is that I can't imagine a scum player would suggest such a thing.
Anyway, I am more than comfortable voting for DBI at this point. Between the skimming and lurking and toDay's possible slip she's the highest on my list right now.
Vote DBI
Chucara, I would agree with those four statements about Mitey/Mallow.
--FCOD
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Post by special on Dec 19, 2008 19:26:20 GMT -5
Special Ed: - Got some votes earlier, but at the moment I can't remember why.. Care to share, Ed? If you remember, that is? I gathered some suspicion in Day 1 for going after mole for his early vanilla claim. Then I got more suspicion for questioning story's defense of mole/shaggy and for being intimidated by story's skills of persuasion. Day 2, I got some heat for voting mmouseearly. Though some of that heat came from others who also voted mmouse early. I can't remember who exactly, was it you, pede? Day3, I took more heat, I think for voting peeker, but I was hardly the only one. I was just the first to suspect him, and did vote him eventually. I guess he never did understand why we were voting him until several real life days too late.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 19, 2008 19:28:40 GMT -5
I also agree with Chucara's Mallow-related observations.
I'm also a bit torn between keeping my vote on pede or switching to DBI once again.
Did anyone wake up with one of those spiny things? Both of them are acting crazy enough to have me a little worried about a bomber again, who might end up taking out zeriel (it was zeriel who had the spiny thing, right?) if we kill them.
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Post by special on Dec 19, 2008 19:32:09 GMT -5
Would you agree or disagree that the following statements can now be taken as fact regarding MiteyMouse. - MiteyMouse (or someone on the same team) can change the weather - The weather is NOT directly tied to the win condition (or we would have the same WC again) - Mallow changes the weather - Mallow changes the win condition I would agree with the 1st, and 3rd statement. I think the 2nd is still in question. They may still be slightly related, in that a change in the weather changes the win condition. We haven't seen the weather not change. As for the 4th. It's obviously stated that Mallow changes the win condition, but is it intentional or not? If it's not, then it's really more accurate to say that Idle is the one changing the win condition and attributing it to Mallow.
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Post by special on Dec 19, 2008 19:33:11 GMT -5
I also agree with Chucara's Mallow-related observations. I'm also a bit torn between keeping my vote on pede or switching to DBI once again. Did anyone wake up with one of those spiny things? Both of them are acting crazy enough to have me a little worried about a bomber again, who might end up taking out zeriel (it was zeriel who had the spiny thing, right?) if we kill them. I think it was Almost Human who had the spiny thing
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