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Post by sinjin on Jan 15, 2009 16:45:16 GMT -5
It really doesn't seem to make much difference at this point. There are 6 confirmed and 3 unconfirmed. If the roles really were distributed randomly chances are we have town in the scum roles for one night. Doesn't that mean that we get to lynch toDay and night kill toNight? So we lynch one of us three today, decide which one to Night kill tonight and it's either game over immediately or we lynch the last remaining unconfirmed tomorrow and win then. The only fly in the ointment is if one of the scum got my role. Doesn't sound like Mr. Blockey got it or he would have seen the implications and been on my case immediately. I don't think town really needs my power anymore except as a safety. So I think that a lynch of either me or Mr. Blockey would be a good move toDay. Of course I would prefer it be Mr. B. I'm sure I'm missing the obvious here somewhere and equally sure someone will point it out to me within 5 minutes of my posting this.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 15, 2009 17:50:02 GMT -5
Interesting thing: my mason role doesn't have to hammer, so it's possibler there are new roles introduced.
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Post by Almost Human on Jan 15, 2009 18:35:37 GMT -5
I'd like to say something sensible but my dad and I have just finished checking out his wine collection so I'm in no fit state.
Did you guys get pms saying who you were for this cycle cos i don't have one yet?
Bah - I'd best get down from this chair before i fall down. I'll check in again in the morning when everything's stopped moving!
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 18:41:53 GMT -5
No, I didn't get a PM. My new role arrived via a seemingly endless stream of hieroglyphically-tattooed little people.
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Post by Almost Human on Jan 15, 2009 19:03:23 GMT -5
No, I didn't get a PM. My new role arrived via a seemingly endless stream of hieroglyphically-tattooed little people. Damn - I wish I were drunk enough to believe that. I do have a really cool visual though. And hey - don't mock the drunk woman!
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 15, 2009 19:17:06 GMT -5
It really doesn't seem to make much difference at this point. There are 6 confirmed and 3 unconfirmed. If the roles really were distributed randomly chances are we have town in the scum roles for one night. Doesn't that mean that we get to lynch toDay and night kill toNight? So we lynch one of us three today, decide which one to Night kill tonight and it's either game over immediately or we lynch the last remaining unconfirmed tomorrow and win then. So we should definitely kill you then since we can't guarantee that townies have a kill and you could be a strongman scum.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 19:34:35 GMT -5
I'm not able to poke any holes in blockey's reasoning, though I think the chances that pre-castle scum are going to be controlling the scum kill toNight are slim.
Meta-gaming: The implication that this Day/Night cycle has on game balance seem frankly unquantifiable to me. How the hell could Idle balance for a random role redistribution using all of the roles we started with? Maybe if he hand-picked the roles that he would be randomly assigned to us, such that they were all pretty much balance-neutral, purposefully leaving out any that could influence the balance of outside of the Castle. That makes a lot of sense from where I'm sitting actually, and might indicate that we should do a mass-claim of the roles we drew toDay.
Hoopy has volunteered that he's a lone town mason...that's a pretty worthless power. I have a pretty worthless power too (within the constraints of the Castle at least), and I'm town again. Anyone else wanna fess up that they have a worthless-within-the-constraints-of-the-Castle power?
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 15, 2009 19:58:01 GMT -5
I went from vanilla town to vanilla town
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 15, 2009 20:13:14 GMT -5
I don't like this new change!
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 20:16:19 GMT -5
Ok, I can poke some (small) holes. There's really no reason (if we're all able to transcend this whole Castle chaos and see the longer term big picture) for the Confirmed not to just randomly kill any of the three of us toDay, and then make another random selection between the 2 that are left for the Night scum kill. And if we still haven't won by then, the remaining unconfirmed is then lynched.
Somewhere in there, Hoopy is probably going to die, but even without any further investigation results, I am not seeing any path to a scum win (aside from any game-stealing antics that may or may not be lurking in the Castle), and I'm not seeing any compelling reason for any sort of bickering between the three of us as to which one dies when. No one else is should be listening to anything we say anyway.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 15, 2009 20:20:45 GMT -5
If Sinjin is a strongman scum it'll go faster if she dies today, (since she's not one today). Just because there's a buffer doesn't mean we should optimize.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 15, 2009 20:21:14 GMT -5
also cookies is trying to poke holes because she's the other scum...
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 15, 2009 20:24:44 GMT -5
I'm thinking out loud here...please bear with me as I'm confused. So we are right now in different roles but, they are not important as we go back to our own tomorrow. If one of us dies than another living player takes our role right? But everyone else goes back to their old roles except for the person who was killed. So potentially, we could have an original Scum player in a Town role tomorrow or the other way around? This could be good for us...no?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 20:30:07 GMT -5
You're proposing that sinjin is scum yet assuming that she's being truthful about her role. You're the one pushing a selective agenda in a situation where the confirmed arguably don't need to expose themselves to the risk of having to deduce which one of us to choose at all.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 20:33:07 GMT -5
I'm thinking out loud here...please bear with me as I'm confused. So we are right now in different roles but, they are not important as we go back to our own tomorrow. By my understanding (though there are several outstanding questions waiting on Idle's return) this part sounds right. I don't think that part is correct, but I don't know if it can be resolved without some clarification.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 15, 2009 20:36:33 GMT -5
I'm thinking out loud here...please bear with me as I'm confused. So we are right now in different roles but, they are not important as we go back to our own tomorrow. If one of us dies than another living player takes our role right? But everyone else goes back to their old roles except for the person who was killed. So potentially, we could have an original Scum player in a Town role tomorrow or the other way around? This could be good for us...no? No, as I understand it, another living player doesn't take up 'your' role tomorrow if you are killed toDay. You and your previous role die if you die toDay. If person A has person B's role toDay and person A is lynched/night-killed during this cycle, then person B assumes his own role again Tomorrow. Person A and his original role are dead forever.
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 15, 2009 20:47:49 GMT -5
Ok...good thing I thought out loud as I had it completely backwards!
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 15, 2009 21:05:43 GMT -5
No, as I understand it, another living player doesn't take up 'your' role tomorrow if you are killed toDay. You and your previous role die if you die toDay. If person A has person B's role toDay and person A is lynched/night-killed during this cycle, then person B assumes his own role again Tomorrow. Person A and his original role are dead forever. And that's the way I understand it as well. Though, I think we need clarification from Idle (and I've asked all these in bold green) on what happens to person A upon death. Do they get their original alignment/role back or not? I think that plays a large part on if we no lynch or not. I don't want the possible unconfirmed townie yesterDay getting lynched as scum toDay and losing the game should town win. Doesn't seem fair. Nor do I want a scum as a townie dying toDay and remaining town and so win with town. And I also hope we find out what the original role was. If none of these situations apply, we might want to consider no lynch.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 15, 2009 22:13:38 GMT -5
So whoever the detective is (if any), if you were town yesterDay, keep yourself hidden well. Chances are scum, (if any former scum managed to keep scum) will kill me anyway because I'll pop right back as my detective self toMorrow. However, you will have an investigation, one that I wouldn't get since I'd be killed. Let me give myself a for that. Obviously it won't matter what the detective (if there is one toDay) does anyway, because he's only going to get a reading on the roles as they are toDay, which means nothing for toMorrow. The Detective is effectively useless this cycle. The only fly in the ointment is if one of the scum got my role. Doesn't sound like Mr. Blockey got it or he would have seen the implications and been on my case immediately. I don't think town really needs my power anymore except as a safety. So I think that a lynch of either me or Mr. Blockey would be a good move toDay. Of course I would prefer it be Mr. B. Actually, at this point your power is a liability, not an asset. I said it when Special Ed claimed lynch immunity and I'll say it again here: Lynch immunity for an otherwise vanilla is an anti-town power.Blockey could normally be scum. You could normally be town. You could both be scum trying to get cred. It doesn't matter. Your role does not help us. If you aren't scum, scum won't target you anyway, because you're in the unconfirmed pool first of all and they would waste a kill attempt if they even try. And there's no way they can swing a lynch of you without the confirmed going along with it. So you are, to put it bluntly, rather useless at this point. And if we are going to narrow the pool down by doing something with you, we have to kill you, since we can't reliably investigate you, until the night after this one. And since we won't be able to immediately kill you after toNight, and in order to have a night-kill of you go through we have to trust that whatever "scum" are out there to actually take you out, it's really better for all concerned if we lynch you. vote sinjin
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 15, 2009 22:38:23 GMT -5
For a player that is lynched/night killed, will we find out what their "original" role was or just their role for toDay? Just the role for ToDay. I am also parsing this as a contradiction. Please elaborate? The person who is lynched dies. Not the role. I don't know how to be any clearer than that. Let's say Bufftabby and MHaye were still in this game (as Yoshi and Mario respectively) and toDay, they switched (Bufftabby become Mario and MHaye become Yoshi--for a Day and Night). With the person dying (like it is in this game), killing Bufftabby would be Yoshi would die (and be gone when everything went back to normal). With the role dying, killing Bufftabby would mean Mario dies and when things went back to normal MHAYE would be the one dead and Bufftabby would still be alive because Yoshi would still be alive. Understand better? [/B]Will you stipulate whether or not some roles at play to day were not ever in play previously, as opposed to roles being returned to the game from the dead?[/color][/quote] I've already said that some roles that were already killed off may be in the game now...although no overly brand NEW roles have been made (some roles may not have the same powers or stipulations as before, but they remain the same). Like "it used to be" as in like it was in Day 1 or what? Because nothing seems like it "used to be" to me right now You (and everyone else) will get the role back you've had for the majority of this game (what you were just yesterDay). So if someone who changed alignments for this cycle dies, are they stuck with their new win condition upon death? (You imply that this isn't the case with the whole player dies, but not role, and toMorrow everyone reverts back, but it's not explicitly mentioned No. That's only if a side or role wins the game. Whoever dies toDay and toNight will win with their "old" role otherwise (because everything is going to be going back to normal the next Day, remember?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 15, 2009 22:40:13 GMT -5
Sinjin - 2 votes (misterblockey, Hoopy) Misterblockey - 1 vote (sinjin)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 22:50:23 GMT -5
That changes pretty much everything and really would've been useful clarification to have had some time ago.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 22:59:05 GMT -5
Nevermind. It took re-reading it 4 times, but I understand your attempt at clarification. I know better than to ask for clarification now.
Did anyone else read that as if every death in the Castle would result in a net 2 deaths once we switched back to norma? Because until I realized that he was explaining how things were NOT with this statement:
[quote=With the role dying, killing Bufftabby would mean Mario dies and when things went back to normal MHAYE would be the one dead and Bufftabby would still be alive because Yoshi would still be alive.[/quote]
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 23:00:25 GMT -5
Let's try that again...
Nevermind. It took re-reading it 4 times, but I understand your attempt at clarification. I know better than to ask for clarification now.
Did anyone else read that as if every death in the Castle would result in a net 2 deaths once we switched back to norma? Because that is what I was thinking until I realized that he was explaining how things were NOT with this statement:
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 15, 2009 23:18:38 GMT -5
I'm sounding kinda snarky and do not mean to, though you do have some inconvenient sleeping paterns for someone who isn't in Japan or New Zealand, Idle.
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Jan 16, 2009 0:11:24 GMT -5
Idle, you said that everyone was "randomly given a new alignment and role". Was each person randomly given an alignment or role different from their original role or was each person randomly given an alignment/role from the entire list, including their original?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 16, 2009 0:13:28 GMT -5
Nevermind. It took re-reading it 4 times, but I understand your attempt at clarification. I know better than to ask for clarification now. Did anyone else read that as if every death in the Castle would result in a net 2 deaths once we switched back to norma? Because until I realized that he was explaining how things were NOT with this statement Let me try once more...at an attempt to put it as simply as I can: The PERSON lynched toDay (and killed toNight) dies. The PERSON, the PERSON. The P-E-R-S-O-N. Not the role..the person. So whatever role those two people HAD (not have NOW) will die. When everything goes back to how it used to be and always was (from Day one to Day six), whatever roles THOSE PEOPLE had/are will die. If you kill MHAYE, then MHAYE MARIO will die..not (currently) MHAYE YOSHI. YOSHI will still be alive. If YOU are lynched, the role you are now will (or may) still exist (if it still existed before) and the person who had it will STILL BE ALIVE...however YOU and whatever role you have been all this time, will not be. I don't know how to make it clearer than that, hahahah. Tell me you get it now. Pretty please? With cherries on top?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 16, 2009 0:14:45 GMT -5
Idle, you said that everyone was "randomly given a new alignment and role". Was each person randomly given an alignment or role different from their original role or was each person randomly given an alignment/role from the entire list, including their original? Everyone was RANDOMLY GIVEN A ROLE period. Not nessacarily different from what they were before. It was all pure random..so yes, scum could have ended up as scum again and town could have ended up as town again.
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Post by Gir! on Jan 16, 2009 0:18:11 GMT -5
Damn. Here I was hoping for an easy one.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 16, 2009 1:02:32 GMT -5
vote sinjin[/color]
I'll be over here trying to think up what I want for my last meal, which will either be tonight or tomorrow it would seem.
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