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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:14:11 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 28, 2009 10:14:11 GMT -5
"Attention! Can I have everyone's attention please! Thank you. As you know, we have all gathered here today to try to rid our fair city of the Evil League of Evil." Applause"Yes, thank you. Now, if justice had a name, besides justice, it would be Captain Hammer. We are going to work very closely with him in order to root out the ELE. Now, if you all could just..." There is a loud bang, a blinding flash, and a cloud of smoke in the center of the hall. An small box has been left in the midst of the gathering."What is this?" The Mayor goes over to the package and touches it. Immediately, a song is heard emanating from the strange box.Bad Horse, Bad Horse Bad Horse, Bad Horse The evil league of evil is watching so beware Your plan to find and kill us, well you won't prevail It's really kinda pointless, so prepare to despair We're really bad, you're kinda sad (and Hammer's really not so rad) Bad Horse, Bad Horse Bad Horse, he's bad You think that you'll be able to find us all (yeah right) You're a bunch of stupid sheeple; wait until toNight! 'cause Bad Horse is pure evil, tonight he's gonna smite There will be blood and it won't be ours, so don't get cocky Signed: Bad Horse With that, the box erupts into a fireball and is gone."I....uh....well... Listen people! We can't let them scare us! Let's just get down to business and find someone to kill!" ------------------------ There are 20 players alive. The countdown will be triggered at 11 votes. Instant lynch will be triggered at 19 votes. Keeping with tradition, Day One will be slightly longer than the rest and will end next Tuesday at 3pm EST. I am thinking that we will have a 5/2 cycle, but please continue voting on your preference throughout toDay. Regarding rule 16: Since I didn't say substantive posts in the rules , I won't smite for only fluffy posts. But, I will give you a bad look! Come on people! Try to participate! Have fun! --FCOD
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:20:43 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Apr 28, 2009 10:20:43 GMT -5
Hi, everybody!
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:33:24 GMT -5
Post by zlw on Apr 28, 2009 10:33:24 GMT -5
SisC come on down, seems you have forgotten scum can talk during the Day as for concrete evidence of scumminess, it's more like plaster of paris. But hell what else do I get to go on this early. Only thing I can go off is how I played as scum, and that was play 1 in my small book o' plays. So until and unless something else plops down on my lap I think I'll start off the votes.
Vote Sister Coyote
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:44:59 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 28, 2009 10:44:59 GMT -5
ZLW - I appreciate the thought, I really do, but when I made the post in Night Zero about voting RoOsH for making my head hurt I really had forgotten about Day talk.
But I think we should be looking for Scum, rather than voting on plaster-of-paris reasons. Kat! smudged him for it in the Night 0 thread, but I find RoOsH's ignorance of the rules curious. Multiple games notwithstanding.
Someone more experienced - is skimming really a scum tell?
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:45:10 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 10:45:10 GMT -5
zlw, can you explain why forgetting that scum can Day talk is something that a scum would do?
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:48:54 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Apr 28, 2009 10:48:54 GMT -5
ZLW - I appreciate the thought, I really do, but when I made the post in Night Zero about voting RoOsH for making my head hurt I really had forgotten about Day talk. But I think we should be looking for Scum, rather than voting on plaster-of-paris reasons. Kat! smudged him for it in the Night 0 thread, but I find RoOsH's ignorance of the rules curious. Multiple games notwithstanding. Someone more experienced - is skimming really a scum tell? Like every scum tell the answer is, "sometimes" and "it depends"
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 10:56:10 GMT -5
Post by zlw on Apr 28, 2009 10:56:10 GMT -5
zlw, can you explain why forgetting that scum can Day talk is something that a scum would do? Well it is based on my first playing as scum. Play dumb as to what scum can and cannot do. Like I said not concrete, but something.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:02:01 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 28, 2009 11:02:01 GMT -5
zlw, can you explain why forgetting that scum can Day talk is something that a scum would do? See, this is what I don't understand either. It seems to me that ZLW is accusing me of lying and hoping to get me under lynch the liar, since Town really shouldn't lie unless we have a very good reason to do so. Not that I can think of Town having a good reason to lie without being a power role. It also seems to me that Scum wouldn't comment on the fact that they'd made an error, preferring to let everyone "forget" the post where they'd erred. I could be wrong about that, of course; maybe there'd be some reason for drawing attention to one's mistake. I can't think of any, though.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:02:53 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 28, 2009 11:02:53 GMT -5
NETA: thanks, NAF, that's pretty much what I thought.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:11:12 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 11:11:12 GMT -5
Ok, after carefully thinking about my role, I've decided it's in the Town's interest that I make a partial claim.
I think I may be susceptible recruitment.
The details in my role are not clear. I won't explain exactly why, in case those details make it easier for me to be recruited. I am hoping that another player has the means to protect me from recruitment. Yes, this means I'll probably have to be lynched before the end game.
I am not certain of the alignment I'll appear to investigators.
I win when all the non-Town roles are dead, but some of my role's description make it seem less than certain that I appear to be Town to investigators. This fits in with my susceptibility. Investigators are welcome to look at me, but given these two points, you're better off choosing someone else.
I can self-protect myself from Night kills.
Yay! At least I'm likely to survive Night One. But my self protection is not 100%. Obviously, I'm not going to disclose the mechanism that determines if it is successful or not.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:11:33 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 11:11:33 GMT -5
You may wonder why I bother to make a partial claim instead of simply keeping quiet. I do so because I am currently on the Town side and disclosing all this both makes it easier for the Town to win and discourages the scum from trying to recruit me (and thus I stay Town).
Since I'm unlikely to be Night-killed, I should be lynched before the end game. And before we're at lynch or lose, because lynching me will be a mislynch. Actually, the only reason I can think of to not lynch me immediately is that I may be wrong about being susceptible to recruitment and we'd be lynching a pro-Town player that the scum can't easily kill.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:14:26 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 11:14:26 GMT -5
zlw, can you explain why forgetting that scum can Day talk is something that a scum would do? Well it is based on my first playing as scum. Play dumb as to what scum can and cannot do. Like I said not concrete, but something. I don't find this to be a convincing reason to vote for someone at all.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:18:41 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Apr 28, 2009 11:18:41 GMT -5
I want to post this Pleo post from Night zero, especially since Pleo has decided to claim almost instantaneously.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:22:32 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Apr 28, 2009 11:22:32 GMT -5
NETA: And by claiming in the first place, and given what he's claimed he's opened up a swimming pool sized container of WIFOM for us to wallow in.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:31:46 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Apr 28, 2009 11:31:46 GMT -5
Ok, after carefully thinking about my role, I've decided it's in the Town's interest that I make a partial claim. I think I may be susceptible recruitment.The details in my role are not clear. I won't explain exactly why, in case those details make it easier for me to be recruited. I am hoping that another player has the means to protect me from recruitment. Yes, this means I'll probably have to be lynched before the end game. I am not certain of the alignment I'll appear to investigators.I win when all the non-Town roles are dead, but some of my role's description make it seem less than certain that I appear to be Town to investigators. This fits in with my susceptibility. Investigators are welcome to look at me, but given these two points, you're better off choosing someone else. I can self-protect myself from Night kills.Yay! At least I'm likely to survive Night One. But my self protection is not 100%. Obviously, I'm not going to disclose the mechanism that determines if it is successful or not. Ok, well good. I don't actually know what to do with this information, but...thanks?
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:36:12 GMT -5
Post by zlw on Apr 28, 2009 11:36:12 GMT -5
That's fine Pleonast, I find most reasons to lynch someone Day 1 to be weak as hell. Short of a player coming out saying "I'm scum" the best you can go on is a hunch, if that results in a mislynch it is still better than going random and getting the same mislynch.
It's not like my vote is an anchor dragging SisC down, it was simply a hunch that can be taken right away if something better comes along. Co-operation amongst town is the key in this game right? I stated my case, she answered, you stood up and said it was flimsy as well. If I feel something more cement I will move my vote.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 11:47:10 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Apr 28, 2009 11:47:10 GMT -5
At least we have something semi-tangible to chat about during this early part of Day One. (yay! Less random voting, Less bitching about how much Day One sucks).
My views: 1) I took a critical eye to Roosh's suggestion of a 12 hour Night during Night Zero. In my mind, I see the plausibility* of a scummy Roosh taking an overtly pro-Town stance in an effort to appear pro-Town. (Full disclosure, I hadn't fully absorbed the rules yet at that point either so the Day Talking scum fact hadn't been factored into my thinking). Anyway, it struck me as something scum would do since it gives the appearance of being anti-Scum. I don't really know what to do with the revelation that the idea (12 hour Night) is actually very much anti-Town due to the Day Talking of Scum. Assigning motivation to Roosh in this context is very difficult since a) I had already started joking around with the length of Day and Night poll and b) I don't know if Roosh was or was not knowledgeable about Day Talking scum when he made his 12 hour Night suggestion. Anyway, the suggestion of a 12 hour Night caught my eye so I'm documenting those thoughts here. *plausibility is NOT PROOF!
2) Sister Coyote then took Roosh's 12 hour suggestion as a sign of Townness, which confused me. As many of you know, I'm often found with evidence of Townness that gets shot down with cries of "Since 'scum would never do that,' scum will do that!"... blah blah blah. So now I need to make a very important distinction (digression) between pro-Town actions and "stuff scum would not do." Actions that put scum AT RISK for little to no benefit fall into the category of "stuff scum would not do" that I find as valid evidence* of townness. However, actions that are merely pro-Town are of course "things scum would very much want to do to look like Town." In other words, Roosh's 12 hour Night suggestion does not threaten to expose scum and therefore can not be taken as evidence of Townness (end digression). So the question is, why did Sister Coyote take Roosh's statement as an indicator of Townness? I see a certain lack of paranoia on the part of Sister Coyote, which troubles me. * Evidence is NOT PROOF
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Merestil Haye
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[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 12:10:19 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 28, 2009 12:10:19 GMT -5
My usual reminder.
Grudges Are Bad, people. Holding grudges from previous games can cause you to decide to go after someone who betrayed you in a previous game, only to find that the player you hounded to death was the Player They most wanted to find.
Don't hold grudges.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 12:11:38 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Apr 28, 2009 12:11:38 GMT -5
Random speculation: Based on the Musical, I'm betting that the "recruitment" is the subject of Dr. Horrible's alignment. At the outset of the Musical, Dr. Horrible is not a member of the Evil League of Evil, but is trying to attain membership. I don't know whether this makes Dr. Horrible initially town or Third Party (I'm guessing Third Party). I do think Dr. Horrible has powers and possibly needs to kill someone (annoying Hammer dude?) to gain entry into the ELE. Or possibly the laundry love interest's death puts Dr. Horrible into the ELE. Anyway, that's my guess at this early stage.
On Pleonast: I'm having trouble figuring out the pro-Town motivation for his action. Clearly Pleonast role-claimed early since it helps his team, I'm just trying to figure out how this effect could possibly help Town. Anyone who is nightkill resistant should keep that information secret. Pleonast could have easily stated his claim and left out the part of being nightkill resistant. The only people I can see claiming to be nightkill resistant are people who are NOT night kill resistant. Not that that gives an indication of Pleonast's alignment.
I do agree with Pleonast's request that he not be investigated. Pleonast has flat out told us he needs to be lynched. Investigating and lynching the same person is a waste of resources. To hedge this concession, I'm inclined to get rid of Pleonast sooner rather than later.
If we are certainly going to lynch Pleonast, then I see little reason to wait. Pleonast has flat out told us that he needs to be lynched, which puts us on the spot since scum now have little reason to kill Pleonast for us. The problem is we can't discern whether the lack of kill is due to Pleonast's likely lynch or Pleonast's Evil League of Evil status. I would like to lynch Pleonast on Day Two.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 12:12:38 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Apr 28, 2009 12:12:38 GMT -5
At least we have something semi-tangible to chat about during this early part of Day One. (yay! Less random voting, Less bitching about how much Day One sucks). My views: 1) I took a critical eye to Roosh's suggestion of a 12 hour Night during Night Zero. In my mind, I see the plausibility* of a scummy Roosh taking an overtly pro-Town stance in an effort to appear pro-Town. (Full disclosure, I hadn't fully absorbed the rules yet at that point either so the Day Talking scum fact hadn't been factored into my thinking). Anyway, it struck me as something scum would do since it gives the appearance of being anti-Scum. I don't really know what to do with the revelation that the idea (12 hour Night) is actually very much anti-Town due to the Day Talking of Scum. Assigning motivation to Roosh in this context is very difficult since a) I had already started joking around with the length of Day and Night poll and b) I don't know if Roosh was or was not knowledgeable about Day Talking scum when he made his 12 hour Night suggestion. Anyway, the suggestion of a 12 hour Night caught my eye so I'm documenting those thoughts here. *plausibility is NOT PROOF! 2) Sister Coyote then took Roosh's 12 hour suggestion as a sign of Townness, which confused me. As many of you know, I'm often found with evidence of Townness that gets shot down with cries of "Since 'scum would never do that,' scum will do that!"... blah blah blah. So now I need to make a very important distinction (digression) between pro-Town actions and "stuff scum would not do." Actions that put scum AT RISK for little to no benefit fall into the category of "stuff scum would not do" that I find as valid evidence* of townness. However, actions that are merely pro-Town are of course "things scum would very much want to do to look like Town." In other words, Roosh's 12 hour Night suggestion does not threaten to expose scum and therefore can not be taken as evidence of Townness (end digression). So the question is, why did Sister Coyote take Roosh's statement as an indicator of Townness? I see a certain lack of paranoia on the part of Sister Coyote, which troubles me. * Evidence is NOT PROOF Remember when we used to fight all the time sach? I miss those days. Now you have reduced me to using +1. I need to actually read Night 0 it seems. I missed FCoD saying that it counted.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 12:25:22 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Apr 28, 2009 12:25:22 GMT -5
Remember when we used to fight all the time sach? I miss those days. Now you have reduced me to using +1. Uh, you mean when you were scum? And that other time you were scum? Have we ever fought while on the same side? And, uh, did you forget that I determined you were a Terminator because you were being nice to me?
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 12:27:01 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Apr 28, 2009 12:27:01 GMT -5
Remember when we used to fight all the time sach? I miss those days. Now you have reduced me to using +1. Uh, you mean when you were scum? And that other time you were scum? Have we ever fought while on the same side? And, uh, did you forget that I determined you were a Terminator because you were being nice to me? I was just pissed because you stole my "scum would never do that" bit. I just posted the same thing on Giraffe boards.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 12:34:23 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 28, 2009 12:34:23 GMT -5
In other words, Roosh's 12 hour Night suggestion does not threaten to expose scum and therefore can not be taken as evidence of Townness (end digression). So the question is, why did Sister Coyote take Roosh's statement as an indicator of Townness? I see a certain lack of paranoia on the part of Sister Coyote, which troubles me. * Evidence is NOT PROOF I'm happy to explain my thinking, particularly since it's fairly simple: Assuming (as I was) that Scum can't speak to each other during the Day, longer Days and shorter Nights are better for Town. If Scum only has 12 hours to plan and make their move, there's more chance that one or more of them won't be able to log on before the end of Night, that they won't have decided before deadline, etc. That said, my revocation of vote for pro-Town action doesn't mean I think RoOsH is Town, just that I thought that asking for short nights was a pro-Town action.
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Natlaw
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 13:21:52 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Apr 28, 2009 13:21:52 GMT -5
Random speculation: Based on the Musical, I'm betting that the "recruitment" is the subject of Dr. Horrible's alignment. That was my best guess about the recruitment part as well. And the trigger would (at least story-wise) be the love interest (Penny iirc). Depending on how she would die Dr. Horrible joins the Evil League of Evil or not. Captain Hammer as a vigilante killing her by mistake for example. The direct motivation seems to me to be not the target of a kill from either side. Scum not because 1) they might recruit him 2) town might lynch him anyway and 3) his claim he cannot be Night killed for sure. Pleonast on why Town won't: How does it discourage scum? How does it help town to win (scum kill probably won't be foiled be your protection and it fixes a lynch since we can't be sure you are town or recruited or never were from the start)? So my tentative conclusion is that Pleonast is Dr. Horrible. Color-wise, I don't see him as town, but that could have been given a twist. Dr. Horrible had to kill someone to join the League, so worst case he is a serial killer. Best case he can be saved by Penny (or her death by the hands of Evil). Should we lynch him? If we have a vigilante, he could try to kill him unless the NK protection claim is true and works against it.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 13:41:07 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Apr 28, 2009 13:41:07 GMT -5
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 13:58:45 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 28, 2009 13:58:45 GMT -5
I claimed because I have a better chance of winning by being lynched while I'm on the Town side. Telling everyone I could be recruited makes me an unappetizing target for recruitment since I'm not going to survive to the end game. Scum won't recruit someone who's on the short list for lynching. Also note that I am hoping someone can protect me from recruitment.
I stated that I'm resistant to Night kills because otherwise a Vig might waste a shot at getting scum. If a Vig decides to try to kill me anyway, then either he succeeds (unlikely) and I'm a dead Townie (good for me), or he fails (likely) and I get partial confirmation (also good for me). At least any Vig can make that choice with additional information now.
I feel anti-Town roles (like mine) should claim as early as possible. Why should I wait until an investigator gets a non-Town return on me or a Vig fails to kill me? It's better that the Town get the information early so that our power roles can act with more information. And if I am a role that can be recruited, I've severely reduced the options the scum have.
My self protection extends to all Night kills, including scum. This is the primary risk of lynching me, because of the obvious advantages to the Town if a night-kill-resistant pro-Town player survives to end game. I think that's why my role has such drawbacks.
Once my lynch becomes inevitable, I'll post my role pm verbatim.
And a final note: I have absolutely no knowledge about the color of this game, other than what the moderator has posted (plus my pm). I have never heard of Dr Horrible or any other characters.
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 14:11:34 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Apr 28, 2009 14:11:34 GMT -5
And a final note: I have absolutely no knowledge about the color of this game, other than what the moderator has posted (plus my pm). I have never heard of Dr Horrible or any other characters. You should take a look, it's only about an hour long and it's pretty good. See the link in the post above yours.
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Total Ullz
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 14:14:16 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Apr 28, 2009 14:14:16 GMT -5
And a final note: I have absolutely no knowledge about the color of this game, other than what the moderator has posted (plus my pm). I have never heard of Dr Horrible or any other characters. You and me both! I felt so alone for a while [yes, NAF - I'll take a look if you don't comment on the Giraffe-game in here anymore ] What I don't get is why didn't you ask the mod about the things you're so unsure of in your PM?
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Natlaw
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 14:25:40 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Apr 28, 2009 14:25:40 GMT -5
I can self-protect myself from Night kills. Can you choose to not self-protect or is it a passive skill? I stated that I'm resistant to Night kills because otherwise a Vig might waste a shot at getting scum. If a Vig decides to try to kill me anyway, then either he succeeds (unlikely) and I'm a dead Townie (good for me), or he fails (likely) and I get partial confirmation (also good for me). At least any Vig can make that choice with additional information now. I do see your argument why it is pro-town to claim, but if we must lynch you, it would make you the obvious vigilante kill. And not a waste of it if it succeeded. I'm of the opinion that extra death, even well intentioned vigilante ones, hurt town. There is the possible information gain, but that is usually in combination with more complete vote records. Of course that is with the assumption we have a vigilante and it wouldn't have to be right away (but before lynch or lose, as you mentioned, if you cannot be confirmed).
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Day One
Apr 28, 2009 14:28:17 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Apr 28, 2009 14:28:17 GMT -5
Ok, seriously. Those of you who haven't yet watched should be ashamed.
Let me know via PM if hulu doesn't work for you.
--FCOD
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