Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 12, 2009 1:00:53 GMT -5
Vote count
3 SisterCoyote (metallicsquink #366, Inner Stickler, texcat #373)
1 texcat (MHaye #385)
As for the PM's - I just copy/pasted the ones from MiteyMouse's game. She put in one of her first posts in her game - so you can all see them there.
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 12, 2009 2:04:28 GMT -5
Day 4 ended and by now the Town no longer had a Cop.
SisterCoyote, aka Town Cop, has been lynched
Night 4 will end Monday July 13 10 PM Danish Time
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Post by BillMc on Jul 12, 2009 9:29:53 GMT -5
Mini Crazy indeed!
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 13, 2009 9:55:54 GMT -5
I'm going away and will for a Day and Night leave you with Bufftabby. I'm here to begin Day 5 tonight (and then I'm off to Paris ).
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 13, 2009 10:01:03 GMT -5
I'm jealous! Have fun!
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 13, 2009 14:52:17 GMT -5
I will!! I always have fun
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jul 13, 2009 14:56:28 GMT -5
Sounds like fun! Enjoy.
--FCOD
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 13, 2009 15:07:29 GMT -5
Day 5 had now begun and...
There is a dead body!! So very dead indeed!!
Say hello to the ghost that once was:
Inner Stickler, aka Town Doc, killed by scum in the Night
Day 5 will end Wednesday, July 15 10 PM Danish Time
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jul 13, 2009 15:09:00 GMT -5
OH SNAP
WHO'S YOUR DADDY NOW
::scum ghost victory dance:: --FCOD
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 13, 2009 15:10:56 GMT -5
OH SNAP
WHO'S YOUR DADDY NOW
::scum ghost victory dance:: --FCOD Did the victory dance come with a pole?? Just asking...
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jul 13, 2009 15:21:33 GMT -5
LOL, no I am not a stripper.
I am going to host a mini three clan game after this one ends. Go here to sign up!
--FCOD
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 13, 2009 16:59:44 GMT -5
Bye Total. Have a good time in Paris, and you can regale us with risqué stories when you get back. Meanwhile, I have to decide whether I think Metallicsquink or Texcat is the surviving Mafiate. More thread reading.
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 13, 2009 17:05:38 GMT -5
And I have to decide between texcat and MHaye. Should be an interesting Day. I thought it might come to this and I've been trying to think about who to vote for and I just can't come up with a good case for one versus the other. I hate losing so I know I'll beat myself up over this for days!!
I'm not scum, by the way. Maybe if I just keep repeating it, someone will believe me.
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Post by texcat on Jul 13, 2009 19:28:14 GMT -5
Vote: MHaye
This should not be a surprise to anyone -- I made up my mind yesterday.
And if it turns out to be Squink, my hat is off to her for a game very well-played.
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 14, 2009 7:03:40 GMT -5
For starters, I am suspicious that FCOD would single texcat out as a person he investigated and who came back Town, especially considering how easy it was for us to lynch him. I think he knew what was coming and wanted to protect the remaining scum after he was gone. Also, texcat didn’t contribute much at all to the discussion of lynching FCOD and was the last to vote besides FCOD himself. At that point, she could vote for FCOD without looking suspicious or really making much of a difference since the prior four votes solidified the vote anyway. On a side note, these are the same reasons I originally voted for her on Day 4 in my post 345.
texcat was also the first to bring up the idea of SisterCoyote and FCOD coming up with the whole false claim plot (post 353).
Then in post 373, she says “I am definitely uncomfortable with the lack of night kill last night. But it may have just been a oops. The night was extended 12 hours, perhaps because of the oops.” I’m sure that TL would have checked with the scum about a NK if no PMs were getting through. I can’t imagine the mod would just let that pass without checking since a NK is so important to the scum.
As for Mhaye, I’m suspicious of the late Day 4 discussion of lynching SisterCoyote. I just don’t know what took so long and so again we were in a pressured situation and I was left to make a decision about lynching SisterCoyote or a no-lynch. Also, in post 383, Mhaye says “On the other hand, if SC is the Cop, if the Mafia roleblocks and kills IS, then SC gets an investigation. Presumably she'll realise that she should investigate one of the two unknowns (as IS is confirmed already).” This doesn’t make sense to me. I would think SisterCoyote would have been roleblocked, IS would have been killed and then we would be a similar situation except with SisterCoyote here to weigh in on a vote. But I’m not sure what Mhaye would have gained by this situation. As a scum, I think it’s much easier if there are only three of us left which brings me back to texcat.
Vote: texcat
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 14, 2009 7:07:22 GMT -5
Vote: MHayeThis should not be a surprise to anyone -- I made up my mind yesterday. And if it turns out to be Squink, my hat is off to her for a game very well-played. Can you give me some reasons to vote for MHaye?
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 14, 2009 7:08:29 GMT -5
I should clarify: can you elaborate on why you voted for MHaye? I'm not completely convinced that either of you is scum so I'd be interested to know why you think MHaye is scum.
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Post by texcat on Jul 14, 2009 8:28:37 GMT -5
For starters, I am suspicious that FCOD would single texcat out as a person he investigated and who came back Town, especially considering how easy it was for us to lynch him. This is just wrong. First FCOD investigated and cleared you: Crap I thought today was Tuesday. I would have claimed a lot sooner. I didn't vote for squink because I know he's town. I know this because I'm the cop and he was my target last night.There it is. --FCOD I think FCOD cleared both of us because he thought he could sway our votes -- he was fighting for his life.
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 14, 2009 9:27:38 GMT -5
When I said "singled out" I meant that he picked you specifically. I know he picked me as well but that was clearly in an effort to get me to believe his claim since it was just he and I online at the end of Day 2.
I said this in my post 345 as well when I voted for you on Day 4.
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Post by bufftabby on Jul 14, 2009 13:14:41 GMT -5
Official Vote Count 1 Mhaye (texcat 403) 1 texcat (metallic squink 404) Day will end in 25.75 hours.[/color]
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Post by texcat on Jul 14, 2009 19:44:33 GMT -5
I should clarify: can you elaborate on why you voted for MHaye? I'm not completely convinced that either of you is scum so I'd be interested to know why you think MHaye is scum. I voted for MHaye because I think he is scummier (Is that really a word?) than you. It seems like he never votes until the last minute -- which I think is a scummy habit: wait until all the cits vote then see where you can place a vote to look like a citizen -- and often your vote doesn't matter by then. I was also suspicious of his explanation for if InnerS and Sis both turned up alive today, that Sis had to be mafia. I think he was trying to set us up so he could lynch me yesterday and leave both of them alive last night and have the final lynch be Sis. It might have worked, but I think he waited too late, once again.
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 14, 2009 20:09:13 GMT -5
I should clarify: can you elaborate on why you voted for MHaye? I'm not completely convinced that either of you is scum so I'd be interested to know why you think MHaye is scum. I voted for MHaye because I think he is scummier (Is that really a word?) than you. It seems like he never votes until the last minute -- which I think is a scummy habit: wait until all the cits vote then see where you can place a vote to look like a citizen -- and often your vote doesn't matter by then. I was also suspicious of his explanation for if InnerS and Sis both turned up alive today, that Sis had to be mafia. I think he was trying to set us up so he could lynch me yesterday and leave both of them alive last night and have the final lynch be Sis. It might have worked, but I think he waited too late, once again. My problem with MHaye was the late voting, too, and low level of participation. Although he seems to have about the same number of posts as you, I felt like I was waiting for him to come in to the discussion at certain points. I should probably be more specific about that and if I need to track down dates and times, I will. I just don't know if it makes him scum or not. Case in point, though, he hasn't been in here yet toDay. You make a good point about why he wanted SisterCoyote here toDay. That's what I couldn't figure out about his last proposed set up when he caused the tie but that would be beneficial to him if he were scum. I swear, texcat, if you are scum, I am going to be mad!! But frankly, I was waiting for you to justify your vote for MHaye because it seemed suspicious to me that you'd talked about voting for him yesterDay and toDay but hadn't given solid reasons yet. I actually have suspected MHaye from the beginning but couldn't come up with a solid case - maybe that is what makes him such a good scum! Unvote: texcat [/color] Vote: MerestilHaye[/color]
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 15, 2009 4:43:37 GMT -5
I voted for MHaye because I think he is scummier (Is that really a word?) than you. It seems like he never votes until the last minute -- which I think is a scummy habit: wait until all the cits vote then see where you can place a vote to look like a citizen -- and often your vote doesn't matter by then. I vote late for two reasons. One, I don't subscribe to the theory that votes are cheap - I never have. They're far too important to throw around like confetti. Read a couple of old games, and you'll see what I mean. The second (perhaps arising from my belief that votes are significant, is that I look for pointers that suggest guilt before I vote, or it might as well be random. That my vote often doesn't matter by then is a problem I continually struggle with. So, fundamentally, you're voting me because of my playstyle. Then you misunderstood. I did not want both Sister Coyote and IS alive Today. I wanted not to lynch Sister C Yesterday. There's a difference. The difference is that I wanted to create a Night 4 where, whoever the Mafia killed they couldn't win, because the kill would reveal them. I was too late because I took too long working things out.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 15, 2009 4:48:28 GMT -5
My problem with MHaye was the late voting, too, and low level of participation. Although he seems to have about the same number of posts as you, I felt like I was waiting for him to come in to the discussion at certain points. I should probably be more specific about that and if I need to track down dates and times, I will. I just don't know if it makes him scum or not. Case in point, though, he hasn't been in here yet toDay. "Fools rush in", or so the saying goes. I've been reviewing the posts you two have made. Again. I got about halfway before my eyelids closed of their own accord.
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 15, 2009 6:46:39 GMT -5
MHaye, this is what you said at the end of Day 4.
"On the other hand, if SC is the Cop, if the Mafia roleblocks and kills IS, then SC gets an investigation. Presumably she'll realise that she should investigate one of the two unknowns (as IS is confirmed already). Whichever one she investigates, she'll be able to ID the Mafiate and that's all, she wrote. If SC is the Cop, the Mafia have to kill her Overnight - unless we do it first."
I'm not sure how you thought this would have helped Town win.
You are assuming that the scum would have roleblocked AND killed IS which I still don't get. Why would the scum do that? That's a waste of a Night action. If they roleblock IS, there is no reason to kill him and vice versa. I would think the scum would have roleblocked SisterCoyote and killed IS and then we would be here with no investigation and the same finger pointing we are doing now.
Am I missing something in your explanation?
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 15, 2009 8:50:46 GMT -5
MHaye, this is what you said at the end of Day 4. "On the other hand, if SC is the Cop, if the Mafia roleblocks and kills IS, then SC gets an investigation. Presumably she'll realise that she should investigate one of the two unknowns (as IS is confirmed already). Whichever one she investigates, she'll be able to ID the Mafiate and that's all, she wrote. If SC is the Cop, the Mafia have to kill her Overnight - unless we do it first." I'm not sure how you thought this would have helped Town win. I examined a range of possible gamestate scenarios that might arise if, instead of lynching the claimed Cop, we lynched one of the three unknowns. Fore each scenario, I tried to show what the Mafiate's options were, and how likely it was for the Mafiate to win from that position. I did not spell out every step in detail, because of the time when I finally got to that point. You're getting fixated on one particular scenario. You mustn't. Take a step back, and methodically go through each possibility. Then ask yourself "what chance does the Mafiate have of winning in this scenario?" That's what I did. I came to the conclusion, in the specific scenario you are hung up on, that it would not happen. That is, the Mafiate would not both block and kill IS. So I finished with "If SC is the Cop, the Mafia have to kill her Overnight." Looking back, there's a possibility I'd ruled out, but didn't fully explain why. That is that the Mafiate would not roleblock Sister C. At that point, the main obstacle to their winning is the Doc, because the chance of the Doc protecting the nightkill target were quite good. The Mafiate had to kill one of the two power roles, so the other Unknown was ruled out. This IS had a 50/50 chance of negating the kill. To ensure the kill goes through, the Mafiate would almost certainly roleblock the Doc, thus their only option to silence the Cop was the kill; now guaranteed because the Doc was roleblocked.
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 15, 2009 9:22:55 GMT -5
MHaye, this is what you said at the end of Day 4. "On the other hand, if SC is the Cop, if the Mafia roleblocks and kills IS, then SC gets an investigation. Presumably she'll realise that she should investigate one of the two unknowns (as IS is confirmed already). Whichever one she investigates, she'll be able to ID the Mafiate and that's all, she wrote. If SC is the Cop, the Mafia have to kill her Overnight - unless we do it first." I'm not sure how you thought this would have helped Town win. I examined a range of possible gamestate scenarios that might arise if, instead of lynching the claimed Cop, we lynched one of the three unknowns. Fore each scenario, I tried to show what the Mafiate's options were, and how likely it was for the Mafiate to win from that position. I did not spell out every step in detail, because of the time when I finally got to that point. You're getting fixated on one particular scenario. You mustn't. Take a step back, and methodically go through each possibility. Then ask yourself "what chance does the Mafiate have of winning in this scenario?" That's what I did. I came to the conclusion, in the specific scenario you are hung up on, that it would not happen. That is, the Mafiate would not both block and kill IS. So I finished with "If SC is the Cop, the Mafia have to kill her Overnight." Looking back, there's a possibility I'd ruled out, but didn't fully explain why. That is that the Mafiate would not roleblock Sister C. At that point, the main obstacle to their winning is the Doc, because the chance of the Doc protecting the nightkill target were quite good. The Mafiate had to kill one of the two power roles, so the other Unknown was ruled out. This IS had a 50/50 chance of negating the kill. To ensure the kill goes through, the Mafiate would almost certainly roleblock the Doc, thus their only option to silence the Cop was the kill; now guaranteed because the Doc was roleblocked. I still don't see how you can be so sure the scum would have killed SisterCoyote over Night. Had we not lynched SisterCoyote, the scum had two possibilites because they have two Night actions: 1. They could kill IS and block SisterCoyote 2. They could kill SisterCoyote and block IS I don't think it's a given that SisterCoyote would have been killed that Night had we not lynched her. She's useless to Town if she's roleblocked so option 1 makes more sense as the pro-scum play. In option 2, same thing: it helps scum because there is no investigation and no protection from the doc. What I'm getting hung up on is that you don't seem to be taking all these options into consideration and making some huge assumptions in order to convince me that what you were proposing was pro-Town. Let's assume for a minute that either option 1 or 2 happened. Night 4 would have left us with either a dead cop or a dead doc and no investigation. That's where we are now, except that there are three of us instead of four. I don't think the scum could have done anything other than roleblock one of the two and then kill the other. So we would be here still arguing about whether or not we thought SisterCoyote was telling the truth. Since all three of us doubted her yesterDay, we may have doubted her again toDay, lynched her and then we'd have lost. At least now, we know she is confirmed and it's just us three to figure it out but our focus is clear and we are not distracted with any discussions of SisterCoyote.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 15, 2009 11:13:07 GMT -5
Metallicsquink, I think we're getting hung up on cases, and I don't think that's doing us much good.
Roleblocking Sister Coyote could have been more viable than I thought as a Mafia plan; the downside being that this risks interference in the kill by the Doc and making Today a 4-handed Day instead of three-handed. That would leave IS, Sister C and two out of us three (depending on which of us had been hanged Day 4) to face off. Would that have been better for the Mafiate?
My main point Yesterday was that we should not lynch the claimed Cop because either she was telling the truth (and we would thus be making the Mafia's Night 4 gameplan easier) or was lying (in which case a kill would have left her exposed).
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Post by bufftabby on Jul 15, 2009 11:21:52 GMT -5
Official Vote Count 2 Mhaye (texcat 403, metallic squink 411) ~3.75 hours left.[/color]
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Post by metallicsquink on Jul 15, 2009 12:46:30 GMT -5
Mhaye, at this point, it's late in the Day and I still don't know who you are going to vote for. I would be interested in hearing the case you might have against texcat, if that's who you were going to vote for.
I know that you like to be sure about a vote and that votes aren't cheap but that goes for me as well. I would like time to consider any case you might have but at this point, I've been so torn over who to vote for I'm feeling like it's a toss up. So if you were going to vote for texcat, I would have liked time to consider what you said to support your vote in case I wanted to switch. I have to go and I probably won't be back until the Day is over so I won't be switching my vote.
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