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Post by Renata on Jan 4, 2010 7:33:51 GMT -5
(I'm back, I'm back, things are back to normal, whee! I mean, holidays are great and all, but geez. Anyway. ) vote: peekerI see no reason to change my vote from yesterday. If I'm not forgetting anything, peeker's participation since I had to go AWOL consists of unvoting Hawkmod right after Tom did, voting a lurker, speculating about there being no traditional recruitment in the game despite Tom's strong suggestion that there is, and hammering luv. Luv, by the way, if no one else noticed, was not only capable of confirming another player as Town but also of maintaining that player's status -- if there were no Scum jumping on any excuse to remove him once he claimed, I'll eat my socks. And peeker was already in trouble.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 4, 2010 8:02:38 GMT -5
VOTE COUNT (1.04) - 8:00 AM EST
Special Ed - 1 (texcat - #4) texcat - 1 (Inner Stickler - #28) peekercpa - 1 (nphase - #30)
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 13:22:47 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 4, 2010 13:22:47 GMT -5
I agree with nphase; peek's hammer yesterday stinks to high heaven, largely because it was brung down in the middle of luv trying to decide whether or not to reveal the GG's identity. I'm not ready to vote peek yet, because while his motivation certainly wasn't pro-Town I'm not convinced his motivation was pro-Scum, either, and I want to go back over yesterDay.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 15:53:32 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Jan 4, 2010 15:53:32 GMT -5
Peeker, I find it hard to follow you at the best of times, but: while i tend to believe that tom is not recruitable in the "normal" sense. i also believe that mechanics may make a switch possible. now that we know that luv was who he said he was i am tending to believe that gg could be switching. that's why i am not so morose about kat. fuck with a whole shit pot of potential gfs that makes an investigator about nigh worthless. matter of fact, probably worse than worthless. and one thing i have learned about story when it comes to canon is that he is a tricksy son of a bitch. so i have to play this straight. i have no clue about gg, stark, etc. and to be honest will not even invest any time in that path. i just want to get another notch on my belt as a humble town servant.in addition to dropping the hammer on luv you appear to be soft claiming a pro-town killing role. Are you?
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 16:59:54 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 4, 2010 16:59:54 GMT -5
look, i already said why i dropped the hammer. two folks had already indicated that they were leaning on voting him. i figured the Day had gone on long enough anyways (for me that is). now upon relfection and with the flip it probably was a poor percentage play for me personally. of course, if i was scum i would have known that and would certainly take it back if i knew then what i know now. also, knowing who gg is if we are to believe luv (and since the flip i have no reason to not believer) didn't mean shit for luv's alignment or for that matter what the fuck gg would be if and when luv died and flipped true if he did.
so yeh, i hammered him but you know what it took six other votes to get to that point.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 17:05:10 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 4, 2010 17:05:10 GMT -5
in addition to dropping the hammer on luv you appear to be soft claiming a pro-town killing role. Are you? that was not the intent. i was merely restating my often stated positon that i feel that (more than others) i play for my team to win. if i get offed in the process, so be it. as long as i get another victory survival can go to my team mates. now having said that it does not preclude me from claiming what i really am if the need arises. so you might be right for the wrong reason or you just might be wrong.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 17:10:19 GMT -5
Post by special on Jan 4, 2010 17:10:19 GMT -5
look, i already said why i dropped the hammer. two folks had already indicated that they were leaning on voting him. i figured the Day had gone on long enough anyways (for me that is). now upon relfection and with the flip it probably was a poor percentage play for me personally. of course, if i was scum i would have known that and would certainly take it back if i knew then what i know now. also, knowing who gg is if we are to believe luv (and since the flip i have no reason to not believer) didn't mean shit for luv's alignment or for that matter what the fuck gg would be if and when luv died and flipped true if he did. so yeh, i hammered him but you know what it took six other votes to get to that point. so, a 'scum wouldn't do that' defense? That coupled with your post 17 today, where you seem to be pushing that Scum can't be recruited, but Town can..and they probably turn into Scum troubles me. And I'm not convinced by your' "Knowing" that luvbwfc was Town, changing to voting for luv, changing to you were still pretty sure he was Town seems to make sense from a Town perspective. One last point, are you claiming to be a pro-Town vigilante? Maybe one who isn't remourseful?
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 17:12:49 GMT -5
Post by special on Jan 4, 2010 17:12:49 GMT -5
ah, we cross-posted.
Still, I'm struck by what Bill pointed out. You aren't morose. And you wanted a notch in your belt.
I'm starting to get a strong SK vibe from you, but, what puzzles me, is that it almost seems to be your intent to be leaving that vibe.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 17:26:57 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 4, 2010 17:26:57 GMT -5
ah, we cross-posted. Still, I'm struck by what Bill pointed out. You aren't morose. And you wanted a notch in your belt. I'm starting to get a strong SK vibe from you, but, what puzzles me, is that it almost seems to be your intent to be leaving that vibe. oh c'mon ed "scum wouldn't do that" from me. oh, fcs. however, i would say that there are times when it does ring true. for example if scum were to claim vig in colorless i'd put that in the column of "scum wouldn't do that". seriously, they will do anything that advances their cause but, nope, they won't do anything that reverses it. and i don't see any fracking way that scum could be recruited. they would know who their team mates were and game would be over real quick. unless they all happen to switch to town in which case . . . . game would be over real quick. so i am fairly confident that any allegiance shifts will come from either town choosing something or third parties choosing something. whether that is intentional or not remains to be seen. additionally, how their wincon plays out will be a factor. if you are town and become scum but you still win with town then, . . . game over real quick. that's my guess and i am sticking with it.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 18:58:26 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Jan 4, 2010 18:58:26 GMT -5
and i don't see any fracking way that scum could be recruited. they would know who their team mates were and game would be over real quick. unless they all happen to switch to town in which case . . . . game would be over real quick. That sounds like a challenge to me.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 19:34:16 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 4, 2010 19:34:16 GMT -5
and i don't see any fracking way that scum could be recruited. they would know who their team mates were and game would be over real quick. unless they all happen to switch to town in which case . . . . game would be over real quick. That sounds like a challenge to me. maybe so maybe know. i thought you were dead.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 19:59:05 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Jan 4, 2010 19:59:05 GMT -5
I had a really hard time believing a scum peeker would hammer luv. Now I'm just confused.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 20:28:50 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Jan 4, 2010 20:28:50 GMT -5
peeker can get away with a lot because he's widely known to be nucking futs half the time.
I find Special Ed's actions late in Day One to be somewhat questionable. It seemed to me that the end of the Day played out with Ed saying he thought luv was Scummy but didn't want to hammer, and peeker saying that he thought luv might be Town but hammering anyway. Not sure what to make of it.
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Day Two
Jan 4, 2010 21:20:52 GMT -5
Post by special on Jan 4, 2010 21:20:52 GMT -5
peeker can get away with a lot because he's widely known to be nucking futs half the time. I find Special Ed's actions late in Day One to be somewhat questionable. It seemed to me that the end of the Day played out with Ed saying he thought luv was Scummy but didn't want to hammer, and peeker saying that he thought luv might be Town but hammering anyway. Not sure what to make of it. At the end of the Day, I did find the case against luv to be the strongest. However, with the question of identifying the Green Goblin still not resolved, I didn't want to hammer yet. I felt there was still something to be gained from the conversation. I thought I was pretty clear about that. peeker's actions do puzzle me though. If he thought luv was Town, was the hammer just a self-defense hammer?
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Post by Red Skeezix on Jan 5, 2010 0:09:00 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;"> DrainBead, in your place I'd investigate Sinjin rather than Kat, because knowing Kat's exact abilities won't yield any extra information. Since this is Day 2, Kat probably won't have had a chance to receive a result from her power use before she got killed, thus could not have breadcrumbed it. Knowing what her power was helps in only one way; it closes off the possibility that an ARR 1 might guess the role and false claim it. I think that risk is small, and we'll learn more from checking Domino out. (snipped) I'm not understanding why you are encouraging drain to investigate sinjin. You are denigrating the advantages of closing off an investigative false claim. Maybe you have more experience with this that I do, so there is some situation that I am not considering. <font style="font-size: 12px;">Yuck. Three dead townies and not much to show for it. Is it worthwhile speculating on who/what caused the second night kill? And whether the color that Kat was murdered and sinjin was unlucky means anything? I'm going to start toDay just where I left off yesteRday: (snipped) Your vote for special ed was weak yesterday, but it was day 1, and weak cases abound on day 1. But to be frank the reasoning that you've given appears to me to be a mischaracterization. I don't see smudge in Ed's post. Just him pushing his current thoughts and justifying his vote (weakly) against pollux oil. On reread your vote yesterday looks defensive because he commented on your low volume of posts. Then toDay when peeker challenges your continued vote and your previous night's comments you threaten voting him instead. I must be reading peeker's night post differently than you. Care to explain what you thought of his post that had your scumdar going off in the night thread?
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 10:04:45 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Jan 5, 2010 10:04:45 GMT -5
Or more importantly, why she then turned around and voted for Ed and not peeker. For the record, I also think texcat's case against Ed is weak, which is not to say I think Ed is Town. But it's a day-one sort of case at best, and it's now day two.
peeker clarifying "scum wouldn't do that"
And what you did is not an example of the latter.
What I believe is in it for peeker to hammer luv despite the likely negative consequences is that peeker was already in significant trouble. If he didn't hammer luv, it was quite likely he'd be lynched instead. Our only confirmed Town was voting for peeker, not luv. And even if that somehow didn't happen, he'd have to figure he was likely to draw votes toDay. From a Scum perspective, what's to lose here? Basically nothing. And in return you get rid of a very problematic player (if luv were ever confirmed, the GG would have been also, two for one) and potentially reduce Town numbers to boot.
More peeker:
Indeed. Same potential Scum motivation, and less risk. But none of them had earned my vote before luv was ever on the might-be-lynched list. So you first, if you please.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 16:44:33 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 5, 2010 16:44:33 GMT -5
Vote count: Same as the last vote count.
-----
MODERATOR'S NOTE: It would appear that the "no deadline" mechanic has been somewhat less than successful at generating an active game, yes? Day One lasted 18 real-life days, and Day Two has occupied a third of that already while generating less than two full pages of content. Given this fact, management is probably going to institute some form of lynch deadline in the next day or so. If you have strong objections to this, please let me know via PM.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 17:30:12 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Jan 5, 2010 17:30:12 GMT -5
Praise Jebus.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 18:07:07 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 5, 2010 18:07:07 GMT -5
Or more importantly, why she then turned around and voted for Ed and not peeker. For the record, I also think texcat's case against Ed is weak, which is not to say I think Ed is Town. But it's a day-one sort of case at best, and it's now day two. peeker clarifying "scum wouldn't do that" And what you did is not an example of the latter. What I believe is in it for peeker to hammer luv despite the likely negative consequences is that peeker was already in significant trouble. If he didn't hammer luv, it was quite likely he'd be lynched instead. Our only confirmed Town was voting for peeker, not luv. And even if that somehow didn't happen, he'd have to figure he was likely to draw votes toDay. From a Scum perspective, what's to lose here? Basically nothing. And in return you get rid of a very problematic player (if luv were ever confirmed, the GG would have been also, two for one) and potentially reduce Town numbers to boot. More peeker: Indeed. Same potential Scum motivation, and less risk. But none of them had earned my vote before luv was ever on the might-be-lynched list. So you first, if you please. when i hammered luv it was 6 - 5 with two leaning towards luv. my math could be wrong but that accounts for all but one vote that was still outstanding. so to be honest with you, i've been a lot closer to getting strung up than that before. also, the Day had gone on a looooooong time. hey, i thought luv was a decent lynch candidate and when ahead and pulled the trigger. what you gonna do? and you've never seen a confirmed town make a wrong vote? that's peculiar. happens periodically if not frequently. so fucking strawmen don't really do shit for me. and would it have helped to know who gg was. don't think so. first to believe his alignment someone has to confirm luv (which in and of itself could be problematic). so even if we knew who gg was before luv passes the only thing we could have been sure of was that he was town aligned up until that point. after that, nada. so i'd much rather have a dead luv at this point with a locked in gg than having a floater. because i believe that recruitment will exist. i also believe that it will be fairly limited. so to be honest, lock everyone in early and then play straight up as opposed to waiting until the freaking end when folks can get a whiff of wind direction and really fuck town over.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 18:07:45 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 5, 2010 18:07:45 GMT -5
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 19:10:28 GMT -5
Post by special on Jan 5, 2010 19:10:28 GMT -5
Vote count: Same as the last vote count. ----- MODERATOR'S NOTE: It would appear that the "no deadline" mechanic has been somewhat less than successful at generating an active game, yes? Day One lasted 18 real-life days, and Day Two has occupied a third of that already while generating less than two full pages of content. Given this fact, management is probably going to institute some form of lynch deadline in the next day or so. If you have strong objections to this, please let me know via PM. I understand. Honestly, I like the mechanic even with the longer days. I think we're potentially getting more information out there, but, yes, there's no pressure to participate or vote that we're used to. Vote: peeker mostly because I'm not really able to see any Town motivation for what he's said and the contradictions he stated, but I can see an anti-Town motivation for it. For details, please see my previous posts toDay.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 20:20:40 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Jan 5, 2010 20:20:40 GMT -5
Your vote for special ed was weak yesterday, but it was day 1, and weak cases abound on day 1. But to be frank the reasoning that you've given appears to me to be a mischaracterization. I don't see smudge in Ed's post. Just him pushing his current thoughts and justifying his vote (weakly) against pollux oil. On reread your vote yesterday looks defensive because he commented on your low volume of posts. Then toDay when peeker challenges your continued vote and your previous night's comments you threaten voting him instead. I must be reading peeker's night post differently than you. Care to explain what you thought of his post that had your scumdar going off in the night thread? I just thought peeker's statement of "tom, i wouldn't be surprised if it was just you and me as town at this point. " sounded like a scum trying too hard to be town. Sister Coyote also thought the post odd, though she didn't say scummy. Yep, my vote on Ed is weak. I did say that I would be more than willing to change my vote if someone can come up with a stronger case. I haven't seen one yet -- though I might consider voting peeker. I honestly can't tell whether his posts are peeker-odd or scummy-odd. Since this is a non-vanilla game, we must have some investigative roles out there. I was hoping someone would have something to report toDay, but it doesn't appear so. I am going mostly on my gut and a weak case and voting Ed.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 20:45:44 GMT -5
Post by Red Skeezix on Jan 5, 2010 20:45:44 GMT -5
Y I just thought peeker's statement of "tom, i wouldn't be surprised if it was just you and me as town at this point. " sounded like a scum trying too hard to be town. Sister Coyote also thought the post odd, though she didn't say scummy. Yep, my vote on Ed is weak. I did say that I would be more than willing to change my vote if someone can come up with a stronger case. I haven't seen one yet -- though I might consider voting peeker. I honestly can't tell whether his posts are peeker-odd or scummy-odd. Since this is a non-vanilla game, we must have some investigative roles out there. I was hoping someone would have something to report toDay, but it doesn't appear so. I am going mostly on my gut and a weak case and voting Ed. (underlining added) Overall this post casts your already undermotivated Ed vote in a very ambivalent light, with a bit of not so subtle fishing at the end. Do you really think it would be a good idea for an investigative role to out themselves on day 2? Vote: texcat
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 20:52:39 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Jan 5, 2010 20:52:39 GMT -5
yaknow what i think. i think scum want my ass silenced.
either i have gotten too close to the truth about recruitment or they are scared that i know instead of figuring it out.
that's what i fucking think.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 20:58:07 GMT -5
Post by tomscud on Jan 5, 2010 20:58:07 GMT -5
Hi guys. This is my "I apologize for being so fucking silent" post, but I don't see it changing - I need to churn out 2-3k words a day for the next week for my day job so I really don't feel any urge to do careful reading during my off hours. I'll try and do a bit of reading & responding on the weekend, at least.
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Day Two
Jan 5, 2010 23:02:51 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Jan 5, 2010 23:02:51 GMT -5
Do you really think it would be a good idea for an investigative role to out themselves on day 2? No, but I expect an investigative role who uncovered a scum to vote for them and find reasons for others to vote for them. And I have not seen either.
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Post by BillMc on Jan 6, 2010 6:12:33 GMT -5
when i hammered luv it was 6 - 5 with two leaning towards luv. my math could be wrong but that accounts for all but one vote that was still outstanding. so to be honest with you, i've been a lot closer to getting strung up than that before. also, the Day had gone on a looooooong time. hey, i thought luv was a decent lynch candidate and when ahead and pulled the trigger. what you gonna do? So you are admitting that hammering luv was a defensive move to keep your own neck out the noose? and you've never seen a confirmed town make a wrong vote? that's peculiar. happens periodically if not frequently. so fucking strawmen don't really do shit for me. I don't believe anyone that voted luv was confirmed town; and yes, just because Tom was confirmed as town, doesn't make him right. and would it have helped to know who gg was. don't think so. first to believe his alignment someone has to confirm luv (which in and of itself could be problematic). so even if we knew who gg was before luv passes the only thing we could have been sure of was that he was town aligned up until that point. after that, nada. so i'd much rather have a dead luv at this point with a locked in gg than having a floater. I agree with Ed that further discussion would have been beneficial, giving town more information, which may have resulted in folk moving their vote away from luv. because i believe that recruitment will exist. i also believe that it will be fairly limited. yaknow what i think. i think scum want my ass silenced. either i have gotten too close to the truth about recruitment or they are scared that i know instead of figuring it out. that's what i fucking think. I don't see why you would think this. After Tom stating that he is not recruitable, I don't think anyone would disagree that there is recruitment, and that it would be "fair", as per Story. It seems a little over dramatic to claim you are being victimised for stating what is already known about recruitment. Your play in this game is baffling me - it's self preserving and anti-town; but at the same time it smells of "scum wouldn't do that". I'm leaning towards you being a 3rd party killer, and at this stage of the game, are more likely to hit town than scum. Vote: Peeker No, but I expect an investigative role who uncovered a scum to vote for them and find reasons for others to vote for them. And I have not seen either. It's often of greater benefit for a investigator to be able to confirm who is town, rather than out scum.
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Day Two
Jan 6, 2010 11:41:57 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Jan 6, 2010 11:41:57 GMT -5
when i hammered luv it was 6 - 5 with two leaning towards luv. my math could be wrong but that accounts for all but one vote that was still outstanding. so to be honest with you, i've been a lot closer to getting strung up than that before. also, the Day had gone on a looooooong time. hey, i thought luv was a decent lynch candidate and when ahead and pulled the trigger. what you gonna do? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. The game started with more people than that. Not a strawman, as that wasn't my point. I was commenting on the fact that Tom was voting for the second-highest vote-getter, and therefore wasn't about to put the hammer on luv himself, as had been discussed earlier. If you are Scum, and Scum collectively or you personally decided you were better saved than bussed, then -- certainly after a couple of people had talked about maybe hammering luv but not followed through -- you were the only logical choice to do it. I don't know if your hammer would have been enough for me to vote for you if I had had no pre-existing suspicions, but dang peeker. You're trying to argue there was no plausible scum motivation for it, and that is just not true. I don't even know what to say to this, we're so far apart.
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Day Two
Jan 6, 2010 15:12:49 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 6, 2010 15:12:49 GMT -5
Do you really think it would be a good idea for an investigative role to out themselves on day 2? No, but I expect an investigative role who uncovered a scum to vote for them and find reasons for others to vote for them. And I have not seen either. There's an awful lot of assuming in that statement right there: If an investigative role uncovered scum, and if there's a strong enough case to be made about that scum, then I might expect to see something like this from an investigative role -- and this early in the game? Only if they feel they can cover their butts. If we have any more investigators, and if their investigation turns up alignment, because it might turn up something else completely. I have seen cases being made. They may not come up to your standards (or mine -- do you see a vote here?), but that doesn't mean there aren't cases being made.
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Natlaw
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Day Two
Jan 6, 2010 15:22:34 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Jan 6, 2010 15:22:34 GMT -5
My vote will be on peeker as it now stands but to avoid a hammer before he claims I'll FOS Peeker For his hammering of luv as a 'decent candidate' while being thinking he was Town and not needing to place a self-defense vote but doing it anyway, etc.
On the deaths: both were fairly low posters so one could have been a vigilante kill (BillMc used that as reason in Space Hijack IIRC) but since that goes for both not much use telling which is which. The second kill also could be SK or someone else.
On who to investigate: luv was also an Other so I think that finding out an odd ball power might be more rewarding (in case another hint towards recruitment). On the other hand if it was an active power, it might not be that relevant since there was only one Day/Night Cycle to use it. More info on an investigator might be helpful in evaluating other claims of that type, although duplicates of weaker investigators or one town and one scum are possible as well. If we want to use it that way it might be better to not reveal it right away if not directly helpful (with the risk to lose it if drainbead dies without recording).
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