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Post by Chronos on Mar 11, 2012 16:53:23 GMT -5
Penguin is a bit puzzling, no matter how you look at it. Talia was a 3rd party, not a PFK, and has at various times worked with or against Batman, so it makes sense for her to be 3rd party. Nobody called Robin has ever been anything but an ally of Batman. No, it's not 100% certain that that holds in this game, but then, nothing short of death is ever 100% certain.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 16:54:22 GMT -5
Really Drain? How am I supposed to school the newer players not to be naive when you go making dubious votes like that? Please point me to any color that cam from Storyteller's fingers that inscrutably ties Batman to Robin with respect to alignment. So am I wrong to assume LightFoot as Robin isn't scum? Why do you think I checked her out. Go back and read everything she has said.
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Post by Chronos on Mar 11, 2012 16:55:49 GMT -5
Please tell me you're joking here, Cookies. The mere existence of a name-detective power is itself a strong indication that name and alignment are at least closely correlated.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 16:57:25 GMT -5
I Will admit there was no colour and peeps can stuff up my advice
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 16:57:39 GMT -5
Who put crack in the coffee this morning?
We have an alleged name claim/accusation being made on against another player who has not had a chance to respond, by a player who is as unconfirmed as the day is long.
This is where we talk about things like a name investigator being a potentially convenient thing to claim for a Scum investigator who may or may not have received other information beside Lightfoot's alleged role name. Or how it is possible that Jan could be a vanilla scummer delivering the results of a scum investigator teammate. Or we wax nostalgic about all of the other games in the past where canon alignment was tossed out the window and re-written completely by Mods-as-fanfic-authors.
This is not where we go jumping on baseless bandwagons.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:00:53 GMT -5
Please tell me you're joking here, Cookies. The mere existence of a name-detective power is itself a strong indication that name and alignment are at least closely correlated. And you know Silver Jan is being honest how? It is an alleged name-detective power, and a strong indication of one thing from where I'm sitting: That there may be a name-detective power in this game.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:02:35 GMT -5
It is simply idiotic to lynch based on canon lines. Period. And that is all that has been presented so far as a justification.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 11, 2012 17:04:01 GMT -5
Lightfoot's Major Posts about Alignments, names, and "Good Guys": Post 603 : "Things LF thinks" Just as a background to the Naming Problems Reply 804 This is the post where they (S/He) makes the comment about the "Survivors" of Gotham, and notes Texcat may have doctored his role PM. (They NETA to point out that "NETA survivors=saviors") Reply 816 : Asks "The good guys are trying to save the city, right?" Reply 818 Asks "But destroying Gotham surely is not Town's goal?" Reply 831 Defends self, and notes Name =/= Alignment 842 Defends self again- notes 'a name could be on any side' again, especially with Recruitment as a possibility in the game. 845 Defends reasoning for why they called out Texcat's role PM as being anti-town. 849 Lightfoot gets frustrated. 850 "Don't n00b label me, bro!" 853 Tries to steer things back to the Lynch after noting "I’m not playing this literal to the batman saga I’m playing it as a mafia game. So the history or even the name of said character has no bearing on how I think of them in This game.". [/urlhttp://www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=dds&thread=1885&post=88963] 865[/url] Notes again how they play Mafia- "Town is the “good guys” ( not because of their names because of their alignment) " 875 Gives acrostic. Ffyyhwtbgmasawuaoeebtshcotwwc Reply 901 Notes one last time: " Town is the preferred faction in this game, right? We want Town to win. ( well those who are Town do) So they are the positive faction. Someone saying Town is the bad guys ( because of their names) is just as disconcerting as my use of good guys because of their alignment.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:05:44 GMT -5
Lightfoot could very well be scum, and should I arrive at that conclusion based on actual evidence and actually vote to lynch her, or she ends up flipping as scum down the road some other way, I'm pretty sure these posts will be touted as thinly veiled defense instead of the just the simple incredulity that is prompting them, but oh well.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 17:06:15 GMT -5
Te he, I have never heard of a Vanilla Scummer! I have already said that LightFoot?Robin was in black. I have written to the Mod to find out if he did that on purpose. Its the 1st time that I have a role and it ends up being whacked
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 11, 2012 17:08:30 GMT -5
While I wouldn't put it as strongly as Cookies did, I think it's a tad premature to start a wagon on lightfoot without giving her a chance to respond to the accusations. (Jan, in the future, it might e better to sit on that information until after your targets have claimed. It's always better to chance them out in a public lie.)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:11:20 GMT -5
Really Drain? How am I supposed to school the newer players not to be naive when you go making dubious votes like that? Please point me to any color that cam from Storyteller's fingers that inscrutably ties Batman to Robin with respect to alignment. So am I wrong to assume LightFoot as Robin isn't scum? Why do you think I checked her out. Go back and read everything she has said. You are voting for LightFoot, so I hope you think that she IS scum. But to answer the question I think you meant to ask: Yes, I think it is premature to assume that LightFoot, if she is indeed Robin, is Scum simply because Robin is Batman's sidekick in the comics, and Batman flipped as Scum yesterDay.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 11, 2012 17:18:42 GMT -5
I would actually argue that role names in this game should not be as null of a tell as you're claiming. The colour refers to the fact that Batman and fellow do-gooders have come back to try and save Gotham. Robin is a very obvious choice as a likely do-gooder. No, we can't automatically assume alignment based on role name, but we also can't assume it is completely meaningless, either.
But anyway, yeah, I'd like to hear from Lightfoot before I make any strong opinions. But I will note that the information that was generously collected by SBrown does help support the idea that Robin may actually be town (or at least not scum).
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 17:21:00 GMT -5
So am I wrong to assume LightFoot as Robin isn't scum? Why do you think I checked her out. Go back and read everything she has said. You are voting for LightFoot, so I hope you think that she IS scum. But to answer the question I think you meant to ask: Yes, I think it is premature to assume that LightFoot, if she is indeed Robin, is Scum simply because Robin is Batman's sidekick in the comics, and Batman flipped as Scum yesterDay. I am voting for LightFoot because I think she is scum, ( suppose ya all want to see my PM?
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 11, 2012 17:22:41 GMT -5
Talia was a 3rd party, not a PFK, and has at various times worked with or against Batman, so it makes sense for her to be 3rd party. Nobody called Robin has ever been anything but an ally of Batman. No, it's not 100% certain that that holds in this game, but then, nothing short of death is ever 100% certain. Two Canon Clarifications: Talia- is certainly a character in batman mythos who goes both ways. She has allied with her father, but also at times helps batman and is against her fathers wishes. Also, She is the mother of Batman's Son (Damien Wayne- the current Robin), and she raised and trained her son by her armies of Ninja Assassins and all before allowing Bruce to care for the kid. So it makes sense for her to be a 3rd party- She's been a villain plenty of times, and she's the mother of Batman's Child. Robin- Almost all but 1 of the Robin's have been staunch allies of Batman. There is one Robin who actually turns out to be a Batman villain, and I'm curious to hear from Lightfoot the flavor of her PM and if she may claim to be this one villainous Robin. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My thoughts based on the LF Posts: That said, I find Lightfoot's posts to be wierd yesterday, but now a bit more clearer today. Multiple times she had to defend her comments about the Town/Saviors of Gotham, and I wonder if it's because of her Mafia Nomenclature (as she claimed), or because of a genuine accidental slip-up and recovery. -Of Note: LF does mention many times yesterday that Name=/=Alignment, which does tend to indicate she may have had a role that may not sound "townie" by canon, and was trying to prevent us from jumping to that conclusion. -But the problematic post for me is 842, where she notes that name=/= alignment, and also mentions Recruitment. In a game where Robin might not allies at the start with Batman, and names may not mean alignment, do I think that Robin would be the perfect target for a Batman type of Recruiting effect? I'd go with yes. The Mention of recruitment + The mentioning of Saviors of Gotham slip/error may not have caught my eyes as much, especially in light of Pleo's stuff. But maybe if there was a Scummy player out there who was trying to recruit a possible Do-Gooder sort of role- that might be something they'd take notice of a little bit more. Maybe Robin is scum, but does not have access to the other scum members? Or needs to be recruited back onto the scum team- this is what I fear- and I think there was a mechanism like this in the Arkham game, where Scum were down a player and had to find him. This makes me feel like I should: Vote Lightfoot as standing out as more suspicious than the others right now.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 11, 2012 17:26:48 GMT -5
But anyway, yeah, I'd like to hear from Lightfoot before I make any strong opinions. But I will note that the information that was generously collected by SBrown does help support the idea that Robin may actually be town (or at least not scum). Wait, did I miss something? I think it makes her look very suspicious- that she might have slipped up about her PM and that she could have been prime suspect for being recruited by a Do-Gooder.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:28:21 GMT -5
I would actually argue that role names in this game should not be as null of a tell as you're claiming. The colour refers to the fact that Batman and fellow do-gooders have come back to try and save Gotham. Robin is a very obvious choice as a likely do-gooder. No, we can't automatically assume alignment based on role name, but we also can't assume it is completely meaningless, either. But anyway, yeah, I'd like to hear from Lightfoot before I make any strong opinions. But I will note that the information that was generously collected by SBrown does help support the idea that Robin may actually be town (or at least not scum). And I agree. It is circumstantial evidence either way, but a Do-gooder/Hero/GoodGuy Townie could have been tripped up in that conversation. And I don't want to accuse Lightfoot of being a newbie again, but such subtleties of oral traditions on these boards do seem to be a little foreign to her based on that exchange, where as many of us have hashed and re-hashed similar conversations dozens of times. Trying to avoid the sort of confusion that might leave Scum an opportunity to exploit it is exactly why I tried to state as clearly and firmly as possible that there is a need to be quite clear about the differences between canon and game mechanics when making posts.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 11, 2012 17:30:22 GMT -5
If you read her posts in the light of having a go-gooder name on top of being town, they do make a certain amount of sense.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 17:30:27 GMT -5
Ya know guys I am so going to be killed at Night. Hm and I found my friend that was scum
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 17:33:00 GMT -5
But anyway, yeah, I'd like to hear from Lightfoot before I make any strong opinions. But I will note that the information that was generously collected by SBrown does help support the idea that Robin may actually be town (or at least not scum). Wait, did I miss something? I think it makes her look very suspicious- that she might have slipped up about her PM and that she could have been prime suspect for being recruited by a Do-Gooder. Hi my dear, I always look scummy, except most times I am Town Sometimes I am scum though but not in this game
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Post by Dirx on Mar 11, 2012 17:33:21 GMT -5
Ya know guys I am so going to be killed at Night. Hm and I found my friend that was scum It's been asked before, but I guess I'll repeat: How are you sure you're going to be killed? And is that second sentence referring to your investigation of Lightfoot, or something else altogether?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:34:16 GMT -5
But anyway, yeah, I'd like to hear from Lightfoot before I make any strong opinions. But I will note that the information that was generously collected by SBrown does help support the idea that Robin may actually be town (or at least not scum). Wait, did I miss something? I think it makes her look very suspicious- that she might have slipped up about her PM and that she could have been prime suspect for being recruited by a Do-Gooder. So do you think her posts yesterDay were made as a Townie who was then recruited? Or did you find her posts yesterDay to be suspect and think she was already scum? You can't have it both ways. She hasn't posted anything toDay, so if she was recruited last Night, there would be no statements made as a Scummer for you to be suspicious of.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:39:19 GMT -5
Wait, did I miss something? I think it makes her look very suspicious- that she might have slipped up about her PM and that she could have been prime suspect for being recruited by a Do-Gooder. Hi my dear, I always look scummy, except most times I am Town Sometimes I am scum though but not in this game I'm pretty sure the 'her' that Sbrown was referring to was Lightfoot, not you. I'm starting to feel like I'm in that game where half of the players were recruited from the Facebook group again. Not an uncomfortable feeling, more like waking up hung over in Cabo with no money and the only things I know how to say in Spanish are "you have nice breasts" and "where is the dentist?"
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Post by texcat on Mar 11, 2012 17:40:48 GMT -5
I'm going to wait for lightfoot's explanation. I'd like her to post the sentence that matches her anagram. As skeptical as I was of the anagram idea, I can see now that it will be beneficial. I would have thought that a scummy Robin would have posted the anagram of a fake role, and would now have a hard time using those letters for Robin.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 11, 2012 17:41:09 GMT -5
You are voting for LightFoot, so I hope you think that she IS scum. But to answer the question I think you meant to ask: Yes, I think it is premature to assume that LightFoot, if she is indeed Robin, is Scum simply because Robin is Batman's sidekick in the comics, and Batman flipped as Scum yesterDay. I am voting for LightFoot because I think she is scum, Please look at what Lightfoot is up too, she is scum
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Post by Drain Bead on Mar 11, 2012 17:44:06 GMT -5
I'm going to wait for lightfoot's explanation. I'd like her to post the sentence that matches her anagram. As skeptical as I was of the anagram idea, I can see now that it will be beneficial. I would have thought that a scummy Robin would have posted the anagram of a fake role, and would now have a hard time using those letters for Robin. Yeah, this should be funny.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 11, 2012 17:45:06 GMT -5
So. We have someone claiming a bunch of stuff, informally, and someone else, who has yet to say anything, is getting votes.
Got it.
Well, that is to say, I don't "" got it "" but you know what I mean to say.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 11, 2012 17:45:34 GMT -5
You are voting for LightFoot, so I hope you think that she IS scum. But to answer the question I think you meant to ask: Yes, I think it is premature to assume that LightFoot, if she is indeed Robin, is Scum simply because Robin is Batman's sidekick in the comics, and Batman flipped as Scum yesterDay. I am voting for LightFoot because I think she is scum, Please look at what Lightfoot is up too, she is scum I'll keep biting. Why do you think she is scum? And "Because she is Robin" is not the sort of answer I'm looking for.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 11, 2012 17:46:06 GMT -5
I'm going to wait for lightfoot's explanation. I'd like her to post the sentence that matches her anagram. As skeptical as I was of the anagram idea, I can see now that it will be beneficial. I would have thought that a scummy Robin would have posted the anagram of a fake role, and would now have a hard time using those letters for Robin. Yeah, this should be funny. I'll admit to thinking "But there is no R in there!" on LF's accro.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 11, 2012 17:49:20 GMT -5
So do you think her posts yesterDay were made as a Townie who was then recruited? Or did you find her posts yesterDay to be suspect and think she was already scum? You can't have it both ways. She hasn't posted anything toDay, so if she was recruited last Night, there would be no statements made as a Scummer for you to be suspicious of. I think I agree with you, Cookies. I think I find Lightfoot suspicious, based on the possible slip yesterday- but as Dirx said about the idea that she could have a Do-Gooder name but be Town, I think I may have been jumping the gun. I don't really have any reasoning for the recruitment stuff, other than she seems like a great target (and if she wasn't before, probably she is now) for someone to target. But I think that's more my gut feelings, but not really a logical thing to assume right now. The Occam Razor and all- It might be a far fetched to assume that Robin is a Recruitable Townie Do-Goodie who was recruited last night and investigated by another Role at the same time. To answer your Q- I guess logically- I assume Lightfoot looks suspicious in light of her comments about slipping up- but the stuff about her name not equalling alignment might speak to her being a Townie with a Do-Gooder name. I think I'd have to see her PM or talk to her further to see if that was the case. If her PM actually did show her role as being "a Savior of Gotham" as she initially noted. Then maybe she was making a slip. But if her PM says she's not really scum, but flavor-wise just explains she's still helping out the Town rather than the Scum, then maybe it was her playing Style and also being a fellow newbie to the boards. So I think I'll back down, and let cooler heads prevail. I should give her a chance to talk and even point out if she IS Robin. Unvote LightfootBut double- FOS on Lightfoot! I hope you can come back and clarify things, especially earlier rather than later in the Day.
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