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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 6:06:30 GMT -5
Post by zuma on Mar 17, 2008 6:06:30 GMT -5
As to numbers of the scum, with 25 players somewhere between 4 and 6 scum is usually considered balanced I think? Correct me if I'm wrong there. I think standard is about 25 percent, which would imply about 6. And that could be adjusted in this game based on power roles of both town and scum. I'd guess no less than 5, no more than 7 or 8. But since I don't know anyone's roles other than my own, I don't know how it would be adjusted based on various power roles. We do know there is no recruitment, though (according to Dio in one of the pre-game threads).
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 7:03:17 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on Mar 17, 2008 7:03:17 GMT -5
We do know there is no recruitment, though (according to Dio in one of the pre-game threads). And isn't that a godsend. ;D
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 7:16:46 GMT -5
Post by brewha on Mar 17, 2008 7:16:46 GMT -5
Wow, at least there's not gonna be a problem of lack of participation like in the You-Solve-It mess! Already on page 2 by 6AM?
Anyway, it has been mentioned, but what is the correct terminology for the inmates and the Batfriends? The color post mentioned that the inmates call themselves 'The Town'. So, can we call the Batfriends scum even if they are the good guys? I guess I just want to make sure I know what people are saying when the discussion gets going.
And yes, I fully agree that there should be no leniency towards lurkers. I would have rather Faithfool gotten modkilled early in the game than have it end the way it did.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 7:37:10 GMT -5
Post by zuma on Mar 17, 2008 7:37:10 GMT -5
Wow, at least there's not gonna be a problem of lack of participation like in the You-Solve-It mess! Already on page 2 by 6AM? There wasn't really a problem in you-solve-it early in the game, but as the game went on, the scum killed off the noisiest known (to them) townies, and the town did a decent job of ignoring the lurkers in the mid to late game. Every game for me at least has been a learning experience... Also, to babble a bit more, I'm kind of happy with the fact that I was suspicious of sachertorte's change in playing style in that game (and would have voted for him had I not been killed), compared to M2. Now that I have a few games under my belt I think I'll be happy to vote for someone with a change in playing style, unless they can come up with a reasonable explanation for it. But that only works for veterans regarding veterans. So... I also think we should be on the lookout for experienced players changing playing style. A side benefit may be causing the scum to be forced to play like their former townie self, and maybe falling into a slip-up. And my promising not to day post drunk should not be considered such a change I'm just trying to be reasonable here...
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 7:55:36 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Mar 17, 2008 7:55:36 GMT -5
Good grief, you guys get up early. I am also ready to lynch fluffy voters early. And it's way easier to separate the fluff from the stuff on this board than on the SDMB where all the days and nights are strung together in one long chain.
That being said, I am traveling most of the day today and all day Friday. I will definately have my vote out by Thursday night, but will not be around to change it Friday am if someone late claims.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 8:11:29 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 17, 2008 8:11:29 GMT -5
Woohoo! Game on! It's so nice to be able to publicly admit to being eeeeeeevil. ;D Oh, I also wanted to ask anyone who played in Pleonast's game (I didn't play or follow it), if there is anything they learned, any pitfalls, etc, that we should watch out for in a non-vanilla game? The one thing I take away from previous closed setups is not to assume "the mods wouldn't give someone that particular power". In Serenity, how many times did we hear that "River Tam wouldn't have that many different powers", but she did? And do I even need to mention the Chi-Bingo Manager?
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 8:23:13 GMT -5
Post by brewha on Mar 17, 2008 8:23:13 GMT -5
And my promising not to day post drunk should not be considered such a change I'm just trying to be reasonable here... See, I'm kinda put in a spot. My paranoid frothing at the mouth rantings has gotten me in nothing but trouble in the past. However, if I stop doing it now, people will think that I'm scum since I've always been town and always acted the same way. So, do I keep up with the crazy rantings and get labeled scum for talking too much, or do I play a more reserved game and get labeled scum for changing my play style?
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 8:25:22 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Mar 17, 2008 8:25:22 GMT -5
What I mean is that I think that we have to be quicker about lynching lurkers than we have been in the past. I mean, in You-Solve-It sachertorte basically lurked until the last Day(I think it was Day 8). We should prod them first, but if they're not responding we shouldn't be hesitant about a lynch. Hey! I started lurking around Day 4. It's just that I started lurking when you stopped ;D
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 8:28:58 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 17, 2008 8:28:58 GMT -5
Hmm...I just gave the intro a reread and this jumped out at me:
Here's my take on that: "the authorities" have the ability to pull a few of us out of the asylum. I don't know if that means alive or dead, but I'm going to guess that it would effectively remove that person from the game. I'll further guess that "the authorities" are a second scum group made up of Commissioner Gordon, Chief O'Hara, and perhaps others (Barbara Gordon, maybe?). The "limited power" bit makes me think they are only able to pull a small number of us out.
I can't quite figure exactly where they would fit into the game -- my first thought was that they were a mason group, but what the hell would the Chief and Commissioner be doing in the asylum? Perhaps that whole quoted bit was just meaningless flavor text, but just in case we start seeing some of our esteemed colleagues vanish overnight, I think we have our reason why.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 8:29:02 GMT -5
Post by zuma on Mar 17, 2008 8:29:02 GMT -5
See, I'm kinda put in a spot. My paranoid frothing at the mouth rantings has gotten me in nothing but trouble in the past. However, if I stop doing it now, people will think that I'm scum since I've always been town and always acted the same way. So, do I keep up with the crazy rantings and get labeled scum for talking too much, or do I play a more reserved game and get labeled scum for changing my play style? I think you said you were trying to quit that pre-game, so you'll get a pass. For that, anyway.
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Koldanar
Mome Rath
[on:I survived the apocralypse!][of:Into the void, go I]
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 8:33:34 GMT -5
Post by Koldanar on Mar 17, 2008 8:33:34 GMT -5
So now, none of you start to think I'm lurking if I'm quiet till tomorrow. Monday Night is a class night, so i'll usually have not much time to share until Tuesday during the day.
That said, this is the first closed setup I've been in. What I'm wondering is, how are claims handled generally? Obviously others don't have information on the roles, so I would assume that there is much less trust on claims here. Is there a snort of derision, and people keep on voting over the claim?
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 9:06:12 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 9:06:12 GMT -5
Hey hey hey, fellow crazy people! It's good to see so much participation so early. On the subject of claims: That said, this is the first closed setup I've been in. What I'm wondering is, how are claims handled generally? Obviously others don't have information on the roles, so I would assume that there is much less trust on claims here. Is there a snort of derision, and people keep on voting over the claim? Well, if there's one lesson I learned from the Firefly game, it's that we can't assume anything from character names, other than that Batman is scum (explicitly stated in the color). It is possible that each player's character name is directly related to alignment, and it's the traditional comic rogue's gallery versus Batman, Robin, and Batgirl (or whatever). It's possible that Robin is on our side and the Joker is on Batman's. So a role name is utterly irrelevant. Powers we have to consider, and analyze situationally. We're certainly going to get a lot of practice with it, though, since I doubt anyone will die in this game without making a role claim of one kind or another.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 9:21:49 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Mar 17, 2008 9:21:49 GMT -5
Hey, I'm around, just still a git hazy on the painkillers. I'm not intentionally lurking, I just find it difficult to think right now. Once all this clears up, I'm sure I'll participate more.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 9:43:50 GMT -5
Post by ryjae on Mar 17, 2008 9:43:50 GMT -5
If that's the case storyteller claiming would be next to worthless if I'm reading your post correctly. My thinking coming into the game was by day 2 everyone mass claim, yeah scum can lie and hide but not if they get caught in that lie. But if what you're saying turns out to be correct, character claims would be of no use to us. I have to think about that now.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 9:53:58 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 9:53:58 GMT -5
If that's the case storyteller claiming would be next to worthless if I'm reading your post correctly. My thinking coming into the game was by day 2 everyone mass claim, yeah scum can lie and hide but not if they get caught in that lie. But if what you're saying turns out to be correct, character claims would be of no use to us. I have to think about that now. Well, your milage may vary. But in the Firefly game, which is still pretty fresh in my memory, two players had character roles that, in the show's canon, were closely tied to the Crew (the good guys in that game). But they were scum in game. Meanwhile, at least one other character was unequivocally a bad guy in the show but a good guy in the game. The mods might have done something similar here, or they might not have; since we have no way of knowing for sure, my intention is to treat name-based claims as worthless. The scum, with the exception of Batman, will have no reason to do anything other than claim their own names. To do otherwise is to risk detection by the real whoever, which is a pretty big risk.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 9:57:42 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 17, 2008 9:57:42 GMT -5
<snip> If it comes down to a coin flip, however, it will not count as a lynch for game purposes. Instead, it will count as a modkill.<snip> What's the difference?[oog]I left my laptop charger in Abq, midterms are due this week, and I just got a new project at work, so I'm not going to be showing my smiling face in here as much as you all have come to expect for a couple weeks at least.[/oog]
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RoOsh
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:02:39 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Mar 17, 2008 10:02:39 GMT -5
<snip> If it comes down to a coin flip, however, it will not count as a lynch for game purposes. Instead, it will count as a modkill.<snip> What's the difference?] Modkills are gonna be the dude croaks of natural causes, and not caused by the players in the flavor. Lynching means you guys actually Lynch them in the flavor. One's cooler than the other. I swear, if I have to give Batman a hernia leading to stress and then his hemorrhoids flare up and he gets a random massive coronary, I will. But then you guys miss out on all the fun.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:21:35 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 10:21:35 GMT -5
I was so looking forward to being one of the first posters, I had a slice of pie at my desk last night (huckleberry warm with ice cream if you are wondering ) and a nice cup of warm milk, and was all ready to post... and then my finance came home and distracted me until it was time to go to sleep. So now my first post is on page TWO! Sheesh. There has been some interesting talk so far. I am watching to see how things unfold. I haven't played in a no vanilla game before, so it will probably take me a little bit to wrap my head around it. But I think, like in storytellers game, we need to start keeping a list of what we KNOW about the game setup. The faster we break the setup the easier it will be to win. Do masons have a seperate win condition, is there a serial killer, are there potentially multiple scum factions etc etc, are all things we need to look out for. We know Roosh, we know Dio, and we know they talked a lot about the game before we started. Also, Dio told me that they used a lot of traditional color in setting up the game. I don't know when/if they violated the traditional cannon, or what cannon they pulled from primarily, but any Batman experts out there might be able to help us out trying to figure out what is going on. (5 years ago I would have counted myself among those ranks, but it has been a while since I was really into comics.) Christ, was that rambling enough? My posts are proably going to look like that for a little while, sorry. I have decided that thinking out loud (or whatever) is the best way to keep my actions transparent. Transperancy is good for the town. On an only semi game related note, I am going to give the SDMB game a little more priority than this one, just becasue it is farther along. BUT I think I am going to get lynched over there soon, so that proably won't effect this game for long. Also, I am right in the middle of moving so my time will be a bit more limited than usual until the 1st. Ok, I think that is everything I have to say for now. ;D
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Koldanar
Mome Rath
[on:I survived the apocralypse!][of:Into the void, go I]
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:27:40 GMT -5
Post by Koldanar on Mar 17, 2008 10:27:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure that a mass role claim would be a good idea or bad; we don't know some of the powers. One of the scum might be able to recruit, or make use of our information in such a way as to provide us with a huge disadvantage. TAke a look at the arguments on the SDMB game to see how people feel about mass role claims. Right now, none of us know what is going on with anyone else. The information might seem useful...but maybe not? I'm on the side of no claim right now, obviously.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:32:05 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 10:32:05 GMT -5
I'm not sure that a mass role claim would be a good idea or bad; we don't know some of the powers. One of the scum might be able to recruit, or make use of our information in such a way as to provide us with a huge disadvantage. TAke a look at the arguments on the SDMB game to see how people feel about mass role claims. Right now, none of us know what is going on with anyone else. The information might seem useful...but maybe not? I'm on the side of no claim right now, obviously. I think this game, role claims are different than in the SDMB game. I didn't follow Pleo's game too closely, but my understanding of that game is that a mass claim would have handed the game to the scum. Until we know more, I don't think anyone should claim unless it keeps them from getting lynched. (And now I am off the the SDMB game to say exactly the opposite. )
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:35:46 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 17, 2008 10:35:46 GMT -5
I don't know when/if they violated the traditional cannon, or what cannon they pulled from primarily, but any Batman experts out there might be able to help us out trying to figure out what is going on. (5 years ago I would have counted myself among those ranks, but it has been a while since I was really into comics.) Other than the TV show, I have little experience with Batman, so I've been tearing through the web to bone up on the comics-based storylines. Might I recommend this article for potential roles and their interactions?
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:40:53 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Mar 17, 2008 10:40:53 GMT -5
This maybe a reverse scum game where we all get to play the bad guys and try to lynch the good guys but I don't think the fundamental rules are in any danger of being broken.
Concerning Name vs Roles, I don't think a mass name or role claim is going to help. I'm sure Roosh and Dio would have considered such a crazy stunt and taken appropriate steps. We may even have a couple of players with non-canon batman names and roles in the games just to really confuse us.
As far as I am concerned, expect everything and assume nothing.
About the only thing we can say is that Batman is on the loose and needs lynching. We don't know how may scum he has alongside him or what everyone in the town is capable of.
From the sounds of it, we won't know just how crazy this game is until we are dead. I would personally prefer to catch the scum before that time.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 10:52:04 GMT -5
Post by ryjae on Mar 17, 2008 10:52:04 GMT -5
My only thought pregame was a mass role claim and see who fits in still a few days later. I see now that was a stupid plan, but it's what I had. I can see how that would help Batman now though, and hurt us. It may still be worthwhile in a while IMO anyway its not something to throw out completely just yet.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 11:10:44 GMT -5
Post by brewha on Mar 17, 2008 11:10:44 GMT -5
Lots and lots of questions. I've been wondering some of the same things. If I had to guess, I'd say that the police force would be the masons. The true nature of things is that Batman is a vigilante and - except for Gordon - the police would arrest him if they could. So, maybe there's undercover cops 'commited' in the asylum - that are also trying to out Batman. So, if the town wins that Masons win - but they're not neccisarily on our side.
Also, I see the merits of a mass role claim to out the scum, but I think it's a bad idea this early in the game. Even though this is a no vanilla game, I have to think that there's going to be some roles more powerful than others. The scum would pass over a 'henchman #1' if they could get to a detective or seer type role.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 12:02:17 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Mar 17, 2008 12:02:17 GMT -5
Flavorwise, a lynch is caused by the collective will of the entirety of 'The Town'. A modkill will be flavored as some other manner of death (not necessarily natural causes, but I think we will go with Roosh's recommendation if Batman has to be modkilled). Some game mechanics may hinge upon whether a player dies from being lynched or not. If there's a tie, those mechanics which require a player to be lynched to activate, won't. Those game mechanics which activate on any death but a lynch, will.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:00:10 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 17, 2008 13:00:10 GMT -5
Off an running I see. I'm with Cookies right now...expect everything and assume nothing. I've played in both a closed setup and a no vanilla setup, but I think this is the first no vanilla-closed setup. Things are going to be very interesting, but for right now, I'm not going to try to out-think the mods. I know who I am and until I get further information from deaths and reveals, I don't think it's going to be fruitful to try my hand at speculation. I'm no Batman expert.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:07:15 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 17, 2008 13:07:15 GMT -5
Off an running I see. I'm with Cookies right now...expect everything and assume nothing. <snip> Where did Cookies say that? On the scum board, perhaps? Did you mean CatInASuit?
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Koldanar
Mome Rath
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:10:07 GMT -5
Post by Koldanar on Mar 17, 2008 13:10:07 GMT -5
One idea I want to bring up / ask about...since we are on a strict start time schedule for Days / Nights, is it ever really worth it to hammer someone? Lets say sure, we have a candidate that is the run-away favorite of all voters; do we allow discussion to continue so we have a few days in which to strategize, or do we off the proposed-scum and let the night begin?
I would tend to think more discussion would get us some more information about behaviors at least. Thoughts?
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:16:27 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 17, 2008 13:16:27 GMT -5
"expect everything and assume nothing" is certainly something I have said more than once in other games, even though I have not said it in this one. I'm fairly sure I have said something to that effect as both scum and town, fwiw.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:18:29 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 17, 2008 13:18:29 GMT -5
Off an running I see. I'm with Cookies right now...expect everything and assume nothing. <snip> Where did Cookies say that? On the scum board, perhaps? Did you mean CatInASuit? Yes it was the Cat, although I could have sworn it was the Lego Joker who said it. I did not get a whole lot of sleep last night.
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