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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:34:03 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 17, 2008 13:34:03 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with the people who are saying that we shouldn't publicly role-claim unless pushed to do so by pressure of lynching. It's an extraordinarily bad idea IMO. Firstly, who's to say which character is on which side? Secondly, by revealing details of "power roles", if that's what's entailed, we're effectively handing the game over to the scum. Thirdly, who's to say that they haven't got roles of their own that they can claim as "town" when in fact they're not? I notice that the discussion seems to have mostly focussed on innocent roles, not scum ones, so far.
Some people seem to be taking it for granted that there are "vanilla" scum without roles. I'm not going to make that assumption. A wolf role investigator or secret votor seems 100% plausible to me. (In fact, given the "no vanilla" rule, it seems highly unlikely to me that the wolves DON'T have an investigator mulching around somewhere.)
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:38:21 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Mar 17, 2008 13:38:21 GMT -5
Nearly Top of the Page Vount Count: Nobody's voted.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:38:37 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Mar 17, 2008 13:38:37 GMT -5
You know, this entire game is really only going to depend on one thing.
Was he prepared? ;D
d&r
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:42:56 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 13:42:56 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with the people who are saying that we shouldn't publicly role-claim unless pushed to do so by pressure of lynching. It's an extraordinarily bad idea IMO. Snipped. I know I said it in my longer rambling post, but I don't know how many of you actually read that thing. I totally agree with the above. A change of position from my normal stance, but in a game where we know so little, I am more afraid of what could hurt us that we don't know. Maybe we can revisit the idea in a couple of Days after we have learned a little more (I am planning to start another "what we know list" like I had in Blade Runner so maybe we can keep better track.)
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 13:47:56 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Mar 17, 2008 13:47:56 GMT -5
Where did Cookies say that? On the scum board, perhaps? Did you mean CatInASuit? Yes it was the Cat, although I could have sworn it was the Lego Joker who said it. I did not get a whole lot of sleep last night. Yes, it was me and not long ago too, with Cookies nowhere around. Meh. We' re being too nice, this is as good a starter reason as any. vote Hockey Monkey
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:04:12 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 14:04:12 GMT -5
Yes it was the Cat, although I could have sworn it was the Lego Joker who said it. I did not get a whole lot of sleep last night. Yes, it was me and not long ago too, with Cookies nowhere around. Meh. We' re being too nice, this is as good a starter reason as any. vote Hockey Monkey Your right, we ARE being too nice. And that vote is an even better reason. Vote CIAS
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:04:45 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Mar 17, 2008 14:04:45 GMT -5
NAF brought up the Conspiracy game. I think that it's true that a completely truthful mass claim from the beginning would have handed the game to the scum. The only reason the Town won that game was that sachertorte, who claimed Day 1, actually held back a critical portion of his powers(he was able to detect when a player was recruited). Our esteemed Mods say that there's no recruitment, so that's not an issue, but I would not trust that there aren't some townie roles who will be critical for us to win.
Now, it must be noted that it was a mass claim near the end of the game that won it for the town. Freudian Slit was the Necromancer and had come very close to her win condition, but she wasn't able to come up with a plausible role claim and she was lynched in the nick of time. I'm not sure if that will apply here, because we won't be as sure how close the scum are to their win condition.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:08:26 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Mar 17, 2008 14:08:26 GMT -5
Oh, and to make Dio happy:
Vote Dark Smurf
Why? Because random.org tells me to.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:13:28 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 14:13:28 GMT -5
Oh, and to make Dio happy: Vote Dark SmurfWhy? Because random.org tells me to. BAH! So help me I will not get sucked into this argument. But AAAHHHHHHRGGGGGG!* *this is the sound of a cry of frustration, in case you didn't recognize it.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:19:27 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Mar 17, 2008 14:19:27 GMT -5
Has there been a discussion on random votes recently that I've missed? I don't usually follow the games that I don't play in.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:21:43 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 14:21:43 GMT -5
Has there been a discussion on random votes recently that I've missed? I don't usually follow the games that I don't play in. Yeah...there has...someone else will have to fill you in.
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Koldanar
Mome Rath
[on:I survived the apocralypse!][of:Into the void, go I]
Posts: 4
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Karma:
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:23:50 GMT -5
Post by Koldanar on Mar 17, 2008 14:23:50 GMT -5
To summarize : Random vote = 0 info ( did i get it right NAF?)
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:24:21 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 14:24:21 GMT -5
OK. Pleonast isn't playing this time around, so I guess it's someone else's job to suggest an early-game, wildly unconventional approach. What the heck: I volunteer.
I've been thinking about the brief exchange I just had with ryjae about the utility of name claims under pressure. I've been working this over in my head for a while. PLEASE NOTE: The following proposition will involve two terms - "role claim" and "name claim," which are obviously not interchangable. For the purposes of clarity, I'm defining a "name claim" as exactly and only that. A name claim would be: My character name is Top Dog.
A "role claim," for these purposes, would include a name claim, alogn with a description of powers, color, history of non-public actions, and/or other other interesting factoids that seem relevant.
With that in mind, my proposal is as follows: I move that every player in the Town should name claim immediately, following a random order determined by sports scores (similar to Rysto's approach in the YSIM game). There should be no role claiming.
<cue mass chaos>
OK, I know this is a pretty radical plan, by our historical standards. From the perspective of a group of players that has generally approached the game cautiously as Town, it probably won't seem a good idea. But here's the thing:
Caution has gotten us nowhere. These games have been won by scum with increasing frequency, and even several of the Town wins have been the result of massive scum mis-steps rather than good play by the Towns. Caution has morphed into passivity. Especially in the early game, we sit and take no risks, doing nothing to take the game to the scum, letting them control the flow of the game. Screw that. The moderators of this game have been very public in stating that this will be a bloody game, which will likely translate into a short game. In a short game, the passive approach - let's see how things play out and go from there - will put us behind the 8-ball very quickly.
So, a mass name claim. I'll outline what I perceive to be the disadvantages, and then what I perceive to be the advantages. All I ask is that everyone consider my argument on its merits, instead of defaulting to the "mass claims are bad" mentality. Like every game, this game is different; I'm coming to understand that any strategic opinion that remains constant from game to game is probably a flawed opinion.
DISADVANTAGES
1. The scum will now know our names. This might yield some very small advantage to the scum, in that some role names might be more likely to be particularly powerful roles than others, and thus be more attractive targets. But this is a small advantage, since it relies on an assumption - that "Big Name" characters will correspond with major power roles - that is not at all a certainty.
2. The unknown. Someone's going to say some variation on the following: "We don't know the set-up, and there might be some disadvantage to name claiming that we don't know yet." To which I reply: "We don't know the set-up, and there might be some ADVANTAGE to name claiming that we don't know yet." Sure, there's a risk that this might hurt us. But it won't break the game in either direction, unless the game is very poorly designed. And every once in a while, for crying out loud, you have to take a shot, even if there's risk entailed.
Now, the advantages:
1. Most importantly: this plan will force Batman to lie, and to do so immediately, toDay. Every other scum can claim his or her real name safely. The Bat cannot. Suppose the random order puts Batman near the top of the list. No one has died. He has little information about who might be in the Town. He will have to make something up, and hope that the character he chooses to pretend to be doesn't already exist. He will have to gamble. If he guesses wrong, if he picks a name to claim that someone else already has, then Batman is dead within two Days at most.
Now, it's possible that Batman has been pre-prepared with a fake role to guard against exactly this. In that case, this will not work. But if he hasn't, a mass name claim stands an excellent chance of putting early pressure on him.
2. If a mass name claim helps the scum by giving them potential targets to target, it also helps the pro-town power roles. It gives the investigator(s) leads on who to investigate, the doctor(s) leads on who to protect, and so on.
3. It supplies data, which is in short supply right now.
OK, that's it. Let's see what everyone thinks.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:54:18 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Mar 17, 2008 14:54:18 GMT -5
All credit for using basketball scores for randomization goes to zuma, not me. I'll think on your idea, storyteller. One objection does spring to mind for me: in all likelihood one's powers are connected to one's Name, so it might be possible for the scum to deduce who the most important roles like the doctor are from the Names. It's also possible that the scum know that certain villains have important powers, or even that their win conditions require certain villains to die.
But I have a nagging thought: In You-Solve-It, I argued vociferously against revealing the dossiers. As it turned out, the dossiers were an extremely pro-town mechanism and it was critical to get them in the open. Now, later in the game I did make the argument that we lynched more townies based on dossiers than scum, but in retrospect that was a dumb argument. Information is information. If the town misinterprets it that's the town's fault; it doesn't make having the information a bad idea. At one point I came damn close to figuring out how the scum had constructed false dossiers; had I pursued the thought a little bit further, I would have been able to catch Pleonast and sachertorte with it.
So, I'm not going to reject a mass claim out of hand like I have in the past. I know that some of you might find it suspicious that I'm changing my play style, but I can't get away from the fact that my play style has been awful for the Town. So I'm going to be staying away from the massive conspiracy theories that try to find all of the scum at once. If that bothers you, look at how the scum manipulated me in M2 and YSI and then you can see why I find it necessary to change.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Karma:
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 14:58:28 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 17, 2008 14:58:28 GMT -5
Yes it was the Cat, although I could have sworn it was the Lego Joker who said it. I did not get a whole lot of sleep last night. Yes, it was me and not long ago too, with Cookies nowhere around. Meh. We' re being too nice, this is as good a starter reason as any. vote Hockey MonkeyYou both start with "C"! Seriously, brained that post together with Cookie's avatar...for what reason I have no idea.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:08:31 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 17, 2008 15:08:31 GMT -5
DISADVANTAGES 1. The scum will now know our names. This might yield some very small advantage to the scum, in that some role names might be more likely to be particularly powerful roles than others, and thus be more attractive targets. But this is a small advantage, since it relies on an assumption - that "Big Name" characters will correspond with major power roles - that is not at all a certainty. 2. The unknown. Someone's going to say some variation on the following: "We don't know the set-up, and there might be some disadvantage to name claiming that we don't know yet." To which I reply: "We don't know the set-up, and there might be some ADVANTAGE to name claiming that we don't know yet." Sure, there's a risk that this might hurt us. But it won't break the game in either direction, unless the game is very poorly designed. And every once in a while, for crying out loud, you have to take a shot, even if there's risk entailed. Now, the advantages: 1. Most importantly: this plan will force Batman to lie, and to do so immediately, toDay. Every other scum can claim his or her real name safely. The Bat cannot. Suppose the random order puts Batman near the top of the list. No one has died. He has little information about who might be in the Town. He will have to make something up, and hope that the character he chooses to pretend to be doesn't already exist. He will have to gamble. If he guesses wrong, if he picks a name to claim that someone else already has, then Batman is dead within two Days at most. Now, it's possible that Batman has been pre-prepared with a fake role to guard against exactly this. In that case, this will not work. But if he hasn't, a mass name claim stands an excellent chance of putting early pressure on him. 2. If a mass name claim helps the scum by giving them potential targets to target, it also helps the pro-town power roles. It gives the investigator(s) leads on who to investigate, the doctor(s) leads on who to protect, and so on. 3. It supplies data, which is in short supply right now. OK, that's it. Let's see what everyone thinks. I think your plan may work, given certain circumstances, but there's no evidence whatsoever to assume those circumstances are in place. Therefore your logic is flawed. Ignoring the point regarding the set-up, which seems to me to be neither positive nor negative since we simply don't know any of the factors involved, let me take your other points one by one. "But this is a small advantage, since it relies on an assumption - that "Big Name" characters will correspond with major power roles - that is not at all a certainty." No, but to quote Brewha, it's pretty safe to say that Ras Al Ghul will have slightly more powers than Henchman#4. "This plan will force Batman to lie, and to do so immediately, today. Every other scum can claim his or her real name safely. The Bat cannot." Lie about his NAME, yes. And I can think of one or two ways in which the roleclaim might be managed in order to give the Bat a greater chance of "slipping up". If he doesn't though, we could very well be screwed - see below. "If a mass name claim helps the scum by giving them potential targets to target, it also helps the pro-town power roles. It gives the investigator(s) leads on who to investigate, the doctor(s) leads on who to protect, and so on." You're assuming a lot of conventional roles there, and this isn't a conventional game. Right now the only role I'm willing to assume are certain are a scum investigator and my own. What if there isn't a "doctor" type role, or if there is but it's limited to protecting one person, or the role is taken away once the doctor has successfully protected someone? If the powers are easy enough to identify, the scum can pick them off one by one. I've played in lots of games recently where there is no doctor or "protector" equivalent. If that's the case here, we could be in all kinds of trouble. "It supplies data, which is in short supply right now." This one I agree with, unfortunately I think that - Batman-naming aside - the people who will benefit most from that data will be the scum UNLESS two very specific roles are in this game. If those roles are both in play, this plan could work. One, obviously, is doctor, and, short of someone coming out and claiming to me that they're it, I'd be very very doubtful about assuming that one. (And no, I'm NOT asking anybody to do that.) The other is a vigilante-type role, ideally a "Rambo" multi-kill type one, which needs to be used QUICK. Night one if possible. Obviously on Batman (since he's the only wolf we're really likely to catch unless they're named in a very obvious way), ideally on the best other suspects that we have at that time. Now I'll say straight away that 1) I don't have either of these roles, and 2) I'm very doubtful that either exists. As I said, I haven't been in a game with a doctor for months - there seems to have been a backlash against the role. I've only ever been in one game with a "rambo" character although I've come across a few vigilantes recently. If this is to work, we need to cut down the spies ASAP after the name claim. We also need to protect our strongest. I don't see any way to guarantee that we can do that unless someone's willing to come forward and claim as doctor/rambo. And personally I wouldn't advise doing that!
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:17:55 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 17, 2008 15:17:55 GMT -5
I'm fully down with storyteller's plan. Maybe, just maybe, we'll luck out and force the Bat into something he wasn't quite so prepared for. However let's be careful with assumption such as this: ...in all likelihood one's powers are connected to one's Name, so it might be possible for the scum to deduce who the most important roles like the doctor are from the Names. While I'm sure that some of the major villains correspond with major power roles, it's almost a dead certainty that this does not hold true across the board. That's fine if the Bat and his chums wants to make that mistake, but let's not do the same. Of course, this is a factor: It's also possible that the scum know that certain villains have important powers, or even that their win conditions require certain villains to die. I hadn't even thought about alternate win conditions....it's definately something to take into consideration, but I think the prospect at finding scum off the bat <snicker> might be worth the risk.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:20:05 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Mar 17, 2008 15:20:05 GMT -5
Sorry to step in so late during this Day 1...
My thoughts:
1. I'm absolutely on the side of those who have advocated pressure on the lurkers. It's to the scum's advantage to fade into the background (my guess would be that is Batman's modus operandi anyway) 2. On storyteller's suggestion to mass-claim names: I don't like the idea. Like he says, it would give us some information and force the Batman to lie from the start... but it has the potential downside of pretty much filling out the information the Scouts1 already have. For instance, my guess is if any of the supporting Scouts (of the comic) have "switched sides", the instant bastard mod (tm) reaction would be to assign them important roles for the town (detective, doctor, etc.). A mass claim would not only force them to lie as well, but, should they have to reverse their claim, they'd instantly appear on the Scouts collective radar. Which would nullify their usefulness, almost from Day 1.
1 (as in Boy Scouts... that name for "scum" should irk Batman)
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:22:03 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 15:22:03 GMT -5
I think your plan may work, given certain circumstances, but there's no evidence whatsoever to assume those circumstances are in place. There's no evidence to assume that they are not, either. It's a risk, and a calculated risk. I acknowledge that a mass claim might hurt us. I believe it is slightly more likely to help us than to hurt us, and am willing to take the risk. There will never be a certain strategy, that's guaranteed to out the scum and have no drawbacks. Is it safe to say that there will be and Henchman #4? It may not be. Admittedly, if there are armies of players with names like "Henchman #2," that might be problematic. But this was advertised as a no-vanilla game, and the panoply of villains in the Batman canon would suggest to me that there is no reason to give anyone a vanilla role name. Again, I have no certainty of this, but I'm making a best guess and going from it. Wait - what? Yes, lie about his name, which is all we need. Look, if Batman has a pre-prepared false claim, then this is academic. But if he doesn't, there's a very good chance he'll be tripped by a mass claim. When his turn comes up, he'll have to decide - who is likely to be in the game? Are there numbered Henchmen? If there are no others, and he claims Henchman #2, his fake claim will be pretty obvious. If he guesses well, hey, so be it - good play by the Bat, and we go about our business. No real harm done. Well, OK. But what if there's a role that can only protect one particular role name? Or a role that can give a power to another role name? We can hypothesize potential advantages or disadvantages based on what we don't know until the cows come home; we're both just hypothesizing. Based on what we do know, I see a mass claim as a modest advantage - and I'm arguing that a certain level of risk may be necessary. I see no reason to assume this. You're basing this on data not in evidence.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:25:21 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 15:25:21 GMT -5
For instance, my guess is if any of the supporting Scouts (of the comic) have "switched sides", the instant bastard mod (tm) reaction would be to assign them important roles for the town (detective, doctor, etc.). A mass claim would not only force them to lie as well, but, should they have to reverse their claim, they'd instantly appear on the Scouts collective radar. Which would nullify their usefulness, almost from Day 1. I don't understand this statement. So, let's say that Robin (for example) is the pro-Town detective. We ask for a name claim. Robin says, "I'm Robin, but I'm pro-Town." Since we've learned from our previous mistakes, we don't lynch him over his name. Maybe the scum target him, and maybe they don't, because they have no way of knowing that he's the detective (hypothetically). The scum would have no way of connecting role to power, any more than we do.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:34:26 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Mar 17, 2008 15:34:26 GMT -5
For instance, my guess is if any of the supporting Scouts (of the comic) have "switched sides", the instant bastard mod (tm) reaction would be to assign them important roles for the town (detective, doctor, etc.). A mass claim would not only force them to lie as well, but, should they have to reverse their claim, they'd instantly appear on the Scouts collective radar. Which would nullify their usefulness, almost from Day 1. I don't understand this statement. So, let's say that Robin (for example) is the pro-Town detective. We ask for a name claim. Robin says, "I'm Robin, but I'm pro-Town." Since we've learned from our previous mistakes, we don't lynch him over his name. Maybe the scum target him, and maybe they don't, because they have no way of knowing that he's the detective (hypothetically). The scum would have no way of connecting role to power, any more than we do. Well, I'm by no means sure of the bastardness of our mods, but I do believe that one way to discourage mass claims (which, let's face it, is in the interest of the mods) would be to assign the roles that way. There's another thought that just popped up in my mind. Couldn't there actually even be duplicate names? I recall, vaguely, an instance where there was a copycat Joker in the Bat-Mythology.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:36:50 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 15:36:50 GMT -5
For instance, my guess is if any of the supporting Scouts (of the comic) have "switched sides", the instant bastard mod (tm) reaction would be to assign them important roles for the town (detective, doctor, etc.). A mass claim would not only force them to lie as well, but, should they have to reverse their claim, they'd instantly appear on the Scouts collective radar. Which would nullify their usefulness, almost from Day 1. I am picking this as a random quote story, just to connect this post to the conversation. I am not sold that the benefit outweighs the risk. I am saying this purely from the perspective of a former mod of a closed setup theme game. Firefly was designed to hurt the town if they pulled a stunt like this. Hurt them quite a bit. Maybe we have learned from Firefly, maybe not, but I would hesitate to adopt this plan. That being said. IF WE DO adopt this plan, we need to do so right away. And by right away I mean today, not just toDay. Speed is key if we are going to gain anything at all.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:38:05 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 15:38:05 GMT -5
Well, I'm by no means sure of the bastardness of our mods, but I do believe that one way to discourage mass claims (which, let's face it, is in the interest of the mods) would be to assign the roles that way. Fair enough. But: (1) It never would have occurred to me that the mods would have an interest in discouraging mass claims. Why? They'd have an interest in making sure mass claims don't break the game, but why would they care if mass claims occur otherwise? You seem to be suggesting that the mods would have designed the game to break for the scum if a mass claim occurred; I just don't believe that to be the case. I don't think a mass claim would be breaking in either direction. (2) Even if you're right, and the roles were assigned in the way you suggest, the scum would have no way of knowing this. If Robin is the detective, and is pro-Town, and he name claims, the scum still don't know that he's the detective.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:40:55 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 17, 2008 15:40:55 GMT -5
I am not sold that the benefit outweighs the risk. I am saying this purely from the perspective of a former mod of a closed setup theme game. Firefly was designed to hurt the town if they pulled a stunt like this. Hurt them quite a bit. Maybe we have learned from Firefly, maybe not, but I would hesitate to adopt this plan. Why? I really don't understand this. My game, which was also a closed theme game, was designed such that a mass claim would have been (probably) slightly pro-scum. But that was a game with vanillas, which changes the calculus. Why are mods so interested in preventing mass claims?
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:47:55 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Mar 17, 2008 15:47:55 GMT -5
We need to be careful that we don't focus all attention on this mass claim idea. In YSI the Town spent pretty much the whole of Day One talking about the dossier claim, and that hurt us somewhat. In the interests of getting this over with as quickly as possible, we should get the ordering set now.
Although it's occurred to me that if the order is set before we make a decision, then Batman can look at the order and decide whether to support the mass claim based on when he's going to reveal. So maybe it's not the best of ideas.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 15:58:24 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 15:58:24 GMT -5
I am not sold that the benefit outweighs the risk. I am saying this purely from the perspective of a former mod of a closed setup theme game. Firefly was designed to hurt the town if they pulled a stunt like this. Hurt them quite a bit. Maybe we have learned from Firefly, maybe not, but I would hesitate to adopt this plan. Why? I really don't understand this. My game, which was also a closed theme game, was designed such that a mass claim would have been (probably) slightly pro-scum. But that was a game with vanillas, which changes the calculus. Why are mods so interested in preventing mass claims? We did it so that there couldn't be any defacto mason groups. Mass name claimings (potentially) harming the town was a side effect of that, but one we recognized and approved of. That being said, it is possible that it won't harm us like it would have harmed the Firefly folks. But if someone claims to be the Joker, would you ever really be able to get yourself to believe that Batman was working with him? I don't know, like I said, I am not anti the plan so much as I am afraid of opening pandora's box. But it might be worth the risk, I am just not sure yet.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 16:00:13 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 17, 2008 16:00:13 GMT -5
I'm convinced of the idea in theory, but I have a couple of reservations. Yes, we'd be getting a lot of information, much more than we've been getting if we all name-claim but I am unconvinced that it will benefit the town more than scum.
If everyone name-claims, the town is going to tell the truth and the scum is going to lie. I imagine this is obvious. Let's move on.
Now we've got a situation where we know the character names of all the players, with some number of scum with completely bogus roles mixed in the list.
As town, we'll see a list of town-ish names and will have to single out who is fibbing based on what? Hope they are counterclaimed? Hope they picked completely unconvincing characters from the Batman mythos? What happens if we still get a lynch wrong? I get it, more information is better than no information, and that's plain as day, but the speed and efficiency at which we'll be able to take in these false claims and correctly identify them as scummy might not be satisfactory when you consider...
...that the scum will then have a list of players to kill that they can then prioritize based on assumed powers given the profile of their character. It's cute to assume that the major players in the Batman universe like the man himself, or the Joker, or Two-Face (whatever) won't have powers relative to their stature, but ultimately dangerous in my opinion. This plan leaves no room for mistakes that we might otherwise be able to salvage, I think, but it could just be my newb showing.
So ultimately the question is, if we all claim like storyteller0910 suggests, can we identify and lynch the scum before they work their way down the hit list we just provided them? Given our total ignorance of what powers the scum may have to work with at night, we might just be handing them the game if we do this.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 16:01:43 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 17, 2008 16:01:43 GMT -5
Forgot to add, I agree that not having Vanilla's does change the math. I am not sure how though and I don't know that it changes it in our favor.
I like crazy idea's though, so feel free to persuade me. You will probably only need a feather.
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 16:01:45 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Mar 17, 2008 16:01:45 GMT -5
We need to be careful that we don't focus all attention on this mass claim idea. In YSI the Town spent pretty much the whole of Day One talking about the dossier claim, and that hurt us somewhat. In the interests of getting this over with as quickly as possible, we should get the ordering set now. Although it's occurred to me that if the order is set before we make a decision, then Batman can look at the order and decide whether to support the mass claim based on when he's going to reveal. So maybe it's not the best of ideas. There's a simple way to do this, especially this early during Day 1: vote on the idea. I vote against storyteller's mass claim
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
Posts: 3
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Day 1
Mar 17, 2008 16:17:41 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 17, 2008 16:17:41 GMT -5
I'm running short on time before the end of the day, but I think patriots sums it up in one. The mods are both experienced enough to design a game that wouldn't be broken with a mass name claim, and I'm not sure that the town is going to net more information than the scum in the exchange. I only know my role name, and that Batman is scum. Although my role name fits the mold of bad guys being good guys and vice versa, I don't have enough information to know whether all roles follow that pattern yet, and I'm not sure we will. There are points to be made on both sides of the issue, of course, but my gut says that the list will be more useful near the endgame, when a pattern is established. The corollary to that, again, obviously, is that scum will have a harder time of faking properly if forced to do so now. It really all depends on if we think powerful town roles will be outed in said claim. I'm not satisfied that we, as a town, have enough information to determine that at this point.
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