|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 14:11:32 GMT -5
My experience prior to this game is pretty much confined to observing fluiddruid's, but from what I've found online (via wikipedia and at least one FAQ on mafia games) there are blocker roles as well. (FD doesn't have a blocker in hers.) It's quite possible town has at least one blocker who happened to choose well last night. I'm of the (wild-guessing) opinion that just about every role you can find on the MafiaScum roles wiki is probably in this game somewhere. It seems to me that one of the main considerations during the setup was "How much of a clusterfuck can we possibly make this game?"
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 14:12:20 GMT -5
Just out of interest, what is "Miss Marple" deduction? Agatha Christie fan over here... I've been waiting for somebody to ask me that. Miss Marple, as you may recall, solves murders by making analogies to past events that she's witnessed. My experience prior to this game is pretty much confined to observing fluiddruid's, but from what I've found online (via wikipedia and at least one FAQ on mafia games) there are blocker roles as well. (FD doesn't have a blocker in hers.) It's quite possible town has at least one blocker who happened to choose well last night. That's a good point, Hoopy. It could have been a town or a scum roleblocker.
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Mar 24, 2008 14:15:47 GMT -5
I'm of the (wild-guessing) opinion that just about every role you can find on the MafiaScum roles wiki is probably in this game somewhere. There is no Leonardo Da Vinci role in this game. No comment.
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 24, 2008 14:16:39 GMT -5
Hal: Are any of the names on your list conceivably groupable into clusters of multiple personalities that might all map to a single player in the game? I'm not very familiar with the canon, but there have already been suggestions of this mentioned wrt the Ventriloquist, and (I think) another villain or two.
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 14:18:38 GMT -5
There is no Leonardo Da Vinci role in this game. I had to look this up: Jesus. Maybe NAF and DrainGead got off easy...
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 24, 2008 14:26:53 GMT -5
Assumptions for what I am about to say: That Hal (regardless of his alignment) does indeed possess a list of roles, that at least portions of the list are not red herrings, and that he is telling the truth about the contents of the list.
Does the "resistance to sharks" indicate that NAF could have survived an attack by the Great White? I vaguely remember a previous game that had such a resistance model after a failed attack. BladeRunner or Firefly, I think. But in that case the resistance clauses were revealed in the role PMs, and not out in public like this, which could all point back to Gastard Moddery.
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 14:29:40 GMT -5
Hal: Are any of the names on your list conceivably groupable into clusters of multiple personalities that might all map to a single player in the game? I'm not very familiar with the canon, but there have already been suggestions of this mentioned wrt the Ventriloquist, and (I think) another villain or two. Seems to me there could be -- my familiarity with the cannon is tied closest to the TV show, then a handful of comics I had as a kid, then a few of the movies. At least half of the names on the list are names wholly unfamiliar to me. That said, there are names that are obviously related or have other ties to one another. Something that occurred to me late last night -- Two-Face. He's a pretty major villain, he's on the list...I expect he's here. But in what capacity? Think about it -- there are so many ways he could be utilized... --There could be two players, each playing one half of Harvey Dent's personality. --He could be both do-gooder and scum, depending on which personality is dominant at the time (maybe alternating days or something) --He could be Harvey-Dent: do-gooder, until someone attacks him and blows his plastic-surgery apart and he goes back to being Two-Face, loyal town Baddie. And that's just one guy...the number of unknowns here blows me away...
|
|
|
Post by Drain Bead on Mar 24, 2008 14:54:04 GMT -5
This game is giving me a headache. I suspect at the end of it we'll all ge speaking in some sort of elagorate code.
A few things agout stuff I've noticed today. First, the case against atarus is a good one, almost good enough for a vote from me. The defense was especially weak. I can't see how he got "in favor of the name claim" from even that post he quoted in his defense.
storyteller's vote on Hal Griston rugs me the wrong way. I'm not saying the list is particularly useful, although it does cement in my mind the proposition that the scum got fake names or even completely crafted fake role claims. Kat's claim seemed very much like my own, and while I know enough people had posted enough portions of theirs to give a good starting point, the voice that the claim was written in seemed very Rooshlike and not very Katlike. Anyway, I digress. Pointing out that Hal's tool is not very useful to us is one thing. Voting him for attempting to utilize it is entirely another. story's name claim and his apparent connection with confirmed-town Koldanar is enough to make me gelieve that story is not scum at this point, but I'm still not sure what to think agout him.
Finally, I dougt that Hal's final proposition about Two-Face is accurate. Having someone ge scum and then switch to town would be pretty awful. I'd see it more likely the other way around. Gut speculating too much about roles that aren't in the game is silly and a waste of time.
GTW, in case it wasn't ogvious, I technically have two names. Hal, are they listed separately on your list?
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 15:00:06 GMT -5
GTW, in case it wasn't ogvious, I technically have two names. Hal, are they listed separately on your list? Ahh, nope...neither your "real name" nor the name of your little friend appear on the list.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 15:03:08 GMT -5
Pointing out that Hal's tool is not very useful to us is one thing. Voting him for attempting to utilize it is entirely another. <sigh> I feel like I need a macro for this. I am not voting for him "for attempting to utilize it." I'm voting for him because I don't believe his story, which is filled with - sing it with me if you know the tune - implausibility. I am curious why so many people have accepted Hal's claim at face value, without a hint of question. Do you honestly trust Hal so completely that you're ready to swallow his story? And if so, from whence comes this wholly unearned trust?
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 15:08:30 GMT -5
The hell? One of you two must be lying. Either Drain Gead must not be the Ventriloquist, or Hal must not have a list of every name in the game. But if Drain Gead is lying, why wouldn't he use one of the cover names provided by the mods? But if Hal is lying, why would he say that the Ventriloquist isn't on his non-existent list? I don't understand what's happening here.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 15:11:03 GMT -5
The hell? One of you two must be lying. Either Drain Gead must not be the Ventriloquist, or Hal must not have a list of every name in the game. But if Drain Gead is lying, why wouldn't he use one of the cover names provided by the mods? But if Hal is lying, why would he say that the Ventriloquist isn't on his non-existent list? I don't understand what's happening here. I read Hal's statement to mean that while "The Ventriloquist" appeared on his list, neither his real name - "Arnold Wesker" - nor the name of his dummy - "Scarface" - did.
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 15:13:16 GMT -5
Ah. Ok, now that would make sense.
|
|
|
Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 24, 2008 15:42:38 GMT -5
Okay, I have a feeling that eventually my name's going to come up in blue several times, so I'm just going to say this once as this is pretty much the only thing I can say about the infraction that is (probably) going to end up being my main case.
I am town. I made a stupid. It was a really really really stupid stupid, but a stupid nonetheless. If you want to lynch me for it, sure go ahead, I don't blame you. It was a stupid mistake and I should have proofread a bit better than I did. (What can I say, I absolutely suck at multitasking.) But hopefully discussion will continue about other things because if I have to continually keep saying "I'm town. I made a stupid" it's not going to give me any chance to prove that it was just a mistake.
In the idea of at least continuing discussion, I have a line of thought that's been somewhat bugging me about Kat's role-claim. (And yes, I went back and reread her role claim about 20 gazillion times to make sure I read it right. Heh.) Kat was just a "Goon" so she didn't have a unique power to add to her role-claim. Considering this is a no vanilla game, she had to have come up with Vigilante for a reason. Now there are two ways she had her role PM, either pre-fabricated (given to her by a mod) or self-fabricated.
Pre-Fabricated: The mods gave her the vigilante role claim as a fake claim. Does this mean there isn't a vigilante on the town side? Because why give the scum a fake claim if somebody else can come out and say "Hey! I'm the vigilante, she's lying!"? Furthermore, nobody that was around at the time of her claim counterclaimed her vigilante-ness. Of course, this is a very, very small addition that could help out my theory of how the Joker could be a pro-town Day vigilante and wasn't around at the end of the day to change his kill from Koldanar to somebody else. (Yay run-on sentence.) On the other hand, two people were attacked last night (at least) which points to at least some sort of night attacker that's not the Do-Gooders.
Self-Fabricated: When I say self-fabricated, I mean that she was given a name but not a role, and the rest had to be filled in. (Or completely fabricated, but I'm working under the assumption that Hal does have a list of possible names.) Why would Kat choose Vigilante as a role? There's been talk in past games about whether a vigilante is actually useful for the town or not. (Obvious example: In fluiddruid's game on the Dope the vigilante was encouraged NOT to kill.) So not only would it not be a town role that could be considered valuable and keep her out of trouble if needs be, but if asked to tell who she attacked, she could have probably easily been outed within a Day or two. Of course, I suppose she could try and take credit for the scum's kills at Night but eventually you'd think we'd catch on to something like that.
I'm guessing between the two, it seems more logical that Kat (and the rest of the scum) already had full pre-fabricated role claims at their availability. I can't see why Kat would *choose* to make herself a Vigilante. I know this is probably just beating a dead horse at this point but I think if we can determine if the scum's fake claims are scum-made or mod-made it might help us in rooting out which claims are real and which ones are fake later down the road.
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 15:49:48 GMT -5
The typical response to a fake Vig claim is not a counter-claim but a night-kill. But if the scum have a Doctor, that's not an issue for the scum, is it?
|
|
|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 15:50:32 GMT -5
I think that given the fact that Kat's roleclaim really sounded like RoOsh (as stated) and accepting for now that Hal has a list of names with her role name on it...
...we have to lean heavily towards pre-fabricated here.
|
|
|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 16:10:32 GMT -5
Kat's roleclaim really sounded like RoOsh (as stated) I should probably clarify. What I mean is that it sounds similar to the language and tone used in the rest of the game, it sounds like it was written by our 2-headed modster.
|
|
|
Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 24, 2008 16:15:12 GMT -5
Pointing out that Hal's tool is not very useful to us is one thing. Voting him for attempting to utilize it is entirely another. <sigh> I feel like I need a macro for this. I am not voting for him "for attempting to utilize it." I'm voting for him because I don't believe his story, which is filled with - sing it with me if you know the tune - implausibility. I am curious why so many people have accepted Hal's claim at face value, without a hint of question. Do you honestly trust Hal so completely that you're ready to swallow his story? And if so, from whence comes this wholly unearned trust? No, I think it's quite possible that he's a wolf. My analysis of the Kat voting would seem to bear out that possibility. I'd still like to see how this thing turns out before I start switching votes though.
|
|
|
Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 24, 2008 16:40:55 GMT -5
There is no Leonardo Da Vinci role in this game. I had to look this up: Jesus. Maybe NAF and DrainGead got off easy... .otavort è is sedemoiD !odranoeL id icniV ad ilacidelaM
|
|
|
Post by Drain Bead on Mar 24, 2008 16:53:38 GMT -5
The hell? One of you two must be lying. Either Drain Gead must not be the Ventriloquist, or Hal must not have a list of every name in the game. But if Drain Gead is lying, why wouldn't he use one of the cover names provided by the mods? But if Hal is lying, why would he say that the Ventriloquist isn't on his non-existent list? I don't understand what's happening here. I read Hal's statement to mean that while "The Ventriloquist" appeared on his list, neither his real name - "Arnold Wesker" - nor the name of his dummy - "Scarface" - did. It's a good thing you said that, gecause I was agout to vote for Hal for it too. I still find it odd that it doesn't mention Scarface, gecause my role PM did. Clearly I am not saying what my powers are, although I will complain that they are certainly not worth the effort I have to put forth for this role. Gastard mod, indeed.
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 24, 2008 17:00:03 GMT -5
For the record, I'm not "buying" anything from anyone other than NAF and Mole or what is in the reveals upon death, and even then I am trying to sanity check what my fellow masons say, and I hope they are doing the same for what I say.
I am playing devil's advocate and trying to give assumption disclaimers as much as possible, but just because I assume something doesn't mean I'm not also assuming the opposite with the next breath, whether or not I happen to post from both points of view.
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 17:07:41 GMT -5
I read Hal's statement to mean that while "The Ventriloquist" appeared on his list, neither his real name - "Arnold Wesker" - nor the name of his dummy - "Scarface" - did. I read it that way too (although I had the advantage of writing it as well). But to clarify, that's correct -- neither "Arnold Wesker" nor "Scarface" appear on the list.
|
|
|
Post by sinjin on Mar 24, 2008 17:19:21 GMT -5
Wowsers, sorry to be so late to the party. First before I forget in what follows:
Hal: Is Kat's claimed name on the list?
Ok, I was on-line for a bit this am, but had to do a 6 hr drive, so didn't want to post what I'm about to post and then disappear. So here we go;
I posted this last Night, in order to attract a night kill attempt:
I wanted to imply I had a magic bag without coming right out and saying I had a magic bag, and it worked, w00t!
I am:
<sinjin reaches into her magic bag and pulls out........not a rabbit, but a cat. Specifically, a CatinaSuit!> Bad, Cat, Bad for attacking a Croc in a leaf suit. You ruined my favorite and most stratigically placed leaves.
vote CatinaSuit
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 17:34:02 GMT -5
Pointing out that Hal's tool is not very useful to us is one thing. Voting him for attempting to utilize it is entirely another. <sigh> I feel like I need a macro for this. I am not voting for him "for attempting to utilize it." I'm voting for him because I don't believe his story, which is filled with - sing it with me if you know the tune - implausibility. Exactly, yeah, it must be tough having to reiterate that point over and over and...oh, waitaminute...<quick search>...yeah, there were exactly zero instances of this coming up before drain mentioned it. Hyperbole, much? Vote however you like -- the mods are surely having a ball laughing their asses off at you for stubbornly clinging to your idea that everything here has to make sense. Your analysis has served you and your team very well in previous games. Unfortunately, it's becoming clear that that same level of analysis is going to be detrimental to the town here (whether that's part of your plan or not).
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 17:34:59 GMT -5
Per my various posts, I have been inclined to vote for CatinaSuit anyway, so I'm certainly ready to believe. On the other hand, there are other explanations, of course - that you yourself are scum, or that Suit is a pro-Town Vig. Let's see if Cat chooses to deny attacking sinjin at all, or if he role claims a Vig, and go from there.
|
|
|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 17:35:01 GMT -5
<sinjin reaches into her magic bag and pulls out........not a rabbit, but a cat. Specifically, a CatinaSuit!> Bad, Cat, Bad for attacking a Croc in a leaf suit. You ruined my favorite and most stratigically placed leaves. Ha! Great catch there, sinjin. Oh, and once more, with feeling; vote CatInASuit.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 17:39:42 GMT -5
Vote however you like -- the mods are surely having a ball laughing their asses off at you for stubbornly clinging to your idea that everything here has to make sense. Your analysis has served you and your team very well in previous games. Unfortunately, it's becoming clear that that same level of analysis is going to be detrimental to the town here (whether that's part of your plan or not). You know what? One of us provided the deciding vote that nailed scum yesterDay. The other is still trying to cast suspicion on someone (me) who was confirmed by a confirmed townie, while using his own vote on someone yesterDay for doing exactly the same thing. So I'm going to stick with my approach to the game, OK?
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Mar 24, 2008 17:45:21 GMT -5
Is it time for a votecount already?
CatinaSuit 2 (sinjin,tdpatriots12) Hal Briston 1 (storyteller) Atarus 2 (molefan1981,NAF1138)
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 17:45:22 GMT -5
That last post came out pissier than I intended it to. All I really mean to say is that I strongly disagree that there isn't a rational approach to this game, and I remain convinced that looking for the things that don't make sense, that don't scan, will eventually lead us to where we want to be. In other words, I see no particular reason to abandon our usual approach.
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 24, 2008 18:02:56 GMT -5
:coughs:sinj's, word is :coughs:good enough for me:coughs:for the moment:coughs::coughs:.
unvote atarus
vote CIAS
:coughs:
But let's not end the Day early if at all possible. I think there is some more good scum hunting we can do toDay.
|
|