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Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 18:05:36 GMT -5
Excellent deduction, Miss Marple... My playstyle is to try and poke as many holes into whatever is on the table at the time. Doesn't matter if I have to put myself in the mindset of town or of scum -- trying to knock theories apart is a terrific way to find an avenue worth pursuing. That theory holds itself together very well. Strong FOS on AtarusThis post bugs the hell out of me the more times that I read it. It's not just the fact that this is a "me too" post. What really stands out is how effusive Hal is being with his praise of me. It really feels like Hal wants me to read this and say "I am so smrt! I am so smrt!", when really wants he's trying to do is encourage discussion in the direction he wants(which is away from himself). I fell for this is M2 when story and Rugger pulled it on me. So lets make sure that in the coming atarus and CAIS brouhahas, we don't forget about Hal here. And on preview: Yeah, this doesn't scan at all. I post analysis of atarus and you love it. story analyses your claim and you say that analysis is going to prove detrimental to the town? The hell? Strong FOS on HalBut despite the above, I still think that atarus is scum. mole originally FOSed him at the end of Day 1 because nobody has said a peep about him. Now, obviously that complaint doesn't hold toDay but it's an interesting point. I'm not sure that I buy it(for reasons I'll explain below), but I mention it for completeness. NAF pointed out a postefrom atarus that very well could have been gloating. This isn't much on its own, but it's a very good piece of supporting evidence. mole pointed out how atarus' actions at the end of yesterDay look an awful lot like somebody trying to divert attention away from Kat. I pointed out that atarus was completely wrong about Kat's opinions about the name claim in a post he claimed was inspired by a re-read of Kat. I provide analysis of how this could be a case of scum being sloppy in their arguments(which, whatever Hal wants us all to think, was not air-tight.). Finally, I have something new to bring up. My notes on Atarus are pretty short: "Keeping his nose clean. Watch him carefully." I mentioned this at the beginning of the game but it's worth re-iterating: I've noticed several people comment recently about how the town has a tendency to lynch the players in the biggest "storylines", especially early in the game. So the best strategy for scum is to stay out of things and keep their nose clean. And that's what it looked to me like atarus was doing Day 1. Given all this: Vote atarusIf CIAS does not provide a claim I'm willing to switch to wring it out of him.
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Post by NAF1138 on Mar 24, 2008 18:20:52 GMT -5
Excellent deduction, Miss Marple... My playstyle is to try and poke as many holes into whatever is on the table at the time. Doesn't matter if I have to put myself in the mindset of town or of scum -- trying to knock theories apart is a terrific way to find an avenue worth pursuing. That theory holds itself together very well. Strong FOS on AtarusThis post bugs the hell out of me the more times that I read it. It's not just the fact that this is a "me too" post. What really stands out is how effusive Hal is being with his praise of me. It really feels like Hal wants me to read this and say "I am so smrt! I am so smrt!", when really wants he's trying to do is encourage discussion in the direction he wants(which is away from himself). I fell for this is M2 when story and Rugger pulled it on me. So lets make sure that in the coming atarus and CAIS brouhahas, we don't forget about Hal here. And on preview: Yeah, this doesn't scan at all. I post analysis of atarus and you love it. story analyses your claim and you say that analysis is going to prove detrimental to the town? The hell? Strong FOS on HalBut despite the above, I still think that atarus is scum. mole originally FOSed him at the end of Day 1 because nobody has said a peep about him. Now, obviously that complaint doesn't hold toDay but it's an interesting point. I'm not sure that I buy it(for reasons I'll explain below), but I mention it for completeness. NAF pointed out a postefrom atarus that very well could have been gloating. This isn't much on its own, but it's a very good piece of supporting evidence. mole pointed out how atarus' actions at the end of yesterDay look an awful lot like somebody trying to divert attention away from Kat. I pointed out that atarus was completely wrong about Kat's opinions about the name claim in a post he claimed was inspired by a re-read of Kat. I provide analysis of how this could be a case of scum being sloppy in their arguments(which, whatever Hal wants us all to think, was not air-tight.). Finally, I have something new to bring up. My notes on Atarus are pretty short: "Keeping his nose clean. Watch him carefully." I mentioned this at the beginning of the game but it's worth re-iterating: I've noticed several people comment recently about how the town has a tendency to lynch the players in the biggest "storylines", especially early in the game. So the best strategy for scum is to stay out of things and keep their nose clean. And that's what it looked to me like atarus was doing Day 1. Given all this: Vote atarusIf CIAS does not provide a claim I'm willing to switch to wring it out of him. :coughs:Perponderance of evidence. :coughs: Sach and I were talking about a similar thing not too long before this game started (I know how much sach likes a good reference to himself) :coughs:. I quite agree that atarus fits the preponderance of evidence formula. :coughs:I am just personally more interested in finding out what is up with CIAS and sinj first. :coughs:
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Post by Drain Bead on Mar 24, 2008 18:24:42 GMT -5
What if CIAS is some sort of vig or pro-town killer? Then again, if we're assuming that the mods gave the scum full false roleclaims, it would ge pretty mean to give a scum a role that town already had, especially Vigilante--if she had lived through the Day, a pro-town Vig would have offed her at Night. A lot of assumptions I'm making there, I know, gut we can't ignore a night kill attempt. The way I look at it, there's three options--he's a Do-Gooder, Playing for Keeps, or a pro-town night killer. Odds are, scum of some sort.
Vote CIAS[/color]
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 24, 2008 18:26:17 GMT -5
I have no problem placing a vote on Cat again, but I'll wait to here what he has to say for himself first.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Mar 24, 2008 18:35:09 GMT -5
I quite agree that atarus fits the preponderance of evidence formula. :coughs:I am just personally more interested in finding out what is up with CIAS and sinj first. :coughs:Plus, if sinj is telling the truth, that explains how she survived the nightkill that the mods said she survived. However, do we know for certain that you were a target of a kill or was it something else? I know the assumption we've been going with was a kill attempt, which you seem to support: ...but was it really a kill, or some other nefarious attack? I'm just saying we shouldn't assume anything unless the mods specifically mention it. We don't know for certain anyone was protecting you unless they come out and say it. We also don't at this point know the full implications of your shark resistance.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Mar 24, 2008 18:35:31 GMT -5
I'm also considering a vote for the Sharp-Dressed Cat.
The main reason I haven't done so, I will admit, is that I want to think the implications of Sinjin's actions through first. Is she, just maybe, one of those Baddies whou are out to settle scores with other inmates? That is, is she playing for keeps while CIAS is but a poor innocent villain who's been framed (for this at least?)
Or is the Sharp-Dressed Cat a do-gooder Night-killer?
While I can't see any angle for Sinjin immediately, I want to think the question through before voting.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Mar 24, 2008 18:49:43 GMT -5
Death by Irony is subbing in for kassia
Please do not speed-lynch her for information.
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Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 18:51:15 GMT -5
Man, now there are four viable lynch candidates.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 24, 2008 18:53:13 GMT -5
I voted for CIAS yesterday and will certainly consider him again today, but I want to hear what he has to say about the attack on sinjin first.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 24, 2008 18:54:11 GMT -5
Death by Irony is subbing in for kassiaPlease do not speed-lynch her for information. Awww. You Mods are no fun. *kicks toe in the dirt*
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Post by Holy Moley! on Mar 24, 2008 19:07:22 GMT -5
Hmmmm... how interesting. Let's see where this one leads us.
Unvote Atarus.
Vote CatInASuit.
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Post by sinjin on Mar 24, 2008 19:22:20 GMT -5
Grrrr sorry I've been gone again. I've been on the ****ing phone since I posted. I didn't know I was so **** popular and people would miss me if I went away for 10 days. Anyway, it never occurred to me that I would be vigged last Night. Because of my vacation, I wasn't really here to play much. yesterDay. I did have a reason to try to get night attacked sooner rather than later (part of this was included in the snipped pm stuff and part has to do with the lynch tie/modkill bit that was not included with my pm). I left it out so as not to confuse the issues. I probably could have handled this better, but just presenting the facts seemed the best idea. I would also like to know why Rysto immediately assumed I had been vigged: So two questions: 1) Story, do you really think that I'm scum and would trade myself for Cat when I don't even have much suspicion being tossed my way? 2) Rysto, do you really think that scum can't night kill?
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Post by kassia on Mar 24, 2008 19:25:43 GMT -5
sorry guys - have fun!
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Mar 24, 2008 19:27:38 GMT -5
I will be happy to place a vote on CatinaSuit, based on Sinjin's evidence*.
However, I will not make my vote official, until we've heard from Catinasuit. I wouldn't want to see an immediate lynch triggered until Cat has a chance to respond.
*I note this because I am accepting Sinjin's claim at face value at present. But I do have one little nagging doubt in my mind about the claim.
Sinjin has said she was hoping to attract a night kill by a post in the night thread. A pretty subtle magic bag post I think.
So either A) Sinjin was already high on the list of potential victims of the scum (or Vig), and the post had no effect, (so Sinjin just thought she was attracting attention to use her cool power but actually wasn't ), or B) the post had the desired effect of drawing the scum's attention, how likely is it that a fairly last minute post would draw enough attention to Sinjin?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 19:28:29 GMT -5
The main reason I haven't done so, I will admit, is that I want to think the implications of Sinjin's actions through first. Is she, just maybe, one of those Baddies whou are out to settle scores with other inmates? That is, is she playing for keeps while CIAS is but a poor innocent villain who's been framed (for this at least?) Coming as it did out of nowhere, sinjin's claim would be tremendously foolish if (1) it has no basis in fact; and (2) she is a solo agent as you suggest. If we lynch CIAS toDay, and he has no killing role at all, then sinjin will be lynched as a liar toMorrow. I see only the following possibilities as plausible: 1. sinjin is telling the gospel truth, and CIAS is a pro-Town Vig; from our standpoint, the worst possibility, because we will wind up spending time hashing this out and no scum is involved. 2. sinjin is telling the truth about her power and her discovery last Night, but she is scum or a third party and CIAS is a pro-Town Vig. Troublesome, because there would be no lie to identify. Bear in mind, this is exactly what she did in her last game - claimed her true power, but a false alignment. 3. sinjin is telling the gospel truth, and CIAS is either SK or scum. From our standpoint, the best possible outcome, because we'd nail scum or a third party enemy. Honestly, while I was inclined to vote for CIAS, I am beginning to think that might indeed be a pro-Town Vig. I mean, NAF's experience suggests that the scum actually attacked him. The Joker seems like an SK, based on his choice of target. Which means in order for CIAS to be an anti-Town player, there would have to be at least three anti-Town killers (the Joker, CIAS, and the scum). Is there then also a pro-Town Vig, allowing for up to five deaths per Day/Night cycle? That's awfully bloody. If CIAS claims pro-Town Vig, I don't rightly know how to sort out the truth of the situation. This bears some thinking.
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Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 19:29:22 GMT -5
2) Rysto, do you really think that scum can't night kill? Well, like I said, it would be out of character for Batman to kill. And the Joker's group gets to Day Kill, and giving them a night kill as well would be way too powerful. Now, maybe some other Do-Gooder is night killing, and the Bat's attacks are just an annoyance for us.
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Post by sinjin on Mar 24, 2008 19:49:56 GMT -5
2) Rysto, do you really think that scum can't night kill? Well, like I said, it would be out of character for Batman to kill. And the Joker's group gets to Day Kill, and giving them a night kill as well would be way too powerful. Now, maybe some other Do-Gooder is night killing, and the Bat's attacks are just an annoyance for us. Wait a minute. Let me try to parse this answer: 1) Batman doesn't kill. (so not scum?) 2) Joker's group kills during the day and so can't kill at night too. (I'm leaning towards a Joker group, base on Koldanar's kill, but I don't know that for a fact. Do you?) 3) Some other Do-Gooder group is killing at night. (What other Do-Gooder group? I am fighting against the Do-Gooders, who are you fighting against?) 4) Batman is just an annoyance? (So he's not a Do-Gooder?) I am so not getting this.
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Post by Death By Irony on Mar 24, 2008 19:52:17 GMT -5
This is revenge for semi-bastard modding Three Kingdoms, isn't it?
Figures you guys would out-Roosh Roosh in his own game.
Good thing I was sort of following along. But I'm actually going to have to keep more serious notes now.
As far as speculation goes, I'm not a fan of it--in this game, the scum only know marginally more than the rest of the players (namely, who their scumbuddies are, but if Roosh and Dio were humongous bastards they might not have even given them that!)--we can guess until we're blue in the face, but we have to be very careful not to out potential power roles (because consciously or otherwise they may show signs of having Too Much Information).
As far as sinjin's claim goes, storyteller has already covered the basis, so I'm going to wait to see if CatInASuit is going to say anything. Meanwhile, here's a nice pointy FoS CIAS.
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 19:55:14 GMT -5
That last post came out pissier than I intended it to. Nice to hear that...I responded with a pretty damn frothing retort that, and had I not just returned from my evening family time to find that the post hadn't gone through, I'd be looking to tone things down as well. The gist: You know what? One of us provided the deciding vote that nailed scum yesterDay. True, but that was also the case in M2. The other is still trying to cast suspicion on someone (me) who was confirmed by a confirmed townie... Yes, Kolandar is confirmed, and he has a tie-in to you, but that doesn't equal you being confirmed as well. There's no reason the connection between you two couldn't bridge sides. That said, you probably are town...but I can see your insistence that things have to make sense as a major block to me fully trusting you in this one.
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Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 20:05:30 GMT -5
I'm not being very clear here. Batman, in any canon I'm aware of(which isn't much, I have to admit) does not kill. I could see Batman being aligned with other Do Gooders who do kill. But I have a really hard time seeing Batman himself as a night-killer.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 20:06:22 GMT -5
That said, you probably are town...but I can see your insistence that things have to make sense as a major block to me fully trusting you in this one. Let me put it this way: If the game doesn't ultimately make sense - if Roosh and Diomedes have intentionally designed the game to be nonsensical and uninterpretable, if literally anything is possible, then the outcome of the game will essentially be random. No matter how complex the set-up may be, it should be explicable with sufficient information (and note that none of the information we've confirmed so far has ben nonsensical - complex and Byzantine, perhaps, but not nonsensical). If it's not, then this is all academic. But I really doubt the mods designed that sort of game. And your claim makes no sense in the context of that belief. So that's where I am now. But we have larger matters to deal with right now, so more at a later date.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 24, 2008 20:14:44 GMT -5
Welcome to Arkham, Dotchan.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 24, 2008 20:18:04 GMT -5
I'm not being very clear here. Batman, in any canon I'm aware of(which isn't much, I have to admit) does not kill. I could see Batman being aligned with other Do Gooders who do kill. But I have a really hard time seeing Batman himself as a night-killer. I'll start the rest of my replies from the beginning, but this one jumped out at me. Batman does kill in this game. Or at least attempts to.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Mar 24, 2008 20:18:44 GMT -5
The main reason I haven't done so, I will admit, is that I want to think the implications of Sinjin's actions through first. Is she, just maybe, one of those Baddies whou are out to settle scores with other inmates? That is, is she playing for keeps while CIAS is but a poor innocent villain who's been framed (for this at least?) Coming as it did out of nowhere, sinjin's claim would be tremendously foolish if (1) it has no basis in fact; and (2) she is a solo agent as you suggest. If we lynch CIAS toDay, and he has no killing role at all, then sinjin will be lynched as a liar toMorrow. I see only the following possibilities as plausible: 1. sinjin is telling the gospel truth, and CIAS is a pro-Town Vig; from our standpoint, the worst possibility, because we will wind up spending time hashing this out and no scum is involved. 2. sinjin is telling the truth about her power and her discovery last Night, but she is scum or a third party and CIAS is a pro-Town Vig. Troublesome, because there would be no lie to identify. Bear in mind, this is exactly what she did in her last game - claimed her true power, but a false alignment. 3. sinjin is telling the gospel truth, and CIAS is either SK or scum. From our standpoint, the best possible outcome, because we'd nail scum or a third party enemy. Honestly, while I was inclined to vote for CIAS, I am beginning to think that might indeed be a pro-Town Vig. I mean, NAF's experience suggests that the scum actually attacked him. The Joker seems like an SK, based on his choice of target. Which means in order for CIAS to be an anti-Town player, there would have to be at least three anti-Town killers (the Joker, CIAS, and the scum). Is there then also a pro-Town Vig, allowing for up to five deaths per Day/Night cycle? That's awfully bloody. If CIAS claims pro-Town Vig, I don't rightly know how to sort out the truth of the situation. This bears some thinking. I was brainstorming in the open - getting ideas out without quality-checking them first. I'm a bit puzzled about you thinking I'm suggesting Sinjin is a solo agent. One of the scenarios I had in mind was Sinjin being a member of a group of people playing to win on their own, and I don't think you've adequately covered that. My memory must be failing; I remember Drainbead claiming her name and power in the Firefly game and telling the exact truth about everything except her alignment, but not Sinjin. (If you're thinking about your game, yes it's very close, but Sinjin lied about her effects as well, remember.) My inclination is to believe Sinjin - I just didn't want other possibilities to pass unconsidered. I doubt whether we'll see what the Sharp Dressed Cat has to say for a good few hours though. So until then I will not be voting.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 24, 2008 20:50:19 GMT -5
<snip>Atarus strongly supports Santo in his Cookies suspicions and says "my vote will land on either Cookies or Diggit". Now that we know Kat was scum, this whole post reads wrong to me. It's a quarter of the way down page eight on the second thread of Day one. Read it!<snip> And, for your viewing pleasure: psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=tempy&action=display&thread=295&page=8#19173I agree with mole that this was a not-so-subtle attempt to save Kat and get the vote moved off of her. My trouble is that it seems to make we've made a nicely wrapped little package, with diggit being scum because he hounded Kat (no pun intended), and atarus being scum because he "defended" her. It just seems too convenient to have "caught" four scum this early in the game. As scummy as it's going to sound, I can't imagine both diggit and atarus being Do Gooders.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 24, 2008 20:52:46 GMT -5
Note that I do have real concerns with one player in that respect - Santo. I could imagine his late actions being a belated attempt to disassociate himself from Kat, having tied himself to her a little obviously earlier on. But Diggit? I'm not really worried about him for the time being. If evidence comes up to the contrary, of course, I'll look at him again. Wait, what? How'd I tie myself to Kat? And why would I do that if I knew she was scum?
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 24, 2008 20:53:50 GMT -5
story, don't discount the possibility that Hal was given a worthless list.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 24, 2008 20:59:32 GMT -5
Okay, it's time for me to pull out another nitpicky thing that I noticed. This could be completely worthless but I thought I would throw this out there.
We've had four "exact claims" so far, exact claim meaning they quote their role claims supposedly. They are Hoopy, zuma, Kat, and sinjin. If there are more that I'm missing please let me know but I don't think anybody else has revealed their character name in context of their role PM. I know storyteller revealed his name but not the whole PM he had.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is this.
Hoopy Frood's claim was as follows:
Zuma's claim was as follows:
(I am not entirely sure if this Joe Chill AKA Joe Chill is sarcasm on zuma's part. Heh.)
Kat's "claim" was as follows:
Sinjin's claim is:
Now does anybody see any similarities between Kat and sinjin's claim that has differences between zuma and Hoopy's?
Right...in Hoopy's (I don't know if zuma was just being sarcastic or not in his claim) the "supervillainish" name came first, followed by the normal name. In Kat's fake claim and sinjin's claim, the normal name came first, followed by the supervillain name.
I'm just bringing this up because I know I'm town, and my role PM is similar to Hoopy's not Kat or sinjin's, in that it's ordered [supervillain name] AKA [normal name].
I know this is extremely nitpicky and is probably absolutely nothing. The easiest way to find out if it means nothing is for one (or all) of the masons to just simply say what order it was in their PM, I would think, without even revealing their names.
In other news, if it turns this line of reasoning is completely bunk and dumb, and Cat's explanation isn't incredibly awesome, then I'm all for stringing him up.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 24, 2008 21:00:23 GMT -5
Aye, I do see such a group. :coughs:that's :coughs:good :coughs:enough :coughs:for :coughs:me. Really? Unless there's something I'm missing, how can him saying there is such a group, when you already said there was such a group, mean anything at all?
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 24, 2008 21:02:22 GMT -5
2) Rysto, do you really think that scum can't night kill? Well, like I said, it would be out of character for Batman to kill. And the Joker's group gets to Day Kill, and giving them a night kill as well would be way too powerful. Now, maybe some other Do-Gooder is night killing, and the Bat's attacks are just an annoyance for us. This post is giving me all kinds of red flags. You've made the leap that the Joker has a group, and it is a day-killing group. I can see listing this as a possibility, but you seem to be taking it as fact. The only way I can see you doing that is if you already know it is a fact. Making a mental note to resume this train of thought after the CIAS has made a defense.
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