Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Apr 1, 2008 16:52:03 GMT -5
HUZZAH!
::: Picks up Smite Hammer (TM) :::
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 1, 2008 17:01:31 GMT -5
WOOHOO!!! We are back in business! ok, so my first thought is sort of out of game but the recent weirdness of toDay has me thinking about it. Mods, do we get extra time in the Day because of this nonsense, and do you guys have a backup plan of sorts in place in case weirdness like this happens again?(I am thinking more proboards going down, but I suppose Idle going power mad again is something that we need to worry about too. to Idle btw. April Fools indeed! ) Huh, now that I have written the above, it turns out that it is my only thought at the moment. I swear I had more when I started. Anyway, do we have backups of the boards at least, you know, just in case? I have backed up the first two days of discussion. We'll discuss an extension if there's a major outage. As is, the board was probably only down for about 6 hours on Monday. We have no contingency plans for power-mad admins, nor do we plan on instituting them. Mr. Freeze essentially gave you guys an extra day; use what's left of it wisely. If there's some permanent outtage of Proboards, we don't have a good contiongency plan. In that case, the game will be cancelled and RoOsh and I will horde the secrets of our game design all to ourselves.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 1, 2008 17:05:48 GMT -5
That's all my thoughts for now. Also, vote BlaMbecause I don't have a clear suspect yet and I think recent events with zuma tell me that he isn't a Baddie. Metagamey as hell? Yes, but I don't think we should worry about that now. Sorry to put you in this situation right out of the gate BlaM, but I don't know why zuma would have left thinking that he was losing the game if he was a Baddie. We seem to be doing fairly well. Can you substantiate this a bit more for me? I am aware of some of the bizarre things that Zuma did, but I haven't read them in context. And to Death by Irony, no I did not inherit any PMs or notes from Zuma. All I have is the role PM and a brief summary provided by one of our illustrious mods. I still have several hundred posts to read, but I'm caught up on Day three at least, so I'll try to at least stay current here while I catch up on Days One and Two.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 1, 2008 17:11:51 GMT -5
Yay! Board back to normal!
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 1, 2008 17:14:28 GMT -5
Cookies, this may get lost if it's not brought up again, but what did you mean when you said the Joker/Day kills were poisonings?
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Post by sinjin on Apr 1, 2008 17:40:50 GMT -5
W00t good to be back to normal.
A question about Hockey Monkey's powers and conclusions yesterday. Both atarus's and Hoopy's blocking powers were labeled as anti-town yesterday, but not too much was said about HM's. As I understand it she is 1/2 investigator, 1/2 vig with no choice of which 1/2 of the power is invoked on a given night. Her investigative power only returns the role name of the investigatee, not their alignment. This power does nothing for the Baddies unless the investigatee is Batman because of the ambiquity of the roles in the Batverse. So we are left with her 1/2 vig power.
Given that she investigated Cat on Night one she must have been mighty suspicious of him. Why else take the chance that instead of learning his name she would off him. She even said this: But upon learning his name, Hush, on Day two she was convinced that he was not a Do-Gooder.
Why the sudden change of heart?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 1, 2008 17:44:16 GMT -5
Cookies, this may get lost if it's not brought up again, but what did you mean when you said the Joker/Day kills were poisonings? I followed up on that here: Ryjae's poison post is a bit of a stretch as a potential slip/tell, I'll admit. In case this is a case of my gut being accurate but my brain being a bit behind the curve, I'd like to review Ryjae thoroughly (and without a case of the Mondays clouding my brain) and I'll post a summary. For whatever reason I keyed in on the green hair and painted grin more than the electrocution in Koldanar's death color, which sparked what few memories I have of the Batman canon and the Joker's various poisonings through the years, not to mention what I recall of how he came to be the Joker, by falling into a vat of some sort of goo that gave him the do and the mug that we all know and love today. I doubt I'll be taken up on it, but feel free to file that particular portion of the post as Cookies not knowing what the hell she's talking about. All of the stuff regarding my reservations on trusting the color (or partially trusting it, or using it as some sort of tool) stands, though. Sinjin didn't like that post very much... Now that the boards are back, I am in the process of making good on my Ryjae crawl, and shall report back with whatever conclusion I come to.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 1, 2008 17:59:55 GMT -5
And we're back. Awesome. So our Day is essentially three days long this time around, which means no dithering; straight to work. W00t good to be back to normal. A question about Hockey Monkey's powers and conclusions yesterday. Both atarus's and Hoopy's blocking powers were labeled as anti-town yesterday, but not too much was said about HM's. As I understand it she is 1/2 investigator, 1/2 vig with no choice of which 1/2 of the power is invoked on a given night. Her investigative power only returns the role name of the investigatee, not their alignment. This power does nothing for the Baddies unless the investigatee is Batman because of the ambiquity of the roles in the Batverse. So we are left with her 1/2 vig power. Given that she investigated Cat on Night one she must have been mighty suspicious of him. Why else take the chance that instead of learning his name she would off him. She even said this: But upon learning his name, Hush, on Day two she was convinced that he was not a Do-Gooder. Why the sudden change of heart? It all makes perfect sense, if Hockey is telling the truth. Honestly, we've seen enough of this game to begin theorizing about the basic structure of the game. Our theories could be wrong, but putting them out there at least gives us things about which to talk. So here's mine (all of what follows assumes HM is not lying): I posit that at the outset of the game there were X number of anti-Town players, including some number of Do-Gooders and some other number of free-agent or third-party anti-Town elements. I posit that the Do-Gooders all have "real names" that are canonically aligned with Batman, as Kat did. Thus, the Do-Gooders might be Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Commissioner Gordon, and Alfred. Because revelation of those "real names" would be death for them in the event of a mass role claim, they have been supplied with aliases (ie, Batgirl was given the "safe name" of Azrael). In light of that, Hockey becomes quite powerful as an investigator, because if she targets a Do-Gooder, she will identify them as such. I posit that the various and sundry "Playing for Keeps" elements, whether individuals or groups, were not given safe names. Their real names are villainous (eg, Hush), so they'd be as safe as anyone in the event of a mass name claim. So Hockey's power, if it is as she says it is, makes perfect sense. It is able to identify Do-Gooders as such, but not Serial Killers or other third-party elements, and it is further handcuffed by the fact that it could kill its target. So when Cat claimed Hush, HM knew he was telling the truth about his name, which he obviously wouldn't have done if he was a Do-Gooder. Her mistake was guessing that third-party elements would be given aliases as well as Do-Gooders. There's my theory. Now, hockey monkey's power, exactly as she has described it, would also be tremendously useful for a third-party actor. It probably wouldn't be useful for scum (or, rather, it would be imbalancingly powerful). But in any case, there is a game structure that makes perfect sense in which hockey monkey's power is reasonable, balanced, and pro-Town. I still maintain that there is no sensible explanation for our dear friend Hal's purported List O'Names. Unless and until we see a confirmed game mechanic that makes no sense at all, I will assume that all of the mechanics in the game make sense, and so I remain most suspicious of the esteemed Mr. Briston. There is still much to be done and said toDay, but for now, let's just go ahead and: vote Hal Briston
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 1, 2008 18:16:56 GMT -5
But in any case, there is a game structure that makes perfect sense in which hockey monkey's power is reasonable, balanced, and pro-Town. I still maintain that there is no sensible explanation for our dear friend Hal's purported List O'Names. Unless and until we see a confirmed game mechanic that makes no sense at all, I will assume that all of the mechanics in the game make sense, and so I remain most suspicious of the esteemed Mr. Briston. There is still much to be done and said toDay, but for now, let's just go ahead and: vote Hal BristonI totally agree with you story about HM's game mechanic making sense. I don't agree with you about the quoted bit. Frankly it is the almost entirely nonsensical nature of Hal's power that is giving me pause. I don't know what to do with it, but I can't for the life of me see why he would make something like that up. I don't see what he get's out of it if it isn't true. BlaM I haven't forgotten you, but I think it would be better if you read zuma's meltdown for yourself. It doesn't really work in single quotes, you kind of have to take the whole thing in with all the context and the behavior in out of game threads. It isn't fair to you at all and I understand that. At the same time, I think it is acurate and I don't want to ignore that.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 1, 2008 18:24:21 GMT -5
I might add, story, that if the Joker is playing for keeps, he would also likely have a fake claim available.
The thing that bothers me most about Hal's magic list is that he's not allowed to reveal it, but we can play 20 questions and get the full contents of it out of him. His claim just doesn't make any sense to me.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Apr 1, 2008 18:27:03 GMT -5
W00t good to be back to normal. A question about Hockey Monkey's powers and conclusions yesterday. Both atarus's and Hoopy's blocking powers were labeled as anti-town yesterday, but not too much was said about HM's. As I understand it she is 1/2 investigator, 1/2 vig with no choice of which 1/2 of the power is invoked on a given night. Her investigative power only returns the role name of the investigatee, not their alignment. This power does nothing for the Baddies unless the investigatee is Batman because of the ambiquity of the roles in the Batverse. So we are left with her 1/2 vig power. Given that she investigated Cat on Night one she must have been mighty suspicious of him. Why else take the chance that instead of learning his name she would off him. She even said this: But upon learning his name, Hush, on Day two she was convinced that he was not a Do-Gooder. Why the sudden change of heart? I think I said earlier today that I was unduly influenced by wiki color. My bad. Yes, I was suspicious enough to investigate him, and shouldn't have let the wiki get to me when I found out his name. I'm sorry.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 1, 2008 18:28:11 GMT -5
I might add, story, that if the Joker is playing for keeps, he would also likely have a fake claim available. The thing that bothers me most about Hal's magic list is that he's not allowed to reveal it, but we can play 20 questions and get the full contents of it out of him. His claim just doesn't make any sense to me. He was able to verify the name of the mason group. And do it fairly definitively in my mind. With no prompting from me, and even came up with a clever way to verify that we were talking about the same thing. I am not saying that Hal isn't scum and that the scum don't have a list of this sort, but to me he clearly has a list. I don't understand it's purpose, but I think he either absolutely has it or made the luckiest guess in the history of mafia.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 1, 2008 18:36:20 GMT -5
But I could see a Do-Gooder being given a list of all 24 names in the game. Rather than providing the Do-Gooders with names to claim, the Do-Gooders might instead have a list of all names that aren't safe to claim, and left to make up claims on their own. What if Hal is somebody like Jeremiah Arkham, the director of Arkham?
This is pure speculation(and lord knows I always get myself into trouble when I start reasoning this way), but Hal's claim of having a list at least makes sense this way. I don't see the point of giving Hal a list that also contains the scum's fake claims -- what good does the list do the Town?
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 1, 2008 18:39:49 GMT -5
NAF, you were going to start compiling lists of What We Know. Did you ever get that under way, or was it undermined by the intrusion of rl? Hey, posts I missed because of Idle's prank! I never did get that going. With moving and everything I haven't had any out of work time to make those sorts of lists. It is something I would like to get going before the end of the Day, and I would like someone to volunteer to make a complimentary list. I think the downfall of the "what we know" list in Bladerunner was that I was the only one keeping it. Two independant parties working on it individually will be able to keep each other honest.
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Post by sinjin on Apr 1, 2008 18:41:30 GMT -5
My bad, I totally agree with you Story, if I believe:
1) HM is telling the truth.
2) All the Do-Gooder's have real good names in the Batverse and have all been supplied with alias's.
3) A 1/2 vig/detective that must investigate/kill every night and who's investigation may or may not have meaning (based completely on pt 2 being true) is pro-town.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
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[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 1, 2008 18:46:42 GMT -5
NAF, you were going to start compiling lists of What We Know. Did you ever get that under way, or was it undermined by the intrusion of rl? Hey, posts I missed because of Idle's prank! I never did get that going. With moving and everything I haven't had any out of work time to make those sorts of lists. It is something I would like to get going before the end of the Day, and I would like someone to volunteer to make a complimentary list. I think the downfall of the "what we know" list in Bladerunner was that I was the only one keeping it. Two independant parties working on it individually will be able to keep each other honest. It might be a useful exercise. While I don't mind volunteering to act as a second tracker of What We Know, I'm not willing to even look at the question now until tomorrow afternoon/evening (it being just past quarter to one in the morning here). I've just started reading one particular player's posts because something struck me as odd when compiling a Day 1 voting record. Still only scratched the surface.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Apr 1, 2008 19:21:46 GMT -5
I CAN READ! I can't promise to make any sense out of what I've read but I CAN READ!
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 1, 2008 19:40:16 GMT -5
Also, does anyone have anything to say about brewha's funky posts late yesterDay? At this point, no. However, you do bring up an interesting point, and one that Atarus indirectly echoed: (Note that this post did come after Brewha's vote for him, so it's possible that there's a bit of OMGUS, but out of the list, only Brewha and Hal were among those who voted him, so I don't think OMGUS is an issue here. Note also that his suspicions of CAIS were right on the money.) Since I'm pretty much confuzzled anyway, I'll go analyze brewha. I'll also look up relevant posts that reference him (there are 131 posts that show up when searching for "brewha"). I may get this done tonight, if not, I'll try to get it sometime tomorrow.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 1, 2008 19:42:02 GMT -5
Also, does anyone want to comb through Atarus's posts over the last two days? IIRC, there weren't a whole lot, but it might give us a clue. I can do so after I analyze Brewha, but if somone else wants to do so, be my guest.
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Post by sinjin on Apr 1, 2008 19:48:11 GMT -5
For what it's worth I also do not much value of the List o' Names to either side. There are three possibilities: 1) Hal is Scum and has a list of our role names, but doesn't know the players associated with them. Role names might, but do not necessarily, correspond to powers associated with them. But we have to give out our names for him to use the list and after we've given our names he doesn't need the list anymore because he can look at the wiki. 2) Hal is scum and doesn't have a list and is just pretending to have a list so we ask questions like is " ?" on the list. This gives him an idea of who " ??" is. NAF says Hal answered his question about the masons and he's satisfied. I, who am totally clueless about the Batverse, think I've figured out Hal's answer with a minimum amount of googling, AYE. But there were other alternatives to the question. If Hal was wrong in his first guess he could have then replied with an alternate answer. 3) Hal has a list and is a Baddie. A scum claims to be A and A is not on the list and so he/she is outed. But why are there 12 extra names? Maybe to balance the game? 4) Maybe the List o' Names is a Bastard Mod red herring.
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Post by sinjin on Apr 1, 2008 19:51:28 GMT -5
grrrr, I have not been previewing because of browser problems.
For what it's worth I also do not see much value in the List o' Names to either side.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 2, 2008 1:02:39 GMT -5
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 2, 2008 1:04:26 GMT -5
NAF, what do you think of sinjin's point 2 above?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 2, 2008 1:09:33 GMT -5
Ryjae according to Cookies...
1 - Early proponent of a mass claim, but once confronted with con-claim arguments, he adopts a more reasoned and cautious approach. Advocates keeping it as an option but acknowledges the risks. As I don't yet know the ultimate wisdom of us all claiming or not claiming, or when, I can at least say that his posts through this transition just make me a bit uneasy. They just seem a bit too carefully weighed. A vague premonition, yes, but it is there.
2 - His first vote is for my fellow mason, Mole. Later removes it. Now this was quite early in Molegate, when all hell was breaking loose. I understand the heat that Mole received during this time, from a variety of directions, and that is precisely why I think it is very likely that there were Do-Gooders and PFKs right in the thick of it, exploiting the opening. However, I believe the false positive risk is also significant. So this alone is not very compelling for a case against Ryjae.
3 - He seemed to hang on to the idea that Mole should divulge more of his special information, while other players were of the mind that Mole's actions were in defense of a town role with which some of this special information could be shared.
4 - Interestingly, many of his posts early in the game are made without quotes, yet he is obviously referring to specific posts and specific people. This made it difficult to get real context to what he was saying by just searching for all of his posts. Part of me perked up at that as a clever way to throw people off of your track, at least partially, if done on purpose by a scummie. But the fact that he does eventually start quoting more often leads me to believe that he realized that using quotes makes things easier for re-reading later, for everyone.
5 - Asks for clarification as to the mechanics of third party factions. I can see this as either a curious townie question for someone new to the game, or a newbie third faction question from someone new to the game, For whatever reason, I see this as unlikely for a scum player to say. Just a hunch I guess.
6 - Receives heat for apparent misunderstanding of his role PM, confusion over scum/town lingo, and general comprehension issues with his initial interpretation of his PM and what was being said by others about their (alleged) PMs.
7 - Votes for drainbead for suspicious letter usage prior to her acknowledging an (alleged) post restriction. Later removes the vote. I say alleged restriction because apparently zuma was never under a posting restriction, yet claimed that he was. I know that zuma is not drain, but just indulge me the careful lawyer-speak. I believe that NAF actually had a restriction because I can trust him.
8 - Votes for diggit for lurking. Later removes it.
9 - A feisty exchange with tdpat (and to a lesser extent, sinjin) while he was in the hot seat and getting a few votes.
10 - Comes across as evolving through the game in a variety of ways, adjusting his play style and approach in response to lessons learned, epiphanies, realizations and whatnot. They strike me as genuine.
11 - Votes kassia for play style, lack of concrete contributions, and picking on the masons. This is his Day 1 final vote.
12 - Claims to have an "odd" power that can definitely hurt scum, but only if they don't know he has it, or know his name as it could allow them to deduce his power.
13 - Returns to the mass claim idea, and FOS's Atarus for his "defense" of Kat, prior to her scum-confirming death.
14 - Wonders if the Masons are trust worthy. Could they be "Scum masons"? Or just ballsy scum who took a big leap of faith on Day 1? This perspective does not last long, however, as he reverses this within a post or two.
15 - FOS's Cat early, and follows it up with a vote, and leaves it there.
16 - Suffers from some (imho) bad logic regarding how much trust/faith/benefit of the doubt is safe to put in Batverse canon color as a tool for trying to determine alignments.
And that ends the tour. I did not include the Day 1 poison post again, as I had so freshly quoted it.
What it all boils down to is that by the time I got halfway through reading all of his past posts, any wind there might have been in the "lynch ryjae" sails fizzled away, leaving him on the "feels like town" side of the line in the sand.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 2, 2008 1:28:58 GMT -5
Hang on, I missed this. zuma was not under a restriction? When did this come out?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 2, 2008 1:39:25 GMT -5
I'd planned on making the announcement that zuma had been replaced by Blaster Master this morning. Unfortunately, I've only just been able to log onto the boards (due to the outages that have been mentioned above). All of ProBoards seemed to be having problems. I should add that zuma was not replaced because he claimed to be Batman (he's not), nor because he violated his post restriction (which he didn't have), nor because he told the mods to fuck themselves (which they haven't done. Or, at least, I haven't). He was replaced for deleting his account during the end of a Day. Please do not delete your account ,even if you have intentions of setting it back up: during the time it's deleted, the mods can't contact you, and other players can't search your posts.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Apr 2, 2008 4:15:25 GMT -5
Hell, since just about everybody else in the entire game has demonstrated themselves to have better judgement at this than your pore humble Mason here, I'm going to jump on the nearest convenient bandwagon and vote Hal Brixton. I might as well lean on the one thing I've posted - the Kat analysis - that hasn't so far proven to be 100% wrong!
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 2, 2008 6:46:23 GMT -5
You do realize that she posted much more than once or twice after that, since that was near the end of the first thread for that day, right? Particularly since you and her had the little interchange in the second thread about when a Vig should utilize his powers. And she essentially answered his question in this post anyway: psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=tempy&action=display&thread=301&page=7#20524Then later under more pressure from Story she claims Two-Face. So the question has been answered. She probably should have addressed it directly earlier, if nothing more than to say that she won't reveal any more information at this time, but it's possible that she missed the post. Her motives are hers to explain, but the answer to the question is pretty obvious.
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Post by brewha on Apr 2, 2008 6:54:02 GMT -5
Hey Sinjin, to which funk are you referring?
I did call out Zuma for telling the players of this game (which includes me) to go fuck themselves, but that was oog.
Was there other posts? I can't explain them if I don't know what you are talking about.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 2, 2008 7:42:42 GMT -5
You do realize that she posted much more than once or twice after that, since that was near the end of the first thread for that day, right? No. That'll show me to post when I've been drinkin'. I totally thought I was going over the last couple pages of the Day last night.
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