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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 3, 2008 21:11:15 GMT -5
Next up: Captain Klutz/Darth Sensitive AKA Lex Luthor. I'll have it up before the end of the Day.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 3, 2008 21:36:07 GMT -5
It seems like there are three major storylines in play right now. I consider one of the three to be particularly important, so I'll start with that one: THE JOKER Santo, I trust you won't be offended by what follows; I'm sure you know I hold you in the highest regard. But... Why, oh why, are we listening to a word Santo is saying? Everyone is carefully nitpicking his claims and statements, looking for possible areas of contention, but after some consideration I have come to the firm conclusion that we must proceed as if literally every word he has said, possibly including the existence of Batman and Robin, could be complete bullshit. Guys, this isn't Mary Sunshine we're dealing with, here. This is the motherfucking Joker. It is possible that the game has been set up such that with the Bat dead, the Joker plays nice with his fellow villains. Just like in the canon. But here's what I know for dead certain: (1) Santo Rugger is the Joker. (2) The Joker is a daykiller, so we can't stop him from doing whatever the hell he wants. (3) On Day One, the Joker killed Koldanar. Santo's subsequent explanation - that he thought maybe Koldanar and I were Batman and Robin were playing peekaboo, makes no sense at all. Why would the scum need to "find" one another? They're scum; knowing one another's identities is intrinsic to their role in the game. And did Santo really think that two scum would, on Day One, and under little and no pressure, respectively, draw massive amounts of attention to themselves by having an elaborate conversation. Come on. (4) My win condition explicitly says that all players who are "Playing for Keeps" must die in order to win. Most of the rest of you have claimed, at least, that yours say the same. (5) The Joker is Playing for Keeps. I'm not saying we have to lynch him toDay, although part of me thinks we're stone cold crazy if we don't, because again, he's the motherfucking Joker; we have no idea what he might have up his sleeve toMorrow or on Days to come. I am saying that we must decline to listen to any explanations, discussions, or hedging from him. If we keep him alive, we keep him alive as a weapon to be used, but watched closely. Not as a potential future partner and certainly not as a current ally. And I really don't know, as Blaster Master sensibly says, why he shouldn't reveal the identity of the person he plans to kill before he kills them; what if he's right, but his kill fails and he is Night killed thereafter? What if he's wrong, and the person he's targeting is a Doctor or flat-out Detective?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 3, 2008 22:15:33 GMT -5
Captain Klutz/Darth Sensitive AKA Lex Luthor
[Day 1--Klutz]
Asks mod question about ties.
Mentions that a basic tenet of game design is that names don't imply alignment, other than the Bat in this case. Figures Bat has been given a phony claim. Mentions that based on his knowledge drawn mostly from the '60's series, many names could have various roles, and that the mod's probably mixed some things up expecting that we'd try to figure out people's abilities based on their roles. Mentions that if specific roles are being looked for, a mass claim would help with that. However, we don't know if this is a benefit to town or scum, so it's a gamble. Overall since we're unlikely to trip-up batman and the whole thing will take up a day or two [assuming he means real-time], he votes against mass claim.
Agrees with Koldanar that there is o advantage to ending a day early.
Cookies: All for dragging lurkers and low content posters over the coals so long as we supplement it with analysis.[/i]
Responds that if they don't post much substance, there won't be much to analyze. Mentions how he tends to start out slowly and ramps up as time goes on.
Mentions details of bolding and capitalization in his goal. Says the differences are probably just the mods doing it for the heck of it. [And as was confirmed later, that pretty much was it.]
Mentions that he's surprised that a name claim would out the Masons. Wonders what else might be outed by it. Says that we should definitely hold off on claim so that we don't out the masons.
Fluff.
Aplogizes for being busy and not posting much. Doesn't know who he'll be voting for, but won't be voting for molefan, NAF, Smurf, zuma or hockeymonkey. Clarifies for Hal his last non-fluff post.
Finds Kassia's [now Death by Irony] pursuit of Masons to be suspect. Votes her. Apologizes again for non participation.
Mentions how as scum in Firefly he had pursued similar strategy to Kassia in purusing Masons
Sees Kat is in the lead. Unvotes Kassia, votes Kat. [Don't know why he did this. Maybe because he didn't want CIAS to become a last-minute lynch, or see below.]
End Day 1.
I got nothing. Not much to go on. His last minute change seems weird. Maybe it's a "scum will probably be lynched anyway, so I can vote scum and seem town-like" thing.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 3, 2008 22:16:21 GMT -5
<snip> If we keep him alive, we keep him alive as a weapon to be used, but watched closely. <snip> That's pretty much what I was hoping for by giving a truthful claim instead of trying to jack around with my alignment and make something up that would probably get picked apart anyway. I'm not really sure who I'm going to kill Today, but, I'm open to suggestions. I was going to kill BlaMa, half for the obvious metagamey reason and half for the alternate metagamey reason that I got a PM that had the word suBlaMission and I thought it was some sort of hint. But, now, I don't know what I should do. Oh, and I didn't quote it, but the reason I thought you two were playing peek-a-boo was because everybody else was doing it, and I thought Kold was trying to gain some town creed by doing it, too, in addition to thinking scum might not have "found" each other. As you can see, I've got some pretty funky restrictions, so it wasn't unfathomable for me to think that, and in fact, I fathomed it. And, not to flatter you or anything, story, but don't you think if I was just trying to hurt the town, and I thought you were both Baddies, that I would have taken you out? Cuz I woulda.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 3, 2008 22:43:39 GMT -5
Day 2's lynch stuff
Results: ataruslynched cias joker killed
In order: sinjin lives discussion of deaths and shark repellant
Posts I noted NAF d2.1 #21 - FOS on atarus for gloating storyteller d2.1 #29 - Theorizes that cat is scum for not claiming while being vote leader at time of last post on d1 hal d2.1 #37 - master list claim molefan d2.1 #41 - analysis of previous day's voting - finds: "ATARUS never once attacks Kat. He does attack both Diggit (who does attack Kat) and Cookies. This and the timing of it get my wolfdar racing. I especially don't like the one post that I mentioned specifically in my above post. It looks scummy as hell to me." molefan d2.1 #47 - 1st vote on atarus ryjae d2.1 #54 - fos atarus for saying "In addition, from my perspective it looks like diggit is over-exaggerating Kat's "stoking" the fire of certain arguments." on day 1 Around here (d2.1 #61) zuma starts getting wierd brewha d2.1 #82 - thinks that cias looks towny because of who voted for her (himself, cookies, hockeymonkey, pats, and kat) rysto d2.1 #85 - tells brewha "There are two scum factions, so this looks good for CIAS not being a Do-Gooder. He could still be Playing For Keeps." brewha d2.1 #86 - agrees w/ rysto molefan d2.1 #96 - says more than 3 masons are out there atarus d2.1 #98 - defends self, just being on wrong side of lynch doesn't make you scum, kat was in favor of a role claim rysto d2.1 #106 - thinks atarus knows the scum favor a name claim, so didn't read kat's posts in order to say she favored it atarus d2.1 - 112 - points to where kat said claiming on 1 was the best idea, but admits scatterbrains NAF d2.1 - 113 - votes atarus based on mole and rysto hal d2.1 -116 - FOS on atarus based on rysto
And gah - an hour of reading/IMing takes me through 4 pages and post 120
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 3, 2008 22:45:59 GMT -5
rugger - clarification: your kill definitely takes place after the lynching?
I'm wondering if you can kill and so affect the votes.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 3, 2008 22:52:51 GMT -5
Captain Klutz/Darth Sensitive AKA Lex Luthor
[Day 2 pt 1.--Klutz]
Surprised by no deaths. Mentions that game might not be as bloody as we thought.
Mentions how Kat had no abilities mentioned, so presumably was vanilla scum. [How does he know this? Koldanar's abilities weren't mentioned either. Just that he was a bodyguard. Heck, we didn't know until Rugger mentioned it that Koldanar was actually the one targeted--and that's only assuming we believe the story.] Posits that if we have vanilla scum, the number of scum is higher than normal. Guesses 7, since 8 which would be one-third seems too many. [Of course, even with vanilla scum, I would think 7 is too high. Especially with PFK's. Seems like he's trying to subtly get the town jumping at shadows.] Continues on to say that Kat's cover name of Azrael wasn't particularly good [i.e. useful] for a baddie. Since we know masons are identifiable by name, believes names may be more important than originally thought. Thinks a name claim might be useful, but do the masons want to be outed.
Speculates about Kol's death: (1) day killer, (2) backfired role, (3) mod random kill at dusk, (4) random player voted for lynchee getting killed, or (5) a lynch of scum results in a random townie dying. Believes the first one is the simplest and as a result possibly too simple for this game. [*Bzzt* Wrong answer. Try again.] Believes the second is unlikely. We were told that Koldanar was more or less standard bodyguard type and that an ability that he could kill himself would surely qualify as something that would be sufficiently non-standard to mention. [Why does he think this? It was pretty apparent after the first Day that we don't find out any specific abilities. In fact, it was him that asked that very question on night one and Dio said that you don't get more than name and role and alignment.]. Says the third would be adding too much chance. [Among many other reasons why this would be unlikely. The best is: what would be the point of playing if the mods are killing us directly through no fault of our own?] Feels that four would make the game almost unplayable, though we could avoid it with ties. Says that five is interesting but rough on town; can get around it with a tie again. Says he prefers the day kill explanation followed by a random kill each dusk. [Ugh!] Feels that the mods wouldn't allow an easy way to get around a major mechanic so engineering a tie to get the mod kill would only have a small effect.
[Exit Klutz]
Well, he's come out looking mighty suspicious so far. Particularly when compared to how little he's posted. It's late now, so I'll finish up with the Darth half on Friday.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 3, 2008 23:30:04 GMT -5
Well, Dio's stated outright that BLaMa isn't Batman. I think that BLaMa might be a better candidate for HM, not you. If BLaMa's town then that at least gives him a 50% chance of surviving.
On the other hand, this is making the rather large assumption that Joe Chill must be Town, which isn't a particularly good assumption to be making about any Name. Thoughts?
Something else that occurred to me about HM's ability is that if she were to announce her target beforehand and we have a Doctor he could protect the target. I'm not sure if that's worth HM announcing her target beforehand and tying up the Doctor(if one even exists -- Kold might well have been our only Doctor), which would give the scum a free shot at any number of claimed power roles. I'm just throwing this idea out there -- I'm not endorsing it by any means.
The other problem is that we get ourselves into a nasty WIFOM situation if HM gets blocked by a scum role blocker. Was she blocked to protect scum, or to make it look like it was to protect scum. Maybe this isn't such a big problem, though, because a 50% chance of a night kill of a townie would probably better for the scum than a chance at getting a townie lynched.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 3, 2008 23:34:34 GMT -5
rugger - clarification: your kill definitely takes place after the lynching? I'm wondering if you can kill and so affect the votes. It's simultaneous. I don't know what you mean about the votes.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 3, 2008 23:43:57 GMT -5
Darth was wondering if you could kill prior to Dusk, and manipulate the voting by removing the dead's players vote from the count.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 3, 2008 23:51:24 GMT -5
rysto has it right.
drainbead - d2.1 - 127 - good case by others against atarus - may get a vote (weak defense) (here is where she says she has 2 names) atarus - d2.1 - 133 - defnse of stupidity - thinks about ramifications of kat's role claim, guesses scum got them prefab sinjin - d2.1 #142 - claims killer croc, votes cias for trying to kill him tdpatriots - d2.1-145 - votes cias for kill attempt NAF - d2.1 - 149 - unvotes atarus votes cias rysto - d2.1 - 150 - fos on hal and votes atarus, willing to vote cia to force a claim drainbead - d2.1 - 152 - votes cias cookies - d2.1 - 153 - can vote cias but will wait for defense mhaye - d2.1 - 153 - an vote cias wonders if sinjin is pfk molefan - d2.1 - 160 - unvoteatarus vote cias smurf - d2.1 - 163 - an vote cias waiting for response irony - d2.1 - 167 - fos on cias hawkeye - d2.1 - 227 - vote cias because of no defense cias - d2.1 - 234 - flu is reason for absence cias - d2.1 - 297 - won't claim... lots of crumbs, no defense hm - d2.1 - 306 - breadcrumbs knowledge of cias name rysto - d2.1 - 315 points out that pro town vig is only possible claim
I have a whole lot more respect for you lot who dig through old stuff! this is tedious!
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Apr 3, 2008 23:52:04 GMT -5
In my mind I have basically two options for my vote today.
Santo - for fairly obvious reasons I would think. I basically agree with most of Story's anaylsis around this. But I'm undecided whether to just get it over and done with, or to let him run loose for a little while at least. I'm begining to think that it might be an idea to toss him in the chair sooner rather than later though. We have only his supposed PM to back up his claims. There is a range of things including win conditions there that Santo could be messing with, and it would be far to dangerous to let him live anywhere close to the endgame without knowing for sure what his conditions are.
Plus we are leaving him free to kill people of his choosing, based upon 1 persons judgement of whether someone is scummy or not. Unless he choose not to kill - The PM says "may" submit a name.
ZumaBlam - Zuma was acting very squirrely, and was apparently lying through his teeth (claiming a post restriction when none existed). So even just on that basis with the good old "lynch all liars" theory that could be enough. I know (for me anyway) that there is a thought that we'd be terribly unfair to Blam to lynch him today, but at the end of the day, we need to do what we need to do. I have a suspcicion that Joe Chill is Playing for Keeps.
A third thing that presents that I would like to raise, now this is pure speculation on my part, and even worse it's colour based speculation, although private, PM based colour.
Lex Luthor - apparently the one that organised the energy dome. He's just trying to kill Batman. He doesn't give a rats about the rest of us villains in here. Very likely to be PFK also I think.
But after all that, I will Vote ZumaBlam for today. With an eye to Santo if noone else presents themselves as a likely target toMorrow.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 3, 2008 23:52:30 GMT -5
Darth was wondering if you could kill prior to Dusk, and manipulate the voting by removing the dead's players vote from the count. Oh. Nope. They both happen at Dusk, not before or after.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 3, 2008 23:54:29 GMT -5
I can take out BlaM if you guys want, so you don't have to worry about "wasting" a lynch just to find out WTF zuma was smoking, and can spend Tomorrow working on some analysis instead of arguing about whether or not we should kill him.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 4, 2008 0:23:27 GMT -5
Hoopy Frood 1 (Death By Irony) Blaster Master 6 (NAF1138, Hoopy Frood, Brewha,ComeSide, Homonk, Dark Smurf) Santo Rugger 2 (sinjin, Blaster Master)
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 4, 2008 1:53:50 GMT -5
irony - d2.1 - 338 - unvotes cias leaves fos (didn't actually vote him) db - d2.1 - 341 - calls out cias for not posting pm rysto - d2.1 - 358 - wants cias to explain targeting of sinjin cias - d2.1 -367 - defense post - sinjin post analysis hm - d2.1 - 380 - defends not naming cias cias - d2.1 - 407 - claims to not be part of a group molefan - d2.1 - 410 - unvotes cias as probably not a do gooder, but in same posts guess that is a wolf on opposite team as sinjin ryston - d2.1 - 429 - outs cias as hush NAF - d2.1 - 432 - unvotes cias - assumption of pro town vig status molefan - d2.1 - 434 - loud ranty post about how only masons are supporting cias - no wolf support, ignores pfk possibility ryjae - d2.1 442 - reminds about pfk faction, some color from wiki on hush, likely to vote him later ryjae - d2.1 - 456 - votes cias based on color and dislike for loose cannons
is whatI had before dozing of fin foront of the screen. It's been slow going, and I don't think I'm learning mcuh. And I have plenty to do tomorrow. Unless there's a someone who really wants it, i won'd do so.
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Post by Hal Briston on Apr 4, 2008 6:51:50 GMT -5
I can take out BlaM if you guys want, so you don't have to worry about "wasting" a lynch just to find out WTF zuma was smoking, and can spend Tomorrow working on some analysis instead of arguing about whether or not we should kill him. Right, but then who do we lynch? Sorry to say, but my internal debate right now is between BLaM and you* -- unless you're saying that town could vote for you and you would make a BLaM-kill your final act. * Actually, I have two others on my heavy suspicion list, but since it's nothing more than a gut feeling I'm not going to toss out baseless smudges.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 4, 2008 8:23:51 GMT -5
Hal, I'd like to be the first person to encourage you to throw out your baseless smudges. I think I speak for the entire Town when I say, even if they're based on nothing but instinct, they're more then we have right now. Please share, because we need somewhere to go at this point.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 8:25:38 GMT -5
I'm not really sure who I'm going to kill Today, but, I'm open to suggestions. I was going to kill BlaMa, half for the obvious metagamey reason and half for the alternate metagamey reason that I got a PM that had the word suBlaMission and I thought it was some sort of hint. But, now, I don't know what I should do. Well, I hate to reitterate this, but I've been mod-confirmed to NOT be Batman so if, in fact, your goal is to kill Batman, you're wasting your time targetting me. And, if you don't have any other good leads that might make it worth letting to continue to roam free, I don't see why we should take that risk.
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Post by ryjae on Apr 4, 2008 8:29:37 GMT -5
My vote is going on Hawkeyeop, his role name is not on Hal's list. Not the most solid of reasons but I can't see the purpose of this list with the Mothman not being on it. And he alone is the only claimed name not on Hal's list. At least Hal is saying so.
vote hawkeyeop
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Post by ryjae on Apr 4, 2008 8:37:44 GMT -5
To expand on that a bit, Hawkeyeop said he was the Killer Moth. That's fine but if his role PM said And if I was in his position I think that information I would make clear before or during the role reveal. I would have assumed by reading that and all the talk of a list, I wouldn't be on it. Much like Rysto did, on his color alignment issue way back pages ago. Bottom line, I am voting for him based on him not being on the list. While the rest of us are. Mod funny business it could be, but BlaM is making an effort to explain things and I don't feel comfortable killing him for zuma's craziness toDay. And they where the two I was leaning toward.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 8:38:15 GMT -5
Well, Dio's stated outright that BLaMa isn't Batman. I think that BLaMa might be a better candidate for HM, not you. If BLaMa's town then that at least gives him a 50% chance of surviving. On the other hand, this is making the rather large assumption that Joe Chill must be Town, which isn't a particularly good assumption to be making about any Name. Thoughts? Something else that occurred to me about HM's ability is that if she were to announce her target beforehand and we have a Doctor he could protect the target. I'm not sure if that's worth HM announcing her target beforehand and tying up the Doctor(if one even exists -- Kold might well have been our only Doctor), which would give the scum a free shot at any number of claimed power roles. I'm just throwing this idea out there -- I'm not endorsing it by any means. The other problem is that we get ourselves into a nasty WIFOM situation if HM gets blocked by a scum role blocker. Was she blocked to protect scum, or to make it look like it was to protect scum. Maybe this isn't such a big problem, though, because a 50% chance of a night kill of a townie would probably better for the scum than a chance at getting a townie lynched. I was actually giving thought to a similar idea, but I think using HM on me would be a very bad idea for several reasons, two of those reasons involve the knowledge of my powers, which I'm not prepared to divulge unless it's necessary to save my life. Instead, I think it would be better to have the Riddler investigate me, which would circumvent the negative aspect of my power that Two-Face may activate, while still providing the town with a reason to trust me, and allowing Two-Face to, instead, pursue another target that could potentially be Batman, or other scum. AFAICT, mind you I still haven't read up on Day 2, it appears that the scum all have cover roles, so that should make the Riddler and Two-Face's results more or less equally useful, right?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 4, 2008 8:42:10 GMT -5
Lex Luthor - apparently the one that organised the energy dome. He's just trying to kill Batman. He doesn't give a rats about the rest of us villains in here. Very likely to be PFK also I think. That thought had occurred to me as well. Especially since Klutz was looking a bit scummy right before he subbed out.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 4, 2008 8:46:06 GMT -5
My vote is going on Hawkeyeop, his role name is not on Hal's list. Not the most solid of reasons but I can't see the purpose of this list with the Mothman not being on it. And he alone is the only claimed name not on Hal's list. At least Hal is saying so. vote hawkeyeopOK, but my problems with this are twofold: (1) We have reached the conclusion that the scum have most likely been given Aliases of some sort. Knowing that Hal has a list, and assuming that the scum have been given safe claims, why would a scummy hawkeyeop deliberately lie about his role name? He'd have been safer declining to claim. He's not dumb. (2) The wording that Hal gave us from the Mods - with all the careful wording about "the people you believe are in the asylum" - suggests to me that they were being cute. It reminds me of You-Solve-It in that regard, when the Mods of that game started out with a long list of roles that wouldn't be in the game: "no detective, no doctor, no chia bingo manager, blah blah blah." On quick read-through, it seemed like they were saying "no power roles." So when a player - Hal himself, funny enough - showed up claiming to have a power role (albeit one never explicitly ruled out by the Mods), some players thought he was lying, because hadn't the Mods ruled out power roles? But they very specifically and deliberately hadn't. After I died, I saw a quote in the Spectator thread from one of the Mods, saying of the color in question: "We said exactly what we meant. What they read into it is their business." I think this is like that. When Mods want to communicate an absolute fact about the game - no recruitment, for example - they do so clearly and directly. When they want to suggest one thing but leave the real interpretation available, they use words like the ones Hal as reported. From this I conclude that Killer Moth is most likely one of those things, where they're setting us up but can say, later, "We never said everyone in the asylum was on the list. We just said you think everyone in the asylum was on the list." And so, for these mostly meta- reasons, I'm tentatively moving hawkeyeop to my list of people-I-probably-will-not-vote-for for toDay.
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 4, 2008 8:57:39 GMT -5
Lex Luthor - apparently the one that organised the energy dome. He's just trying to kill Batman. He doesn't give a rats about the rest of us villains in here. Very likely to be PFK also I think. That thought had occurred to me as well. Especially since Klutz was looking a bit scummy right before he subbed out. Well, I know just saying it won't assuage your suspicions, but I am part of the town. I want Batman, and his cronies dead, in order to further my beating Superman schemes. Your Goal:You win when the Town Wins. All the Scummy Do Gooders must be Defeated, and any other threats maliciously playing for keeps against the Baddies defeated as well.
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Post by Hal Briston on Apr 4, 2008 8:58:29 GMT -5
Hal, I'd like to be the first person to encourage you to throw out your baseless smudges. I think I speak for the entire Town when I say, even if they're based on nothing but instinct, they're more then we have right now. Please share, because we need somewhere to go at this point. You make a good point, so I'll tell you what -- we'll split the difference. Keeping in mind that this is coming without cites, and is based purely on my gut, one of the players twinging me is brewha. The other one I'm going to keep to myself for now, simply because my plan is to use tonight's investigation on them, and I don't want to give any potential scum power role any head's-up on my intentions. However: Instead, I think it would be better to have the Riddler investigate me, which would circumvent the negative aspect of my power that Two-Face may activate, while still providing the town with a reason to trust me, and allowing Two-Face to, instead, pursue another target that could potentially be Batman, or other scum. Ok BLaM...let's say I were agreeable to this. Let me ask you straight out -- is your role worth it to us? Assuming you're town, would you say you have a power or ability that makes confirming you over someone else a pro-town move for us?
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Post by ryjae on Apr 4, 2008 8:59:11 GMT -5
My vote is going on Hawkeyeop, his role name is not on Hal's list. Not the most solid of reasons but I can't see the purpose of this list with the Mothman not being on it. And he alone is the only claimed name not on Hal's list. At least Hal is saying so. vote hawkeyeopOK, but my problems with this are twofold: (1) We have reached the conclusion that the scum have most likely been given Aliases of some sort. Knowing that Hal has a list, and assuming that the scum have been given safe claims, why would a scummy hawkeyeop deliberately lie about his role name? He'd have been safer declining to claim. He's not dumb. (2) The wording that Hal gave us from the Mods - with all the careful wording about "the people you believe are in the asylum" - suggests to me that they were being cute. It reminds me of You-Solve-It in that regard, when the Mods of that game started out with a long list of roles that wouldn't be in the game: "no detective, no doctor, no chia bingo manager, blah blah blah." On quick read-through, it seemed like they were saying "no power roles." So when a player - Hal himself, funny enough - showed up claiming to have a power role (albeit one never explicitly ruled out by the Mods), some players thought he was lying, because hadn't the Mods ruled out power roles? But they very specifically and deliberately hadn't. After I died, I saw a quote in the Spectator thread from one of the Mods, saying of the color in question: "We said exactly what we meant. What they read into it is their business." I think this is like that. When Mods want to communicate an absolute fact about the game - no recruitment, for example - they do so clearly and directly. When they want to suggest one thing but leave the real interpretation available, they use words like the ones Hal as reported. From this I conclude that Killer Moth is most likely one of those things, where they're setting us up but can say, later, "We never said everyone in the asylum was on the list. We just said you think everyone in the asylum was on the list." And so, for these mostly meta- reasons, I'm tentatively moving hawkeyeop to my list of people-I-probably-will-not-vote-for for toDay. Oh I agreed both in my last post, and my previous posting between BlaM and Hawkeyeop, I am not basing this on something that is 100%. But the other option BlaM I am not getting scummy from. Didn't get scummy from zuma either, just crazy. Biggest problem I had was he was acting like he was losing (zuma) when we are doing fine so far. So I went with something that I can say is almost fact, Killer Moth is not on Hal's list. One more thing on the issue of cover roles. At least one if not two PFK did not get a cover alias, unless the Joker (Santo) is not telling us everything. He needed to reveal himself, because he was forced to is my thinking, he did not have a cover role. And I don't think CiaS had any cover role. Which means that the PFK faction/factions may not have. Doesn't mean much right now but something to think about.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 4, 2008 9:07:21 GMT -5
I can take out BlaM if you guys want, so you don't have to worry about "wasting" a lynch just to find out WTF zuma was smoking, and can spend Tomorrow working on some analysis instead of arguing about whether or not we should kill him. I agree with the others that this is a bad idea. You're between a rock and a hard place, I understand. But at this point, you are not a townie. You say you can become one, but the only reason we have remotely to trust you is that you admitted you're PFK and provided most of your PM. However, there are things you aren't telling us. (Which could be better that you are doing so, but it could be worse as well depending on your motives. We have a WIFOM with that so we can't count it in your defense.) Town does not win by being nice. Town wins by figuring out which gamble is better. At this point, the question is do we benefit by lynching you now, or do we benefit by letting you run free in hopes of taking out the Bat for us. I'm willing to give you a little bit of slack in that rope around your neck, and so are others it seems. But understand that a few think we should lynch you right away. Also, that rope can be pulled pretty tight at any time. If you kill a townie, you can pretty much expect the town will lynch you the next day. If you kill a scum, you can pretty much expect the scum to night kill you. If you kill Batman, well, one side will take you out regardless. Scum because you're dangerous to them, town because we can't trust that you are town at this point. If you don't kill anyone, you are useless to us to keep around, and each day we wait to lynch you brings us closer to losing to you. If we lynch a couple more scum, we should lynch you as well, because lynching the last scum with you still being alive also loses for us. Additionally, any doctor-type we still might have is not going to protect you, because there are much more useful town to protect, and scum will no doubt protect their own as well if they have a doctor-type. And you can pretty much figure that you are high on my list of candidates to night-block. You are useful to us in only one way. Your are a liability to us in a lot more. Your DK of BM won't achieve the only thing we need you for. If he's scum, it brings you one step closer to your win condition (yes, I know it helps us as well, but town should sink or swim on our own actions, not yours). If he's town, you've just increased your liability factor. Maybe something will change by end of Day, but at this point, do not do it, unless you want to sign your own death warrant.
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Post by Hawkmod on Apr 4, 2008 9:07:32 GMT -5
And if I was in his position I think that information I would make clear before or during the role reveal. I would have assumed by reading that and all the talk of a list, I wouldn't be on it. Much like Rysto did, on his color alignment issue way back pages ago. Well, I didn't know I wasn't on the list. I thought it was possible, but not terribly likely, as I assumed Hal's list was complete. It wasn't until Hal made his riddle, that I was knew I wasn't on the list.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 4, 2008 9:12:09 GMT -5
That thought had occurred to me as well. Especially since Klutz was looking a bit scummy right before he subbed out. Well, I know just saying it won't assuage your suspicions, but I am part of the town. I want Batman, and his cronies dead, in order to further my beating Superman schemes. Your Goal:You win when the Town Wins. All the Scummy Do Gooders must be Defeated, and any other threats maliciously playing for keeps against the Baddies defeated as well. Can you provide a defense for the parts of Klutz's post that appear scummy. I know it's a bit unfair since you have to get in someone else's mind, but it will help derail any case that could be made against you. Besides, it should be considerably easier than what BM got left to deal with.
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