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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 4, 2008 14:37:29 GMT -5
What's coup de grace mean? It's a death blow. In a old-tyme duel, if you gut shot the guy and he was bleeding out on the ground and obviously dying and you had some respect for him, you might go shoot him in the head to spare him the pain of the slow death. I used it there to imply that Klutz's and Rysto's votes were sort of finisher votes - Kat probably gets lynched without them, but they kind of sealed the deal. Klutz's vote is kind of relevant here, because without it, scum could have tied things up. Rysto's vote, ultimately, was meaningless except as a hedge against massive funny business (which was not going to happen; a two-vote swing would have been suspicious as all get out). All of which means that my suspicions lie rather more with Rysto and mhaye than with Darth Sensitive in this case.
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 14:39:13 GMT -5
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 4, 2008 14:42:20 GMT -5
What's coup de grace mean? Dealing a death blow to a mortally wounded opponent. It was a merciful act. A warrior with a stomach wound was heading for peritonitis and a lingering death.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 4, 2008 14:42:36 GMT -5
I see. I'll kill mhaye, then, just for you, story.
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 4, 2008 14:43:10 GMT -5
Ok - I didn't want to have to do this until Tomorrow, but it matters now.
Some of my special abilities are contingent on me being on the winning lynch. I don't have any info from Klutz on why, but my assumption is that he thought that, scum or not, Kat would be the lynchee, and so he needed to be on that wagon.
Had I been available last weekend, I would have hopped my vote too. And if the tide massively shifts, and I'm done with my drive home, I'll shift again.
But I think we need to lynch rugger.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 4, 2008 14:43:33 GMT -5
All of which means that my suspicions lie rather more with Rysto and mhaye than with Darth Sensitive in this case. Well, don't forget that the Day ended on a massive simulpost. As I recall, I saw Hawk make a last-second switch and had no idea what the count was. I voted Kat to prevent Hawk's vote from meaning anything. Somebody(and it might well have been Klutz) switched from the second place candidate to Kat and the implications of that didn't register on me, so I thought that the count was a lot closer than it was.
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 14:47:53 GMT -5
What's coup de grace mean? It's a death blow. In a old-tyme duel, if you gut shot the guy and he was bleeding out on the ground and obviously dying and you had some respect for him, you might go shoot him in the head to spare him the pain of the slow death. I used it there to imply that Klutz's and Rysto's votes were sort of finisher votes - Kat probably gets lynched without them, but they kind of sealed the deal. Klutz's vote is kind of relevant here, because without it, scum could have tied things up. Rysto's vote, ultimately, was meaningless except as a hedge against massive funny business (which was not going to happen; a two-vote swing would have been suspicious as all get out). All of which means that my suspicions lie rather more with Rysto and mhaye than with Darth Sensitive in this case. Well, considering they would have known Kat was scum, I'd really find it equally likely that there's plenty of scum on the CIAS or Kassia wagon, depending on how quickly the Kat wagon grew. As you say, if Kassia was leading with only 5 minutes to go, why would scum unnecessarily unvote to condemn one of their own? I just don't see a lot of motivation for Lex or Harley there. And while Ra's could have started a case hoping it would blow over, I suppose that's a little more likely, but IME that's just not very likely. Why are you so convinced there must be scum on that wagon?
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 4, 2008 14:49:09 GMT -5
I can see I'm going to have to sharpen my drop-kicking skills again then, SR.
Or don't you know who Barry John was?
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 4, 2008 14:49:55 GMT -5
No clue. Never was too big on pop culture.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 4, 2008 14:51:04 GMT -5
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 14:51:09 GMT -5
I see. I'll kill mhaye, then, just for you, story. So, do you really think he may be Batman?
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Post by Hal Briston on Apr 4, 2008 14:53:27 GMT -5
Eh, it may be a bit late in the day for it, and perhaps I'm revealing more than I should, but yeah, Darth Klutz was my other (stronger) suspicion. He's the one I planned on investigating if BLaM wasn't around tonight.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 4, 2008 14:55:11 GMT -5
Actually, I think he may be Robin. Part of my PM that I snipped says:
1.Should you DayKill Robin: You will get a nice little Joker Bonus ability, that I'm sure others would be DYING to have!
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 4, 2008 14:58:49 GMT -5
Well, considering they would have known Kat was scum, I'd really find it equally likely that there's plenty of scum on the CIAS or Kassia wagon, depending on how quickly the Kat wagon grew. Oh, I think it's almost certain. Although while we know that CIAS was non-Do-Gooder, we know nothing about kassia. It's possible she was scum, too. That bit of extra knowledge would be awfully useful in sussing out what happened at the end of Day One, but we don't have it now. In any case, I'd say the scum likely spread out. I think I've bollixed up my description of events. Kassia was leading with 5 minutes to go (actually, 7). She had 5 votes vs. 4 each for Kat and CiaS. With 5 minutes to go, I voted for Kat. This made it a tie. Less than a minute later, Koldanar followed suit. Now Kat was leading, 6-5-4 (Kat/kassia/CIAS). Now Klutz votes, for Kat. Darth Sensitive has suggested an intriguing explanation for this. His vote makes it impossible, really, for anyone to affect the outcome without it being obvious. That's why I considered him the least suspicious of the three options. Finally, Rysto adds a topper vote. His explanation is legit, but obviously unprovable. "Convinced" and "must" are strong words. I consider it likely. I cannot remember ever seeing scum get lynched without other scum on their wagon, especially not early in the game. Given that it's been a standard scum strategy - spread out, don't cluster, be a part of one another's deaths - I'd consider it more likely than not to be the default strategy employed in this game on Day One, before the scum could talk amongst themselves (Rysto, I am nearly certain that we were told this was the case, but I could be wrong).
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Post by Rysto on Apr 4, 2008 15:00:57 GMT -5
Mods, have you told us whether the scum could talk Night Zero?
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 4, 2008 15:05:41 GMT -5
Mods, have you told us whether the scum could talk Night Zero? No, we haven't.
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 15:05:44 GMT -5
Okay, fair enough explanation Storyteller, I think it's as good of a lead as any we've got. Now, obviously, it's still up to our investigative roles, but considering I have knowledge of my powers and not of Lex's, Ra's's, or Harley's, I'd obviously be pitting my usefulness against there's. Assuming for a moment that Joker will actually do what he claims (tenuous as it may be), Two-Face could choose which between Lex and Harley he finds most suspicious and Riddler can investigate me, or they can both look there and we can pretty much get a good look at that whole list of voters Tonight. However, I'd certainly think some amount of coordination would be nice between our two investigative roles, since they're already out in the open, to minimize potential overlap.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 4, 2008 15:06:12 GMT -5
Storyteller, I think you may be suffering from looking at the game the way you would play it. You have the reputation of being aggressive as scum, and (let's face it) your play in M2 set a lot of expectations about the best way for scum to play.
But, avoiding predictability is the most important thing for the Do-Gooders. They might consciously avoid that act knowing that people would expect it.
I have the same information as you do about why Diggit voted for Kat before we did the soft-Shu shuffle. The only additional info I have is that I'm not a Do-Gooder.
Of course, there's the obvious possibility that you are and you're telling us what you did. I haven't looked hard at you yet; maybe Tomorrow. There's lots of reading to be done Overnight.
Sorry Santo, I'm several hundred years old. Not a callow teenager.
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 15:06:27 GMT -5
Haha, truly a bastard to the last!
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Post by ryjae on Apr 4, 2008 15:08:00 GMT -5
Well, considering they would have known Kat was scum, I'd really find it equally likely that there's plenty of scum on the CIAS or Kassia wagon, depending on how quickly the Kat wagon grew. Oh, I think it's almost certain. Although while we know that CIAS was non-Do-Gooder, we know nothing about kassia. It's possible she was scum, too. That bit of extra knowledge would be awfully useful in sussing out what happened at the end of Day One, but we don't have it now. In any case, I'd say the scum likely spread out. I think I've bollixed up my description of events. Kassia was leading with 5 minutes to go (actually, 7). She had 5 votes vs. 4 each for Kat and CiaS. With 5 minutes to go, I voted for Kat. This made it a tie. Less than a minute later, Koldanar followed suit. Now Kat was leading, 6-5-4 (Kat/kassia/CIAS). Now Klutz votes, for Kat. Darth Sensitive has suggested an intriguing explanation for this. His vote makes it impossible, really, for anyone to affect the outcome without it being obvious. That's why I considered him the least suspicious of the three options. Finally, Rysto adds a topper vote. His explanation is legit, but obviously unprovable. "Convinced" and "must" are strong words. I consider it likely. I cannot remember ever seeing scum get lynched without other scum on their wagon, especially not early in the game. Given that it's been a standard scum strategy - spread out, don't cluster, be a part of one another's deaths - I'd consider it more likely than not to be the default strategy employed in this game on Day One, before the scum could talk amongst themselves (Rysto, I am nearly certain that we were told this was the case, but I could be wrong). Is it possible both where scum? (kassia and kat) and the vote switches where to protect one with more power, or the bat himself while sacrificing a "goon" ? I need to go back over the order of the votes etc. Just a thought to throw in with the rest of this.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 4, 2008 15:09:06 GMT -5
<snip> Sorry Santo, I'm several hundred years old. Not a callow teenager.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Apr 4, 2008 15:09:22 GMT -5
Huh?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 4, 2008 15:10:22 GMT -5
Is it possible both where scum? (kassia and kat) and the vote switches where to protect one with more power, or the bat himself while sacrificing a "goon" ? I need to go back over the order of the votes etc. Just a thought to throw in with the rest of this. Most certainly a possibility, as well. This is fun, isn't it?
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 15:12:09 GMT -5
MHaye, Storyteller may or may not be scum, but aside from the masons, his connection to Bane makes it pretty unlikely, unless somehow a do-gooder or PFKer is hooked up with a baddie, which would be quite bastardly, but exceptionally unfair. Of course, I don't see him in the clear, but I think there's plenty of other people about whom we have much less pro-town information, to investigate first.
That said, considering the total number of votes, and my little pet PRH, I'd say Storyteller is probably not that far off by saying there's a pretty good chance of scum being on the Kat train.
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Post by ryjae on Apr 4, 2008 15:13:35 GMT -5
Is it possible both where scum? (kassia and kat) and the vote switches where to protect one with more power, or the bat himself while sacrificing a "goon" ? I need to go back over the order of the votes etc. Just a thought to throw in with the rest of this. Most certainly a possibility, as well. This is fun, isn't it? Yes, but I have things I was supposed to be doing today. Yes, I am addicted. No, I am seeking help because this game is a lot of fun and mind boggling (thats why it's probably so much fun though!) ;D
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 4, 2008 15:14:26 GMT -5
Fuck. You know, now I'm really pissed off that I spent this whole day two-stepping with the Joker. Something happened on Day One. Kat got a vote from diggit, and followed-up, essentially, twice. Because of the way the search function now works, I can't figure out how they fell into context. diggit's general lack of participation during the first Day also complicates things. But there are two possibilities: 1. He was scum, starting a legit-seeming attack on a fellow scum, knowing that it would probably blow over (and that even if it didn't, he could get some Townie cred for it later). 2. He was not scum, just quiet. I don't know which. What I know is that after his vote, the next five votes on the Kat bandwagon - the ones that killed her - were all Townies. Then there were two coup de grace votes - Rysto and Captain Klutz (now Darth Sensitive). So here's the question, boys and girls: Do we believe that the scum - on Day One, when they hadn't yet had a chance to discuss strategy - collectively decided to allow one of their own to die without a single one of them on the bandwagon?I don't. And so I think it likely that one of those three - mhaye, Rysto, or Captain Klutz (and maybe two or even all three) - is a Do-Gooder. Thoughts? I think you are probably right. Looking at what little we know of the balance so far, my guess would be that there were 5-6 Do Gooders to start with.(any fewer and they wouldn't really stand a chance) Take out Kat, and I would guess that there are probably 5 still left alive. That would have been enough to save her had they acted collectivly. I think at some point they needed to decide to let her die in favor of not being found out. (Much like AZ's death in M5.) I am not sure where I am going with the above, just thinking right now.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Apr 4, 2008 15:15:10 GMT -5
SR, Ra's al Ghul is effectively immortal. If and when he gets close to death he knows of places he can get rejuvenated. And go totally insane, as a side effect.
Robin is a lot younger.
BlaM, the Bane connection is a fair point. Not that we know what it is.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 4, 2008 15:16:37 GMT -5
SR, Ra's al Ghul is effectively immortal. If and when he gets close to death he knows of places he can get rejuvenated. And go totally insane, as a side effect. Are you claiming something here? Would you care to?
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 15:17:27 GMT -5
Is it possible both where scum? (kassia and kat) and the vote switches where to protect one with more power, or the bat himself while sacrificing a "goon" ? I need to go back over the order of the votes etc. Just a thought to throw in with the rest of this. It's possible, but I think that tale would be more easily determined by the identities of the late vote switchers, namely Lex and Harley. If both are scum, it's possible that Kassia/ DBI is also scum under that theory. If one or neither of them is scum, it becomes a much more tenuous connection.
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 4, 2008 15:24:11 GMT -5
Are you claiming something here? Would you care to? Well, in that light, I think it may be in Ra's's best interest to claim. Were I to take a guess, I might imagine he survives a first kill attempt on him, and then he has to get revenge or something like that.
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