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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 14, 2008 14:16:18 GMT -5
Oh, and I forgot to include Shark repellent too.
*hands NAF a box of Detox tea*
A little late, but you might still want to drink a few cups.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 14, 2008 14:21:36 GMT -5
Then what the hell did the scum do that Night? Play Parchesi? It seems to me that there are two possibilities: either brewha blocked the Do-Gooders from killing NAF, or brewha blocked NAF from night-killing. Hoopy, if I were you I'd consider throwing a block NAF's way. If he's scum, great! Otherwise, he's just a Mason, so it's not like you'd be blocking an important pro-town role.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 14, 2008 14:26:10 GMT -5
And the point of blocking a detective to keep him alive is what, exactly? Are you serious? Let's see, a LIVING detective is worth more than a DEAD one, especially if it results in a BLOCKED Night kill. Even if the detective gets no more readings, if he's absorbing all the Night kills, he's still an asset to the town. Basically, here's how I'm looking at it: Protect Hal: definitely no reading, Hal definitely lives, Ryjae is probably dead. Protect storyteller: probably no reading, Hal is probably dead, Ryjae definitely lives. Do you disagree that Hal wasn't the overwhelmingly obvious target to attack last Night? Do you disagree that, either way, he was probably blocking something that would be helpful to the town? Do you think that the death of Ryjae last Night wouldn't have been at least as helpful to us, when combined with a living detective, as a slight chance at a reading?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 14, 2008 14:27:31 GMT -5
Say, is there a particular reason that Hoopy hasn't been asked to reveal his list o'targets? Would there be harm in it, at this point?
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 14, 2008 14:29:39 GMT -5
Say, is there a particular reason that Hoopy hasn't been asked to reveal his list o'targets? Would there be harm in it, at this point? I don't think so, I was planning on asking him about it toDay anyway.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 14, 2008 14:35:56 GMT -5
Then what the hell did the scum do that Night? Play Parchesi? It seems to me that there are two possibilities: either brewha blocked the Do-Gooders from killing NAF, or brewha blocked NAF from night-killing. Hoopy, if I were you I'd consider throwing a block NAF's way. If he's scum, great! Otherwise, he's just a Mason, so it's not like you'd be blocking an important pro-town role. Bearing in mind that there are 4 people who categorically dismiss the 2nd option... No one can completely believe us until one of us dies, but wasting a block on NAF could end up being more costly than just killing a Mason outright, depending on the potential action/target combinations that would be allowed to run their course unchecked.
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Post by brewha on Apr 14, 2008 14:36:49 GMT -5
And the point of blocking a detective to keep him alive is what, exactly? Are you serious? Let's see, a LIVING detective is worth more than a DEAD one, especially if it results in a BLOCKED Night kill. Even if the detective gets no more readings, if he's absorbing all the Night kills, he's still an asset to the town. Basically, here's how I'm looking at it: Protect Hal: definitely no reading, Hal definitely lives, Ryjae is probably dead. Protect storyteller: probably no reading, Hal is probably dead, Ryjae definitely lives. Do you disagree that Hal wasn't the overwhelmingly obvious target to attack last Night? Do you disagree that, either way, he was probably blocking something that would be helpful to the town? Do you think that the death of Ryjae last Night wouldn't have been at least as helpful to us, when combined with a living detective, as a slight chance at a reading? Yes, Hal did seem like an obvious target for the dogooders. Probably the most obvious target. If I were a dogooder, I would still know this. And, up against a town full of power roles, I would assume that the most obvious player would be protected, so I would try to kill a less obvious player - someone who wasn't protected. It's a case of WIFOM, and I made the wrong choice. Well, it turns out that since Hal was PFK, I made the right choice, but only because I was wrong.
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Post by brewha on Apr 14, 2008 14:39:35 GMT -5
It seems to me that there are two possibilities: either brewha blocked the Do-Gooders from killing NAF, or brewha blocked NAF from night-killing. Hoopy, if I were you I'd consider throwing a block NAF's way. If he's scum, great! Otherwise, he's just a Mason, so it's not like you'd be blocking an important pro-town role. Bearing in mind that there are 4 people who categorically dismiss the 2nd option... No one can completely believe us until one of us dies, but wasting a block on NAF could end up being more costly than just killing a Mason outright, depending on the potential action/target combinations that would be allowed to run their course unchecked. Which is why I quit protecting Masons. Sorry, but I'm not 100% confident that you guys are who you say you are. Don't take it personally, I'm not 100% confident of anything. If one of you were night killed, it would tell us for sure without us wasting a day lynch.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Apr 14, 2008 15:07:07 GMT -5
Are you serious? Let's see, a LIVING detective is worth more than a DEAD one, especially if it results in a BLOCKED Night kill. Even if the detective gets no more readings, if he's absorbing all the Night kills, he's still an asset to the town. Basically, here's how I'm looking at it: Protect Hal: definitely no reading, Hal definitely lives, Ryjae is probably dead. Protect storyteller: probably no reading, Hal is probably dead, Ryjae definitely lives. Do you disagree that Hal wasn't the overwhelmingly obvious target to attack last Night? Do you disagree that, either way, he was probably blocking something that would be helpful to the town? Do you think that the death of Ryjae last Night wouldn't have been at least as helpful to us, when combined with a living detective, as a slight chance at a reading? Yes, Hal did seem like an obvious target for the dogooders. Probably the most obvious target. If I were a dogooder, I would still know this. And, up against a town full of power roles, I would assume that the most obvious player would be protected, so I would try to kill a less obvious player - someone who wasn't protected. It's a case of WIFOM, and I made the wrong choice. Well, it turns out that since Hal was PFK, I made the right choice, but only because I was wrong. Okay... I suppose that's fair enough. I was mostly concerned because you expressed your reason for protecting storyteller without any regard to the fact that Hal was the obvious target, so it seemed like it very well could have been some post hoc reasoning. And, on further consideration, given the color that NAF and storyteller have outlined, it looks like you're probably Scarecrow, because I can't imagine some level of mod confirmation for a disguise, so you're at worst PFK.
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 14, 2008 15:12:13 GMT -5
And, I believe that its for those reasons, that the scum wouldn't night kill them unless they also had reason to believe they were a separate threat. So I wouldn't waste protections on them, due to the unlikelihood of a death.
Which poses a problem to me - my distrust of the masons is growing, especially with the inconsistencies of NAF's story. Yes, there is a rational, and probably correct interpretation that he misunderstood what he was told, or was otherwise mislead by the PtB.
I think we continue on this tree we have set up for us, but I think the time at which we need to count rings is coming up in a few days.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 14, 2008 15:14:48 GMT -5
And, I believe that its for those reasons, that the scum wouldn't night kill them unless they also had reason to believe they were a separate threat. So I wouldn't waste protections on them, due to the unlikelihood of a death. Which poses a problem to me - my distrust of the masons is growing, especially with the inconsistencies of NAF's story. Yes, there is a rational, and probably correct interpretation that he misunderstood what he was told, or was otherwise mislead by the PtB. I think we continue on this tree we have set up for us, but I think the time at which we need to count rings is coming up in a few days. What inconsistancy? Please explicate. You can't just say shit like that and not provide details.
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Darth Sensitive
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With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 14, 2008 15:21:46 GMT -5
On preview: Say what? Here's what you said Day Two about the attack: So which is it, NAF? Were you attacked by people wearing disguises, or were you locked in a room, terrified that you were going to be attacked? That.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 14, 2008 15:23:40 GMT -5
On preview: Say what? Here's what you said Day Two about the attack: So which is it, NAF? Were you attacked by people wearing disguises, or were you locked in a room, terrified that you were going to be attacked? That. AH, so you are saying my responce wasn't good enough for you. I still don't see where there is an inconsitancy. And I had given the details of what happened on Day 3 I think. Go back and look see if it all checks out. I will wait.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 14, 2008 15:24:14 GMT -5
and this is why I usually use the word reply instead of response.
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 14, 2008 15:31:14 GMT -5
Neither and both. My PM is a bit vague as to what happened. The actual Night bit was I heard people outside my bedroom door, I hid from them and passed out from fright but rememberd that they were wearing disguises. (I swear I posted all of this before) Like I said, I don't know how the whole extra bit of knowledge thing works with all of this. It is possible that I WAS attacked and that the fear juice is what kept me safe and I came out the other side knowing something about my attacker. It is possible that something else happened. At this point I don't really know. It seems I made a couple of bad inferences when reading the mod PM to me that Night. (For example I initially believed that the attack had something to do with the shark proofing, something I now think is incorrect.) Essentially, yes. Not good enough. Maybe I'd have made the same mistakes. But I'm paranoid, and molegate (how I hate -gate as a suffix for scandal), the fact that it seemed to me like the masons drove the lynch away from Hush towards Clayface, and now this don't assuage that. If you win with town like you claim, 1 of you dying confirms the other three, and you'll still win when you're dead.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 14, 2008 15:42:06 GMT -5
Maybe I'd have made the same mistakes. But I'm paranoid, and molegate (how I hate -gate as a suffix for scandal), the fact that it seemed to me like the masons drove the lynch away from Hush towards Clayface, and now this don't assuage that. The last point - in re: Hush - is post hoc reasoning, and while we've all gotten completely absorbed in the color, reasoning that bad can't be allowed to stand unchallenged. If the Masons are scum. If the Masons are PFK. If the Masons are Town. If the Masons are semi-Town, with a secondary win condition. If the Masons are Aliens from Pluto. If the Masons are Batman and his six clones: Still they didn't know that Hush was PFK and atarus was Town. The fact that they (and heck, I - where's your suspicion of me on this point?) pushed the lynch of a townie over a playing solo Serial Killer means nothing regarding their alignment. You know, two Days ago I posited that Lex, Harley, or Ra's were likely to be scum. Ra's was not. Nothing has happened to change my opinion about the other two.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 14, 2008 15:42:10 GMT -5
Well, I've revealed already that I blocked Santo on Night 1.
I blocked everyone on night 2.
Night 3 I blocked Darth due to the scumminess I detected from my analysis of Klutz.
Last night, I blocked Rysto to see if his blocking on Night 1 by Atarus had any effect on the lack of a scum "kill" that night. Apparently not, unless the scum rotate on a whim who is the "killer". I also remember that he couldn't confirm Atarus blocking him, so I wanted to see what, if anything, would come of that. (Note: This isn't to say I think Rysto is necessarily scummy. I just took a chance to see what would happen.)
As far as blocking a mason, I don't think they're scum. The only reason I'd block them is to determine from town whether my blocks are revealed to the blockee. Rysto and Darth have made no mention of my blocking of them. Either they're hiding it for whatever reason, or I'm incognito in my blocks. (Something I had assumed at the beginning, but I also thought that my Big Freze would be an incognito thing as well, and it clearly wasn't.) The pirates have already said their powers suck, so I probably wouldn't be blocking someone useful. I would much rather block a pirate of my choice, though, so that scum don't have the chance to screw with my target by me revealing it ahead of time. (I can't stop them from screwing with me, though.)
Thoughts?
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Post by Rysto on Apr 14, 2008 16:51:05 GMT -5
You know, two Days ago I posited that Lex, Harley, or Ra's were likely to be scum. Ra's was not. Nothing has happened to change my opinion about the other two. Ok, I had to go back and find what on earth you were talking about. The gist of your argument is that the three of us got on the Kat bandwagon late. Now, personally I'd be more suspicious of the guy who put in a vote on kassia when there was a three-way tie between her, Kat and CIAS then the guy who had a singleton vote on tdpats and then Hawk, but then I'm biased.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 14, 2008 16:56:10 GMT -5
Of course, I've posited that kassia/DBI is scum, so that doesn't make much sense. I need to look more closely at what happened that Day.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 14, 2008 17:39:30 GMT -5
Maybe I'd have made the same mistakes. But I'm paranoid, and molegate (how I hate -gate as a suffix for scandal), the fact that it seemed to me like the masons drove the lynch away from Hush towards Clayface, and now this don't assuage that. The last point - in re: Hush - is post hoc reasoning, and while we've all gotten completely absorbed in the color, reasoning that bad can't be allowed to stand unchallenged. If the Masons are scum. If the Masons are PFK. If the Masons are Town. If the Masons are semi-Town, with a secondary win condition. If the Masons are Aliens from Pluto. If the Masons are Batman and his six clones: Still they didn't know that Hush was PFK and atarus was Town. The fact that they (and heck, I - where's your suspicion of me on this point?) pushed the lynch of a townie over a playing solo Serial Killer means nothing regarding their alignment. You know, two Days ago I posited that Lex, Harley, or Ra's were likely to be scum. Ra's was not. Nothing has happened to change my opinion about the other two. It's post hoc reasoning to an extent, but it isn't irrational to believe that they may have known the alignment of one or the other. But going through that first time, and just again now, I was struck by how hard they seemed to be saying CIAS would not be a PFK, when they shouldn't have had anything to the contrary. ... I think my reasoning is going to be hard to use to convince everybody else with, as I'm wavering a little bit on it, but I am going to stick with it.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 14, 2008 18:31:14 GMT -5
Not that I expect it to be worth much, but consider going back to re-read my posts from that day. I don't know what we were collectively smoking other than the same gut reactions to imperfect information as everyone else was subject too, aside from having the extra dynamic of 3 other players in which to trust who can all talk each other into making the wrong conclusion. If you read my posts from that time, I think you will see that I did seem conflicted. I simultaneously harp on weak points in what CIAS was saying, while assuring everyone that I wouldn't vote for him as that seemed to be the line other Masons were towing. I certainly was conflicted during that time, especially after composing posts, so I am guessing that conflict is detectable to others.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 14, 2008 18:32:18 GMT -5
I should say that Day and surrounding Days. I can't quite recall how long we spent trying to convince people that CIAS was not the best target.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Apr 14, 2008 18:46:03 GMT -5
At this point is it also worth it to have ryjae reiterate who he has supposedly hatted and what messages he may or may not have received?
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 14, 2008 18:51:03 GMT -5
At this point is it also worth it to have ryjae reiterate who he has supposedly hatted and what messages he may or may not have received? Always, worth it to have new info. Whatcha say Ryjae?
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Post by sinjin on Apr 14, 2008 18:56:08 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't posted yet. I'm getting confused by all the claims, winkie back and forths and night goings on. Going back and forth between player names and bat-names is also driving me batshit crazy. I'm trying to come up with a time line of all claims and actions by each individual. I'll have more time to post tomorrow.
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Darth Sensitive
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 14, 2008 19:12:09 GMT -5
Gee - I wonder if having avatars matching your character would help?
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Post by sinjin on Apr 14, 2008 19:17:25 GMT -5
Gee - I wonder if having avatars matching your character would help? Actually it doesn't because I only know who a few are anyway. I have modified the notation under my avatar to make my role name more clear.
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Post by ryjae on Apr 14, 2008 20:19:08 GMT -5
Gee - I wonder if having avatars matching your character would help? So BlaM is .... Batman?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Apr 14, 2008 22:50:06 GMT -5
Hope everyone is having a good time! Keep up the good work my insane little townies!
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 14, 2008 23:19:18 GMT -5
For a top of the page votecount...
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