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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 10:03:39 GMT -5
Preferably the PFK? We need to reduce the scum's numbers by at least one. Every scum we take out gives us a bigger cushion in case we mis-lynch. The PFK hasn't been killing anyone, and no-one's gotten hats or anything, so her win condition doesn't put us in any sort of immediate danger. Now what does have me worried is that the scum knew she was PFK. In fact, I'm willing to bet that hawkeyop has been playing honest with both his power, and the fact that he found Ryjae as PFK. He gave us a PFK, one who was dangerous to scum and town. He said himself that his power works best on outing PFK's. However, I think he's investigated many more people than he told us. He's the scum investigator, and has only been giving town information that benefits everybody. He lied about DBI in order for scum to assume a PFK role with tdpatriots. He knew she couldn't counter-claim for some reason. This would explain that they don't view her as a threat, as they did Ryjae. I'd be willing to consider lynching her Day VII, but there are way too many scum out there right now, and lynching a PFK won't net us info or a numbers advantage. We take her out, and scum gets closer to their win condition tonight. And remember, scum has enough numbers that they can swing a lynch to non-scum, something we can't afford. We know what scum's win goal is, and to paraphrase Blam's arguments for lynchign Ryjae, better to go with the enemy we do know than the one we don't. At least for now. See, this argument doesn't make sense to me. If Hawk is a scum investigator, why would he pick out someone he hadn't investigated, and if he HAD investigated her and she WAS PFK, why would he say she was town and tie himself into a triple play lynch-a-thon. More logically, if he's scum, he'd know who the scum were, so when he found the last PFK, he could have safely assumed anyone else was town, and thus just come up with a good reason why he'd investigate someone else and just say they were town. I'm not getting the motivation behind this potential lie here at all. Oh good god, I have what is potentially the most idiotic power in the game and the masons are getting flack because we were trying to keep me alive. This is stupid. I am the penguin. Let's talk, what do you want to know, I will be totally straight with you. I think if you look at my posts you will see that I knew all the info Dark Smuf claimed before he posted it. I didn't think it would be that hard to find if you were actually looking. As for why the lie, if you can't figure out that it was important to set up the vanilla mason as the taget for scum instead of the only mason who has a power, than you are all idiots. As for BlaM's question, I can not talk to the pirates. I never said any differently and it is the truth. The pirates can, however, talk to each other and I have access to their boards. If I talk to the masons I lose my powers for a Day/Night cycle. I did at one point pop onto the mason boards to share my information with them in case I died (that's how smurf got his info.) At the time the most recent news I had recieved was that PFK's were currently at the same number as masons and that Do Gooders outnumbered PFK's. Since then I have learned that there are no more bonus Night Kills and that batman has a utility belt and is causing the post restrictions. (It has a batarang and the Shark repelant.) The info I learn is dumb, but slightly usefull. I think we can use it to confirm BlaM and DBI and Brewha as not Batman (yay ) You are being flipping idiots for getting so hung up on this.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 21, 2008 10:03:58 GMT -5
What exactly do you think my power is? Investigate multiple people per day and find their exact win condition? Does that make sense to you? Does my actions at the end of the previous day support that? No, investigate one person per night and find out their win condition/alignment. You've had three nights we're you weren't blocked by me. You've only had one investigation that's been verified. You've had one that's contested. You've had one that came back as unknown, even though it was a PFK, which you said yourself your power is best for. Maybe on night one, you didn't investigate CIAS (who, IIRC, was exposed by the time you clame out with your role). Maybe you investigated DBI and discovered who whe was, but felt she was no immediate danger to scum, and so you kept that under your hat. Then, since you know DBI's exposure would create an insta-lynch for her, scum got together and put tdpatriots as a PFK claim, knowing that DBI wouldn't counter-claim. After all, scum took out one investigator, and knew who the second one was. And clearly targeted him the following night. So maybe scum felt like taking a gamble that could pay off into the end game. At that point, no one was connected to tdpats, so even if he got exposed, it wouldn't expose any of the other scum. A stretch? Possibly. But in a game with dissembling masons. three pro-town roleblockers, roughly half the starting characters working against town, with the possibility of one townie becoming PFK and another PFK becoming townie, and a detective who can vig people, nothing seems out of the realm of possibility anymore. Besides, this is all for discussion. I've placed my vote, and more and more it seems the best choice for town. Until today, there was no information to be gained from tdpartriot's lynch. Now, there's a wealth of it. So my vote sits where it does, and will stay there barring some other weird claim out of left-field.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 10:07:28 GMT -5
Dear God, this is getting convoluted. Amen to that, and damned if I know what to do. I think the biggest problem is that for all of our successes so far in terms of catching out PFK and even scum, we have done a terrible job at the other side of the game: establishing confirmed Townies. From my perspective, there is literally no one in the game of whose allegiance I am certain (apart from my own). The entire purpose of a Mason faction in most games is to give the town a solid core of confirmable players, but this Mason corps has been so gleeful about abusing the Town's trust that we'd be fools to take anything they've said at face value. So let's see: We're down to 12 players. If there are six anti-Town elements remaining in the game in any combination, we've lost barring miraculous intervention. If there are four scum and one PFK remaining, we should not lynch the PFK if we can avoid it. With the PFK, it's currently 8-4, Town. Lynch the PFK and lose someone to a Night kill and toMorrow it's 6-4 Town, and lynch or lose with little to go on. We need to preserve our mislynches, and pressure the Do-Gooders, if a PFK appears to be lasting, to take care of them for us. If there are three scum and two PFK remaining, we pretty much have license to do what's safest for toDay. Fuck. This is impossible. Gah!
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 10:25:46 GMT -5
Okay, and in light of Rysto's claim, I call bullshit. You CLAIM to have investigated the Joker on the Night you were blocked, how do we know you didn't do it another Night? Night One: blocked by atarusNight Two: blocked by HoopyDay Three: Santo was lynched. At what point do you think that I got a chance to investigate the Joker? Well, Harley Quinn's colour certainly suggests it, doesn't it? Maybe. I can't prove this to you definitively one way or the other, but consider this: if I were PFK, why the fuck would I even bring up the secret win condition? None of you know about it, so I could have just omitted that part of my PM. Now you're starting to misrepresent what I said, and that makes you suspicious as hell. What I said was: I don't know why Hawk lied. I offered two possibilities. Here's another: maybe the Do-Gooders knew that there was a Mad Bomber out there somewhere, and knowing that, Ryjae was obviously the bomber, wasn't he? First a question for Rysto: You didn't get any flavor text when I blocked you, did you? I did, in fact. While I'm still alive, we should consider the following: Darth should claim his powers and explain why he didn't get any indication that he was blocked, or if he was, what the flavour was. @naf: Hang on just a second here. Do you count as a Mason? Because if so, then we have 2 PFKs still alive, and then tdpats wasn't lying. And why the hell did Smurf go with that "approximately" 5 Do-Gooders bullshit when he knew that the correct information was "more than 3"?
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 10:30:26 GMT -5
Dear God, this is getting convoluted. Amen to that, and damned if I know what to do. I think the biggest problem is that for all of our successes so far in terms of catching out PFK and even scum, we have done a terrible job at the other side of the game: establishing confirmed Townies. From my perspective, there is literally no one in the game of whose allegiance I am certain (apart from my own). The entire purpose of a Mason faction in most games is to give the town a solid core of confirmable players, but this Mason corps has been so gleeful about abusing the Town's trust that we'd be fools to take anything they've said at face value. So let's see: We're down to 12 players. If there are six anti-Town elements remaining in the game in any combination, we've lost barring miraculous intervention. If there are four scum and one PFK remaining, we should not lynch the PFK if we can avoid it. With the PFK, it's currently 8-4, Town. Lynch the PFK and lose someone to a Night kill and toMorrow it's 6-4 Town, and lynch or lose with little to go on. We need to preserve our mislynches, and pressure the Do-Gooders, if a PFK appears to be lasting, to take care of them for us. If there are three scum and two PFK remaining, we pretty much have license to do what's safest for toDay. Fuck. This is impossible. Gah! Story this is stupid. Where have we ever abused the towns trust. If you really think that, you are far more short sighted than I had given you credit for.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 10:32:44 GMT -5
Oh, and as to the Masons lying: big fucking deal. They just lied about which of them had a power, and that means we can't trust anything that they say anymore? They're confirmed pro-Town players, for fuck's sake! I lied about knowing that atarus blocked me; does that mean that you can't trust me, either? In an no-vanilla game, power roles are going to lie when it's to the Town's benefit.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 10:41:43 GMT -5
@naf: Hang on just a second here. Do you count as a Mason? Because if so, then we have 2 PFKs still alive, and then tdpats wasn't lying. And why the hell did Smurf go with that "approximately" 5 Do-Gooders bullshit when he knew that the correct information was "more than 3"? Well I don't know. I assume (based on the wording of my PM) that I do count as a mason. So the answer is more than 4 not more than 3. I guessed at the time that there were 5 Do Gooders alive, because if there were more than that, the game started with 7 Do Gooders and the town was well and truely fucked from the get go.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 10:43:01 GMT -5
I am the penguin. Let's talk, what do you want to know, I will be totally straight with you. You have given us no reason to expect that the last sentence quoted above is anything resembling true. With all due respect, bite me. It was useful to do what you did, but the lie about which of you was the Penguin was not the first time you (and your group) lied. Since Day One the Masons have been yanking us back and forth with bullshit: we can talk off-board! No, we can't! There are only three of us! No wait, there are four! No wait, there are three! No wait, there are four, and Dark Smurf is the Penguin! There are "approximately five" Do-Gooders left! No wait, the Do-Gooders "outnumber the PFK!" Dark Smurf isn't the Penguin!You and your group have created more confusion then the scum and the PFK put together. I still have no fucking idea how many of what there are left in the game, because the power you have worked so frigging hard to protect is incredibly vague and you're not accurately reporting your results anyway. You've sown disinformation at every turn, and we're "idiots" for getting hung up on it? Fuck that. So why the hell didn't your proxy report that information, instead of what was actually reported. If you yourself describe the info you receive as "dumb" and only "slightly useful," why have you placed such a massive premium on protecting yourself? Once again: Bite me. The Masons have been lying the whole game long. We're frustrated because we can't trust a word that you say. As I said when the day began, if you wanted to be trusted, you should have behaved in a vaguely trustworthy fashion.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 10:44:25 GMT -5
Oh, and as to the Masons lying: big fucking deal. They just lied about which of them had a power, and that means we can't trust anything that they say anymore? They're confirmed pro-Town players, for fuck's sake! I lied about knowing that atarus blocked me; does that mean that you can't trust me, either? In an no-vanilla game, power roles are going to lie when it's to the Town's benefit. Ah, you know what, fuck it. My vote is in, I've made the minimum post count for toDay. I'm out.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Apr 21, 2008 10:51:11 GMT -5
So let me get this straight, I'm being "outed" as a Do-Gooder based on a process of elimination following information gleaned from proven liars? /facepalm Oh, and as to the Masons lying: big fucking deal. They just lied about which of them had a power, and that means we can't trust anything that they say anymore? They're confirmed pro-Town players, for fuck's sake! I lied about knowing that atarus blocked me; does that mean that you can't trust me, either? In an no-vanilla game, power roles are going to lie when it's to the Town's benefit. There's something a bit unsettling about the author of this post admitting to being so indifferent to lying.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 10:54:21 GMT -5
I am the penguin. Let's talk, what do you want to know, I will be totally straight with you. You have given us no reason to expect that the last sentence quoted above is anything resembling true. That's fair. It misses the point, but it's fair. If you look at what was lied about, it is only informationt that will help the scum. Knowing the exact number of masons and which one is the best one to kill are the only things we lied about. I have done my best to keep everything else as clear as possible. With all due respect, bite me. It was useful to do what you did, but the lie about which of you was the Penguin was not the first time you (and your group) lied. Since Day One the Masons have been yanking us back and forth with bullshit: we can talk off-board! No, we can't! There are only three of us! No wait, there are four! No wait, there are three! No wait, there are four, and Dark Smurf is the Penguin! There are "approximately five" Do-Gooders left! No wait, the Do-Gooders "outnumber the PFK!" Dark Smurf isn't the Penguin!You and your group have created more confusion then the scum and the PFK put together. I still have no fucking idea how many of what there are left in the game, because the power you have worked so frigging hard to protect is incredibly vague and you're not accurately reporting your results anyway. You've sown disinformation at every turn, and we're "idiots" for getting hung up on it? Fuck that. Only with regard to the numbers of masons and what the mason power is. Sorry you disagree with that play, but I think you are wrong. So why the hell didn't your proxy report that information, instead of what was actually reported. Damned if I know. I only had one shot to talk to them and it cost me my powers for a Day Night cycle. It wasn't exactly easy for me to convey the info to them. I think smurf was mostly parroting what I had already said in the thread. If you yourself describe the info you receive as "dumb" and only "slightly useful," why have you placed such a massive premium on protecting yourself? Some information is better then no infomation. Do you diagree? Once again: Bite me. The Masons have been lying the whole game long. We're frustrated because we can't trust a word that you say. As I said when the day began, if you wanted to be trusted, you should have behaved in a vaguely trustworthy fashion. Fine. Lynch us then. At some point you have to trust that someone in this game is playing on the same side as you. WE WERE CALLED MASONS. MASON HAS A REALLY SPECIFIC DEFENITION IN MAFIA AND IT MEANS TOWN. If we weren't town we wouldn't be masons. That should have been all you needed to know.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 10:57:18 GMT -5
@naf: Hang on just a second here. Do you count as a Mason? Because if so, then we have 2 PFKs still alive, and then tdpats wasn't lying. And why the hell did Smurf go with that "approximately" 5 Do-Gooders bullshit when he knew that the correct information was "more than 3"? Well I don't know. I assume (based on the wording of my PM) that I do count as a mason. So the answer is more than 4 not more than 3. I guessed at the time that there were 5 Do Gooders alive, because if there were more than that, the game started with 7 Do Gooders and the town was well and truely fucked from the get go. NAF, doesn't that mean that there were 4 PFKs when you got that information?
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 10:58:52 GMT -5
Well I don't know. I assume (based on the wording of my PM) that I do count as a mason. So the answer is more than 4 not more than 3. I guessed at the time that there were 5 Do Gooders alive, because if there were more than that, the game started with 7 Do Gooders and the town was well and truely fucked from the get go. NAF, doesn't that mean that there were 4 PFKs when you got that information? That is my understanding of things.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 10:59:37 GMT -5
So let me get this straight, I'm being "outed" as a Do-Gooder based on a process of elimination following information gleaned from proven liars? Proven Town, in the case of the Masons. Nice smudge. Are you going to argue that either the Masons' lie about which of them had a power, or my lie about not knowing that atarus blocked me, were anti-Town?
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 21, 2008 11:01:45 GMT -5
Well, barring the fact that masons sometimes have their own win conditions, sure. And barring the fact that you have distorted the truth, sure.
Isn't it you who says that I assume that everyone as a group is at least as smart as me by myself? Give us some goddamned credit - let us decide what we think the numbers are.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:03:52 GMT -5
Oh, for Fuck's sake. When did you receive this information? If I claimed and only outed one Do Gooder...
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:04:58 GMT -5
Oh, for Fuck's sake. When did you receive this information? If I claimed and only outed one Do Gooder... Hey, what's the big deal if the Masons lie? Right?
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:05:49 GMT -5
Lies, to pro-Town ends, I can deal with. Mistakes about the number of scum I can't.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Apr 21, 2008 11:06:14 GMT -5
Let me be clear, I am not disputing that the masons are town. I am simply making the point that you've (the masons) made the decision to lie on more than one occasion and that means I have to view the posts with skepticism.
I think that's fair, isn't it? When you make the decision to lie you have to accept that your credibility is going to come into question, even if your intentions might be genuine.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 21, 2008 11:08:21 GMT -5
Well, today, molefan has displayed all the emotional maturity of a five year old, so he might not get that.
This game is fun and everything, but GAH!
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:08:45 GMT -5
Lies, to pro-Town ends, I can deal with. Mistakes about the number of scum I can't. You know, like I said before, I need to be out of this line of discussion. It's doing my blood pressure, and the Town, no good at all. Carry on.
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Post by sinjin on Apr 21, 2008 11:10:16 GMT -5
storyteller, thankyou for expressing all of my feelings about the masons in general and molefan in particular.
Rysto: Why did you investigate DBI instead of hawkeyeop?
NAF: What do you mean by no more bonus Night Kills? Does his belt also have a "Batflash Grenade' on it? Are you a mason or are you not?
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 11:10:49 GMT -5
Oh, for Fuck's sake. When did you receive this information? If I claimed and only outed one Do Gooder... YES, yes, this is what I believe to be true. I got the infomation that PFK=Masons in numbers while there were still 4 of us alive. I got this information Day 3, the morning after the Big Freeze. My information comes at the start of the Day so was not effefcted by the Freeze. It said that now that Hush was dead there were exactly the same number of PFK's as in the mason group but that Do Gooder's outnumbered PFK's.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:12:37 GMT -5
Well, today, molefan has displayed all the emotional maturity of a five year old, so he might not get that. This game is fun and everything, but GAH! The only post posts mole has made in this thread is to publicly shove it in the Do-Gooder's face that they went for the bait instead of the Penguin. If you're upset about that post, I have to conclude that you're upset that you just got taken for a ride.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 11:13:43 GMT -5
NAF: What do you mean by no more bonus Night Kills? Does his belt also have a "Batflash Grenade' on it? Are you a mason or are you not? Just what I said. The only kills in the game are the lynch and the Do Gooder NK. This is how I knew RyJae was lying about the bomb hats. It didn't mention a flash grenade specifically. It said there were several canisters (including shark repelant) and a batarang. I am the leader of the masons, I assume that this means I count toward the mason group number, but the mods refused to clarify when I asked.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 21, 2008 11:14:37 GMT -5
Lies, to pro-Town ends, I can deal with. Mistakes about the number of scum I can't. You know, like I said before, I need to be out of this line of discussion. It's doing my blood pressure, and the Town, no good at all. Carry on. Story - it's not pressing, but I would like to see (and refute) your case for me as scum Today. I don't think it's as pressing as it otherwise would have been, but I still think it needs to be done.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:14:50 GMT -5
There have been hints that story might have a one-shot night-kill ability, so I took aim at the unknown player I thought it was least likely that story would hit(other than you and Hoopy, who have both claimed powers).
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Post by Hawkmod on Apr 21, 2008 11:16:08 GMT -5
Hawk, since you're here, can you please provide a full claim with your PM. I guess there isn't much point of keeping my last secret.
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Post by sinjin on Apr 21, 2008 11:16:26 GMT -5
And by the time I can post my last question is answered.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:16:27 GMT -5
It said that now that Hush was dead there were exactly the same number of PFK's as in the mason group but that Do Gooder's outnumbered PFK's. Oh, so before the Joker was dead. Jesus, you scared me.
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