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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:18:06 GMT -5
There have been hints that story might have a one-shot night-kill ability, so I took aim at the unknown player I thought it was least likely that story would hit(other than you and Hoopy, who have both claimed powers). Obviously, I do not have a one-shot Night-kill ability. I am weighing a role claim. I am one of the few non-claimants remaining, and of them, potentially the only, or one of the only, pro-Town players. Claiming would be a sizable risk. Thoughts must be thunk. brewha, if you're out there: do you have any reason to suspect that the attack made on you this Morning has any more actual effect than the Shark Repellant?
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:20:37 GMT -5
Thanks to Koldanar's confirmation, I don't think that a claim is required, story. Use your judgment.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
Posts: 18
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 21, 2008 11:21:26 GMT -5
Well, today, molefan has displayed all the emotional maturity of a five year old, so he might not get that. This game is fun and everything, but GAH! The only post posts mole has made in this thread is to publicly shove it in the Do-Gooder's face that they went for the bait instead of the Penguin. If you're upset about that post, I have to conclude that you're upset that you just got taken for a ride. Well, the fact that he was taunting the town for being so stupid as to believe him in the exact same breath as he said that they were confirmed to be town combined with an OMGUS! vote is what made me say that, but smudge away.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:21:47 GMT -5
Hawk -
Two questions, no implied judgments:
1. Was the statement that you can find PFKs better than Do-Gooders just plain untrue? Your role PM indicates that you get an indication of alignment, but you have said in the past that this is not the case.
2. What do you get as feedback? You targeted DBI: what, exactly, did the mods send back? A line that said: "Alignment: Baddie?" Some color-flavored babbling from DBI? Something else?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:22:14 GMT -5
Thanks to Koldanar's confirmation, I don't think that a claim is required, story. Use your judgment. It would not be to confirm my own alignment that I would claim. It would be for other purposes.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Apr 21, 2008 11:23:30 GMT -5
I'm not going to respond to all of the Mason-criticism, but this one I will: Like revealing details of the roleplayer I claimed to know about on Day One, which caused all of the molegate idiocy in the first place? Didn't I always say I wouldn't do that? The only reason anybody ever claimed it was Dark Smurf was to protect the real Penguin. Well, the Penguin is still in the game and I hope it's clear to everyone that I for one have no intention of revealing who he or she is. There is simply no benefit whatsoever to the townies, and every benefit to the do-gooders. It is good that you know everything about the game set-up, and can therefore tell definitively which lies benefit the Town, and which do not? Oh, you don't know the entire set-up? You have no idea what benefit the Town could have gained from a more honest approach (which could have included, "hey, the four of us are Masons; one of us is the Penguin but we're not going to share which," by the way)? Oh. Well, that's less good, then. Look, I've had this argument is past games and I frankly haven't the patience or the typing stamina to hash it out again. All I'll say is that I hope that the real Penguin has some unbelievable powers. I hope that he has an optional Night kill, Day and Night investigations, and the ability to keep everyone in the game alive for a Night at his discretion. I hope he can fart perfume and turn lead into gold. I sure as heck hope that the little bits and pieces of game set-up information you all have been leaking aren't the extent of his abilities. Because, in the service of protecting the Penguin, you have sown confusion and frustration among the Town, your putative allies. You have made the jobs of the other power roles much more difficult. You have given to the scum, wrapped in a pretty silk bow, perfectly defensible reasons to push suspicion at the Masons. You have risked the very real clusterfuck that would have occurred had Hal Briston decided to check out the Dark Smurf = Penguin connection for any reason. You've done all this because you've prioritized the protection of the Penguin over team play. I hope he's worth it. You all keep on playing whatever game you're playing over there in your corner. The Town will be over here, trying to work together to find scum. ---- Addressing the rest of the Town: the deaths of Cookies and Smurf have definitively put to rest the possibility of scum or PFK Masons. Unfortunately - and especially given the grotesque degree to which the Masons have jerked us around throughout this game - we cannot rest comfortable that they don't have an alternate win condition opposed to our own. We can't lynch them. The numbers make that clear (see below for more). But they can't be trusted. Anything they've said must be considered as likely to be a lie as the truth. And we must look carefully for a way to make sure that if they have an alternate win condition, it doesn't get triggered. OK, while I'm tempted to respond to this with a resounding "screw you", I will point out in my own defence - rather than that of the Masons - that claiming that Smurf was the Penguin was not my idea, that I never supported it until the claim was actually made, and that not doing so then would have given a HUGE lift to the do-gooders by basically undermining my own side. That said, your bitching at the Masons for trying to protect a power player is seriously getting on my tit. Exactly who's been harmed by the claim that Smurf was the Penguin? As far as I can see, the do-gooders have lost one opportunity to night-kill a far stronger power player. Instead they've wasted that kill on a completely useless rehydrated pirate. And if they want to go after the Penguin now, there's at least a 50% chance that they'll do exactly the same thing again - that's assuming that either NAF or me is the Penguin, and I'm not saying that that's the case. So basically all we've done is caused the do-gooders to waste a night kill. And you say we're not "team players"? THE MASONS SACRIFICED ONE OF THEIR OWN IN ORDER TO GIVE THE TOWN A BETTER CHANCE AT WINNING. Or hasn't that aspect of things occurred to you? Well Smurf was willing to make that sacrifice, and I'm about to paint a fairly large target on my own back by saying that yes, the Penguin is important to the Town. Right now he/she's important in a way that nobody else is. So many of the other power roles in this game have been outed - Brewha, Hoopy, etc. But here we have a role that the scum hasn't identified and can't put a name to. They can't be deliberately roleblocked, they can't be night-killed without risk of wasting yet another night-kill on a useless rehydrated pirate. Let's leave it that way, shall we?
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:25:53 GMT -5
Well, the fact that he was taunting the town for being so stupid as to believe him in the exact same breath as he said that they were confirmed to be town combined with an OMGUS! vote is what made me say that, but smudge away. He's pretty clearly addressing the Do-Gooders here. So, I repeat: why on earth are you taking this post so personally?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Apr 21, 2008 11:28:25 GMT -5
The only post posts mole has made in this thread is to publicly shove it in the Do-Gooder's face that they went for the bait instead of the Penguin. If you're upset about that post, I have to conclude that you're upset that you just got taken for a ride. Well, the fact that he was taunting the town for being so stupid as to believe him in the exact same breath as he said that they were confirmed to be town combined with an OMGUS! vote is what made me say that, but smudge away. Erm... I'm being accused of an "OMGUS!" vote? Some explanation, please? The only thing I'm aware of those letters standing for is "Oh my God you suck" and I don't think my vote was ever meant to suggest that... I made my first post to provoke an angry reaction from (I hoped) a do-gooder. (Looks like I got one.) I made my first vote because Darth had voted for me, a confirmed Mason, despite the fact that two other Masons had just been revealed as townies. That seems completely illogical to me unless you've got no qualms about voting for townies... I can only think of one reason why someone would have no such qualms. Storyteller, as tiresome as he is, never acted voted for me.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:29:42 GMT -5
molefan - I've outlined my reasons for disliking the decision your group made repeatedly in the last two pages. I believe that your approach has been irresponsible and harmful. You will not convince me that I'm wrong about that. At the moment, though, it doesn't matter, and I'm not going to waste pages on this.
------------------
It would appear, unless I am misreading, that hawkeyeop is - color aside - making the same claim as Rysto. There may be three role-blockers, but there are not two alignment investigators; one of them is lying. Identifying which may be the biggest key to the entire game for us.
unvote Darth Sensitive
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:30:19 GMT -5
Storyteller, as tiresome as he is, never acted voted for me. You're kind of a dick, aren't you?
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Post by Hawkmod on Apr 21, 2008 11:32:13 GMT -5
It was an educated guess, based on the fact I knew I couldn't investigate Batman, and how the power works. It just seemed to me that criminals with there own goals would be the most likely group to ramble to themselves. I may have been incorrect, but it wasn't meant to deliberately mislead.
I can't quote it right? Basically, some color and a role alignment.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:33:30 GMT -5
It was an educated guess, based on the fact I knew I couldn't investigate Batman, and how the power works. It just seemed to me that criminals with there own goals would be the most likely group to ramble to themselves. I may have been incorrect, but it wasn't meant to deliberately mislead. I can't quote it right? Basically, some color and a role alignment. All I'm trying to figure out here is whether you are directly counterclaiming Rysto. It would appear that you are; your claimed roles are functionally identical. Right?
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Post by Hawkmod on Apr 21, 2008 11:35:39 GMT -5
All I'm trying to figure out here is whether you are directly counterclaiming Rysto. It would appear that you are; your claimed roles are functionally identical. Right? Well, given that we are claiming different results for DBI, I can pretty safely say Rysto is lying. Or, for your purposes, that one of us is lying.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:38:34 GMT -5
All I'm trying to figure out here is whether you are directly counterclaiming Rysto. It would appear that you are; your claimed roles are functionally identical. Right? Well, given that we are claiming different results for DBI, I can pretty safely say Rysto is lying. Or, for your purposes, that one of us is lying. Well, the thing is, before your full claim, I was pretty sure it was you who was lying, because the way you had described your role sounded improbable to me. But it seems that your role (as claimed) is really a pretty straightforward Detective role, as is Rysto's. Which leaves us up a bit of a creek evaluating the relative truth value of the claims without killing one of you, which I think we'd be better off not doing.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Apr 21, 2008 11:43:25 GMT -5
Storyteller, as tiresome as he is, never acted voted for me. You're kind of a dick, aren't you? OK... we're not going to agree on the necessity of the Penguin deception, ever. That much is clear. So how about we both agree to stop this now?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:45:17 GMT -5
You're kind of a dick, aren't you? OK... we're not going to agree on the necessity of the Penguin deception, ever. That much is clear. So how about we both agree to stop this now? I didn't know we were still going, until you dropped a random personal attack into a reply to someone else.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 11:46:35 GMT -5
Unknown. 1. HawkeyeOp* 4. Darth Sensitive (replacing Captain Klutz) 20. Rysto* 21. Hoopyfrood # 24. Sinjin
*claimed Detcective # Claimed Role blocker
Attacked by the Bat 17. Death By Irony (replacing kassia) 8. Brewha 5. BlasterMaster (replacing Zuma)
Masons 23. Molefan1981 15. NAF1138
Connected to a Baddie 13. Storyteller
Probably PFK (I know this is in dispute, but I am not sure if that still stands. 7. tdpatriots12
There are 5 totally unknown (in their alignment) players left.
Of those five at least 3 are Do Gooders. If we play it safe tonight and lynch any of them that has not claimed Detective we are probably going to net us a Do Gooder.
vote Darth Sensitive
but I am willing to change to Sinjin or Hoopy.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 11:47:06 GMT -5
crap, forgot to color it.
Vote Darth Sensitive
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Post by Holy Moley! on Apr 21, 2008 11:49:15 GMT -5
OK... we're not going to agree on the necessity of the Penguin deception, ever. That much is clear. So how about we both agree to stop this now? I didn't know we were still going, until you dropped a random personal attack into a reply to someone else. Oh for goodness' sake... You're right, but I'm not attacking you NOW, so lay off!
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:50:28 GMT -5
Unknown. 1. HawkeyeOp* 4. Darth Sensitive (replacing Captain Klutz) 20. Rysto* 21. Hoopyfrood # 24. Sinjin *claimed Detcective # Claimed Role blocker OK. Is there any reason to expect that being "attacked by the Bat" has any bearing on alignment, except to probably confirm that the player in question is not actually Batman? I mean, given that the Shark Repellant, for example, has no evident actual effect, why wouldn't Batman use it on one of his fellows? If he didn't at least consider doing so, using it would have the effect of confirming Townies each time he used the ability. I think these three have to go on list 1. Yup. This is in dispute, yes, because Rysto claims DBI is a PFK, which based on your numbers suggest that tdpatriots12 is not. If Hawk is telling the truth, tdpats is probably (but not definitely) PFK. There are 5 totally unknown (in their alignment) players left. Of those five at least 3 are Do Gooders. If we play it safe tonight and lynch any of them that has not claimed Detective we are probably going to net us a Do Gooder. vote Darth Sensitive but I am willing to change to Sinjin or Hoopy.[/quote]
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:51:18 GMT -5
Crap, sorry about the bad quoting at the bottom of that post.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 11:53:51 GMT -5
Crap, sorry about the bad quoting at the bottom of that post. It's ok, I did the same to you earlier.
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 11:54:33 GMT -5
Which leaves us up a bit of a creek evaluating the relative truth value of the claims without killing one of you, which I think we'd be better off not doing. The easy way to confirm the claims, other than killing one of us, is to lynch DBI. The trouble is, that's basically a guaranteed mislynch no matter who's telling the truth. But on the other hand, as a PFK she could steal the win from the Town, so from my perspective it's critical that we take her out soon. NAF offers up an intriguing possibility, though: don't test the claims. Lynch Darth, and leave the Do Gooders with the choice of confirming one of us or leaving a cop alive. Unless DBI can win overNight, that may be the best answer.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 11:55:04 GMT -5
Is there any reason to expect that being "attacked by the Bat" has any bearing on alignment, except to probably confirm that the player in question is not actually Batman? I mean, given that the Shark Repellant, for example, has no evident actual effect, why wouldn't Batman use it on one of his fellows? If he didn't at least consider doing so, using it would have the effect of confirming Townies each time he used the ability. I think these three have to go on list 1. None other than the information I got this morning is totally useless if the attacks don't mean something.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 21, 2008 11:57:37 GMT -5
None other than the information I got this morning is totally useless if the attacks don't mean something. Well... what if some of the attacks mean something, and some do not? The Mods have basically out and said that the shark repellent thing was a red herring - "toothless," I think they said. What if the shark repellant can be used every Day and is a distration, but the flash-bang they used on brewha actually does something (like role-blocks him for toNight)? And the flash-bang has limited uses but the shark repellant is infinite? Or something? I'm reaching, I know, but this has relevance in a lot of ways.
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Post by sinjin on Apr 21, 2008 12:11:07 GMT -5
I don't have a lot of time right now. Supposedly the shark repellent acts as a posting restriction. Two of the folks who were sprayed violated that restriction. How about letting us in on what the consequences of that violation were?
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Post by Rysto on Apr 21, 2008 12:11:14 GMT -5
Hawkeyeop, I notice that you haven't told us who you investigated last night, or what the result was. You're not very good at this false claiming thing, are you? The first thing any outed Cop does every Morning is present his results.
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Post by brewha on Apr 21, 2008 12:12:00 GMT -5
brewha, if you're out there: do you have any reason to suspect that the attack made on you this Morning has any more actual effect than the Shark Repellant? The effect of the flash bang is to weaken me and it was very clearly spelled out in my mod PM. In addition to making me talk with very small words, it has also prevented me from blocking/protecting anyone for one Day/Night. That sucks, but thankfully, it hasn't affected my ability to self protect.
So, while I'm worthless as a power role for now. I'll be back to full strength toMorrow (next Mon).
I was actually considering letting the DoGooders believe that the flash bang had the full effect of rendering me powerless. That way they would attack me tonight and it would be wasted. But, I feared that if we have another protector role in the town, that they would waste their protection on me.
So, I'll self protect again toNight and hopefully toMorrow night I'll have someone that I can usefully protect or block.
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Post by NAF1138 on Apr 21, 2008 12:14:33 GMT -5
I don't have a lot of time right now. Supposedly the shark repellent acts as a posting restriction. Two of the folks who were sprayed violated that restriction. How about letting us in on what the consequences of that violation were? Nothing happened to me. I assumed it was because of the big freeze. Did anything happend to you BlaM?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Apr 21, 2008 12:16:56 GMT -5
Which leaves us up a bit of a creek evaluating the relative truth value of the claims without killing one of you, which I think we'd be better off not doing. Which is why we should lynch tdpatriots. It comes down to this. Masons are town. Masons say we had 5 PFK to begin the game. Town has lynched two. One was killed by another. One was killed by scum. There is only one left. Regardless of how anyone feels about the who-is-who dissembling, there is no pro-town reason to lie about that. And we should assume that penguin is a mason for the number purposes that NAF mentions, otherwise there are no more PFK remaining, and everyone is lying about DBI and tdpatriots. Now, we have two results concerning DBI. One says she's PFK. One says she isn't. At the same time, tdpatriots has said he's PFK, and no one has counterclaimed him. So, we lynch tdpatriots and one of the following happens: 1) He's town. Uhhh, God I hope not. Because then I might as well start believing that red is blue; up is down; and your all figments of my imagination. 2) He's PFK. Rysto is lying about DBI being PFK. Rysto is no doubt scum. 3) He's scum. While this won't necessarily clear either of the other two, it buys us a scum death, and a chance to get more info. If scum kill either of the investigators (since we now know the only killing powers left are lynch and scum's standard night kill), it will answer our question for us. Otherwise, our investigators can investigate more tonight. We'll have more info. See, scum know that by killing our pro-town investigator, they damn one of their own. But by leaving him alive, they allow us more info from our investigator (and mis-info from the scum one). We will benefit. In much more ways then killing either of them at this point will accomplish, plus we risk lynching a town if we do this. So it seems pretty straightforward that we need to lynch tdpatriots. It's probably the best pro-town move at this point, because we get rid of a non-townie in exchange for information.
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