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Day One
May 24, 2007 21:44:11 GMT -5
Post by Kyrie Eleison on May 24, 2007 21:44:11 GMT -5
Updated unofficial vote count. I'm pretty sure that NAF's count that mhaye based his count on had an erroneous vote for Idle Thoughts in it, and I missed the KatiRoo's most recent vote in mine. I think mhaye also missed a vote for capybara, and that accounts for all of the discrepancies. I've added ArizonaTeach's recent vote as well: Poster | Votes | Voters | auntbeast | 1 | hockeymonkey | Kyrie Eleison | 1 | Idle Thoughts | ArizonaTeach | 1 | zuma | capybara | 4 | Blaster Master, fluiddruid, FlyingCowOfDoom, mhaye | FlyingCowOfDoom | 1 | NAF1138 | Lakai | 1 | panamajack | Autolycus | 2 | Kyrie Eleison, Mad The Swine | ComeToTheDarksideWeHaveCookies | 2 | Pleonast, Gadarene | Idle Thoughts | 1 | cowgirl | storyteller0910 | 1 | diggitcamara | MadTheSwine | 1 | KatiRoo | NAF1138 | 1 | ArizonaTeach |
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:08:05 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 24, 2007 22:08:05 GMT -5
I will probably vote for someone who has pinged my meager scumdar. I don't think Auto needs killin'-- even if he's not posting, if he's crew it's not good to lose him. Most other players seem pretty crew to me, but a couple of people have smelled funny. I distrust my distrust of a few because I fear I'm reacting to their reactions to me. So it might be someone whose play I'm not sure I understand/ think looks odd or whose suspicions look suspicious-- it might be in the end just because of different strategy. Actually, vote Idle Thoughts and not out of vendetta. He's just all over the place. Despite my distrust of my distrust. I might change my mind again, but I can't imagine to whom, and I seem to be coming back to him.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:18:53 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 24, 2007 22:18:53 GMT -5
Not that I've got much of a better suggestion, obviously, since my vote is based on the merest hint of odd phrasing, but I really think we'd be making a mistake lynching capybara, and I hope that we end up picking a better target in the end.
I fully admit that this sentiment is due mostly to capy's posting and analysis being almost completely in line with my own...I find it hard to believe that someone who's thinking as parallel to me as she is would be scum running a subterfuge. In fact, this feels very similar to the situation on Day Two of Mafia II (without all the histrionics, of course), where I was positive that Queuing was town because the two of us were thinking too much alike (even though our thinking that day ended up being ridiculously and fundamentally flawed). I'm getting the same vibe here.
In fact, I'm going to revote Autolycus in the hopes of propping up someone I think is a much better target, since obviously no one else appears poised to join me on Cookies.
Unvote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Vote Autolycus
If Auto does survive the day (and the night), I'm fully on board with Blaster's opinion that he needs to be forcibly subbed out if it looks like he's not going to be participating much for the next week. He knew the game when he signed up.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:38:08 GMT -5
Post by Caerie on May 24, 2007 22:38:08 GMT -5
I'm still not thinking that capybara is scum. She could be, but I'm getting much more of a newbie crew vibe than newbie pirate. Maybe I'm wrong, but just as a chivalrous gesture I can't vote for someone who is new on the first Day. If nothing else, that's kind of, well, mean. At least give her a little bit to get her sea legs, y'know? There's plenty of time to take her out later on if she still comes up scummy.
Autolycus, on the other hand? I'm not particularly convinced by his excuse and he isn't new.
++Vote Autolycus++
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:44:33 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on May 24, 2007 22:44:33 GMT -5
Not that I've got much of a better suggestion, obviously, since my vote is based on the merest hint of odd phrasing, but I really think we'd be making a mistake lynching capybara, and I hope that we end up picking a better target in the end. I fully admit that this sentiment is due mostly to capy's posting and analysis being almost completely in line with my own...I find it hard to believe that someone who's thinking as parallel to me as she is would be scum running a subterfuge. In fact, this feels very similar to the situation on Day Two of Mafia II (without all the histrionics, of course), where I was positive that Queuing was town because the two of us were thinking too much alike (even though our thinking that day ended up being ridiculously and fundamentally flawed). I'm getting the same vibe here. In fact, I'm going to revote Autolycus in the hopes of propping up someone I think is a much better target, since obviously no one else appears poised to join me on Cookies. Unvote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookiesVote AutolycusIf Auto does survive the day (and the night), I'm fully on board with Blaster's opinion that he needs to be forcibly subbed out if it looks like he's not going to be participating much for the next week. He knew the game when he signed up. I see your point, I just don't get the logic behind voting for Autolycus. That is, I'm not "ZOMG capybara is teh pirate LOLOLZZ!!!!1", but I've already made clear my reasoning for why I'm not in favor of lynching Autloycus. If you can make a case for another person, I might give it consideration. That said, simply because they're more likely to be pro-crew than pirates, I'm also not prepared to lynch any of the likely valuable players (like storyteller, NAF, and a few others) because I don't have a great read on them yet, and if they really are THAT intimidating, I imagine the pirates will begin their killings with one of them. [glow=red,2,300]Malacandra:[/glow]Can we get an official ruling on what constitutes lurking and if we can get Autolycus forcibly subbed if he fails ot meet that? I think that might help us decide if it's worth using a lynch or waiting it out.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:44:48 GMT -5
Post by KatiRoo on May 24, 2007 22:44:48 GMT -5
I'm going to go for the person posting the highest number of posts without any real content - pure fluff - and that means ... I am voting for you +++ MadThe Swine +++ have you even read the thread? Well, Mad, I did review your posts – all (at that time) 26 of them. These were my observations - Post #101 – vote Auntbeast with no discussion up to that point Post #166 – next substantive post – FOS capybara – for no good reason, says she’s making a lot of noise, just “trying to muddy the waters”. At that point, I thought capy’s musings were reasonable. Post #212 – next substantive post – accuses Aunty with two “scumtells” – lurking, and self-deprecation. I’d give her the benefit of the doubt on both of these issues. And that’s about it for substantive posts. Everything else are really side comments on subbing (and when), comments on Autolycus (some justified), conversational asides to players, etc. I’m keeping my vote for you
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:54:32 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 24, 2007 22:54:32 GMT -5
Well, it took me longer than I anticipated, but I did make it through everything. Something scummy is going on; I can see it, but it's much harder to unravel from this end than it was from the other end in the previous game. Still, I'll say what I'm thinking and see where it goes.
To the people currently voting for Autolycus: what the heck? Look, I get that it stinks that he's not participating right now. But he said he would be occupied for a while (right?), and presumably he said so before roles were even assigned. To view his absence as some sort of a scum tell makes no sense, given that he'd told everyone he was to be absent before he ever knew if he was scum or not. And to the people noting that he's had activity on the Dope: it takes considerably less time to throw off a quick post to a two page thread than it does to read through all 14 pages of this thread and post a useful reply. I see no reason to suspect Autolycus - obviously no reason to exonerate him, but no reason to suspect him either - and lynching him at this point, for no reason - is incredibly anti-town. FoS - Gadarene, MadtheSwine, and Kyrie Eleison. Especially Kyrie, who went from "I don't like the Autolycus lynch at all" to "yeah, OK, I'm on board" pretty darn quickly.
I do notice something else kind of weird, though. It concerns a player not much in the overall town eye - KatiRoo. Way back on pages 7-9, a bunch of folks - but notably MadtheSwine - were pointing fingers of suspicion (and casting votes) in the direction of Auntbeast. Their arguments were two - that she wasn't posting much and that she was playing the "I don't know what I'm doing" card too often. MadtheSwine, in particular, was concerned about the latter, noting that Auntbeast had done this three separate times by then.
Well, on page 9, after Mad outlined this thinking, KatiRoo says that her "suspicions are still coalescing around Auntbeast, not so much because of her lack of posting, but her 'I'm stupid' claim." So here, at least, KatiRoo is directly echoing Mad's analysis, just one page later.
Then, on page 13, she votes for Mad, accusing him of being the "person posting the highest number of posts without any real content - pure fluff."
Does this sequence strike anyone else as bizarrely inconsistent?
+++ vote KatiRoo +++
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:54:33 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 24, 2007 22:54:33 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I don't know what this is referring to. Can you clarify? It came, on the old ship, from a comment she made about it being so random or something like that. And in that, she's right. but it's been my experience in this game (as host) that those who actually point to the fact and mention the whole "randomness" of it, usually are scum. Because everyone already knows there's a certain level of randomness in the first round. Why go and say "OH my, it's so random for me" just all out and out there like that? So I agreed with her that it IS random to a degree, but come on, that's a given. That's just known. That's common sense..or should be. So why feel the need to make the point of saying it? My inconsistent replies aren't inconsistent at all. That's what I've been trying to say to you. Those people who have accused me of it, I feel, are either really, really, really obtuse (which in case it's no fault to them) or they're twisting my words so they fit a meaning that the accuser would like. Yeah, that is what I was doing. And while you may see it as aggressive, I don't. There were players already voting for other players at that time. I'd think that would be a show of a bit more aggression then just throwing out suspicions based on posts. This is true, but I still say that, sometime in the game or possibly at a later date, this should be remembered (what I said originally). It also wouldn't have surprised me if it eventually came up in this game without me ever mentioning it. What she was saying there was about a post I made where I hadn't, in fact, done what she was saying. So yeah, I am saying her impression at the time (and yours now) is wrong and based on twisted things. No. I'm suspicious of you because you're doing exactly what Kyrie and Hockey Monkey did earlier. Do you see me suspcious of ArizonaTeach? or of Cometothedarksidewehavecookies? Both have also said I'm suspicious to them. But there's a difference. They haven't made my posts out to be saying something I never meant or said. I don't think it was a HUGE thing in either case...but it was there.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 22:56:40 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 24, 2007 22:56:40 GMT -5
Post #212 – next substantive post – accuses Aunty with two “scumtells” – lurking, and self-deprecation. I’d give her the benefit of the doubt on both of these issues. As you did when you FoSed her for the latter of these things on page 9? I am now officially very happy with my vote.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Day One
May 24, 2007 23:10:56 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on May 24, 2007 23:10:56 GMT -5
I'm kind of bothered that Auto is getting a bunch of votes. I really don't want to see him go down today, and I think BM explained it best - it tells us almost nothing.
I'd almost vote capybara to keep her ahead of him, but that just doesn't feel right to me. I don't suspect her enough.
KatiRoo was further down my list, but storyteller's observation is interesting. It feels to me about the same as what I've got now, but maybe we can get something going here.
unvote Lakai
vote KatiRoo
Day ends in the wee hours of the morn for me, and I won't be back on. Stay safe everybody (unless you're a pirate*), hope for good luck in the Night.
*Bag us a pirate, Deadeye Dick! Choose poorly!
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Day One
May 24, 2007 23:17:32 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on May 24, 2007 23:17:32 GMT -5
I came home from work to find our broadband connection had gone tits-up, but all appears well now. I will be reading and re-reading and will post a vote shortly.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 23:28:36 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 24, 2007 23:28:36 GMT -5
Does this sequence strike anyone else as bizarrely inconsistent? ...yes...yes it does...especially (on preview) with what you just posted. I don't think my NAF vote is going to click with anyone, and I really don't think capybara should go. God, I hope I'm right there. I see on preview that panamajack agrees with storyteller, too. ++ unvote NAF1138 ++++ vote KatiRoo ++Can I just say how agreeing with you makes me feel really, really dirty? ;D OK, so in post 92 she says she's suspicious of people who post light... ...in 103 she is suspicious of aggressive players...those are pretty two mutually exclusive ideas, right? She does address this in 111. ...she has four or five pointless posts (depending on how generous one is in defining pointless - more if you count the Day .5 posts)...I only point this out because this was her deciding reason for voting for Mad. Speaking of Day .5, her first official act was to cast a vote, for DiggitCamera, although she never mentions it again, and abandons that strategy, simply saying in post 103 that it probably isn't worthwhile. It's not as rock-solid as I would want, but it's enough to make me all iggy. Plus, darn you Idle Thoughts, for being reasonable like that.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
May 24, 2007 23:32:49 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on May 24, 2007 23:32:49 GMT -5
Good points, Storyteller. And, as you point out, I'm VERY suspicious of the individuals voting for Autolycus at this point, especially Kyrie. I'm tempted to put my vote there. As for KatiRoo, you also make an interesting case, except it just looks... sloppy... for scum to be so wanton. With foreknowledge that she's new, I'm more inclined to blame that, but I will keep my eye on her.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 23:36:36 GMT -5
Post by Kyrie Eleison on May 24, 2007 23:36:36 GMT -5
Especially Kyrie, who went from "I don't like the Autolycus lynch at all" to "yeah, OK, I'm on board" pretty darn quickly. I knew I'd take flak for that, and it's fair to give me some, too. Before Autolycus posted, we had nothing to go on regarding him. I had little reason to believe that he was deliberately not posting, and as you (and I, and Blaster Master, and more) point out, lynching him yields the town little information for tomorrow. But then he posted. He posted within five minutes of the last outstanding vote for him being removed. I cannot believe that is coincidental, and I do not for one second buy his "yawn, I'm just becoming aware of this, I'll read the thread later tonight" act. I believe that he was avidly following the thread the entire time, and that his posturing is deliberately misleading. Lynch all liars. If Auto hadn't posted, I'd have no reason to believe that he was any more likely to be a pirate than anyone else, but with that one post, his likelihood of scumminess skyrocketed high enough that I'm willing to forgo the information that might be provided by lynching a more involved player, and essentially re-do day one.
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Day One
May 24, 2007 23:41:43 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 24, 2007 23:41:43 GMT -5
have you even read the thread? Well, Mad, I did review your posts – all (at that time) 26 of them. These were my observations - Post #101 – vote Auntbeast with no discussion up to that point Post #166 – next substantive post – FOS capybara – for no good reason, says she’s making a lot of noise, just “trying to muddy the waters”. At that point, I thought capy’s musings were reasonable. Post #212 – next substantive post – accuses Aunty with two “scumtells” – lurking, and self-deprecation. I’d give her the benefit of the doubt on both of these issues. And that’s about it for substantive posts. Everything else are really side comments on subbing (and when), comments on Autolycus (some justified), conversational asides to players, etc. I’m keeping my vote for you Substantive....I do not think that word means what you think it means. I have made a flavor post here and there, but most of my posts have substance that relate directly to the matters at hand. Your assessment is wrong and misleading.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
May 25, 2007 0:02:55 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on May 25, 2007 0:02:55 GMT -5
If Auto hadn't posted, I'd have no reason to believe that he was any more likely to be a pirate than anyone else, but with that one post, his likelihood of scumminess skyrocketed high enough that I'm willing to forgo the information that might be provided by lynching a more involved player, and essentially re-do day one. I get your point now, but I still disagree. He had a similar attention grabbing style in M2 as the timing of that post might imply. However, it is entirely possible that he's been busy and, regardless of seemingly convenient timing or not, information is our most valuable asset. Especially if he turns up town, then it's entirely possible that we could go into tomorrow down three townies, with no more information than we have today. Much like with M2, if he is a pirate, he's not helping their cause either, and thus, if he does stick around, I'd rather save a lynch like that for a time when we don't have any leads or he actually does something to incriminate himself or something happens that exonerates him. Thus, I'd say mark a huge demerit next to him and make him (or his sub) answer to it, but if you're equally suspicious, or nearly so, of someone else, I think the potential gain in information outweighs the slightly higher suspicion you may feel for him, especially when compensated by his unorthodox style.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 0:08:48 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 25, 2007 0:08:48 GMT -5
As for KatiRoo, you also make an interesting case, except it just looks... sloppy... for scum to be so wanton. With foreknowledge that she's new, I'm more inclined to blame that, but I will keep my eye on her. There have been a few instances in this game so far of someone making a supposed mistake and being dismissed because they are new.I don't think they should be treated like a puppy peeing on the floor.If it's a mistake,it's a mistake.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 0:20:09 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on May 25, 2007 0:20:09 GMT -5
Upon review, KatiRoo sure has come flying out of left field. I saw that she had started posting again around the time of my spam-posting seizure, but I'd only skimmed her posts until now. Though she has agreed with me on a point or two here and there, she's also managed to contradict herself enough to negate that, which does not sit well with me at all. Vote KatiRoo.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
May 25, 2007 0:25:04 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on May 25, 2007 0:25:04 GMT -5
As for KatiRoo, you also make an interesting case, except it just looks... sloppy... for scum to be so wanton. With foreknowledge that she's new, I'm more inclined to blame that, but I will keep my eye on her. There have been a few instances in this game so far of someone making a supposed mistake and being dismissed because they are new.I don't think they should be treated like a puppy peeing on the floor.If it's a mistake,it's a mistake. But a mistake in and of itself is not a scum tell. Look back to day two in M2; everyone (or at least almost everyone) involved in that debacle was a pro-town, novice player, and we all pretty made the mistake of "we disagree in strategy, therefore, we're not on the same side". Granted, this case is more subtle, but it still warrants some consideration. If it didn't look like it could simply be a novice mistake or if she were not new, I would definitely look at it with a great deal of suspicion. For now, I'm simply not sold it's more than that; hence, I'd like a little more time to think about it and see how she reacts to the votes. I think her reaction to the votes will be more telling than her behavior thus far.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 0:56:31 GMT -5
Post by Lakai on May 25, 2007 0:56:31 GMT -5
Why not inexperienced town? Unvote Kyrie Eleison for now. Because her posts don't read as crew to me. Her posts seem more like an inexperienced player with a scum role. Color removed. I was hoping you would elaborate. I'm going to vote hockeymonkey. I think she might be using MTS reasoning to vote for a crew mate with out arousing too much suspicion. Either that or she is too lazy to write out her suspicions. I'm hoping it is the former. I see everyone still likes listening to Storyteller.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 0:59:53 GMT -5
Post by autolycus on May 25, 2007 0:59:53 GMT -5
No I'm not lurking. Yes I've been busy entertaining my foreign girlfriend. I'll reconsider if I have the resources to play effectively and make a swap if need be.
To people wanting to lynch me already, umm... yar?
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Day One
May 25, 2007 1:00:59 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 25, 2007 1:00:59 GMT -5
For those criticizing Autolycus, given that I presume he is a young man with some recently found nookie, I can see him not being here much.
Capybara: I have a different read on you, maybe I'm gullible, maybe I'm a sucker, but I feel for ya. I have to say, this being my first time playing, getting the fingers pointed at you right off the bat has to be pretty weird feeling, no matter what side you are on. If you are a pirate, ya got me fooled.
All the suspicion about every little thing definitely gets some getting used to. Taking notes? Egads. I have to say, this isn't what I was expecting and I suppose I need to pay a bit more attention to things I probably would have just scrolled right over. I think I'll start over from page one with what I've learned so far and start jotting down things. I'm sure I'll be asleep when the final vote time comes, so I'll have to be a bit better prepared for next time.
That being said, I have no interest in changing my vote, especially since the person I voted for (PigButt) isn't in danger of getting offed.
And on a pure vanity statement: Why do I gotta be on the top of the form? I'm gonna change my name to Zauntbeast. ;P
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Day One
May 25, 2007 1:08:26 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 25, 2007 1:08:26 GMT -5
I just noticed that my silly revenge vote of Mad The Swine didn't register, evidently because i voted for Mad The Cow....Go figure, a beast can't distinguish between beasts. So, without further ado... +++Mad The Swine*+++*remember, I'm only keeping it because I have no real suspicions and you aren't in any danger. *smooch*
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day One
May 25, 2007 1:29:28 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 25, 2007 1:29:28 GMT -5
I hate i time. Updated unofficial vote count. I'm pretty sure that NAF's count that mhaye based his count on had an erroneous vote for Idle Thoughts in it, and I missed the KatiRoo's most recent vote in mine. I think mhaye also missed a vote for capybara, and that accounts for all of the discrepancies. I agree, after review, that your table is probably more accurate. Ironically, the odds are that the person who's vote for Capybara I missed was in fact mine. The vote list with 4 hours 40 minutes to go is Autolycus 4 capybara 4 KatiRoo 4 Idle Thoughts 2 ArizonaTeach 1 Auntbeast 1 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 1 FCOD 1 HockeyMonkey 1 Kyrie Eleison 1 MadTheSwine 1 Storyteller0910 1 Those votes for KatiRoo have come out of the woodwork very suddenly, haven't they? I'm not sure we can draw conclusions just on that though, as the result is to put a third person into an already existing two-way tie.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 2:48:32 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on May 25, 2007 2:48:32 GMT -5
Just over three hours to go. Autolycus did give us advance warning that his attention span would be limited until the 30th, and strictly between the 25 of us, I don't believe he's a cunning enough player to be doing this for any subtle and nefarious reasons. It'll only be lasting into the second Day at this rate, and then only if the pirates and Dick (if Dick is in) leave him alone. I'll take a harder line if he hasn't shaped up by this time next week.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 3:26:47 GMT -5
Post by zuma on May 25, 2007 3:26:47 GMT -5
ArizonaTeach-
I was sloppy in my note-taking on my read last night. The comments about the agressive players were KatieRoo, not you.
unvote: ArizonaTeach
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Day One
May 25, 2007 3:35:00 GMT -5
Post by Kyrie Eleison on May 25, 2007 3:35:00 GMT -5
Just over three hours to go. Autolycus did give us advance warning that his attention span would be limited until the 30th, and strictly between the 25 of us, I don't believe he's a cunning enough player to be doing this for any subtle and nefarious reasons. Well, nuts. That just can't be ignored. Unvote Autolycus. OMFGUS Vote Lakai.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 3:58:06 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 25, 2007 3:58:06 GMT -5
Just over three hours to go. Autolycus did give us advance warning that his attention span would be limited until the 30th, and strictly between the 25 of us, I don't believe he's a cunning enough player to be doing this for any subtle and nefarious reasons. Well, nuts. That just can't be ignored. Unvote Autolycus. OMFGUS Vote Lakai. I can't ignore it either, seems like an odd thing for mal to say but certainly sounds like auto is pro-town. unvote Autolycus
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Day One
May 25, 2007 4:16:15 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on May 25, 2007 4:16:15 GMT -5
I can't ignore it either, seems like an odd thing for mal to say but certainly sounds like auto is pro-town. unvote AutolycusDon't metagame. None of my ex cathedra pronouncements should be taken as conveying anything one way or the other about any player's scumminess. Not even this one.
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Day One
May 25, 2007 4:20:09 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 25, 2007 4:20:09 GMT -5
Looks like I may have the deciding vote here.I really don't want this to go to a coin flip so I am gonna vote capybara
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