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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 21:49:15 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 5, 2009 21:49:15 GMT -5
I want to find a way to trust Boozy simply because it's a little outside of normal and therefore fun and unexpected.
But Puppetmaster is a Cabal power, not a Cabal-and-Town power. Control of it rests in the hands of someone who only wins if we lose.
What could we say if this were reality? We might say "Give us a hostage." We pledge they are safe from us if you do what you say and they die if you don't--thereby giving a true two in the bush instead of merely a shadow in a dessicated Charlie Brown tree.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 21:58:59 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 5, 2009 21:58:59 GMT -5
and we have to believe you when you say you couldn't use it against a witch. There are ways of telling weather she is a witch. Tell me, what do you do witches? Burn them! And what do you burn, apart from witches? More Witches!!! I will leave it up to someone else to fill in the rest.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 22:13:53 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 5, 2009 22:13:53 GMT -5
You might want to put on helmet, so it helps when I blow your mind.
What if Boozy is lying?
So. If he is lying, but he actually does have a puppeteer type power? [Sounds like a cool power to me.]
What are the odds that he Puppeteers a Puppeteer?
I mean, what if he already used his power, and happened to hit the Cabal Puppeteer? Powers aren't limited to a certain alignment, right?
Then again, would he have been given an extra, clean. alias from the very beginning? He might not even had to have gotten lucky.
I mean, if he is going to suggest that he can copy someone one [or at least, redirect] he could already have a town, or town friendly role.
He could then use that role NOW when he just claimed just a bit upthread.
I'm still worried about the Cabal in general. If they hype from past conspiracy games is to be believed, I wouldn't be surprised if the cabal are holding something back.
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 22:20:02 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 5, 2009 22:20:02 GMT -5
Boozy, would you vote someone if they anticipated a question about their avatar, and answered it? I voted for someone because I didn't like the letter their name started with. (She was scum) I voted for someone because I didn't like her non-fluffy name (She was town.) I voted for someone, repeatedly, just because I enjoyed unnerving her (She, too was town). And I voted for someone just because I couldn't remember if I'd ever voted for him before. (He was scum) I'm not really the person to ask about crappy reasons for voting for someone. Of course I'd vote for you because you went off on a tangent about your avatar. I might also vote for you because I found your avatar distracting (Who was it who had the dancing blue boy avatar on here for the longest time? ...I cheered when he got lynched)
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 22:21:37 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 5, 2009 22:21:37 GMT -5
You might want to put on helmet, so it helps when I blow your mind. What if Boozy is lying?
So. If he is lying, but he actually does have a puppeteer type power? [Sounds like a cool power to me.]
What are the odds that he Puppeteers a Puppeteer?
I mean, what if he already used his power, and happened to hit the Cabal Puppeteer? Powers aren't limited to a certain alignment, right?
Then again, would he have been given an extra, clean. alias from the very beginning? He might not even had to have gotten lucky.
I mean, if he is going to suggest that he can copy someone one [or at least, redirect] he could already have a town, or town friendly role.
He could then use that role NOW when he just claimed just a bit upthread.
I'm still worried about the Cabal in general. If they hype from past conspiracy games is to be believed, I wouldn't be surprised if the cabal are holding something back. Huh? Day powers aren't resolved until Dusk, and no powers went off Night Zero. If you can trust me on anything, it's that I haven't used any sort of powers yet. Then again, you can trust me on everything, because I'm an honest Squid.
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 22:24:15 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 5, 2009 22:24:15 GMT -5
I want to find a way to trust Boozy simply because it's a little outside of normal and therefore fun and unexpected. [snip] What could we say if this were reality? We might say "Give us a hostage." We pledge they are safe from us if you do what you say and they die if you don't--thereby giving a true two in the bush instead of merely a shadow in a dessicated Charlie Brown tree. Also, if you trust me, you get to keep around an entertaining bartender for the Nights. I had a bunch of cool recipes in the vein of the ones I made up for Conspiracy One that I've been saving for this game. Give you a hostage? Well, I'll see if the rest of the Cabal is up for it. I think they would be, but I don't know if I could give you the name until I was sure that I was actually going to be unvoted... there's a lot of Wolves and Undead out there who would love to see me die, and not take their kill-choices away from them.
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 22:40:08 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 5, 2009 22:40:08 GMT -5
Come on, there are plenty more fish in the sea, and unless it came down to me controlling a killing character with a Witch being outted, I promise to be very, very good! Would it help if I said please? I may not Puppet a Witch, nor will the action work if redirected onto a Witch. Huh. Anyway, after thinking about the Puppetmaster power, I'm not sure that any one-off power, even a really shiny one, can do much. I don't know how the numbers likely break down between factions, but it doesn't seem that Cabal has been gifted with all that much extra info to make choosing targets easy. Cabal-as-Cabal just has to hit not-Cabal. Cabal-as-Friend-to-Beasts-and Townies-and-gentle-woodland-creatures has to hit not-Cabal and not-Town and not-Witch and not-targeting-Witch and not-Vanilla-anything and preferably not-something-boring-because-a-boring-Cabal-is-just-a-men's-club.
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Death By Irony
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 23:11:40 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 5, 2009 23:11:40 GMT -5
Meeko, there's a guaranteed way of finding out Boozahol Squid's alignment: hang him by the neck until dead. (Of course, given that this is a Conspiracy game...I'm gonna ask Pleo about that.)
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 23:13:44 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 5, 2009 23:13:44 GMT -5
Come on, there are plenty more fish in the sea, and unless it came down to me controlling a killing character with a Witch being outted, I promise to be very, very good! Would it help if I said please? I may not Puppet a Witch, nor will the action work if redirected onto a Witch. Huh. Anyway, after thinking about the Puppetmaster power, I'm not sure that any one-off power, even a really shiny one, can do much. I don't know how the numbers likely break down between factions, but it doesn't seem that Cabal has been gifted with all that much extra info to make choosing targets easy. Cabal-as-Cabal just has to hit not-Cabal. Cabal-as-Friend-to-Beasts-and Townies-and-gentle-woodland-creatures has to hit not-Cabal and not-Town and not-Witch and not-targeting-Witch and not-Vanilla-anything and preferably not-something-boring-because-a-boring-Cabal-is-just-a-men's-club. Eh, I wrote without thinking. As you note, I actually can't do anything with my power that will directly help my side. I certainly don't want to kill off any Townies other than Witches, because that delays my side's wincon. The Cabal is, really, harmless to Town. And, also, there may be members of the Cabal who would be offended by your assumption that it's a mens' club. We're equal opportunity scum.
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 23:14:42 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 5, 2009 23:14:42 GMT -5
Meeko, there's a guaranteed way of finding out Boozahol Squid's alignment: hang him by the neck until dead And here I was thinking we were friends, dot.
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Day One
Sept 5, 2009 23:16:35 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 5, 2009 23:16:35 GMT -5
And, also, there may be members of the Cabal who would be offended by your assumption that it's a mens' club. We're equal opportunity scum. I was picturing you all sitting in leather chairs, asleep, with newspapers on your heads. It's a good look for you!
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 0:04:52 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Sept 6, 2009 0:04:52 GMT -5
Well that reveal settles it.
I don't see that ability being terribly helpful to town.
If it was something I found useful that would be different, but that sounds somewhere between a net balance and dangerous. There's simply too much opportunity for misdirection and manipulation in it.
Vote Boozahol
Due to the nature of voting in this game I won't remove a vote unless I have a reason to, and I don't think voting for someone else is a good reason.
If you're not ok with that, I'm wondering why you don't want your voting record to be transparent.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 1:12:01 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 6, 2009 1:12:01 GMT -5
I find it funny, sometimes, how analytical we all are in these games. Not that that's a bad thing, but it's a vast contrast over what happens at mafiascum.net where people just vote for you because you forgot a period...or because your name sounds weird. Bringing this up because of Boozahol's point...sometimes I don't wonder if games would be better or go easier if the first Day or so would just go like that, namely by throwing out random votes just based on things like "your avatar is that of the devil".
About his claim and role: What it comes down to is that somewhere along the line, no matter how much he promises or claims to help Town, there will be deception. It will happen eventually because his is a team that wants to win as much as any faction in this game. It's just inevidible. Eventually there will come a time when they'll want to branch out out their own and make their move and I doubt it will happen on the spur of the moment. More than likely it will be set up slowly, starting with little lies here and there..half truths, minor fibs, and then branching out to telling people things that aren't really the case. I think it's, overall, better to lynch him now and get him out of the way. If everyone else agrees that the Cabal really does want to kill off the other factions (other than Town) and he and (so he says) the other Cabalists feel the same, then they can do it just as well with the remainder of them.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 4:55:43 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 6, 2009 4:55:43 GMT -5
I am the Cabalist Puppetmaster. While I'm alive, the Cabal finds out whether or not our block worked (that is, if our target attempted a night action and was not a Witch or a player using their secret power). Once per game, I can exercise my Puppeteer power, which both gives me alignment and role information on the player, and allows me to redirect any actions said player attempts to perform. I may not Puppet a Witch, nor will the action work if redirected onto a Witch. Both of the other Cabalists and I have gone over this extensively, and come to the decision that it is very handy against Vamps and Wolves, and whatever usage it might have against the town is kind of null, because we need a big, beefy town (sans it Witches, of course) to protect ourselves from the other factions. You guys can hash it out if I'm worth saving, but it's a very powerful role, and one that I believe Pleo put in to give the Cabalists more of a chance than they've had in the last two games. Ok, a few things on this. First - "Both of the other cabalists" implies that there are three of you to begin with. I'm sure we will see in due course. Seems low for this number in the game, unless you have more up your sleeves. Second - Your existence allows you to know if your Night roleblock succeeded. Could be useful for the town, but also useful against the town as well. Third - Your power can be very useful, not only in finding out about a role but has the possible effect of also detecting a Witch if they exist, and finding out about it from the lack of effect. This is definitely anti-everyone except for the Cabal. Fourth - No reprieve from me. Fifth - Can I pull the lynch handle. ;D
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 5:50:55 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Sept 6, 2009 5:50:55 GMT -5
Come on, there are plenty more fish in the sea, and unless it came down to me controlling a killing character with a Witch being outted, I promise to be very, very good! Would it help if I said please? Let me think about it....No. You are a threat to the town, your secret power makes you even more of a threat.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 7:36:12 GMT -5
Post by bufftabby on Sept 6, 2009 7:36:12 GMT -5
Meeko, there's a guaranteed way of finding out Boozahol Squid's alignment: hang him by the neck until dead. (Of course, given that this is a Conspiracy game...I'm gonna ask Pleo about that.) Well, it's gonna be a hot minute: Maybe if we stretch his neck extra hard, we'll get our info faster.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 8:53:35 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 6, 2009 8:53:35 GMT -5
I feel much better about kill Boozy now that he's fully claimed. There is no way I'm OK with the Cabal controlling such a power. We have no guarantee that they'll use the power in a pro-town way. At all.
--FCOD
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 9:26:50 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 6, 2009 9:26:50 GMT -5
Does anyone else besides CIAS and I think that Cabals have something else to hide / up their sleeve? Also, are we certain that there are three? I'm just thinking that at this point, Boozy will say next to anything.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 10:06:02 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 6, 2009 10:06:02 GMT -5
I'm just thinking that at this point, Boozy will say next to anything. I will, I will! Just let me live, and I'll tell you guys whatever you want. Puppetmaster wasn't good enough for you? I can come up with another one, that sounds even better. Give me a few hours, and I'll be back with an even better one.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 10:15:50 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 6, 2009 10:15:50 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;"> <font style="font-size: 12px;">
And, of course, this all assumes you're being honest about your power. If your power had more downside to Town, I'm sure you'd keep that secret. And, it really sounds like you've done that by saying your power is useless against witches. Well, the Wolves have a killing power, just like the vamps. I don't know exactly what would come of me controlling the Omega Wolf's power and redirecting it to another player, although I imagine it'd just screw with the Witches' results. Yes, if I found myself controlling a defensive power, I'd use it to help my bretheren, and not the town. But other than that, my goals will be much the same as the towns: killing the undead and the wolves, and stopping zombies from being raised.and we have to believe you when you say you couldn't use it against a witch. If you could, you'd lie to us and tell us that you can't. So we really can't take you at your word for that Agreed. There's no telling if you're lying or not about your inability to target Witches. Since you admitted to using our defensive powers on yourself, I elect not to trust your word on your inability to target Witches, thus another harmful outcome to you having control of a kill.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 10:20:52 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 6, 2009 10:20:52 GMT -5
I want to find a way to trust Boozy simply because it's a little outside of normal and therefore fun and unexpected. [snip] What could we say if this were reality? We might say "Give us a hostage." We pledge they are safe from us if you do what you say and they die if you don't--thereby giving a true two in the bush instead of merely a shadow in a dessicated Charlie Brown tree. Also, if you trust me, you get to keep around an entertaining bartender for the Nights. I had a bunch of cool recipes in the vein of the ones I made up for Conspiracy One that I've been saving for this game. Give you a hostage? Well, I'll see if the rest of the Cabal is up for it. I think they would be, but I don't know if I could give you the name until I was sure that I was actually going to be unvoted... there's a lot of Wolves and Undead out there who would love to see me die, and not take their kill-choices away from them. As for the bartender comment, if you die toDay, maybe you'll come back as a Zombie and make us drinks. Please? Just no brains...
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 10:21:25 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 6, 2009 10:21:25 GMT -5
I will, I will! Just let me live, and I'll tell you guys whatever you want. Puppetmaster wasn't good enough for you? I can come up with another one, that sounds even better. Give me a few hours, and I'll be back with an even better one. Don't you dare come back and say you blow someone up on lynch. Make up your own roleclaim. ;D
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 10:26:52 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 6, 2009 10:26:52 GMT -5
I feel much better about kill Boozy now that he's fully claimed. There is no way I'm OK with the Cabal controlling such a power. We have no guarantee that they'll use the power in a pro-town way. At all. --FCOD I just had the thought that there's also no way we'll know if he even used his power toNight or not. Always the chance he saves it, waits for a claim, then steals their power in a couple Days.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 10:27:37 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 6, 2009 10:27:37 GMT -5
Ya know, assuming he would've survived toNight if we let him live toDay.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 15:29:16 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 6, 2009 15:29:16 GMT -5
Don't you dare come back and say you blow someone up on lynch. Make up your own roleclaim. ;D Hey, if he is a bomb, lets make sure we move all the pots and pans out of the town.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 15:56:11 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 6, 2009 15:56:11 GMT -5
I'm confused as to why you think I was baiting you in the first place. I have previously said (although I know you think my past statements are irrelevant) that I don't mind a bit o' fluff. I was just asking you a question, and here you are biting my head off. I know you keep getting attacked for no good reason, but you seem really, really touchy. I obviously have no problem with a bit of OOG. I would like to think that most people are that way. However, this is the fourth game [easy math on my part, as I have only played in 4 games] where something happens, and I go off. I am sick and tired of other people telling me what I can and can not do, and that their way is soooo much better than mine. Especially when they are 100% wrong. So, the attack is not on you, directly pede. Just, you happened to be the next person to ask me an OOG, after I had people vote me for it. I just don't get it. Is there some magic amount of OOG that I surpass? Who has the right to regulate that amount? And to everyone else: But, again, I get a first day bandwagon on me a lot, and I just thought that, you know, it would be different. But no, I guess we all know how meeko plays, and apparently, it is set in stone so much, that it can not be changed. [Incredible ideas, Humorous comments, and well thought out WOWs on protstitues [heh] be damned.] I am not lying here. I do not comprehend why everyone attacks me, and why most people fail to understand me. There is nothing I can do different to my play style, this is what it is, and at the end of the day, I can only ask for everyone else to level up. Because frankly, that is the only way I will appear better to you all, if you bridge the gap to me, and not the other way around. Egotistical? Perhaps . But then again, I have carried the brand of Peeker-esque even before I came to Mafia. Either you know what you are getting with me, or you don't. And as you all more or less call me a Peeker, I would like to think you can understand me to some degree. What Hypocrites. Sorry for getting you in there Peeker, but, frankly, your name was dropped in a few too many Haggle games, and well, I am over here now because of it. You are simply the best of fit towards me (apparently) and for convenience, I am going to you to simply make my point here. Can we please change the title of this thread to: Mafia: Conspiracy featuring Meeko
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 16:06:57 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 6, 2009 16:06:57 GMT -5
Did you seriously just smudge everyone who's multiple voting? That's ridiculous. Now, I think *too many* multiple votes could be a cause for concern, but your blanket statement is smudgy as a mug, and inaccurate IMO. In that spirit: Unvote: Ed Unvote: Meeko Vote: PeekerI think multiple voting actually leaves more of a vote record, what with, ya know, more votes and all. I disagree that they're cheapened. It gives us more to hold non-Town accountable for as we get more information. I don't understand why Town would be opposed to leaving all that data behind. I don't think opposing multiple votes is necessarily scummy, but I think it's an interesting data point in the future, albeit pretty well meaningless at this point. <snipped> well first, i got done a lot quicker than i thought, so hopefully no more excitement for a while. buff here's the deal. it was not intended to be a smudge, just a statement of opinion (hence the "to me" caveat). here is what i consider to be a given in my universe. scum do not like to be held accountable. what are ways in this game that we can hold people accountable. first, through postions and posts that they make and second through how and whom they vote for. how could one achieve the least amount of accountability in their votes? vote for everyone (not that anyone is doing that). so i make an assumption that would not be copacetic to you. how about everyone but one person. how 'bout two. at what magic number does the number of votes cease to have any accountability and have some meaning. you even admit that "too many" votes would be a cause for concern. where is your personal threshhold, then? two, four, seven, twelve? i believe that this number is kind of like defining a lurker. it will probably differ from person to person. what may be lurking to me could very well be prodigous to someone else. my porridge may be too hot or cold for you and just right for me. so therefore, i absolutely disagree with you regarding multiple votes. now does that mean you are scum or make you town? no, because it is merely an opinion. one that has a very subjective criteria. much like my subjective number being one vote. but also hear this, i would and never will be coming out and voting for someone because they have more than one vote out. for me, and me alone, it is in my personal scorecard. it is just one more subjective data point to me. so if you are voting for me because you think i smudged you and others and therefore deserving a vote i believe you misunderstood (or i communicated poorly) the intent of my post. if you are voting for me because we have a difference in opinion regarding a subjective issue, that is certainly your perogative.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 16:07:14 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 6, 2009 16:07:14 GMT -5
The preceding was a joke
sort of
I don't trust boozy when he says 'both of the other cabalists' he may have slipped once, but I don't think he'd slip twice. What it tells us though, is nothing at all. He could be right, but I'd wager there's 4-5 cabalists. It seems to make balancing sense.
It is in the back of my ind though that perhaps this was all intentional. Perhaps the Cabal have some lynch stopping power that can do bad things to us....I dunno. Anything is possible, I guess.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 16:59:37 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 6, 2009 16:59:37 GMT -5
Egotistical? Perhaps . But then again, I have carried the brand of Peeker-esque even before I came to Mafia. Either you know what you are getting with me, or you don't. And as you all more or less call me a Peeker, I would like to think you can understand me to some degree. What Hypocrites. Sorry for getting you in there Peeker, but, frankly, your name was dropped in a few too many Haggle games, and well, I am over here now because of it. You are simply the best of fit towards me (apparently) and for convenience, I am going to you to simply make my point here. <snipped> no problem. and i think this only the second game i have been in with you so perhaps my opinions are colored by others' observations. i know for a fact that the universe does not revolve around you. and do you know why i am so positive of that fact? because it revolves around me.
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Day One
Sept 6, 2009 17:21:34 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 6, 2009 17:21:34 GMT -5
<snipped> you better be glad i already have a vote down.
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