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Post by storyteller0910 on May 12, 2011 17:58:13 GMT -5
I think Pinkies is not going to claim. I am happy with my vote. It was incredibly frustrating during Scooby Doo having to pretend to think this kind of thing was no big deal, by the way, and immensely freeing not to have to do so here.
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Post by septimus on May 12, 2011 18:28:50 GMT -5
Perhaps I just missed it, but I didn't see you list any reasons for being suspicious of Pinkies other than "he's acting anti-Town", which is what set me off. Let's see: With no post from Pinkies, and no explanation for his reluctance to type a straightforward "I am" ... Vote: Captain Pinkies ... Is there any pro-Town reason not to ever consider changing your vote? Is there any reason, pro-Town or otherwise, to announce that fact? I suspect Captain Pinkies is 3rd P rather than Scum, but unless he makes a full confession and agrees to cooperate, as fluiddruid has, I think he needs to be Lynched. In the absence of any obvious Scum, we may as well Lynch him toDay. I certainly think Pinkies should do a complete reveal now if he doesn't want to be Lynched. He says his vote is being controlled. I don't see why it is "clear." Moreover,I don't see why Lynching a controlled player would necessarily help Scum. Perhaps Scum is the faction controlling him. This may not seem to be a comprehensive "list", but if you examine Pinkies' posts, I'm not sure you'll find anything at all that isn't anti-Town. If anti-Town behavior is off-limits for suspicion, then we're left with zero posts by Pinkies other than his "Town" and, later "I am Town." Oh ... the recipes. No, I didn't scrutinize them for scumminess. If voting a player in an attempt to force him to stop being anti-Town is voting for anti-Town behavior, then some (not all) of my earlier posted suspicions about Pinkies have violated your injunction. But why didn't you object then? So now we've got Rysto for Lurking and skimming. I'll consider voting to Lynch you but, as I say, I'm happy with the vote on Captain Pinkies for now. ;D
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Post by guiri on May 12, 2011 19:27:47 GMT -5
Thoughts:
Colby- He didn't make a statement of alignment even though he posted after 13 others had and simply commented on how quiet the game was - 7 hours later he joined the claim. When questioned about the delay, he said: "I was debating about whether I should jump on the bandwagon or not. It seemed like it was a ploy to confuse the Lie Detector about who to test to see who was telling the truth" - only non-Town would have reason to attempt to confuse the lie detector, what did he have to debate? - voting CIAS D1 to "get some scum out of hiding" when CIAS had instigated the "convert the lie detector into a full-blown alignment cop" - role fishing from Moley, although somewhat blatantly - reacting to the no kills: "Now, the real question is why no night kill? First time that's ever happened to me" - first time what's happened to you? - the idea that Captain must be Town as his vote is being controlled - the idea that we have a silencer - the idea that scum didn't get a chance to kill last Night - the self-deprecating comments
I was pinged by his initial delay in stating his alignment and his later explanation makes little sense however the blatant role-fishing and the quantity of groundless assumptions give me doubt it's a scum ploy
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Post by guiri on May 12, 2011 19:30:08 GMT -5
Archangel - The "I'm also Town" statement and her clarification that she suspected all the people who'd made the statement early were Town - The assumption that scum can talk during the Day may not be unreasonable but, even after it was pointed out that it cannot be assumed, she continued in her conviction that Ace could not be scum as she'd have been advised by her scum-buddies - Her unvote of Story stating that his attempt to catch her in a scum-slip was pro-town and then modifying her reasoning to include his questioning which seemed genuine and finally saying she unvoted because he backed off - I disagree that Fluid was pushing against the case on Ace but then voted anyway, especially since her vote came before the comments in question - "(I believed Ace was town, you successfully convinced me she might be third party, and I voted her because lynching a third party on Day One is preferable to lynching town.)" - who are you referring to here? - Her insistence that Ace was either Town or 3rd party and keeping her vote there - an eagerness to join a bandwagon with a vote that had a high probability of failure
She does seem eager to put people into the Townie column: early claimers, Story, Moley... even Ace for a while. And she seems more concerned about lynching 3rd parties than scum. I initially thought she'd changed her reason for the flip-flop on Story but re-reading, it seems she's clarifying the same thing @ Archangel, did you request a sub? I hope you're feeling better
Fluid I too suspect she's not being completely honest with her claim or wincon but agree that we don't need to lynch her toDay (and probably don't want to).
Rysto - D1 promise of substantive comments, not kept - accuses Moley of PIS on scum Day-talk ability, votes him - 2 comments on previous games A broken promise, PIS accusation and post padding - some pings here.
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Post by guiri on May 12, 2011 19:34:16 GMT -5
Pinkies I can't see any Town motivation for how he plays in general and this game is no different. How hard was it to confirm receipt of your role PM? How hard was it to add "I'M" to your "TOWN" post? How hard was it to explain your vote restriction when first asked? And still no claim?
"I'm planning on participating" "I'm ready to RUMMBBLE"
Well that didn't happen either.
Of the 3 vote leaders, I think Story makes a good argument and I agree Pinkies is the best candidate:
Vote Pinkies
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 12, 2011 20:54:20 GMT -5
I would agree with this if it weren't Pinkies. I can't remember him ever claiming successfully as Scum. He truly botched his claim in Scooby Doo. He might be a little gunshy to claim at this point. In fact, in that game, he was hesitant before he botched it and took much the same approach as he neared the gallows. this is i feel makes sense. it's also IMO a better reason than lynching the lurker or targeting the anti-Town behavior (at least in Cap's case). Cap's claim in Scooby Doo was painful to watch. i'm torn whether to vote for Cap or not. first, he's already lynch leader by a mile. second, i'm still suspicious of Fluid's claim. granted that her wincon may not be in play in Day 2, i'm still bothered by her claim. any reasonable chance that Scum would all claim early to try to avoid suspicion? roles are twisted in this game so it seems possible. Colby, i don't think people are after you just because you got killed early in your last two games. ;D i hope Paranoia is okay. i was wondering who needed subbing out when i saw SisC's post on the boards.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on May 12, 2011 21:26:45 GMT -5
I would agree with this if it weren't Pinkies. I can't remember him ever claiming successfully as Scum. He truly botched his claim in Scooby Doo. Alien Taste. He was, iirc, either the head Templar or the second in command. He claimed with a somewhat-modified PM. We should have known it was a lie, because quoting PMs was against the rules, but he didn't get punished - therefore giving away the fact that it had been rewritten or modified. (Lynching him might have cleared up for Town that the Temple were the Mafia in that game.) You make a good point. He was similarly hesitant in claiming in Alien Taste. Captain, to give my answer to the question you asked earlier. How does you claiming in this situation help Town? The Town need information - as much as they can get. A Town player who is about to be lynched can do no better service for his side than to make a full claim, laying out all their actions and reasons. That way, when you are dead, we have everything you knew plus the knowledge that you weren't trying to mislead us. There are some things that you might reasonably leave out in some circumstances, but you should lay out what you know and what you suspect for us (and also make the difference clear.) Your refusal to claim makes it look as if you are not Town. Please claim. Umm I never said that I wouldn't claim or refused t claim. There a couple of people asking me to claim, and I wanted a little dialog on it. I AM VANILLA TOWN -------------------------------- Day Two Requirement « Message sent on May 8, 2011, 5:05pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Vote has been purchased. You must vote for Archangel in your first post of the Day (whether said post includes other information is up to you). Additionally, you may not change your vote once it has been placed. If your first post of the Day does not include this vote, and/or if you attempt to change your vote, you will accrue TWO Final Votes per offense. Back to Top Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Virginia, sometimes you do have to vote to lynch yourself. Yes, I do think that other players should vote for who I think is the scummiest. -- Redskeezix Mod record: Town 1 Scum 2 Third Party 1
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Post by Captain Pinkies on May 12, 2011 21:32:03 GMT -5
ohh the reason I have been off line most of the time I have been moving my wife and kids to a new house.... And the repair lists are growing in length...
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 12, 2011 21:48:45 GMT -5
okay, after trying to work on my analysis.... I gave myself a headache and realized that I couldn't really do it... You've given up after only 30 minutes? @ Honest Moley: I'm a she. Oh GOD, not this again. Dude(tte) - I apologise. Don't take too much offence. I'd got into the habit of checking random people to see if they were male or female. Unfortunately my parole officer made it very clear that I was to stop doing this or risk some real jail time...
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Post by Dirx on May 12, 2011 22:02:46 GMT -5
re: Pinkies's claim: the quoted mod message looks genuine enough. Could be a good fake, sure, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now.
I'd be tempted to vote for fluiddruid right now, as she's openly claimed a politician role, but as I stated back on Day 1, I'm betting good money we have more than role capable of fiddling with votes. I'll have to think on it...
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 12, 2011 22:22:50 GMT -5
it just occurred to me that Cap's vote might have been bought so he would forced to participate. ;D
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Post by septimus on May 12, 2011 22:50:31 GMT -5
Thank you, Captain Pinkies. I will certainly consider unvoting you, but not right now as I have urgent RL issues rushing me at the moment, and because I have no other strong scum candidate. I am not feeling the case against Archangel.
I do hope experienced players can give some insight about vote buying. (I realize it may just be guesswork, but I'm mystified.) Is it probably Scum doing the buying? Do they have a choice of whose vote to control?
There is a plausible explanation for why the vote buyer picked Pinkies; tell me if this makes sense. The penalty (two votes) would have little impact unless the controlled voter was a likely Lynch candidate, as Pinkies is. This would imply that the vote buyer would pick someone under heavy suspicion.
It would be nice to run a simple experiment: I promise to remove my vote from Pinkies if he switches his vote and we can see the 2-vote penalty with our own eyes. Unfortunately, he is so far in the Lynch lead that several others would have to make the same promise before he could try this experiment without sealing his own fate.
If, after all, Pinkies continues to be a certain Lynchee as deadline approaches, I trust he will switch his vote, just so Town can see the penalty and confirm the PM.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on May 13, 2011 0:03:40 GMT -5
Thank you, Captain Pinkies. I will certainly consider unvoting you, but not right now as I have urgent RL issues rushing me at the moment, and because I have no other strong scum candidate. I am not feeling the case against Archangel. I do hope experienced players can give some insight about vote buying. (I realize it may just be guesswork, but I'm mystified.) Is it probably Scum doing the buying? Do they have a choice of whose vote to control? There is a plausible explanation for why the vote buyer picked Pinkies; tell me if this makes sense. The penalty (two votes) would have little impact unless the controlled voter was a likely Lynch candidate, as Pinkies is. This would imply that the vote buyer would pick someone under heavy suspicion. It would be nice to run a simple experiment: I promise to remove my vote from Pinkies if he switches his vote and we can see the 2-vote penalty with our own eyes. Unfortunately, he is so far in the Lynch lead that several others would have to make the same promise before he could try this experiment without sealing his own fate. If, after all, Pinkies continues to be a certain Lynchee as deadline approaches, I trust he will switch his vote, just so Town can see the penalty and confirm the PM. I would willing to do that, but unless a better candidate comes up I am good as anyone else for the lynching. Better me than a power role. After all it my job to die. ANd please inlighten me on proving my claim, all it proves it that I must vote for archangle. It does prove that I am town nor does prove that I am vanilla. anyway need to get 4 wee ones in bed....
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on May 13, 2011 0:04:16 GMT -5
Paranoia has asked to be subbed out. I am seeking a replacement. Because of this, Unvote: Paranoia Doesn't seem fair to vote for a person who subbed out
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Post by Colby11 on May 13, 2011 0:16:31 GMT -5
Thoughts: Colby- He didn't make a statement of alignment even though he posted after 13 others had and simply commented on how quiet the game was - 7 hours later he joined the claim. When questioned about the delay, he said: "I was debating about whether I should jump on the bandwagon or not. It seemed like it was a ploy to confuse the Lie Detector about who to test to see who was telling the truth" - only non-Town would have reason to attempt to confuse the lie detector, what did he have to debate? - voting CIAS D1 to "get some scum out of hiding" when CIAS had instigated the "convert the lie detector into a full-blown alignment cop" - role fishing from Moley, although somewhat blatantly - reacting to the no kills: "Now, the real question is why no night kill? First time that's ever happened to me" - first time what's happened to you? - the idea that Captain must be Town as his vote is being controlled - the idea that we have a silencer - the idea that scum didn't get a chance to kill last Night - the self-deprecating comments I was pinged by his initial delay in stating his alignment and his later explanation makes little sense however the blatant role-fishing and the quantity of groundless assumptions give me doubt it's a scum ploy Time to explain my actions As far as the Silencer role, it was present in the last game that I played, and I forgot to check the roles before opening my big fat mouth. As for the claim, I was kinda confused why everyone would claim Town, when it would be obvious that the SCUM would be lying, and therefore pointless. (Besides the Lie Detector role) My vote for CIAS was because I thought that possibly it was a SCUM move to start off with the whole claim (I was unaware that it was a strategy that HAD worked in the past) As far as the "Now, the real question is why no night kill? First time that's ever happened to me" comment, that was in relation to the fact that there was no night kill, which is something that hasn't happened in the 3 games that I've played in so far. As far as the comment against Holey Moley, I was hoping that she would tell us whether she is scum, 3rd party, or someone in Town (maybe she could be the Survivor [and for the record, I checked the role list before posting this idea] ) At the time, Captain's vote being controlled did smell of scum doing, but someone (i forgot who) did mention that a Town Politician would do the same thing, since Captain wasn't active at all in Day 1. I later conceded this point.
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Post by Colby11 on May 13, 2011 0:20:59 GMT -5
okay, after trying to work on my analysis.... I gave myself a headache and realized that I couldn't really do it... So are you just going to vote yourself? If you get in the game you will be more likely to stay in the game. Well, I was thinking about pulling a Calvin, but then I remembered that Calvin almost got lynched from overanalyzing everything....
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Post by Colby11 on May 13, 2011 0:26:31 GMT -5
And apologizes for calling Holey Moley a chick above... That message above threw me off...
Heck, I'm not even sure who half of everyone is in here... Maybe that's why I'm so lost in this game
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Post by CatInASuit on May 13, 2011 3:31:41 GMT -5
I would willing to do that, but unless a better candidate comes up I am good as anyone else for the lynching. Better me than a power role. After all it my job to die. ANd please inlighten me on proving my claim, all it proves it that I must vote for archangle. It does prove that I am town nor does prove that I am vanilla. You know, I hate, hate, hate it when people start saying their role is to die in the game. If you are Town then your job is to lynch scum, not stand there and offer yourself up, which in your case I no longer believe is the case. You have also now tripped my scumdar big time with that statement above. So from promising to contribute more to adding nothing, holding back on a claim and generally not playing the game. Archangel can take a back seat for the mo. unvote Archangel vote Pinkies
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Post by CatInASuit on May 13, 2011 3:45:24 GMT -5
Oh and before I forget, you're quite capable of posting a PM from the Mod with the details and timestamps, but your role claim is "I AM VANILLA TOWN", instead of actually posting the PM with your role in it.
I mean given that the vanilla template has been posted, so everyone knows what it should roughly look like and you post that.
I despair, I really do.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 13, 2011 7:19:21 GMT -5
<snip> As far as the comment against Holey Moley, I was hoping that she would tell us whether she is scum, 3rd party, or someone in Town (maybe she could be the Survivor [and for the record, I checked the role list before posting this idea] ) <snip> You were expecting Moley to tell you he was scum?
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Post by metallicsquink on May 13, 2011 7:21:47 GMT -5
<snip> I AM VANILLA TOWN <snip> A PM would go a long way to giving your claim at least a shred of credibility.
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Post by Rysto on May 13, 2011 7:35:54 GMT -5
I have to dash this off quickly and run, so here goes: story: I see what you're saying, but in this case I don't think that it fits. If that's what Pinkies was after he's gone about it completely backwards. I put this one down to "person acting bizarrely" not "scum trying to escape the noose". I need to look more closely but I think that the timing is all wrong. How many votes did Pinkies have when he started this whole "I have to vote but I'm not going to explain why?" My memory says that he started piling on the votes after he voted, which really doesn't fit with your theory. septimus: Real quickly, what you to look at is motivations, not behaviour. Everybody acts anti-Town at some point in the game -- it's not a reliable tell. What is far more reliable is to look at a person's pattern of behaviour and try to see why they have acted that way. On that note: PinkiesI can't see any Town motivation for how he plays in general and this game is no different. First of all, this is completely backwards. Looking for scum motivation is far more important than finding town motivation. Second of all, as you say Pinkies' play is always bizarre, so this isn't a reliable tell for him at all. I might be fooled into thinking that this is just a vote out of frustration, but the fact that you've invoked motivations tells me that you're trying to look like you're building a case when you're really not, which ping the hell out of me. More of the same. How has Pinkies displayed scum motivation by doing this? I'm really suspicious that while ostensibly building a case against Pinkies, really you've just listed off a series of really frustrating things that Pinkies has done. I think that you're trying to get people annoyed at Pinkies so they'll vote him off. Vote guiri
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 13, 2011 8:22:41 GMT -5
I have to dash this off quickly and run, so here goes: story: I see what you're saying, but in this case I don't think that it fits. If that's what Pinkies was after he's gone about it completely backwards. I put this one down to "person acting bizarrely" not "scum trying to escape the noose". I need to look more closely but I think that the timing is all wrong. How many votes did Pinkies have when he started this whole "I have to vote but I'm not going to explain why?" My memory says that he started piling on the votes after he voted, which really doesn't fit with your theory. Just quickly, as I wanted a break from this application. Captain P placed his vote in post D02.090. At that time he had three votes (Special Ed, Suburban Plankton and Septimus) although we now know that SP's vote didn't count. Apart from Meeko's vote, he didn't really start picking up votes until D02.209, when SP revoted him with one that counted. Back later, after tea probably.
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Post by Archangel on May 13, 2011 8:40:12 GMT -5
Archangel- The "I'm also Town" statement and her clarification that she suspected all the people who'd made the statement early were Town - The assumption that scum can talk during the Day may not be unreasonable but, even after it was pointed out that it cannot be assumed, she continued in her conviction that Ace could not be scum as she'd have been advised by her scum-buddies - Her unvote of Story stating that his attempt to catch her in a scum-slip was pro-town and then modifying her reasoning to include his questioning which seemed genuine and finally saying she unvoted because he backed off - I disagree that Fluid was pushing against the case on Ace but then voted anyway, especially since her vote came before the comments in question - "(I believed Ace was town, you successfully convinced me she might be third party, and I voted her because lynching a third party on Day One is preferable to lynching town.)" - who are you referring to here? - Her insistence that Ace was either Town or 3rd party and keeping her vote there - an eagerness to join a bandwagon with a vote that had a high probability of failure She does seem eager to put people into the Townie column: early claimers, Story, Moley... even Ace for a while. And she seems more concerned about lynching 3rd parties than scum. I initially thought she'd changed her reason for the flip-flop on Story but re-reading, it seems she's clarifying the same thing @ Archangel, did you request a sub? I hope you're feeling better Hi Guiri, The comment you're questioning me about ("you convinced me that") was addressed to Metallic Squink. I'm eager to put people in the "probably town" column because it helps me narrow the pool of those who are likely to be scum. With 17 or so people it's hard to keep track of everyone, so if I can put a couple of people aside for the time being it makes it easier to watch those who haven't given me any signs that they're likely town yet. OOG-- thank you, I'm feeling better and no, I didn't request a sub. Ginger, I'm glad the job is still there, fingers crossed for you. No, no call from Saks but a couple of other job opportunities came up this week.
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Post by Archangel on May 13, 2011 8:55:43 GMT -5
I am still happy with my vote on Archangel. Despite her current medical issues, her response to looking suspicious is that she “always” looks suspicious and to me, that does not excuse scummy behavior. In addition, between her post 145 where she votes for fluiddruid ["Well, thanks for your confession, Fluiddruid. My vote will remain on you, as I've learned from previous games never to trust a PFK. Going back to reread and look for scum too though.], she asks Moley what he thinks of “this” (I’m not sure if she is talking about captain’s vote or the game in general), talks about another game (as it relates to a PFK) and changes her vote to gnarlycharlie to test the voting shenanigans. Her next post (246) is a vote for fluiddruid “for reasons already stated.” That doesn’t look like much scum hunting at all. I've been in a defensive position in this game from the start, mostly due to my playstyle. Not the best circumstances under which to hunt scum. Fluiddruid was the player who looked scummiest to me and so I voted her. Finding out she's a PFK is a good thing, to me, because I believe they hurt town, so she's a decent Day Two lynch. I have suspicions on other players but they are almost entirely for metagame reasons, which is lame. I will reread again and list who I find suspicious and why, but right now I am getting way more "probably town" reads than "probably scum" reads. And, I've seen Pinkies lynched over and over again as town because of his playstyle. Last game I played with him apart from any current games was Scooby Doo. I was convinced he was scum then on Day One, and I was right. I am just not feeling it here.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 13, 2011 9:10:50 GMT -5
I am still happy with my vote on Archangel. Despite her current medical issues, her response to looking suspicious is that she “always” looks suspicious and to me, that does not excuse scummy behavior. In addition, between her post 145 where she votes for fluiddruid ["Well, thanks for your confession, Fluiddruid. My vote will remain on you, as I've learned from previous games never to trust a PFK. Going back to reread and look for scum too though.], she asks Moley what he thinks of “this” (I’m not sure if she is talking about captain’s vote or the game in general), talks about another game (as it relates to a PFK) and changes her vote to gnarlycharlie to test the voting shenanigans. Her next post (246) is a vote for fluiddruid “for reasons already stated.” That doesn’t look like much scum hunting at all. I've been in a defensive position in this game from the start, mostly due to my playstyle. Not the best circumstances under which to hunt scum. Fluiddruid was the player who looked scummiest to me and so I voted her. Finding out she's a PFK is a good thing, to me, because I believe they hurt town, so she's a decent Day Two lynch. I have suspicions on other players but they are almost entirely for metagame reasons, which is lame. I will reread again and list who I find suspicious and why, but right now I am getting way more "probably town" reads than "probably scum" reads. And, I've seen Pinkies lynched over and over again as town because of his playstyle. Last game I played with him apart from any current games was Scooby Doo. I was convinced he was scum then on Day One, and I was right. I am just not feeling it here. I'm confused, then. You said you were off to hunt scum at one point but now you are saying that from the beginning of this game, your style of play is not good for scum hunting. So in addition to your excuses for why your play looks suspicious, you now have an excuse for why you cannot hunt scum. The fact that you cannot find any scum (which is my interpretation of your comment that most players are coming up "probably town" for you) makes you look even more suspicious to me. How many times have we heard scum say "no one looks scummy to me"?
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on May 13, 2011 9:54:48 GMT -5
<snip> As far as the comment against Holey Moley, I was hoping that she would tell us whether she is scum, 3rd party, or someone in Town (maybe she could be the Survivor [and for the record, I checked the role list before posting this idea] ) <snip> You were expecting Moley to tell you he was scum? Not directly come out and say "Yes, Colby. I'm the scum godfather, 3rd party survivor, etc etc etc" It could be possible that Moley could be a power role, and come out so that he could be protected by the doctor during the night actions, if he was the Jack of all trades, etc etc etc.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on May 13, 2011 9:58:25 GMT -5
Putting in my two cents on Captain, I have to agree with the mob. If Captain could post the PM for his purchased vote, then he could post his PM.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 13, 2011 10:04:18 GMT -5
Putting in my two cents on Captain, I have to agree with the mob. If Captain could post the PM for his purchased vote, then he could post his PM. He already did. What he hasn't done is post his role PM.
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 13, 2011 10:05:27 GMT -5
Ma'at is subbing in for Paranoia
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