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Post by Renata on May 19, 2011 15:35:20 GMT -5
Current Vote Count:
Meeko (3,3) BillMc [72] Guiri [108] Archangel [116] BillMc (2,2) Honest Moley [81] Ma’at [103] Metallic Squink (1,1) Septimus [112] Archangel (1,1) Metallic Squink [121] Lightfoot (1,1) CatInASuit [165] Guiri (1,1) Rysto [171] GnarlyCharlie (1,1) JustBeingGinger [173] JustBeingGinger (0,1) CatInASuit [64 165] CatInASuit (0,1) Septimus [47 112] colby11 (1,1): Meeko [13]
With these votes, Meeko will be lynched.
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Post by Rysto on May 19, 2011 16:05:46 GMT -5
You accused me of listing off frustrating things he'd done, I was making 6 accusations. You've commented on the first one only: lurking. On its own it may not a reliable scum-tell but when you add the incomplete alignment claim, the drawn out explanation of his vote restriction, the lack of claim, the lack of suspicion/commentary and broken promises of participation, there's a pretty good probability that the player is not Town. I'd rate The inconsistency is that you said that was your main reason for voting was story's case. What were your 6 accusations about, then? It looks to me like my original accusation, made before you fleshed our your own points, was correct: you wanted to "me-too" story's vote but you didn't want to be seen as doing so, so you put together a weak case that held up to casual inspection and voted. I really, really don't like seeing a player disclaiming responsibility for their vote, especially before the cardflip. You accused me of trying to get people annoyed and then vote him, I denied that accusation as Pinkies had succeeded in getting people annoyed himself and that my vote wasn't going to make have that effect. I was in no way disclaiming responsibility for or distancing myself from my desire to lynch him.[/quote] Maybe I read too much into that. My other points stand.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 19, 2011 16:41:45 GMT -5
I'm trying to work through the thread. I'll be commenting on stuff as I go; this will ensure I actually get something done, rather than trying to save it all up and fizzling because my eyes don't clear up in time. JustBeingGinger : In post D03.066 you defend yourself from accusations made by CIAS that you jumped off the Captain Pinkies bandwagon late on Day 2 without sufficient justification to distance yourself from a Townie lynch. To quote the relevant part. In the second quote you referenced I was not looking for his VOTE PM, but his ROLE claim. To me there is a HUGE difference. His vote PM does not give me any information that he is town, scum or 3rd party. The "second quote" to which you are referring was D02.270, in which you said : My vote was not a I am voting you to come out to play vote, well not 100%. He saw with ACE not claiming and got lynched. So yes, he should claim at least a little bit. Post the PM that states his forced vote. He has the mind set that IF I am town then let me be lynched, as long as TOWN wins I do... All the while he does nothing to contribute to that TOWN win. (Bolding mine.) That does not accord with your claim Today. Please explain why, with reference to when and where you asked Pinkies to roleclaim.
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Post by LightFoot on May 19, 2011 16:48:02 GMT -5
Day One was Day One. Day Two spent a lot of time on game mechanics/ meta game comments/ voters confusion/ and rehashing the claims that were/ were not made. Some of my suspicions were born D2. If I have to read D2 again I may volunteer to have Merestil Haye’s procedure. My voting notes for D3 may be flawed I tried to keep track while composing (oh and doing my job too) ----------------------------------------------- Rysto,
Votes D1 moley D2 guiri D3 guiri I did get this response when I prodded ~~snip~~ @lightfoot: I see your complaint, and I am sorry for my lack of participation. I'm being hit by a double whammy of having little time to devote to the game along with few posts that have stuck out to me as being worthy of comment. I know full well that you all need to see content out of me in order to evaluate my alignment, and I will do my best to provide you all with that. But not much else D3 Game mechanics. Short statements. More previous game references. Some Anti-Town vs Pro-Scum debate. ToDay D3.171 there us a post outlining a vote for guiri ending with that vote. Guiri was Rysto’s vote choice yesterDay and it sorta smells like recycled material. (not that I give a whit WHO Rysto votes for right now except me of course ) I DO think the vote could have more fleshed out reasoning (perhaps new information ) on the NEXT Day. It was stated above that Rysto would be sharing more content and I have not seen it. ----------------------------------------- storyteller,
Votes D1 ace D2 Cap pinkies D2 post about being behind and trying to catch up D3 Checks in, not silenced, busy IRL Helpful to a point with the post re: BillMc He tested “Town” by the cop (if we read the crumbs on the table right) So Bill is either Town or a Godfather. ---------------------------------------------------- Archangel,
Votes D1 storyteller/ace D2 Cap Pinkies ( I didn’t include the ‘test’ vote) D3 meeko (She skims you know) D3 Checks in , agrees with a few people, speculates a minute about the deaths last Night. Pops back in . RL is keeping her busy. Doesn’t like the Bill wagon. Votes ---------------------------------------------- gnarliecharlie Votes D1 ace D2 fluiddruid D3 comments about who killed whom. Confusion about the forced vote. Short answer to a question from JBGinger. fluff. Comment about not being around much. One line responses. ------------------------------------------------- Merestil Haye Votes D1 fliuddriud D2 fluiddruidD3 Game mechanics. Vote shenanigans revisited. Will be away RL unable to read after proceedure ---------------------------------------------------- To storyteller, Archangel, gnarliecharlie, and Merestil Haye I say RL can cause these symptoms I can’t fault you for those. But I am watching. For Rysto “Here’s your vote” Vote: Vote Rysto These are my observations YMMV Before you mention it yes, CatInaSuit was on my origional list for not 'kicking the tires ' as much as I anticipated. Since CIAS is currently 'kicking MY tires" we will hash that out together.
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Post by guiri on May 19, 2011 17:09:46 GMT -5
Did this get cut off? The inconsistency is that you said that was your main reason for voting was story's case. What were your 6 accusations about, then? Reasons for finding Pinkies suspicious. It looks to me like my original accusation, made before you fleshed our your own points, was correct: you wanted to "me-too" story's vote but you didn't want to be seen as doing so, so you put together a weak case that held up to casual inspection and voted. Where did you accuse me of this? You initially accused me of trying to get players annoyed with Pinkies. In #302, #303 and #304 I posted my thoughts on Colby, Archangel, Fluid, you and Pinkies. I ended the last post with a vote explicitly agreeing with Story's argument that Pinkies was acting exactly as scum would and stating that I thought he was the best lynch candidate.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 19, 2011 17:30:11 GMT -5
I'm trying to work through the thread. I'll be commenting on stuff as I go; this will ensure I actually get something done, rather than trying to save it all up and fizzling because my eyes don't clear up in time. JustBeingGinger : In post D03.066 you defend yourself from accusations made by CIAS that you jumped off the Captain Pinkies bandwagon late on Day 2 without sufficient justification to distance yourself from a Townie lynch. To quote the relevant part. In the second quote you referenced I was not looking for his VOTE PM, but his ROLE claim. To me there is a HUGE difference. His vote PM does not give me any information that he is town, scum or 3rd party. The "second quote" to which you are referring was D02.270, in which you said : My vote was not a I am voting you to come out to play vote, well not 100%. He saw with ACE not claiming and got lynched. So yes, he should claim at least a little bit. Post the PM that states his forced vote. He has the mind set that IF I am town then let me be lynched, as long as TOWN wins I do... All the while he does nothing to contribute to that TOWN win. (Bolding mine.) That does not accord with your claim Today. Please explain why, with reference to when and where you asked Pinkies to roleclaim. Here is the post: D2.P228 **************************************************** Trying to catch up on the events of the Day here. Vote Captain Pinkies It appears that he is holding back information that could be helpful to TOWN. So until he reveals his PM with the forced vote and or claims. This will be my vote. *************************************************** As the day went along and the more he refused to play or claim the more suspicious I got. I was no longer going to unvote him simply because he posted his VOTE PM. Keeping in mind that his behavior was suspicous and the vote pm does not tell his alignment. After he posted his roleclaim PM, I still had hesitation but unvoted him.
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 18:19:58 GMT -5
If I've got my time zones right (I'm in Beijing at the moment), there is about 26hrs to day end. We've 11 of 17 voting, probably 5 scum alive, and just look at the spread of votes: Current Vote Count: Meeko (3,3) BillMc [72] Guiri [108] Archangel [116] BillMc (2,2) Honest Moley [81] Ma’at [103] Metallic Squink (1,1) Septimus [112] Archangel (1,1) Metallic Squink [121] Lightfoot (1,1) CatInASuit [165] Guiri (1,1) Rysto [171] GnarlyCharlie (1,1) JustBeingGinger [173] JustBeingGinger (0,1) CatInASuit [64 165]CatInASuit (0,1) Septimus [47 112]colby11 (1,1): Meeko [13] Are the Town really that in the dark about the game? Or are the scum spreading their votes to protect Meeko?
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 18:25:58 GMT -5
And given the fact that I'll be on plane at day end.....
it is time for a "Ta Daaa" moment and for me to reveal some additional information
Colby blocked ALL kills on Night 1
The Scum most definitely killed Ed - because I killed Colby.
Killing Alice/Colby and replacing her was my goal.
I have done this, I am now Town.
We can lynch Meeko, or even Squink, and if I am wrong, then the vig can quite happily kill me, as I doubt the Doc would protect me if I was proven wrong.
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 18:26:58 GMT -5
My original PM:
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 18:29:01 GMT -5
This morning, SisC confirmed that I had found Alice:
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 19, 2011 18:32:34 GMT -5
And given the fact that I'll be on plane at day end..... it is time for a "Ta Daaa" moment and for me to reveal some additional information Colby blocked ALL kills on Night 1 The Scum most definitely killed Ed - because I killed Colby. Killing Alice/Colby and replacing her was my goal. I have done this, I am now Town. We can lynch Meeko, or even Squink, and if I am wrong, then the vig can quite happily kill me, as I doubt the Doc would protect me if I was proven wrong. So why did Colby come up as vanilla town when you killed him? Just trying to understand all this..
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Post by LightFoot on May 19, 2011 18:47:30 GMT -5
~~snip~~ The Scum most definitely killed Ed - because I killed Colby. You claim to have killed Colby HOW could you know most definitely who killed Ed ? And what about fluiddruid ? Can Vanilla Town have a one shot power? (and still be called vanilla?) Why would SisC give you the PM when all she had to do was tell you that you were now Alice and you were vanilla? I am not liking this on its face. Have we heard from Moley today?
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Post by Dirx on May 19, 2011 18:48:35 GMT -5
As outlandish as it is, parts of the claim seem legit enough. Colby's use of the phrase on Day 1 does look slightly out of place. So, that plus the non-events of Night 1 seems to make sense regarding his PM, and the fact that you know it gives some credence to your claimed ability.
fluiddruid was a combination role, half of which was a role traditionally set as PFK, but ultimately she really was just 3rd party. The same pattern of half-PFK but still 3rd party shows up in your claimed role.
Who did you target on Night 1? Why did you choose Colby? It seems awfully fortuitous that you nailed your wincon on your first successful kill.
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Post by Ma'at on May 19, 2011 19:02:10 GMT -5
Curiouser and curiouser, that’s for sure.
One the face of it, I’m thinking I believe Bill’s claim (you certainly do get the interesting roles, if this one’s true).
I’ll be interested to see the dialogue this generates, and when I get home from work tonight, I’ll see if I have any questions of my own (never much time to post during the work day). At least I was *sort of* right in my vote – you weren’t town (at least not in the beginning). Not sure if I’m convinced you’re now vanilla town, but I’ll have more time to think about it tonight. For now…
Unvote Bill
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 19:09:37 GMT -5
As outlandish as it is, parts of the claim seem legit enough. Colby's use of the phrase on Day 1 does look slightly out of place. So, that plus the non-events of Night 1 seems to make sense regarding his PM, and the fact that you know it gives some credence to your claimed ability. fluiddruid was a combination role, half of which was a role traditionally set as PFK, but ultimately she really was just 3rd party. The same pattern of half-PFK but still 3rd party shows up in your claimed role. Who did you target on Night 1? Why did you choose Colby? It seems awfully fortuitous that you nailed your wincon on your first successful kill. I actually went after Colby on N1 --- the "pack of playing cards" phrase is an Alice quote and it seemed really out of place - and given his desire to stay alive, he looked like a good guess for N1. I was told I couldn't find him on N1 - so I tried again.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 19, 2011 19:20:01 GMT -5
So a Vanilla town can have a roleblocker power and still be vanilla?
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 19, 2011 19:52:28 GMT -5
~~snip~~ The Scum most definitely killed Ed - because I killed Colby. You claim to have killed Colby HOW could you know most definitely who killed Ed ? And what about fluiddruid ? Can Vanilla Town have a one shot power? (and still be called vanilla?) Why would SisC give you the PM when all she had to do was tell you that you were now Alice and you were vanilla? I am not liking this on its face. Have we heard from Moley today? You haven't. Well golly golly gosh. (That's what I say when I'm thinking too many expletives for this child-friendly board.) Unvote BillMC until I can make some sense of this. I'll try and do that tomorrow morning/ today morning / whatever when it's not 1:45AM. Only one point that intrigues me right now: if BillMC was a third-party on Night One, what happened with regards to Storyteller's point about Spec. Ed breadcrumbing him as town? Does Ed's power automatically occur after Bill's transformation? Still strongly think Meeko is town by the way. Let's not make the same mistake three times in a row.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 19, 2011 20:09:54 GMT -5
Well, there goes my point regarding Special Ed's putative breadcrumb.
Dammit.
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Post by Dirx on May 19, 2011 20:14:57 GMT -5
A followup: Bill, since you've been going on a little about the lie detector Today, would you care to make a definitive statement about your current alignment?
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Post by Rysto on May 19, 2011 21:11:59 GMT -5
I was going to say that I rated "the lack of suspicion/commentary and broken promises of participation" as lurking as well. Now, it's easy for me to say this after the card flip, but given that Pinkies is well-known for lurking, given that he's well-known for being bizarre, I don't rate your points as meaning much. Especially your first point, about a scummy Pinkies needing to act bizarre to not be seen as changing his playstyle. Ok, that's fine, but that's a total null-tell. Why bring that up? Why, right there in my original vote post... I'm really suspicious that while ostensibly building a case against Pinkies, really you've just listed off a series of really frustrating things that Pinkies has done. Uh, or not... Ok, I never addressed the "me, too" aspect before today. I remember now that I was going to make an argument* about it, but ultimately decided that my line of argument was really a null tell. I guess I ended up axing it entirely. I did, however, focus on the important point: you had a fair amount to say about Pinkies, all of which added up to basically nothing in terms of an actual argument against him * The argument was going to be something along the lines of "scum would feel obligated to have more content behind a vote than just a 'me-too'", but then I realized that I certainly hope that a town would feel obligated to provide as much reasoning behind a vote as possible, so I dropped it.
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Post by Rysto on May 19, 2011 21:12:35 GMT -5
~~snip~~ The Scum most definitely killed Ed - because I killed Colby. You claim to have killed Colby HOW could you know most definitely who killed Ed ? And what about fluiddruid ? There's no way that the scum targeted a claimed third party Night Two. That's a wasted kill. That's a perfect target for a Town Vig, though. colby flipped as Mary-Anne, not Alice.
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 22:38:27 GMT -5
A followup: Bill, since you've been going on a little about the lie detector Today, would you care to make a definitive statement about your current alignment? Unlike Meeko, I am fine with making statements for any lie detector, if they actually exist, to evaluate. I am now Town. As of Day3, I am now Town, I killed Colby Night 2. I started this game as Mary Ann, killed her,and took her place.
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 22:40:04 GMT -5
Well, there goes my point regarding Special Ed's putative breadcrumb. Dammit. Well I was as surprised as anyone getting a hug from Ed! Maybe he knew I was 3rd party, maybe he never investigated me at all.
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Post by BillMc on May 19, 2011 22:57:25 GMT -5
A followup: Bill, since you've been going on a little about the lie detector Today, would you care to make a definitive statement about your current alignment? Unlike Meeko, I am fine with making statements for any lie detector, if they actually exist, to evaluate. I am now Town. As of Day3, I am now Town, I killed Colby Night 2. I started this game as Mary Ann, killed her,and took her place. Just to avoid any ambiguity - i'll restate the 3rd line: I started this game as Mary Ann, killed Alice (Colby) and took her place and I am now Town.
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Post by Ma'at on May 19, 2011 23:54:28 GMT -5
So, back to square one since Bill claimed. I reread and thought a little more about it, and still not 100% convinced he's vanilla town, but am seeing "townieness" now in some of the things I thought were scummy (pushing people to state their reasoning behind thinking scum killed Colby - he knew he killed Colby so maybe was somehow trying to get scum to slip up or something).
Decided to check out Storyteller, since he said I looked suspicious for my vote on Bill (seemed as good a place to start as any). He hasn't posted a whole lot, but he does urge Ace to make a claim on D1, which seems townish to me. Also urges Pinkies to participate, which also seems townish.
D2, not a lot, but does make a case as to why Pinkies lack of participation doesn't just seem anti-town (which, according to...I forget who....does not equate to pro-scum), but actually seems more like what a scum caught in a bad situation would do. So, also seems townish
Only slightly scummy thing I can find was that he seemed very sure that Ed was breadcrumbing that Bill was town based on the hug comment. I'm never sure about anything in this game, so when someone seems very sure about something, it pings me slightly. But, could just be a difference in play styles (and, you play more games, maybe you get more sure of your hunches).
So, nada here, or at least not much. On to the next one, and then I will have to call it a night (hoping I can reread one more person fast enough to be able to post thoughts tonight)
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 19, 2011 23:57:29 GMT -5
Vote: GnarlyCharlieI never thought I would consider him a lurker. I understand that he is in 3 games but contribute to who you think is suspicious. I find it hard to believe that the only person he finds suspicious is Archangle and has since Day 1. He has been laying very low. The lack of anything from him is pinging me. Ginger, i'm here now. And given the fact that I'll be on plane at day end..... it is time for a "Ta Daaa" moment and for me to reveal some additional information Colby blocked ALL kills on Night 1 The Scum most definitely killed Ed - because I killed Colby. Killing Alice/Colby and replacing her was my goal. I have done this, I am now Town. We can lynch Meeko, or even Squink, and if I am wrong, then the vig can quite happily kill me, as I doubt the Doc would protect me if I was proven wrong. Bill, based on your quoting of the two PMs, i'll count you as close to Town short of turning up dead. ;D i just want some clarification. you voted for Meeko because: 1. his un-Meeko play 2. his posted PM about a forced vote the first is what it is. for the second, why don't you think the Mod wouldn't add the bit about Colby being dead or alive? is it because when Mods set up a game they already have set PMs for certain events? do you have other reasons you haven't mentioned? furthermore, you suspect Squink, Lightfoot, Mhaye and Rysto. you suspect Squink basically for defending Meeko. how about the others?
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Post by Ma'at on May 20, 2011 1:06:24 GMT -5
So, unfortunately for me, the next person I decided to re-read was quite a prolific poster in D1 and D2 (haven't gotten to D3 yet). Suburban Plankton made a partial claim on D2, but some of the events leading up to it strike me as odd. This is going to be a long one... Suburban Plankton makes his vote before the 24 hour restriction is up. there are some issues with the vote count. it is discovered that 3 people are voting Pinkies, but he only has 2 votes (so one vote is not being counted). There is general confusion, and requests for SisC to correct the previous vote counts (which she had said were incorrect). Gnarly says, why correct the posts, might be voting shenanigans. Suburban Plankton (SP) says (post 123, D2): going back and correcting the various vote counts might help us to determine the nature of those 'shenanigans'. Knowing specifically which votes did or did not count, and when any 'extra' votes were applied, ought to help us get a clearer picture of exactly what is going on Today. Of course, he knows full well what happened, but does not mention it, and plays dumb.In post 131 SP posts: If SisC declines to go back and post corrected vote counts, might it be a good idea for Ed, septimus, and I to unvote and revote, one at a time, at this point? In post 141 he works backward on the vote count, and comes to the conclusion that "So it looks like fluiddruid received a 'penalty vote' for not acting last Night, and My (Suburban's) vote on Pinkies does not count. Discuss" Post 198 SP says: Regarding my vote on Captain Pinkies, there are quite a few possibilities. On thing we can hopefully determine is whether the affected person is me or Pinkies, so with that in mind (bolding is mine - Ma'at) Unvote: captain Pinkies and just for fun Vote: Special Ed I plan to keep this vote in place only as long as it takes for me to see its effectiveness after the next vote count. Then, in post 221 (I think more than 24 hours after the discussion began about why Pinkies was missing a vote), SP makes his partial claim and explains what was going on. His reason for partial claiming now: To keep the confusion to a minimum, I'm making this partial reveal now, because otherwise we're going to waste the rest of Today trying to figure out what's going on with the votes instead of using the time in a more constructive manner My point with posting all of that is to make a point that SP plays dumb in quite a few posts, pretending like he doesn't know what's going on and is trying to figure it out, when he knows the whole time what's going on. (Bolding so it doesn't get lost in this long post). This is not the same as lying, per se, but it is misleading for quite awhile before coming clean.Suburban Plankton - care to let us know what was going on in your head when you were making all those "I don't know what's going on, but let's try to figure it out" posts? I will admit, it would be very easy, if you were scum, to just let the confusion persist, so you didn't *have* to come out and make your partial claim. So, I'm not saying (at least not yet ) that you are scum, or even likely scum, but I would like to know your reasoning behind actively playing dumb.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 20, 2011 3:52:02 GMT -5
Ok, this game has become wierd and twisted. Looking over BillMc's claim, it looks reasonable enough, and by reasonable I mean Sis Coyote has probably been smoking something illicit to come up with this.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 20, 2011 4:00:28 GMT -5
I've got just enough time for a quick comment on Bill's claim.
I think Bill's claim is self-consistent, and explains the kill-less Night 1 while allowing other actions to have occurred (the only one we know about so far being the purchase of Pinkies' vote on Day 2, which is unlikely to be a Day power). His willingness to provide declarations of his alignment for the lie detector to try and verify suggests that he's not afraid of being investigated. (That could be a double bluff of course, but it seems quite a risky one.)
I'm off for the rest of the day. Hope to see people tonight.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 20, 2011 4:25:14 GMT -5
While reading back I noted the following My alignment is Town. My ass is fabulous. *one of these things is a lie Note to self: fluiddruid has a fabulous ass. ;D
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