Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2011 13:56:01 GMT -5
In the beginning was the Role PM.
So, high.
A couple of points to draw to your attention.
Firstly, I can only investigate a complete sentence. This means that some of the Day 1 claims are useless. My preferred format is for people to say “I am Town,” It doesn't have to be on a single line, but it does have to be a full sentence.
Secondly, I can only investigate a statement made the previous Day. One of the reasons I didn't claim straight away was that I didn't want to flood the Day threads with “I am Town” statements.
I'd like the following players to make a clear and unequivocal statement of Town-ness please.
Archangel. CIAS. Guiri. Rysto.
Others may do so if they wish.
As for why I didn't include the timestamp (I'm sure that will come up) – it's trivial to edit that information.
Night One, I elected to test Metallic Squink. Here's part of the PM I sent Sister C.
Here is Sister Coyote's reply.I've redacted the discussion of reasoning and alternative candidates to avoid giving the Mafia information on my thought processes that might be used to guess future investigations. I intend to do that in future claims as well.
On Night 2, I considered testing Fluiddruid's claim, but that pesky sentence rule got in the way. Fortunately, I had the sense to ask Sister C about it first. The exchange of PMs.
And her reply: -I concluded that, since it was all one sentence, it would return “true” whether or not Fluid had actually posted a fully accurate PM, since the part after the colon was clearly written for the lie detector.
So I went with Suburban Plankton. I asked: -
Sister Coyote replied as follows.
While we may need to be a bit careful of this, I'd be inclined to put Suburban as probably town as a result of that information.
Night 3. Who do you think I tested?
Sister Coyote gave me this reply.
So there you have it. Three Nights worth of investigations. When assessing the results, we do have to consider the possibility that a Godfather could successfully lie to me, but we can address that in the coming Days.
Peace, out. Have some of this. It's good stuff, man.
(I'm a slow-ish typist. I didn't want you to think I was dozing off or something. That happens too often as it is.)
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Post by Rysto on May 27, 2011 14:00:11 GMT -5
I am Town.
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Post by Ma'at on May 27, 2011 14:01:48 GMT -5
Not sure when M Haye is coming back, so will just post my vote now, since it doesn't *seem* like it's some crazy scum ploy to save Archangel.
vote Metallic Squink
Here's what I had been typing up until I checked the boards and saw M Haye's original message.
My thoughts:
I’m thinking that either Archangel or Squink are scum, or they are both scum, but I don’t think they’re both town. So, I may be safe voting for either, but in case only one of the two are scum, I should obviously be voting for the one I think is *most* scummy.
Evidence against Archangel: Numerous slips, which may be innocent, may not (“I am also town”, accusations of skimming early in the game, the sentence in post 20 D4 that makes it appear as though she knows Meeko is scum: “I also thought given that Bill was voting Meeko, it was likely he wasn’t scum”, which she later corrects)
Meeko vote day 3 with no justification other than protecting Bill
Day 4 claim that she was voting Meeko to save Bill, then claiming later that really she was placing a bad vote to try to catch scum. Her explanation for this was “meh”, at least to me.
On the other hand, she has made a few posts (at least 2) that seem to say “town” to me. And of the two people voting for her, 1 I think is scum, the other I keep going back and forth on
Evidence against Squink While reading, I haven’t seen particular *issues* with Squink’s posts (like with Archangel's), more just a sense that they sound more scummy than townie. More a “gut feel”, I suppose. (Which Squink has complained is hard to defend against, which is true, and probably frustrating if you’re town)
There aren’t any posts of Squink’s that say “town” to me, like there are for Archangel
Of the people voting for Squink, 1 looks town to me, one I’m reserving judgment on and one I’m leaning town, but not sure.
So, it’s either go with the “hard” evidence and vote Archangel, or go with only a “gut feel” and vote for Squink. I could also be wimpy and just vote Squink to put them in a tie, and let someone who hasn’t voted yet decide. Voting Archangel, almost seems like clinching her fate (M Haye and Story would need to vote Squink, and someone else would have to change their vote to put it on Squink).
This is as far as I got, and still had not made up my mind either way as to who to vote for. At least M Haye has solved that problem for me.
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Post by Ma'at on May 27, 2011 14:02:29 GMT -5
I see M Haye has posted while I was putting up my message - reading now...
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Post by Rysto on May 27, 2011 14:05:48 GMT -5
Hm, loophole time:
If I were to say, "CIAS is Town", could you investigate that statement and get CIAS's alignment, regardless of whether I know CIAS's alignment or not?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 27, 2011 14:06:20 GMT -5
What about the second portion of my post, where I echo Lightfoot's question? If "Mary-Ann" was partially immune to Night Kills, then you should no longer have that power, because you are now "Alice", isn't that correct? Since MHaye is now exposed, I'm not going to answer that, and leave a big mug of wifom around whether I would survive a nk, whether the doc is protecting me, whether the doc is protecting mhaye or something else So, Yesterday, you said all of this... Killing Alice/Colby and replacing her was my goal. I have done this, I am now Town. This morning, SisC confirmed that I had found Alice: I am now Town. As of Day3, I am now Town, I killed Colby Night 2. I started this game as Mary Ann, killed her,and took her place. Just to avoid any ambiguity - i'll restate the 3rd line: I started this game as Mary Ann, killed Alice (Colby) and took her place and I am now Town. Colby had a one shot power. He used it, and was then vanilla. Likewise with my role. You told us repeatedly and in no uncertain terms that you are now Alice, and that you are now Vanilla Town. Now you're saying that you are not Vanilla Town. So which is it?
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Post by Ma'at on May 27, 2011 14:10:35 GMT -5
M Haye's post seems pretty believeable. I'm thinking the sentence Bill should type is, "I'm not the Godfather", since it's maybe possible that he will come back as "town" to M Haye's investigation? (I think that's what he's implying, and seems to be at least a plausible theory).
Not quite sure I understand his comment about not wanting to flood the boards with "i am town" statements?
Anyway, following Rysto's lead, since the statements seem to have to be made every day...
I am town.
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Post by guiri on May 27, 2011 14:12:27 GMT -5
I am Town.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 27, 2011 14:13:07 GMT -5
MHaye, why did you pick me on Night 1?
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Post by Rysto on May 27, 2011 14:22:38 GMT -5
M Haye's post seems pretty believeable. I'm thinking the sentence Bill should type is, "I'm not the Godfather", since it's maybe possible that he will come back as "town" to M Haye's investigation? (I think that's what he's implying, and seems to be at least a plausible theory). If a hypothetical godfather can dodge an investigation of "I am town", they can probably dodge an investigation of "I'm not the godfather".
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Post by Ma'at on May 27, 2011 14:27:21 GMT -5
My very limited understanding is that a Godfather investigates as town, which means "I am town" might come back as true, but seems like "I am not the Godfather" should come back as a lie if he really is.
Maybe not, I don't know...others have any thoughts?
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Post by BillMc on May 27, 2011 14:31:19 GMT -5
M Haye's post seems pretty believeable. I'm thinking the sentence Bill should type is, "I'm not the Godfather", since it's maybe possible that he will come back as "town" to M Haye's investigation? (I think that's what he's implying, and seems to be at least a plausible theory). I am not the godfather. The key point is that MHaye tested my statement "I am now Town" - for that to be true, I previously would have had not to be town. So my alignment changed - so therefore I cannot be the godfather.
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Post by BillMc on May 27, 2011 14:35:24 GMT -5
My very limited understanding is that a Godfather investigates as town, which means "I am town" might come back as true, but seems like "I am not the Godfather" should come back as a lie if he really is. Maybe not, I don't know...others have any thoughts? So you are suggesting that I bussed Meeko and now want to bus Squink and Lightfoot too?
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Post by guiri on May 27, 2011 14:36:12 GMT -5
Unless you have the potential to change alignment again in the future! Now that would be gastard.
MHaye, Suburban's quoted PM contained his character name in blue font, if his statement was found as true, wouldn't he be confirmed Town?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 27, 2011 14:39:35 GMT -5
The key point is that MHaye tested my statement "I am now Town" - for that to be true, I previously would have had not to be town. I'm not so sure of that. "I am now Town" means "I am Town at this time (now)". It doesn't necessarily imply that I was 'non-Town' at some point in the past, nor does it say anything about what I might be in the future. Whether or not this makes it any more or less likely that you might be a Godfather, I'm not sure. I'd still like to know if you are now Vanilla or not.
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Post by LightFoot on May 27, 2011 14:41:27 GMT -5
Unless you have the potential to change alignment again in the future! Now that would be gastard. MHaye, Suburban's quoted PM contained his character name in blue font, if his statement was found as true, wouldn't he be confirmed Town? " A Portion. everything in that post may not be true but some of it is
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 27, 2011 14:50:32 GMT -5
I Shall invite moley to End of Day. might as well Thanks very much, it's been quiet on the Moley front these last couple of pages. To MHaye, I say - YAY! I was finally right about something! **Huggles MHaye...**Wait... you made me wait in agony for almost THREE DAMN DAYS before you confirmed this? **Strangles MHaye...**To Sis C... I love that every single power role so far has been an incredibly weak-sounding character. The dormouse, the white rabbit, the caterpillar, Mary-Ann, the Cheshire Cat... Wouldn't surprise me if we had a combination vig-investigator-doc that turned out to be an oyster or something. ;D
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2011 14:53:00 GMT -5
Metallic Squink : I wanted to build a group of tested Townies with good potential to last into the middle- and end- game, and be confirmed after my death. In the early game, that meant avoiding those the Mafia are likely to kill quickly, and those likely to get themselves lynched. You seemed a good candidate to avoid both problems. We're now solidly into the middle game, so that doesn't necessarily apply any more.
Guiri : SP was, to a certain extent, the best option available. I'm convinced that what appears in the quote box is a portion of his PM. I can't be sure that it's not edited, which is why I express caution.
On Bill : The result of my investigation suggests that he is Town at this point. Whether he has always been his current alignment was not tested. If I said "I am now Town" that would register true to a lie detector (because I am); it says nothing about what I was Yesterday or whether I have changed.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 27, 2011 14:53:07 GMT -5
MHaye, why did you pick me on Night 1? Is that all you've got after MHaye's accusation? This is the point where you're supposed to claim some useful 3rd Party role, that you didn't want to admit to on Day 1 because it would have gotten you lynched, so you had to lie...but which is really no threat to Town at all, so we should let you live, because you promise to help us hunt Scum so you can win with us. C'mon, get with the program!
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Post by BillMc on May 27, 2011 14:58:46 GMT -5
@plankton
You, as town, would like me to give a definitive statement that would actually benefit the scum?
That would be very anti-town.
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Post by BillMc on May 27, 2011 14:59:48 GMT -5
MHaye, why did you pick me on Night 1? Is that all you've got after MHaye's accusation? This is the point where you're supposed to claim some useful 3rd Party role, that you didn't want to admit to on Day 1 because it would have gotten you lynched, so you had to lie...but which is really no threat to Town at all, so we should let you live, because you promise to help us hunt Scum so you can win with us. C'mon, get with the program! Give her time for her to collaborate with ms lightfoot to forge something
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Post by Archangel on May 27, 2011 15:02:26 GMT -5
I am Town.
MHaye, you rock!
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 27, 2011 15:03:41 GMT -5
Unvote GnarlyCharlie Vote Metallicsquink
Not because solely on Mhaye's claim but the response from Squink is not trying to deny it.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 27, 2011 15:04:53 GMT -5
I am town
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 27, 2011 15:06:47 GMT -5
I Shall invite moley to End of Day. might as well Sorry, forgot something. If you asked whether my Role PM was posted in its ENTIRETY, you'd get a "False" report, because Sis C included some personal comments at the start that are irrelevant from a gameplay perspective but form part of the same PM. So let me rephrase for the Lie Detector to remove all ambiguity: The quote above is the complete unedited description of my role and alignment that was provided by Sis C; and so far I have requested to use that role on Meeko, Colby, and Lightfoot, on Night One, Two and Three respectively, each time receiving the phrase "You listen and listen for all you're worth within your teapot, but you hear no communication from" as part of the response. Ok, I've checked and triple-checked that sentence and made sure that it fits at every point. If the Lie Detector were to check it, he would receive a "True" response.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2011 15:08:30 GMT -5
Hm, loophole time: If I were to say, "CIAS is Town", could you investigate that statement and get CIAS's alignment, regardless of whether I know CIAS's alignment or not? I don't know. I've chosen not to raise that question with Sister Coyote, nor open that can of worms by testing such a statement. I was concerned that, even if Sister Coyote confirmed it legit, it could cause logic debates that would obscure Mafia-hunting efforts. So I chose not to invoke Zymurgy's Seventh Law of Evolving System Dynamics. 1A Portion. everything in that post may not be true but some of it is I read "a portion" as meaning "What is in the quote box is a part of my PM." You will note that there are no powers, so SP could not have claimed that was his whole PM. 1Once you've opened a can of worms, the only way to contain them is to use a bigger can.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 27, 2011 15:10:07 GMT -5
@plankton You, as town, would like me to give a definitive statement that would actually benefit the scum? That would be very anti-town. If you are in fact Town, then a definitive statement might benefit Scum. I do not know for a fact that you are Town. The evidence at hand suggests that you are, but it is not 100% conclusive. The bigger issue to me is why you chose to claim your 'partial Scotsman' ability when you did, being as you were under no suspicion whatsoever. Especially since the existence of that ability directly contradicts what you told us Yesterday concerning your role. And you'll note that you made your statement before MHaye made his claim, so using his lie-detector ability as an excuse for your silence (as you did in Post 269) seems rather disingenuous. I had you pretty solidly in the Town camp earlier Today, but your actions recently now have me doubting. I'll admit that if you're Scum (which would seemingly make you the Godfather), I have no idea what your game is at this point...so you can count me as 'confused' at the moment.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 27, 2011 15:16:08 GMT -5
Just to get this over with for Today:
I am Town
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Post by metallicsquink on May 27, 2011 15:17:42 GMT -5
To Sis C... I love that every single power role so far has been an incredibly weak-sounding character. The dormouse, the white rabbit, the caterpillar, Mary-Ann, the Cheshire Cat... Wouldn't surprise me if we had a combination vig-investigator-doc that turned out to be an oyster or something. ;D Snuggling the moderator is a scum tell!
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Post by metallicsquink on May 27, 2011 15:19:33 GMT -5
MHaye, why did you pick me on Night 1? Is that all you've got after MHaye's accusation? This is the point where you're supposed to claim some useful 3rd Party role, that you didn't want to admit to on Day 1 because it would have gotten you lynched, so you had to lie...but which is really no threat to Town at all, so we should let you live, because you promise to help us hunt Scum so you can win with us. C'mon, get with the program! You are giving me way too much credit! I will say that MHaye is lying about one thing because I'm not even wearing pants!
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