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Post by guiri on May 27, 2011 4:39:07 GMT -5
@ guiri Just catching up are you? No, reviewing in light of Meeko's flip. Others have looked at the people voting Meeko, I wanted to look at those who didn't as I doubt all scum jumped on Meeko's bandwagon. D1 votes are D1 votes for the most part. I have responded to most of these observations. I was NOT bandwagoning ace At worst I was meta-gaming . I had recently played a game with her where we were both Scum and her play style was infuriating to me. (I was seeing the same thing and I did think she was SCUM or 3rd Party) My reasons for voting her had nothing to do with the vote count I am not sure I was even aware of the count when I posted my vote. How the hell did I “help” her vote ( OH you refer to the coaching she got from me and others on how to post it right) ? I gave her some advice that she should play . Not how to. I'm not concerned with your initial vote, you had a D1 gut feeling about Ace, OK. My concern is how you moved the goalposts: you say you'll unvote if she responds to the reasons you've given for your vote - how can she respond to a gut feeling? What other reasons did you give? You then say you'll unvote if she starts playing- she already had started playing by this time and you were aware of her participation as you helped her with the vote tags. This was your response to his WoW: DEAR CatInaSuit What a lovely WoW (and after I said such nice things about you too) Have you actually read anything I wrote after you first started this line of questioning? I do enjoy you not responding TO me , typing AT me works better for you? BTW at work I compose my posts in word and check my facts. If I have clients come in or work to do It can take hours before I get the thing posted. You don't address his points: "The support of the pinkies lynch without being on it." "The switch of reasoning to vote fluiddruid and not rysto. First fluiddruid should get time, followed by voting for her." "Oh yeah, at the time you voted, your vote for fluiddruid would not have got her lynched, in the same way that a vote for rysto at that point would not have got him lynched. So why insist that your would be better placed on Fluiddruid?" I was called out for voting FD when I had said I thought Rysto was acting scummier but but my vote would do no good there. You are calling me out for NOT bandwagoning Meeko? No, I found it telling that you didn't make any comment either way on the case against him. You mentioned that he was one of three players who were bugging you, commented on players who were not kicking the tires but didn't include Meeko, and didn't mention him again until Moley proposed you as an alternative lynch candidate. What was bugging you about him, why didn't you consider him as not kicking the tires and why did you avoid commenting on the cases against him?
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 4:52:51 GMT -5
Day 1 he votes Archangel. Certainly did. Day 2 he votes Archangel again. Archangel is actually the lynch leader early in the Day and in a close race with Pinkies midway through the Day. But once it becomes apparent that Pinkies is going to swing, he moves his vote over. I think you will find Pinkies was way into the lead when I voted for him and I believe you should check the reasons. He posted the vote PM, while claiming town, and failing to post his own Role PM at the same time. On Day 3 he seems to have completely forgotten about Archangel's scumminess, to the point at which he tells us he's not sure one way or the other, but hedges his bets in case "certain people" flip Scum. He doesn't tell us who the "certain people" are, but he makes reference to possible ties between septimus, Suburban Plankton, Meeko, and Archangel, thinking perhaps that the three of us were trying to save Archangel by voting Pinkies on Day 2. It was a very odd pattern on Day 2 I noticed, are you saying I should have kept quiet. Whether you are part of that chain or not, at least one of them was scum (Meeko) and I see no reason why others may not be as well. Speaking of septimus, he had told septimus earlier in the Day (Post 70) that "Actually, no I don't find you that scummy", but had apparently reconsidered by Post 158, when he says though he hadn't made any mention of the fact in between. At the time he asked, no I didn't find him scummy on a brief readthrough. Going through it in more detail, I changed my mind. I gave reasons as well, whether you agree with them or not is up to you. Day 4, after Meeko had flipped Scum and septimus had picked up several late votes for his vote-switch, he actually gets around to voting septimus, hoping apparently to springboard off the late suspicions on Day 3. septimus' late switch is precisely the reason I looked at him again above lightfoot, archangel or others. I voted for septimus on Day 3 for what appeared to me to be driving the final nail into Meeko's coffin (thinking at the time that Meeko was Town). By that reasoning, I think it's unlikely that septimus is Scum, but I think CatInASuit definitely is. I'm also leaning toward Archangel being Town, but I don't think it's impossible that CIAS was bussing a teammate early on in the game. Looking back at the end of Day 3, and knowing Meeko was scum, I believe septimus' vote change was more likely to be a scum trying to gain townie cred. No-one else was really likely to be lynched on that Day, everyone else was on a couple of votes with Meeko on 5, then Archangel on 3. It was made about 20 mins after you voted Archangel and with 4 1/2 hours to go. At that point in time, if he hadn't switched votes the only other person than Meeko likely to be lynched was Archangel. Oh look, there's that link with Archangel again. I really must stop spotting these co-incidences because scum wouldn't do that.
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Post by guiri on May 27, 2011 4:57:15 GMT -5
The only possible reason for me to have voted Meeko if I'm scum is to get town cred. I did not get town cred by placing a vote on him with no reasoning. Instead, what I got was a bunch of people going after me for voting badly. Which is precisely the reason I did it. I laid out bait, and you jumped on it. Hold one, you voted badly with bad reasoning and then you turn round and say, aha, I voted badly deliberately to try and trap people. Huh. That's a new one on me. You would have got town cred, if you had voted meeko for a good reason. You didn't, but because you didnt get town cred and got people picking over your vote for poor reason, which is precisiely what the town are supposed to do , it was actually a devious plan to get the scum voting for you. Twisted. I agree that this is twisted. Archangel, who was the bait for? Scum or Town? Were you trying to attract votes off Meeko? Why disappear afterwards and make no follow-up of on the people who jumped on the vote? Why did you explain your vote as "primarily to save" Bill toDay if you had a bigger scheme in mind?
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 27, 2011 5:02:21 GMT -5
Well in all fairness, the following things have happened in quick succession to me: 1) I've investigated a person I initially thought was likely to be scum, only to draw entirely the wrong conclusion and pretty much rule him out of contention. As a result of this, I've done my absolute best to publicly sabotage the lynch of a scummy player. 2) I've published my exact night actions, role PMs, mod PMs and my own comments, verbatim, only to find that people I think are most likely town don't believe them. 3) And if this isn't enough, when somebody tries to vote me, he finds that his vote has been cancelled. I have no certain knowledge who did this or why; just a helluva lot of wild ideas born mostly out of paranoia. To stretch a metaphor, this is like getting out of the frying pan, finding yourself in the fire; and then, just when you think you've got out of the fire, having somebody pick up the frying pan and clobber you with it! BTW #1, I am officially declaring this a Gastard game. There are two things you almost never touch in a mafia game: people's ability to vote, and private communications between mod and players. Both of which seem to be wide open right about now. It's like the game was designed by some bureaucratically-obsessed cousin to the Joker. Sis C, got anything you want to admit? BTW #2, I agree with almost everything that Gnarly wrote, which worries me a great deal if he's scum. Couple of exceptions: I am town, Guiri looks like strong town to me, and I've not got any kind of read on Plankton yet as right now he's practically the only person left whose posts I haven't gone through in detail. I did think CIAS was almost certainly insane town, but I'm reconsidering that one. I'm not declaring him scum by any means, but I don't think he's as safe as I thought he was early on. and you call me insane town... Thank you for your humor!! Every other post in here is so serious. I know it's a game but still... Maybe it's the cold meds talking now. I agree that Gnarly is looking very townie now. I am going to have to go back and look at others that I suspect. Hehe. Hope you get well soon anyway. I know what it's like to play while stoked. (You shoulda seen the cocktail of drugs I was on during Arkham Knights, where I had some serious health issues... never again! Weirdly, with the exception of "Smasher Mansion" that was probably my best game here... it is weird that I seem to play my best when medicated?) A quick word to CIAS: Apart from my thinking Septimus is town, a lot of my objections to the case on him come from my idea that Squink is scum. If I'm right about that, she and Septimus have been at odds through a large part of the game. I don't think this is a similar case as, for example, me bussing Nanook in "Smasher Mansion" ( Nanook was a Lover role, meaning that when he was lynched, a townie would also die; he also had a post restriction that limited him to five posts per Day.) If Squink flips scum, it makes Septimus look a lot better. There does seem to be a weird divide at the moment between myself, Bill, Septimus, Gnarly, etc; and Squink, CIAS, Archangel, Lightfoot, etc. Seems to be centred on whether Septimus or Squink is scum. Normally I'd ask whether we're voting in cliques instead of based on suspicions, or else whether the scum have set up two players to act as the primary two "suspects". Trouble is, the votes seem genuine for the most part, and I strongly think that one of Squink and Septimus is scum. I'd also usually say that the scum would be careful to have people on both sides of the divide, but again, not so sure here. Normal rules don't apply?
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 5:07:15 GMT -5
<snipped quotes> CIAS, you seem to be of the opinion that Archangel, JustBeingGinger, septimus, and Honest Moley must all be Scum, because they all know what other people's alignments are. How exactly do you know that all of these people know? Are you that good of a player, or do you perhaps already know who the Scum actually are? I am that damn good. ;D What, hey, why are you all laughing at me. I am really. Honest. Think about it, if someone is scum, then they know who the town or rather, non-scum are. What's so hard about that sentence. Simple answer is I don't know, how could I, I'm town. Yeah, I would say that wouldn't I. Archangel: - I think she is scum JBG: It's based off her experience in previous games as to how ace903 played. She answered the questions I asked to my satisfaction, so I think she is town now. septimus: Umm, why are you using that quote, it's likely a co-incidence, even I have admitted that. moley: its a question more about how scum play. FTR, I think moley is likely town not scum. So your point is.......
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 5:22:10 GMT -5
A quick word to CIAS: Apart from my thinking Septimus is town, a lot of my objections to the case on him come from my idea that Squink is scum. If I'm right about that, she and Septimus have been at odds through a large part of the game. I don't think this is a similar case as, for example, me bussing Nanook in "Smasher Mansion" ( Nanook was a Lover role, meaning that when he was lynched, a townie would also die; he also had a post restriction that limited him to five posts per Day.) If Squink flips scum, it makes Septimus look a lot better. There does seem to be a weird divide at the moment between myself, Bill, Septimus, Gnarly, etc; and Squink, CIAS, Archangel, Lightfoot, etc. Seems to be centred on whether Septimus or Squink is scum. Normally I'd ask whether we're voting in cliques instead of based on suspicions, or else whether the scum have set up two players to act as the primary two "suspects". Trouble is, the votes seem genuine for the most part, and I strongly think that one of Squink and Septimus is scum. I'd also usually say that the scum would be careful to have people on both sides of the divide, but again, not so sure here. Normal rules don't apply? I will come clean on one thing. I believe I may have a blind spot with squink because she appears to be hunting scum in pretty much the same way as I am. As a result, I am very likely to find her town. However, this does not mean that she is not town and I keep finding enough problems with septimus to think he is scum. Another point to note. On Day 1 and 2 for ace and Pinkies who were town, someone wound up in the lead and was pretty much the lynchee from halfway through the Day. Day 3 with Meeko - it was much, much tighter and nothing was really resolved until the end of day. Day 4 feels very much the same. I would be very surprised if one of the top three, squink, archangel and septimus, were not scum. Looking at it, I would be happy with a Septimus, Archangel or even lightfoot lynch as guiri has pointed out the issues with her responses to my vote
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Post by Archangel on May 27, 2011 6:31:51 GMT -5
ime=1306490235] Hold one, you voted badly with bad reasoning and then you turn round and say, aha, I voted badly deliberately to try and trap people. Huh. That's a new one on me. You would have got town cred, if you had voted meeko for a good reason. You didn't, but because you didnt get town cred and got people picking over your vote for poor reason, which is precisiely what the town are supposed to do , it was actually a devious plan to get the scum voting for you. Twisted. I agree that this is twisted. Archangel, who was the bait for? Scum or Town? Were you trying to attract votes off Meeko? Why disappear afterwards and make no follow-up of on the people who jumped on the vote? Why did you explain your vote as "primarily to save" Bill toDay if you had a bigger scheme in mind?[/quote] 1. Scum 2. No. I VOTED Meeko. I was trying to attract votes off of Bill. 3. Because I did intend to come back and got a job offer and got distracted. (I'm working today so I won't be back until some time this evening, checking the game before I go.) 4. Because it was primarily to save Bill. The other aspect of it was tertiary. (The secondary purpose was that I believed Bill was likely right about Meeko, so Bill was likely right to be scum.) I won't be able to view the board again until 6:30 pm Eastern, so don't expect more responses from me until then. But on the off chance I'm unable to come back: 1. I sense a bandwagon forming on me so let the record show I'm vanilla town. (Which is fairly obvious to scum already as they know I'm town and probably realize I wouldn't have pulled a stunt like that if I weren't.) 2. My top suspects now are Metallic Squink and Cat in a Suit. (I think Metallic is getting really frustrated that I present such a logical scapegoat and yet people aren't buying it.) 3. I'm still suspicious of Moley for good reason (as I said earlier, I have never seen a claimed series of night actions that consisted entirely of people who are already dead or no results that weren't town). However, his post accusing SisC of being a gastard mod slightly swayed me. (That wouldn't be a very sporting thing to do if he were scum.)
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2011 6:35:16 GMT -5
Day 2 he votes Archangel again. Archangel is actually the lynch leader early in the Day and in a close race with Pinkies midway through the Day. But once it becomes apparent that Pinkies is going to swing, he moves his vote over. I think you will find Pinkies was way into the lead when I voted for him and I believe you should check the reasons. He posted the vote PM, while claiming town, and failing to post his own Role PM at the same time. Pinkies' lead in the lynch stakes was not substantial when you voted. Pinkies had one vote, and nobody else had any at all. A one vote lead is not "substantial." It might be the margin of lynch at the end of the Day; but at the beginning, with only one vote posted, it's nothing. I don't like this mischaracterisation of the position at all. Sets my antennae twitching. On the other hand it was so easy to disprove it could be nothing more than a memory fade, and I have enough of those to sympathise.
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Post by Archangel on May 27, 2011 6:35:56 GMT -5
NETA: Sorry, screwed up the quotes.
And:
I think Metallic Squink is getting upset that...some people aren't buying it. I don't mean to imply that everyone who suspects me is scum. In fact, it's likely that there's at least one scum defending me, but I don't have a good read on who it is.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 6:45:07 GMT -5
I think you will find Pinkies was way into the lead when I voted for him and I believe you should check the reasons. He posted the vote PM, while claiming town, and failing to post his own Role PM at the same time. Pinkies' lead in the lynch stakes was not substantial when you voted. Pinkies had one vote, and nobody else had any at all. A one vote lead is not "substantial." It might be the margin of lynch at the end of the Day; but at the beginning, with only one vote posted, it's nothing. I don't like this mischaracterisation of the position at all. Sets my antennae twitching. On the other hand it was so easy to disprove it could be nothing more than a memory fade, and I have enough of those to sympathise. No, I think you misread my post. When I first voted for Archangel,. Pinkies had 1 vote. When I voted for Pinkies, I was number 9 on the list. My reasons for voting him are the ones quoted above.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 27, 2011 6:51:46 GMT -5
Can we get a current vote count, please!
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2011 6:53:36 GMT -5
When I first voted for Archangel,. Pinkies had 1 vote. When I voted for Pinkies, I was number 9 on the list. I guess we're talking at cross purposes then, because this is meaningless to me. I fail to understand how "Pinkies was way into the lead when I voted for him" can be construed to mean anything other than "There were a substantial number of votes on Captain Pinkies when I voted for Archangel." There were not; there was one. And you were, in fact, the second person to vote all Day. Where you were on some list published later in the Day is irrelevant. I'm not challenging your reasons, just your characterisation of your own vote.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 6:55:42 GMT -5
When I first voted for Archangel,. Pinkies had 1 vote. When I voted for Pinkies, I was number 9 on the list. I guess we're talking at cross purposes then, because this is meaningless to me. I fail to understand how "Pinkies was way into the lead when I voted for him" can be construed to mean anything other than "There were a substantial number of votes on Captain Pinkies when I voted for Archangel." There were not; there was one. And you were, in fact, the second person to vote all Day. Where you were on some list published later in the Day is irrelevant. ;D Archangel = her Pinkies = him
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2011 7:01:00 GMT -5
;D Archangel = her Pinkies = him I know that. Everyone knows that.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 27, 2011 8:51:03 GMT -5
From Archangel. My comments preceded by >>>
I agree that this is twisted.
Archangel, who was the bait for? Scum or Town? Were you trying to attract votes off Meeko? Why disappear afterwards and make no follow-up of on the people who jumped on the vote? Why did you explain your vote as "primarily to save" Bill toDay if you had a bigger scheme in mind?[/quote]
1. Scum 2. No. I VOTED Meeko. I was trying to attract votes off of Bill. 3. Because I did intend to come back and got a job offer and got distracted. (I'm working today so I won't be back until some time this evening, checking the game before I go.) 4. Because it was primarily to save Bill. The other aspect of it was tertiary. (The secondary purpose was that I believed Bill was likely right about Meeko, so Bill was likely right to be scum.)
>>> You still haven't explained exactly what you expected people to jump on.
I won't be able to view the board again until 6:30 pm Eastern, so don't expect more responses from me until then. But on the off chance I'm unable to come back:
1. I sense a bandwagon forming on me so let the record show I'm vanilla town. (Which is fairly obvious to scum already as they know I'm town and probably realize I wouldn't have pulled a stunt like that if I weren't.)
2. My top suspects now are Metallic Squink and Cat in a Suit. (I think Metallic is getting really frustrated that I present such a logical scapegoat and yet people aren't buying it.)
>>> What scapegoat? And a scapegoat for what? And my frustration is that I am getting votes because people "feel" that I am scummy which is very hard to defend myself against. I am frustrated that you are giving off a ton of scummy signals that no one else seems to see but me. I am also frustrated that some people who are voting for me are not responding to my questions (Moley and BillMc). I suppose I am just supposed to lie back and think of England at this point, right?
3. I'm still suspicious of Moley for good reason (as I said earlier, I have never seen a claimed series of night actions that consisted entirely of people who are already dead or no results that weren't town). However, his post accusing SisC of being a gastard mod slightly swayed me. (That wouldn't be a very sporting thing to do if he were scum.)
>>> I find it dubious that you have never seen a false cop claim, for example, where all results were town and/or for dead players.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 27, 2011 9:00:08 GMT -5
Honest Moley, based on your theories, if I am scum, shouldn't the scum be trying to build a bandwagon to come along and save me? All I see are a bunch of one-off votes at this point. I doubt the scum would want to lose two players two Days in a row.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 9:40:29 GMT -5
Ok, I've been back over squink and BillMc. If he can see what's scummy about squink and she is scum, he's a much better player than I am, because I just don't see it.
I've been weighing up Archangel's answers about her vote and they just don't make sense. At all. There was no bandwagon on Bill, just 2 votes. The only person fitting her criteria is Ma'at and she hasn't looked at her today.
The comments about being on a bandwagon and being a scapegoat? What for? A bad vote with twisted justification. I think your trying to cover up any way you can.
Do I think both septimus and archangel are scum. yes Do I think squink is town. Yes.
Well, if it was a trap, congrats you caught a townie.
Unvote: septimus
Vote: archangel
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 27, 2011 9:46:03 GMT -5
Honest Moley, based on your theories, if I am scum, shouldn't the scum be trying to build a bandwagon to come along and save me? All I see are a bunch of one-off votes at this point. I doubt the scum would want to lose two players two Days in a row. You mean, like this? Unvote: septimus Vote: archangel Of course, it's hard to believe it would be that easy, right?
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Post by Rysto on May 27, 2011 9:52:29 GMT -5
Do I think both septimus and archangel are scum. yes I have to say, I don't see how this conclusion makes any sense at all. If septimus and Archangel are both scum, where were the scum voting on Day 3? For Lightfoot? You were one of the two voters on Lightfoot? I find it extremely hard to believe that all of septimus, Archangel were scum, because there should have been some kind of push in another direction, but that didn't happen.
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 27, 2011 10:05:12 GMT -5
Current vote count:
Archangel (4,1): Metallic Squink [102], CatInaSuit [226] Metallic Squink (3,3)*: BillMc [8], HonestMoley [98], septimus [151] Septimus (1,2): CatInASuit [17,226], Archangel [21] Gnarlycharlie (1,1): JustBeingGinger [18] Ma’at (1,1): Rysto [35] Lightfoot (1,1): guiri [198] BillMc (1,1): Lightfoot [205] Honest Moley (0,1): gnarlycharlie [123,177,180], Suburban Plankton [175,183] Suburban Plankton (0,0): gnarlycharlie [177,180]
With these votes, Archangel will be lynched.
ToDay will end in approximately ten hours assuming the mod has done her math right.[/color]
Breakdown: person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in]
In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 10:21:48 GMT -5
Do I think both septimus and archangel are scum. yes I have to say, I don't see how this conclusion makes any sense at all. If septimus and Archangel are both scum, where were the scum voting on Day 3? For Lightfoot? You were one of the two voters on Lightfoot? I find it extremely hard to believe that all of septimus, Archangel were scum, because there should have been some kind of push in another direction, but that didn't happen. Well Archangel and septimus were on Meeko and Lightfoot was on you. And the reason for it not being a bus of Meeko is...... and according to you, if Archangel is scum, we will see a push on a different person to prevent her being lynched. If she is town, then there will be no push and she will get lynched on 4 votes. We also still have four people without a vote.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 27, 2011 10:26:24 GMT -5
Oh wait, is this where I say its a trap to draw people off squink because I think she's town onto someone I think is scum. ;D
I'm voting Archangel because there is enough detail there though today to convince me she is scum and not because I think squink is town and needs protecting.
That's likely to be all from me for toDay, see you on the flipside.
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Post by Rysto on May 27, 2011 11:24:10 GMT -5
*sigh*
Less than 9 hours before the deadline, and Archangel is in the lead. Archangel, I think that you need to claim now, because the story that you're telling here doesn't make any sense and you're drawing suspicion because of it. I'm very confident that you're a power role and that I've guessed what your power is, and if I could do that, so could the scum.
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Post by guiri on May 27, 2011 11:25:42 GMT -5
She's already claimed vanilla in #216. I thought she was the Doc and protected Bill N1, deduced that she caused the lack on Night Kills and so deduced he must have been the target.
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Post by Rysto on May 27, 2011 11:36:12 GMT -5
Huh, I missed that claim. And yes, that was exactly what I was thinking.
Hm, now I really have some thinking to do, because what she's done really doesn't make any sense.
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Post by BillMc on May 27, 2011 11:38:44 GMT -5
Do you want to share a little more from the PM? ..snip... Don't forget we are also missing a Strongman and a Scotsman as well, I mean they are also on the list. Oh what the hell .... the scotsman is accounted for....the one bit omitted from my claim ... ...I was hoping to have to the scum waste a NK attempt on me -- maybe they already have.
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Post by BillMc on May 27, 2011 11:39:04 GMT -5
I'm really not seeing the case against Archangel.
I guess we don't have a lie detector, or if there is, they haven't got any results relevant to todays lynch candidates.
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Post by guiri on May 27, 2011 11:52:41 GMT -5
@ Bill, what do you make of Archangel's claim that her vote on Meeko was bait for scum in an attempt to make them vote her instead of you? Blind faith in your scum-hunting skills? Trust that you were Town, even if you were 3rd party? Manipulative bussing of Meeko? Snuggling?
As Doc, I could see a reason. As VT, none.
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Post by LightFoot on May 27, 2011 11:56:38 GMT -5
Do you want to share a little more from the PM? ..snip... Don't forget we are also missing a Strongman and a Scotsman as well, I mean they are also on the list. Oh what the hell .... the scotsman is accounted for....the one bit omitted from my claim ... ...I was hoping to have to the scum waste a NK attempt on me -- maybe they already have. Bill as Mary Ann would have been the Scotsman. Bill as Alice should just be vanilla ? If I read your PM’s right if Colby as Alice had not used his one shot power you would have had it when you ‘switched’. So the Scotsman died with Colby No?
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Post by LightFoot on May 27, 2011 11:58:55 GMT -5
I Shall invite moley to End of Day.
might as well
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