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Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 21, 2011 15:15:12 GMT -5
catching up.
Match pace Archangel
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Post by moodymitchy on Jul 21, 2011 15:31:50 GMT -5
Outrun StorytellerI won't be here for the end of Day but I have no wish to see Archangel lynched... Captain Pinkies has already stated that he won't be around for a couple of weeks so his vote won't be changed. And I have no idea whether gnarleycharlie will be back either. I've not got a real gripe with Storyteller but I do see what Lightfoot is getting at. And as we are on the same side I have no problem following her vote. I actually am starting to think that Captain Pinkies could well be the Vig. I'd fully expect the Vig if it isn't the elusive Cap to shoot Cap toNight. Given that we know know he's not going to be around for at least another Day and a half (game time). I'd vote Silver Jan as I've already voiced my suspicions of the early production of a Vanilla TOWN claim..... BUT. She just happens to be in the same genus groups of lemmings that Mr Special Ed claims to be in when he mentions his theory about the lemmings being grouped in 3's... Though his theory does have some merit I am wary that it might be wrong... And I don't think he'd risk being lynched Day 4 if we were wrong about Silver Jan and lynched her toDay. As that would make him the last person alive in that group and therefore by his flimsy theory... likely SCUM. I hope this all makes some sense.. Just trying to get some thoughts out there. Oh and just because I'm a Mason does not make my SCUM hunting skills any better... as you can tell if you look at who I would have happily lynched On preview I see gnarliecharlie has made it back
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Post by guiri on Jul 21, 2011 15:43:12 GMT -5
1. I was quite clear as to why I thought Archangel would be Scum if colby flipped Scum: 1a. On Day 1, Archangel voted colby even though trepa took the lynch by many votes. She didn't vote Colby, she said she had 2 reasons to be suspicious, promised a WoW and promptly disappeared until D2. 1b. On day 2, when it appeared quite possible that colby would die, she flip flopped without giving a reason, yet stating that she had a reason. She changed her mind about him and said she wouldn't reveal the reason in D2#40, before Colby had a single vote. 1c. I concluded it quite possible that she was distancing herself from colby on day 1, and then trying to save him on Day 2. You never answered why she'd choose to distance herself on D1 when there was no danger of Colby being lynched. 1d. Really, the case was quite clear. How you failed to understand it is beyond me. He's not alone, I wasn't buying this reasoning at all until she appeared to contradict herself about her lemming and seemed to get caught up in her own lies.
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 15:50:05 GMT -5
1. I was quite clear as to why I thought Archangel would be Scum if colby flipped Scum: 1a. On Day 1, Archangel voted colby even though trepa took the lynch by many votes. She didn't vote Colby, she said she had 2 reasons to be suspicious, promised a WoW and promptly disappeared until D2. She changed her mind about him and said she wouldn't reveal the reason in D2#40, before Colby had a single vote. You never answered why she'd choose to distance herself on D1 when there was no danger of Colby being lynched. 1d. Really, the case was quite clear. How you failed to understand it is beyond me. He's not alone, I wasn't buying this reasoning at all until she appeared to contradict herself about her lemming and seemed to get caught up in her own lies. 1a. My mistake about the vote. Still, her comments about being suspicious could qualify as distancing herself 1b. Colby was the runner up on Day 1, so it was apparent that he might be a likely candidate on Day 2 1c. When a Scum teammate is not in danger of being lynched is a perfect time to distance yourself. If it weren't we'd never have talk of suspicious one-off votes. He's in no danger of being lynched, and she's still made a case against him she can point to were he ever to be killed showing her Towniness. It happens frequently. 1d. There is a difference between not agreeing with the case and telling me that I didn't make one. Suburban stated that I didn't give reasons for suspecting Archangel if Colby flipped Scum. I can certainly go back and find them, but I really do believe I was clear about them.
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Post by guiri on Jul 21, 2011 15:50:25 GMT -5
I'm now wondering (though he'll call it smudging)... why guiri feels the need to build "compelling" cases against people ? I realize you haven't directed these questions at me and of course I'm not going to call it smudging but I really don't understand your questions about neeing to make compelling cases.
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Post by Deni on Jul 21, 2011 15:51:14 GMT -5
Outrun Captain Pinkies
Personally, I would like to see him mod killed due to the fact that this is normal game play for him, however, I am choosing to break the 5 way tie.
Yes the vig could take him out tonight if Cap himself is not the vig, but I would prefer the vig be used in a way that would help us gain information rather than eliminate a nonplaying player.
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 15:55:29 GMT -5
Outrun Captain PinkiesPersonally, I would like to see him mod killed due to the fact that this is normal game play for him, however, I am choosing to break the 5 way tie. Yes the vig could take him out tonight if Cap himself is not the vig, but I would prefer the vig be used in a way that would help us gain information rather than eliminate a nonplaying player. Generally lynches revel more information than Vig kills. However, I'm not sure that will be true with such a large number of potential lynch candidates. it really is odd.
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Post by guiri on Jul 21, 2011 16:00:10 GMT -5
Personally, I would like to see him mod killed due to the fact that this is normal game play for him, however, I am choosing to break the 5 way tie. The mod has already stated that this is a possibility. Yes the vig could take him out tonight if Cap himself is not the vig So you think he could the vig but are voting him anyway with no chance for him to defend himself or claim? , but I would prefer the vig be used in a way that would help us gain information rather than eliminate a nonplaying player. What information will we gain from your vote? This really is an easy vote for scum to make. I'm confident in my vote on you.
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Post by Deni on Jul 21, 2011 16:07:15 GMT -5
Generally lynches revel more information than Vig kills. However, I'm not sure that will be true with such a large number of potential lynch candidates. it really is odd. I realize that is normally true. I was thinking more along the lines that if fubblestag investigates a scum or if we are in the situation where eliminating someone to gain information comes in handy. I am not sure I am explaining this very well, hopefully I am making sense.
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Post by moodymitchy on Jul 21, 2011 16:15:28 GMT -5
I'm now wondering (though he'll call it smudging)... why guiri feels the need to build "compelling" cases against people ? I realize you haven't directed these questions at me and of course I'm not going to call it smudging but I really don't understand your questions about neeing to make compelling cases. You made a 31 point post about me... with all of these points apparently pointing to what you felt was dubious / Scummy behaviour by me... I said at the time that IF you felt I was SCUM then fine vote me but you seemed to be doing an awful lot of work to try and convince others... Now you have made a hole WOW on Deni (and a couple of others) and then proceed to vote her.... Your vote no her also comes only 6 posts after I've said I was suspicious of her.... Maybe you felt it was yet another "safe place" to put your vote for toDay..... and IF it turns out that she is indeed TOWN.... you could state that a Mason (not proven until dead) was suspicious of her too.... Or like I said in the original post... but you choose to omit in your response.. MAYBE IT'S JUST HIS WAY.
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Post by LightFoot on Jul 21, 2011 16:19:39 GMT -5
*When you claimed VT while mapping out the lemmings *When you said”At this point, I would do whatever I could to get the Scum to continue to shoot for the doctor.” These bits could have encouraged a Lemming or three to chime in with their genus showing. Which I think would be a bad idea. um, no..you're missing a fine distinction. I would love it if the Scum shot at the doctor. I don't actually want them to find him, silly. You usually explain things well--- this I don't track as a response to my statement
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Post by Deni on Jul 21, 2011 16:26:05 GMT -5
Personally, I would like to see him mod killed due to the fact that this is normal game play for him, however, I am choosing to break the 5 way tie. The mod has already stated that this is a possibility. So you think he could the vig but are voting him anyway with no chance for him to defend himself or claim? , but I would prefer the vig be used in a way that would help us gain information rather than eliminate a nonplaying player. What information will we gain from your vote? This really is an easy vote for scum to make. I'm confident in my vote on you. Yes the mod stated this as a possibility but when I am part of that 5 way tie, I would prefer not to wait until Day 4 to see that became a reality. No I don't think Cap is the vig, it was being talked about so I was acknowledging the possibility. If this was abnormal play for him I may be more inclined to hear from him.
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 16:34:31 GMT -5
um, no..you're missing a fine distinction. I would love it if the Scum shot at the doctor. I don't actually want them to find him, silly. You usually explain things well--- this I don't track as a response to my statement I know, it's perhaps somewhat hypocrtical that I claimed Vanilla dn don't want others to do so yet. If all of the Vanilla claimed, the Scum would have effectively found the doctor/Vig in the non-claimers. giving them a 50-50 chance of killing the doc. Now, with so many potentially confirmed Town, I would love it if the Scum wasted a couple of Night shooting for the Doctor and missing, eliminating unconfirmed players and leaving our Masons and investigated Townies alive. That would be super extra nifty! Even if they eventually get the doctor.
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Post by guiri on Jul 21, 2011 16:35:35 GMT -5
I said at the time that IF you felt I was SCUM then fine vote me but you seemed to be doing an awful lot of work to try and convince others... OK, yes, that's the way I play.
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 16:37:38 GMT -5
I realize you haven't directed these questions at me and of course I'm not going to call it smudging but I really don't understand your questions about neeing to make compelling cases. You made a 31 point post about me... with all of these points apparently pointing to what you felt was dubious / Scummy behaviour by me... I said at the time that IF you felt I was SCUM then fine vote me but you seemed to be doing an awful lot of work to try and convince others... Now you have made a hole WOW on Deni (and a couple of others) and then proceed to vote her.... Your vote no her also comes only 6 posts after I've said I was suspicious of her.... Maybe you felt it was yet another "safe place" to put your vote for toDay..... and IF it turns out that she is indeed TOWN.... you could state that a Mason (not proven until dead) was suspicious of her too.... Or like I said in the original post... but you choose to omit in your response.. MAYBE IT'S JUST HIS WAY. I'm failing to see what the 'bad behaior' of guiri here is. He makes detailed cases and tries to convince others to agree with him. Isn't that what we do? Or are you suggesting we just guess and pray? Or make cases and not try to convince others with them. (and if so, what's the point of making your case public?)
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Post by LightFoot on Jul 21, 2011 16:43:09 GMT -5
You usually explain things well--- this I don't track as a response to my statement I know, it's perhaps somewhat hypocrtical that I claimed Vanilla dn don't want others to do so yet. If all of the Vanilla claimed, the Scum would have effectively found the doctor/Vig in the non-claimers. giving them a 50-50 chance of killing the doc. Now, with so many potentially confirmed Town, I would love it if the Scum wasted a couple of Night shooting for the Doctor and missing, eliminating unconfirmed players and leaving our Masons and investigated Townies alive. That would be super extra nifty! Even if they eventually get the doctor. I basically got that part. What you missed was where I brought it up in the first place. If just ONE vanilla Lemming miss read your posts (I pointed out how) and came a bouncin in here with their genus out it could cause a problem. I wanted it made clear that that was a bad idear
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 16:47:44 GMT -5
I know, it's perhaps somewhat hypocrtical that I claimed Vanilla dn don't want others to do so yet. If all of the Vanilla claimed, the Scum would have effectively found the doctor/Vig in the non-claimers. giving them a 50-50 chance of killing the doc. Now, with so many potentially confirmed Town, I would love it if the Scum wasted a couple of Night shooting for the Doctor and missing, eliminating unconfirmed players and leaving our Masons and investigated Townies alive. That would be super extra nifty! Even if they eventually get the doctor. I basically got that part. What you missed was where I brought it up in the first place. If just ONE vanilla Lemming miss read your posts (I pointed out how) and came a bouncin in here with their genus out it could cause a problem. I wanted it made clear that that was a bad idear OK
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jul 21, 2011 17:21:33 GMT -5
Archangel (1) : captain pinkies, Captain Pinkies (3) JBGinger, Special Ed, Deni Deni (2) : Guiri, CIAS Special Ed (2) : Archangel, Suburban Plankton Storyteller (2) : LightFoot, MoodyMitchy
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Post by Inner Stickler on Jul 21, 2011 17:51:42 GMT -5
Mitchy, I am not understanding exactly what your problem is either and frankly, I'm disappointed you're a mason because I very badly want to lynch you for your posts.
Vote: Deni I'm not a huge fan of people who are always popping in to reread but never seem to have more than facile conclusions to share. Also, I'm cool with a Pinkies lynch and a tie means coinflip so either way, I'm happy and if Deni is lynched, I get another day of Ed irritated by Pinkies so that's a win.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 21, 2011 17:55:33 GMT -5
Sorry, Ed, I got called away to a meeting that seemingly was never going to end. I had most of this post typed up 2 hours ago, but just got back to finish it. Several points. 1. I was quite clear as to why I thought Archangel would be Scum if colby flipped Scum: 1a. On Day 1, Archangel voted colby even though trepa took the lynch by many votes. 1b. On day 2, when it appeared quite possible that colby would die, she flip flopped without giving a reason, yet stating that she had a reason. 1c. I concluded it quite possible that she was distancing herself from colby on day 1, and then trying to save him on Day 2. 1d. Really, the case was quite clear. How you failed to understand it is beyond me. 2. I did express suspicion of moodymitchy. However, it was only in my agreement with guiri's case. I didn't make an independent case on him, that much is true. 3. I did move my vote to Captain Pinkies. We need to lynch someone. 4. I, of all people would want the Vig to take out Captain Pinkies. Did you also fail to notice me making that request repeatedly on day 2. Did you fail to notice my comments about how disappointed I was that the Vig failed to kill Captain Pinkies on Day 3? Are you even paying attention?!? 5. guiri's case was compelling. When the case against Archangel was proven wrong, I moved to it. Shouldn't really be a surprise. I found it compelling, then, suddenly, I was compelled to vote for him. 6. Your suspicious of me for putting colby into a tie with you, which eventually led to colby's lynch. yes, it's possible that I could have been busing him. To use that point against me is most certainly confirmation bias. 7. When you asked me if I had claimed Vanilla. I amswered that I had. I even pointed out the statement where I claimed it. Your confusion might be coming from my answer to a question that Inner asked before you, and which I answered before. He asked me if I had claimed earlier or if I was just claiming to support my theory. I replied that I had not claimed earlier...meaning I had not claimed earlier than my actual claim where I laid out my theory. Somewhere we miscommunicated. (I blame you, but YMMV) 1a. The fact that Archangel voted for someone other than the eventual lynchee is irrelevant. 1b. I'm not sure what 'flip flop' you are referring to, as Archangel ended the Day with a vote on colby. 1c. "Not voting for someone" =/= "distancing oneself", and "voting for someone" =/= "saving them" 1d. It's still not quite clear to me. 2 & 3. We are agreed on the facts, in not necessarily the implications 4. I have been paying attention. You did call for the Vig to kill Pinkies, and you expressed some disdain at the fact that he didn't. Of course, if you are Scum, and Pinkies isn't, then of course you would want the Vig to kill him, because then you wouldn't have to. 5. I didn't get the sense from your initial reaction that you were that much swayed by the arguments. 6. It may indeed be confirmaiton bias. In fact, if you were most other players, I would discount this line of reasoning entirely. But since you are not 'most other players', I can't put it past you. 7. I don't think it was my fault that I was confused about your claim. I think you were at best unclear, and at worst deliberately evasive. Now to go back and read everything else that was posted over the last couple hours, to see if anything sticks out.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jul 21, 2011 18:04:17 GMT -5
Captain Pinkies (3) JBGinger, Special Ed, Deni Deni (3) : Guiri, CIAS, Inner Stickler Archangel (1) : captain pinkies Special Ed (2) : Archangel, Suburban Plankton Storyteller (2) : LightFoot, MoodyMitchy
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Jul 21, 2011 19:07:20 GMT -5
There is something I don't like in Special Ed's comments about "shooting at the doc" and claiming vanilla, his voting pattern and building cases against others that have come up town.
I am going with my gut...
Match Speed Captain Pinkies Outrun Special Ed
As for Cap Pinkies, I am hoping that the Vig or the wonderful MOD will do something with him.
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Post by LightFoot on Jul 21, 2011 20:24:01 GMT -5
Did you know the Zoo had a pool table? It does. tonight is my pool night and I will be afk for EOD. ( I might be able to read when I return but I have enforced strict 'no typing intoxicated rule' upon myself)
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 21:21:50 GMT -5
1a. The fact that Archangel voted for someone other than the eventual lynchee is irrelevant. 1b. I'm not sure what 'flip flop' you are referring to, as Archangel ended the Day with a vote on colby. 1c. "Not voting for someone" =/= "distancing oneself", and "voting for someone" =/= "saving them" 1d. It's still not quite clear to me. She found colby suspicious on Day 1. She no longer found him suspicious as Day 2 began for reasons she refused to state. Tat is a flip flop. That is the case. 2 & 3. We are agreed on the facts, in not necessarily the implications 4. I have been paying attention. You did call for the Vig to kill Pinkies, and you expressed some disdain at the fact that he didn't. Of course, if you are Scum, and Pinkies isn't, then of course you would want the Vig to kill him, because then you wouldn't have to. And if I were a package of twinkies, I wouldn't care either way. You can't say that voting for him is a point against me as Town because I should want him Vig'd when clearly I wanted him Vig'd. So basically, if I was Town, why did I vote for him when I should want him Vig'd. And if I'm Scum, of course I want him Vig'd. It is impossible to argue against that. 5. I didn't get the sense from your initial reaction that you were that much swayed by the arguments. I said it was compelling. Did I need to hold a press conference? 6. It may indeed be confirmaiton bias. In fact, if you were most other players, I would discount this line of reasoning entirely. But since you are not 'most other players', I can't put it past you. So it's OK to use confirmation bias against me. Again, there's no argument against that. 7. I don't think it was my fault that I was confused about your claim. I think you were at best unclear, and at worst deliberately evasive. I stated that I was a Wrangle Island Lemming. I placed myself in a chart under Wrangle Island Lemming. You call that deliberately evasive? No, you got confused when I answered Inner Stickler that I had no claimed earlier. His question was obviously asking me if I had claimed prior to the claim I just made. You know, the one where I said that I was a Wrangle Island Lemming. Now to go back and read everything else that was posted over the last couple hours, to see if anything sticks out. huh?
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Post by special on Jul 21, 2011 21:24:03 GMT -5
There is something I don't like in Special Ed's comments about "shooting at the doc" and claiming vanilla, his voting pattern and building cases against others that have come up town. I am going with my gut... Match Speed Captain Pinkies Outrun Special EdAs for Cap Pinkies, I am hoping that the Vig or the wonderful MOD will do something with him. I haven;t called anyone an idiot in a damn long time. That said, I'm not a terrible lynch, I guess. Unless the people making these terrible cases are actually Town. Now, if the Vig actually shoots at Captain Pinkies toNight as well, then, we might actually have even more useful information.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Jul 21, 2011 21:50:35 GMT -5
The nice thing about vanilla townies, he said, to no one in particular, is that they're great as sandbags. While VTs should not necessarily go out and get themselves NKed on purpose, it is generally considered to be good for VTs to be the scum NK target as opposed to Town power roles. 3rd parties are better and scum would be best but I'm not sure about that ever actually happening. And this is why we try to avoid shrinking the unclaimed pool so that scum must waste their NKs on VTs and not hit confirmed or power roles. Remember, once we get more confirmed town than scum, it would be best for town if all the VTs just dropped dead. So, yes, we want scum to be shooting for the doc, we just hope they miss. I hope this has cleared up some or ideally, all the confusion regarding shooting at docs.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 21, 2011 22:02:18 GMT -5
Upon further rereading, I'll concede Point 7.
It started with this:
Special Ed (Post 207): I am a Wrangel Island Lemmin
Then there were two different 'conversations' that took place:
First,
Inner Stickler (Post 208): Did you claim earlier or is this just to lend support to your theory?
Ed (Post 212): Just to support my theory.
Suburban Plankton (Post 241):- OK, so you didn't claim 'earlier', are you claiming 'now' (that is, in Post 207)? Or was that Post just to support your theory?
Ed (Post 244): huh?
No, I hadn;t claimed yet at all.
and Second,
Suburban (Post 211): Ed, you're claiming Vanilla (Wrangel Island Lemming)?
Regardless of the answer to that question, I find your theory interesting but by no means anywhere close to proven. We must proceed with great caution if we are to assume it to be fact.
Ed (Post 251): Very true.
In the former, is seemd to me that I had asked you quite clearly whether you had claimed in Post 207, and you answered "No". In the latter, I took your response of "Very true" to be in reference to my statement about your theory, not to my question about your claim.
I still think you could have been more clear, but I'll concede that you weren't necessarily being purposely obtuse.
Regarding the rest:
Archangel may have flip-flopped, or she may not have. That's not the point; the point is that your tying together of Archangel and colby seemed opportunistic.
Yes, you called for the Vig to kill Pinkies. Yes, you said the case against moodymitchy was compelling. Neither of these statements prove you to be Town. And yes, it's OK for me to use confirmation bias against you. It's also OK for you to point out that it's confirmation bias.
I still think you're Scum. I was also not at all happy with Deni's vote on Pinkies, so I'm OK with the current tie.
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Post by Deni on Jul 21, 2011 22:54:25 GMT -5
Match Speed Captain Pinkies
Outrun Special Ed
For obvious reasons... to break the tie.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Jul 21, 2011 22:59:00 GMT -5
You'd better hope Ed's scum.
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Post by Meeko on Jul 21, 2011 22:59:53 GMT -5
Day 3 has ended.
A few seconds please.
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