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Post by deon on Nov 19, 2011 6:53:18 GMT -5
The "shushing" could be interpreted as someone trying to prevent PIS leaking? PIS? Please explain.... Along the same lines as the potential severing power, it would be interesting if there happened to be a power out there who could investigate someone and find out who they are linked to. I wish we knew beforehand the name of the person we were linked to, or even better if that person is town (preference) or scum (not for me)
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Post by moodymitchy on Nov 19, 2011 7:34:17 GMT -5
PIS = Perfect Information Syndrome....
When someone suggests a possibility or theory that seems to be suggested with perhaps a little more knowledge of the subject than others might have...
IF we knew whom we were attached to..... the SCUM at least would know whether they were attached to another SCUM or a TOWN so for me that would tip the balance in their favour..
With (as we all believe) no one knowing whom they are attached to... then if the result of a SCUM NK means that the target and whom they are attached to .. die... then it leaves SCUM with some interesting discussion as to who they should choose...
But , as has been said earlier toDay. This is all pure speculation on our part until we have been through a full cycle and gained some idea as to what might happen.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 19, 2011 8:49:47 GMT -5
Once upon some other game, I was playing Scum. I was posting a long analysis of the game state, on Day 1, and because I was Scum I knew that there were exactly three Scum in the game. So everything in my analysis just sort of assumed three Scum. But no non-Scum could have known the number of Scum so definitively. I had perfect information syndrome (PIS). I was rightly called out on it by, like, half the Town.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 19, 2011 8:55:39 GMT -5
No, you're right. By all means, let's talk about nothing. That'll make for both an exciting and effective strategy. I don't mind some discussion about what this mechanic might bring to the game. I'm just opposed to actually reaching any conclusions with no information whatsoever. I'm also opposed to deciding on a course of action at this point. And, I don't want this to dominate the discussion for the Day. That's quite different from wanting no discussion about anything at all. Why would you even pretend to come to that conclusion? It's not just you. It's also Paranoia, and Silver Jan, who both voted on the basis of "hey, why are we talking about this?" I am consistently, constantly annoyed by this thing where people dismiss a topic of conversation as irrelevant and "distracting." Seriously, distracting from what? It's a game entirely based around conversation about the game. We have to talk about something on Day One and in the absence of a vote record to dissect, the setup is as good a choice as any. The more people talk - about ANYTHING - the more information we will have about them. The PIS that I described in my previous post to deon is a perfect example; in that game, if I hadn't been blathering about the game setup, I'd never have revealed the extra information I had. I wish I could say that shutting down or limiting conversation in this way is Scummy, because it would make things a lot more straightforward. But mostly I think it's just a matter of preferred playstyle. But when folks start using it as a way to maneuver or as justification for vote, I do think it warrants a closer look.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Nov 19, 2011 9:46:56 GMT -5
Every time I have played a game where there is some mechanical device it is always discussed in Day 1, there is nothing abnormal about discussing what the possibilities are with such devices. Now having said that, one has to keep in mind that everything is all speculation, unless you know what happens... For those of us that don't, the only real way to know is to go through one cycle to see.
I would like to think that theRed Team and Blue Team are tied together, meaning that to one collar is a red member and one is a blue member. If two blue were tied together and one was lynched, it would be a hard hit to town, I guess as well to the Scum team as well.
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Post by LightFoot on Nov 19, 2011 11:52:53 GMT -5
Myself I like the mystery effect D1 it gets discussions flowing. Like the thing your mother gave you that you don't know what is. HHGTTG
If we aren't posting we aren't playing
[shameless plug] the little game I'm TRYING to start has all kinds of D1 business if we could just get 2-3 more) [/shameless]
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 19, 2011 13:00:15 GMT -5
It's not just you. It's also Paranoia, and Silver Jan, who both voted on the basis of "hey, why are we talking about this?" To be clear about something, because it may be important: Paranoia voted me on a "why the hell not", not based on discussion, because up to this point I have been reading but not really involved in the collar discussion. He did also say he didn't like the Walls Of Text, but that was a separate issue. I'm not happy with Ed's, or Paranoia's, play, but I'm not sure Jan should be lumped in with them. Yet.
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Post by Paranoia on Nov 19, 2011 13:25:55 GMT -5
It's not just you. It's also Paranoia, and Silver Jan, who both voted on the basis of "hey, why are we talking about this?" To be clear about something, because it may be important: Paranoia voted me on a "why the hell not", not based on discussion, because up to this point I have been reading but not really involved in the collar discussion. He did also say he didn't like the Walls Of Text, but that was a separate issue. I'm not happy with Ed's, or Paranoia's, play, but I'm not sure Jan should be lumped in with them. Yet. Interesting. Why aren't you happy with our play?
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Post by Paranoia on Nov 19, 2011 13:36:40 GMT -5
Storyteller - it's mostly personal preference really. I feel as if I don't get as much information out of theory nattery when I don't have the exact working of the mechanics in front of me.
If this were like an open setup I'd feel it'd be prudent to discuss the best course of actions but with something that I personally have no idea how it works I am just going to focus on what I find helps me get a handle on things.
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Post by Caerie on Nov 19, 2011 15:17:32 GMT -5
I would like to think that the Red Team and Blue Team are tied together, meaning that to one collar is a red member and one is a blue member. If two blue were tied together and one was lynched, it would be a hard hit to town, I guess as well to the Scum team as well. We don't know how many scum there are, but since the game would be very strange and quickly over if they were an even number with blue, I think there have to be blue/blue ties. If there are fewer of the Red Team than Blue Team, then some of the blue are tied together. No way around that.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 19, 2011 18:11:34 GMT -5
Paranoia: Exactly what Storyteller was talking about, to a point: generally speaking, I don't like comments that smack of trying to shut down discussion about anything. (which your Wall of Text comment could be read as.)
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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 19, 2011 20:52:10 GMT -5
For me, I see little point in discussing possibilities when we have no way of knowing which possibilities are likelier than others. I understand and approve of the idea that it gives scum a chance to flub but I sometimes fear, and I think this is why people make comments about avoiding some topics, that it may also result in town power roles accidentally revealing extra knowledge.
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Post by special on Nov 19, 2011 20:55:24 GMT -5
The "shushing" could be interpreted as someone trying to prevent PIS leaking? PIS? Please explain.... Along the same lines as the potential severing power, it would be interesting if there happened to be a power out there who could investigate someone and find out who they are linked to. I wish we knew beforehand the name of the person we were linked to, or even better if that person is town (preference) or scum (not for me) If you are Town, you should want to be linked to a scum player. That way you can take that person out if you are killed.
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Post by special on Nov 19, 2011 20:56:50 GMT -5
Every time I have played a game where there is some mechanical device it is always discussed in Day 1, there is nothing abnormal about discussing what the possibilities are with such devices. Now having said that, one has to keep in mind that everything is all speculation, unless you know what happens... For those of us that don't, the only real way to know is to go through one cycle to see. I would like to think that the Red Team and Blue Team are tied together, meaning that to one collar is a red member and one is a blue member. If two blue were tied together and one was lynched, it would be a hard hit to town, I guess as well to the Scum team as well. and then the game ends when everyone is dead?
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Post by special on Nov 19, 2011 20:58:11 GMT -5
For me, I see little point in discussing possibilities when we have no way of knowing which possibilities are likelier than others. I understand and approve of the idea that it gives scum a chance to flub but I sometimes fear, and I think this is why people make comments about avoiding some topics, that it may also result in town power roles accidentally revealing extra knowledge. anti-Bah!
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Nov 19, 2011 21:20:36 GMT -5
Every time I have played a game where there is some mechanical device it is always discussed in Day 1, there is nothing abnormal about discussing what the possibilities are with such devices. Now having said that, one has to keep in mind that everything is all speculation, unless you know what happens... For those of us that don't, the only real way to know is to go through one cycle to see. I would like to think that the Red Team and Blue Team are tied together, meaning that to one collar is a red member and one is a blue member. If two blue were tied together and one was lynched, it would be a hard hit to town, I guess as well to the Scum team as well. and then the game ends when everyone is dead? No! I never said that I thought that scum had the same amount of players as town does. But, if town are collared with other town, then losing 2 towns on a mislynch and nk's hurts.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 19, 2011 22:56:03 GMT -5
No, it just means you have to rethink how you process the game. If there are 4 scum, each one linked to a town player, then there are 16 town players linked to each other, making each pair functionally equivalent to one town player for death statistics. So while there are, what 24? players, really it would be 12 town vs 4 scum.
Now you're just fucking with me, Ed.
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 20, 2011 1:30:57 GMT -5
I'm thinking that either gadgets are going to come into play and shed light on things (like show who is connected to who, disconnecting the invisible connecting threads)
I had this theory as I was driving home, what if the night kills just take out one person by killing them without setting off the wedlock collar? I feel like we must have an out (or several) in order to avoid double lynches every Day and Night.
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 20, 2011 1:34:19 GMT -5
NETA- I'm thinking that gadgets are going to come into play and shed light on things (like show who is connected to who, disconnecting the invisible connecting threads), and maybe be the tipping point of the game?
(editing from the last post, had a thought about two actions but then realized that I put both in the parenthesis)
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Post by moodymitchy on Nov 20, 2011 1:35:11 GMT -5
@Inner Stickler
It's Day 1.... unless TOWN powers had any actions they could use on what was a pretty short Night 0.... then I doubt very much that they'd have any information that other TOWN players don't have.
So I feel it unlikely that a TOWN player would make a slip on Day 1 in this game with regards to knowledge that others might not have.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 20, 2011 1:42:32 GMT -5
I would guess that it's highly likely there are roles out that can affect the wedlock collars. The danger is that scum are working together and town is all flying solo. So if a town power role posits some role or significance to something, town probably won't figure it out until later while scum may recognize it for what it is because they can collaborate and share info. Especially if the posited power is one that scum know exists or can conclude exists from their own power role setup. (For example, if scum have a player who cannot be tailed if they make the night kill, scum can reasonably assume that town has a tracker.) If a player offers up a scenario that relies on X ability and scum are pretty sure that X exists, that player is going to be high on their target list. So until we have at least a lynch under our belt, our power roles are best served by not making much if any speculation and those who are not power roles should not speculate too much either so as to provide cover for the power roles.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 20, 2011 1:43:42 GMT -5
@ Inner SticklerIt's Day 1.... unless TOWN powers had any actions they could use on what was a pretty short Night 0.... then I doubt very much that they'd have any information that other TOWN players don't have. So I feel it unlikely that a TOWN player would make a slip on Day 1 in this game with regards to knowledge that others might not have. They have their role PM which may shed more light on the nature of the wedlock collars or other as yet undiscovered aspects of the game.
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 20, 2011 1:48:13 GMT -5
I would guess that it's highly likely there are roles out that can affect the wedlock collars. The danger is that scum are working together and town is all flying solo. So if a town power role posits some role or significance to something, town probably won't figure it out until later while scum may recognize it for what it is because they can collaborate and share info. Especially if the posited power is one that scum know exists or can conclude exists from their own power role setup. (For example, if scum have a player who cannot be tailed if they make the night kill, scum can reasonably assume that town has a tracker.) If a player offers up a scenario that relies on X ability and scum are pretty sure that X exists, that player is going to be high on their target list. So until we have at least a lynch under our belt, our power roles are best served by not making much if any speculation and those who are not power roles should not speculate too much either so as to provide cover for the power roles. So are you saying that scum should speculate for us? Or that we shouldn't think for ourselves?
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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 20, 2011 2:08:45 GMT -5
Sigh...
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 20, 2011 2:25:59 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, Inner, about town power roles not exposing themselves for an potential lynch. But at the same time, encouraging them not to participate doesn't exactly seem to help the cause of trying to generate discussion...
Also, discouraging the vanilla town to not speculate either to cover up power town....
I'm sorry, but this thought of yours makes no sense to me, Inner.
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Post by special on Nov 20, 2011 3:24:58 GMT -5
@ Inner SticklerIt's Day 1.... unless TOWN powers had any actions they could use on what was a pretty short Night 0.... then I doubt very much that they'd have any information that other TOWN players don't have. So I feel it unlikely that a TOWN player would make a slip on Day 1 in this game with regards to knowledge that others might not have. Bah! Some Town, by virtue of their power, might have information that allows them to make more educated guesses as to how the game might proceed. Revealing that information is quite possible and has happened in the past.
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Post by special on Nov 20, 2011 3:25:55 GMT -5
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Post by special on Nov 20, 2011 3:28:47 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, Inner, about town power roles not exposing themselves for an potential lynch. But at the same time, encouraging them not to participate doesn't exactly seem to help the cause of trying to generate discussion... Also, discouraging the vanilla town to not speculate either to cover up power town.... I'm sorry, but this thought of yours makes no sense to me, Inner. I agree with IS *sigh* It's not a matter of discouraging speculation. it's all about making sure that while speculating, not giving up the fact that you may or may not know something. Are you good enough to do that? Are you even aware of what it might entail? Do you see why it is important?
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Post by deon on Nov 20, 2011 6:24:47 GMT -5
With all the speculation on the roles and the way the collars are connected, I do hope that there is at least one red-red collar to eliminate, and if we can get that one, first day, it will surely be good for us to learn how it works exactly, without loosing blue team members :-)
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Post by deon on Nov 20, 2011 6:55:47 GMT -5
Players. 1. Sister Coyote 2. BillMc 3. Special Ed 4. scathach 5. moodymitchy 6. mahaloth 7. deni 8. colby11 9. Silver Jan 10. Guiri 11. JustBeingGinger 12. GnarlyCharlie 13. deon 14. Inner Stickler 15. sinjin 16. storyteller 17. Drain Bead 18. Caerie 19. Pollux Oil 20. Archangel 21. Lightfoot 22. PWIAG 23. paranoia 24. sachertorte
Sum players has yet to check in on day one of the game
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