|
Post by wombat99 on Sept 23, 2012 8:00:55 GMT -5
KidV, the rules state that the winning bidder of the Mercenary services will be notified at Dawn of the next Day. So if you did not get notified that you won, someone else bid higher. Did you win or not? You claim you took a risk and bid high; now if you need votes to move to save you, give us a reason to do so.
And, we don't know if Mahaloth or Pleo have hidden merc votes. I can't tell if you're genuinely concerned about being lynched, or are just trying to make sure that it's Mahaloth who is lynched instead of Pleo.
Re: Mahaloth - question to those who are unvoting him (Parzival, Crys): Why does the fact that he is now saying he won't NK make you feel better? There is no way to know if he NKs someone or not, unless he is watched/tracked.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 8:13:40 GMT -5
<FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> Guiri, I didn't feel that a bid of less than half the players in the game was unreasonable. Could you help me understand what you think the amount that I bid has to do with my motives for hiring the Mercenary? He can do more than kill, you know. I didn't say it was unreasonable, I questioned your assertion that most D1 lynches are runaway bandwagons. I think a bid of 12 was reckless but if you were willing to risk needing to claim in order to save yourself from the lynch, you must have had strong motivation to hire the mecenary. Scum, or any group of collaborating players, can confidently bid higher than players operating on their own - a couple of extra votes on a bandwagon, especially when there's no visible attempt to save another player, can go unnoticed. Controlling the mercenary brings benefit and could greatly increase the information gap between scum and town. Kill? We only know that the mercenary can do a light protection or a light investigation, no mention of kills. Are you now claiming to be an unknown entity in control of at least one kill? Wouldn't you find that suspicious? What other actions does the mercenary offer? Are there any know side effects? Would it be in Town's best interest to ensure we win the mercenary every Night from now on (by agreeing on a quorum, assigning the power to a specific player each Day, deciding the action to be used, and lynching anyone who outbids the official bidder or votes beyond the quorum, for example)? But you've made a point in my defense, here... Were I scum, wouldn't it stand to reason that I'd be relying on my teammates to save me instead of revealing that I have a powerful Night action at my disposal and making a general plea for mercy? I could be 3rd party (I'm not, I am Town), but even if I were, I feel that I'm not as viable a lynch as Pleo, who claimed for an odd reason and could confirm himself but won't, or Mahaloth, who claimed for an odd reason and has an odd PM and really really wants to kill someone Tonight... Regarding your other questions, I'm willing to offer information as a demonstration of good faith. I don't think it hurts me or Town to reveal the PM I received after winning the Mercenary auction. What I don't know is exactly what bid threshold gets you where on that list, or if there's something above Wetwork (!!!) should a player bid higher. I have some specific questions into Pollux right now about the details of a couple of those mechanics - if I think the answers to those questions should be public knowledge I'll reveal them too. Also, I'm totally going to steal the Mercenary gimmick for the next game I run, but I'm going to make it a public auction.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 8:18:18 GMT -5
KidV, the rules state that the winning bidder of the Mercenary services will be notified at Dawn of the next Day. So if you did not get notified that you won, someone else bid higher. Did you win or not? You claim you took a risk and bid high; now if you need votes to move to save you, give us a reason to do so. And, we don't know if Mahaloth or Pleo have hidden merc votes. I can't tell if you're genuinely concerned about being lynched, or are just trying to make sure that it's Mahaloth who is lynched instead of Pleo. Re: Mahaloth - question to those who are unvoting him ( Parzival, Crys): Why does the fact that he is now saying he won't NK make you feel better? There is no way to know if he NKs someone or not, unless he is watched/tracked. I won, there's no question. And to my understanding, nobody who bid lower is stuck with their votes - just like any auction, you only pay if you win. And I am genuinely concerned with being lynched, believe me . In terms of why you should save me, it'd be because you find another player more likely to be scum than I, it's that simple. I apologize that I'm forcing the hands of those of you that would rather sit back and see how the Mahaloth/Pleo thing plays out, but I don't have a choice. At this point, if you're not voting for somebody with the potential to gather more votes than me, then you're voting to lynch me, and so I'm asking you to decide if you think that's a good lynch.
|
|
|
Post by wombat99 on Sept 23, 2012 8:47:11 GMT -5
I won, there's no question. And to my understanding, nobody who bid lower is stuck with their votes - just like any auction, you only pay if you win. Yes. That's right. Ok. Vote: Mahaloth Mahaloth, I don't think your PM is completely truthful (or possibly it's a cover role) and the insistence on the Night1 kill, then later taking it back, makes no sense. I don't believe it is just poor play, either. I wish we knew your real motivation for claiming, and really part of me would prefer to leave all of the bizaare claims (yours, Pleo's and peeker's) alone Today to see what happens Night1. But, I'll go along with this to save KidV.
|
|
|
Post by wombat99 on Sept 23, 2012 9:00:06 GMT -5
KidV, can you share which mercenary action are you planning on requesting Tonight? (not specific players, but are you planning on a kill or an investigation, for example?)
|
|
|
Post by crys on Sept 23, 2012 9:08:54 GMT -5
KidV, the rules state that the winning bidder of the Mercenary services will be notified at Dawn of the next Day. So if you did not get notified that you won, someone else bid higher. Did you win or not? You claim you took a risk and bid high; now if you need votes to move to save you, give us a reason to do so. And, we don't know if Mahaloth or Pleo have hidden merc votes. I can't tell if you're genuinely concerned about being lynched, or are just trying to make sure that it's Mahaloth who is lynched instead of Pleo. Re: Mahaloth - question to those who are unvoting him ( Parzival, Crys): Why does the fact that he is now saying he won't NK make you feel better? There is no way to know if he NKs someone or not, unless he is watched/tracked. It is quite simple. I am taking him at his word. Just like I would take you at yours if you were in his shoes. Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards
|
|
|
Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 23, 2012 9:14:53 GMT -5
Placeholder so I can see how far I've read up to.
Interesting things, KidV. Could be worth risking one's own death to make sure such powers are used for town, particularly if you don't have a superior power of your own.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 9:32:18 GMT -5
KidV, can you share which mercenary action are you planning on requesting Tonight? (not specific players, but are you planning on a kill or an investigation, for example?) I'd prefer to leave a little Wifom on the table for devious ne'er-do-wells that may wish to prevent me from doing an investigation. I hope you understand. I won't be killing anybody unless I see a really good reason, if that's what you're asking, and I don't currently see a good reason.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 9:33:22 GMT -5
Placeholder so I can see how far I've read up to. Interesting things, KidV. Could be worth risking one's own death to make sure such powers are used for town, particularly if you don't have a superior power of your own. You lost me. Are you suggesting I go quietly to the noose?
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 9:34:32 GMT -5
It is quite simple. I am taking him at his word. Just like I would take you at yours if you were in his shoes. Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards That's dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2012 9:41:04 GMT -5
Can't quote properly. KidV What about Pleo? Your 180 makes a little less sense knowing you have a chance to kill him toNight. I think he meant risking one's life (with a high bid) would be worth it to get one's hands on those powers and ensure they stay with Town. Now we know what the Mercenary can do, I agree and think we should find a way to ensure we don't lose control.
|
|
|
Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2012 9:42:57 GMT -5
Can't quote properly. KidV What about Pleo? Your 180 makes a little less sense knowing you have a chance to kill him toNight. I think he meant risking one's life (with a high bid) would be worth it to get one's hands on those powers and ensure they stay with Town. Now we know what the Mercenary can do, I agree and think we should find a way to ensure we don't lose control.
|
|
|
Post by crys on Sept 23, 2012 9:43:09 GMT -5
It is quite simple. I am taking him at his word. Just like I would take you at yours if you were in his shoes. Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards That's dangerous. It is also dangerous to accept you at your word, however at least one person has done that.
|
|
|
Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 23, 2012 9:48:42 GMT -5
Correct, Bill. Guiri, I didn't feel that a bid of less than half the players in the game was unreasonable. Could you help me understand what you think the amount that I bid has to do with my motives for hiring the Mercenary? He can do more than kill, you know. As for why anyone should save me, I'll leave that up to individual voters. I see a guy who has claimed 3rd party with the ability to confirm himself as non-hostile that he's decided not to use, I see another guy who has claimed 3rd party with PM that appears to be edited, and I see me. The guy that hired the Mercenary. I know folks are jumpy Day One, and maybe if we have different definitions of risk my bid might seem high to you, and thus suspicious. But does that make me any more suspicious than anybody else? I'm sorry, but I find this funny. As of this moment, from my perspective, you are the 2nd most likely candidate to be Scum due to your "killing people" quip. Sure, it probably means nothing, but this is Day One and by Day One standards it is not nothing. I do not (currently) plan to unvote Mahaloth, but I've been wondering where to put my second vote. Still a lot of reading to do.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 9:55:37 GMT -5
Can't quote properly. KidV What about Pleo? Your 180 makes a little less sense knowing you have a chance to kill him toNight. I think he meant risking one's life (with a high bid) would be worth it to get one's hands on those powers and ensure they stay with Town. Now we know what the Mercenary can do, I agree and think we should find a way to ensure we don't lose control. My 180 makes less sense? You lost me. I'm not planning on killing Pleo because I think there's better things to do with the Merc tonight - namely investigating somebody or protecting myself and hopefully preventing a scum kill. Re: Pizza, that makes sense, thanks. I've been up all night and may be fuzzier than I thought.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 10:00:08 GMT -5
That's dangerous. It is also dangerous to accept you at your word, however at least one person has done that. I don't think they have - if you're referring to Wombat, she's not trusting anything I have to say in the slightest... indeed, I haven't asserted anything claim-wise for her to trust. She looked at which she thought was scummier among the choices presented and made a decision. That's a far different thing than taking somebody at their word. I'm in no position to be antagonistic here, but I'd argue that very few of us are likely to be in a position where we should be trusting anybody else solely on their word, no?
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 10:01:55 GMT -5
Correct, Bill. Guiri, I didn't feel that a bid of less than half the players in the game was unreasonable. Could you help me understand what you think the amount that I bid has to do with my motives for hiring the Mercenary? He can do more than kill, you know. As for why anyone should save me, I'll leave that up to individual voters. I see a guy who has claimed 3rd party with the ability to confirm himself as non-hostile that he's decided not to use, I see another guy who has claimed 3rd party with PM that appears to be edited, and I see me. The guy that hired the Mercenary. I know folks are jumpy Day One, and maybe if we have different definitions of risk my bid might seem high to you, and thus suspicious. But does that make me any more suspicious than anybody else? I'm sorry, but I find this funny. As of this moment, from my perspective, you are the 2nd most likely candidate to be Scum due to your "killing people" quip. Sure, it probably means nothing, but this is Day One and by Day One standards it is not nothing. I do not (currently) plan to unvote Mahaloth, but I've been wondering where to put my second vote. Still a lot of reading to do. You really think that's a scumtell? I have no way to disabuse you of the notion I guess, but it strikes me that this game is all about "killing" people... would you be as bothered if I'd said "lynching" instead? Is is the choice of words that bothers you or the bloodthirsty attitude?
|
|
|
Post by crys on Sept 23, 2012 10:19:01 GMT -5
It is also dangerous to accept you at your word, however at least one person has done that. I don't think they have - if you're referring to Wombat, she's not trusting anything I have to say in the slightest... indeed, I haven't asserted anything claim-wise for her to trust. She looked at which she thought was scummier among the choices presented and made a decision. That's a far different thing than taking somebody at their word. I'm in no position to be antagonistic here, but I'd argue that very few of us are likely to be in a position where we should be trusting anybody else solely on their word, no? Maybe not, but I always try and see the good in people and it has been my undoing several times in real life and will probably be my undoing several times in the mafia world.
|
|
|
Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 23, 2012 10:30:08 GMT -5
You really think that's a scumtell? I have no way to disabuse you of the notion I guess, but it strikes me that this game is all about "killing" people... would you be as bothered if I'd said "lynching" instead? Is is the choice of words that bothers you or the bloodthirsty attitude? Yes, it is the choice of words. I believe the same slip cost a Scum her life in Marathon. "Killing" instead of "Lynching" was the tell there. (I remember thinking when it was pointed out "That's ridiculous .") You've added the additional slip of "People" instead of "Scum". Oddly, you could have claimed that you had already submitted a high bid for the Mercenary at that point and expected to be able to kill (as opposed to lynch), but you have already undercut that by saying you expected to use the Merc for something less than killing. We should all keep in mind that everything you are telling us amounts to forced claims. I'm keeping an open mind.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2012 11:08:26 GMT -5
I don't get how we get there from here. That is, assume for argument that we need to "save" KidV. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, but trying to make a point;
How would we go about that?
12 votes is a very high number. The only way to get natural votes that high, is if the voters were certain of their votes. -Someone makes a claim that is clearly anti-town. And that still doesn't address those that are inactive. Pleonast stated he was going to be inactive.....
I don't know that it happens, on day one, or in a gastard game. Both make it a very tall order.
And if you are lying, does that mean we vote you tomorrow, assuming you seeing day 2 somehow? That the votes were not were they needed to be, natural or bided votes?
I still wonder if their is a role that can see the bidded vote total and can play with them.
I don't see how KidV survives.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2012 11:15:59 GMT -5
I am of the assumption that the player who wins the merc is NOT the merc. That we can not kill the merc by voting someone who hired the merc and having the hiring player lynched. Correct?
There was a comment (perhaps a question) pondering that if the merc is an actual player, as implied, can they vote to retain themselves. I don't believe I saw answer on this.
|
|
Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Parzival on Sept 23, 2012 11:27:21 GMT -5
Re: Mahaloth - question to those who are unvoting him ( Parzival, Crys): Why does the fact that he is now saying he won't NK make you feel better? There is no way to know if he NKs someone or not, unless he is watched/tracked. My unvote is based on the conditional that if he's telling the truth (partly or mostly) about his role, then he's likely going to back off from the vig kill in good faith too. No I still don't trust him entirely, but my guess is there's a decent chance he is what he says. Taken at his word, he was definitely a threat; now that is less likely in some way, even if not entirely. It's a close call, and given what's going on with KidV I even consider putting him back up. The problem I have, KidV, is that such a high bid Day 1 seems as likely to me to be a scum gamble as it is to be a townie move. Maybe not even odds, but I think that since the scum can win the merc, and have a built-in voting bloc to try to run a wagon, it's a risk they might take, early on. Especially to reveal the tiers and find out what it can do. The question is whether I think you're scum otherwise. You did reveal the merc tiers, which seems a pro-town play. On the other hand it seems that might have only happened because of your previous mention of 'more than kill'. (As an aside, I don't find the 'killing people' line problematic. To me it seems more like a glib early-game statement. A bit too on-the-nose for scum; if it's a scum or other killing role, it's only a tell by double fakery.) So no vote yet, but I'm going to be looking closely at KidVermicious.
|
|
|
Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 23, 2012 11:33:16 GMT -5
I don't get how we get there from here. That is, assume for argument that we need to "save" KidV. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, but trying to make a point; How would we go about that? 12 votes is a very high number. The only way to get natural votes that high, is if the voters were certain of their votes. -Someone makes a claim that is clearly anti-town. And that still doesn't address those that are inactive. Pleonast stated he was going to be inactive..... I don't know that it happens, on day one, or in a gastard game. Both make it a very tall order. And if you are lying, does that mean we vote you tomorrow, assuming you seeing day 2 somehow? That the votes were not were they needed to be, natural or bided votes? I still wonder if their is a role that can see the bidded vote total and can play with them. I don't see how KidV survives. " And if you are lying." Geez, I wonder how long I have to play this game before I learn to read EVERYTHING skeptically? "But wait!" What if KidV did not bid 12 votes for the merc. This is all a ploy to ensure that Mahaloth gets lynched? (or Pleo? hard to see that working at this point...) I have no clue as to his motivation, but given the number of roles who can say? For all intents and purposes, all of the roles are unknown since Pollux almost certainly made changes to the requested roles. Play mafia, go down the rabbit hole. Ha!
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 11:54:14 GMT -5
That doesn't make any sense, Meeko. One more vote on Mahaloth puts him ahead of me in the vote count, and then he'll have the tiebreaker and 2 unvotes would be needed to put me back in the lead. I don't understand how you don't understand how to get there from here.
You could make that happen right now. You've made your point regarding Stickler, but he's not going to be lynched Today and your vote is worthless down there. You COULD move it to Mahaloth. Do you think I'm scummier than Mahaloth? Is there more to distrust in my play and what I've revealed than in his play and what he's revealed?
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 11:58:44 GMT -5
I don't get how we get there from here. That is, assume for argument that we need to "save" KidV. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, but trying to make a point; How would we go about that? 12 votes is a very high number. The only way to get natural votes that high, is if the voters were certain of their votes. -Someone makes a claim that is clearly anti-town. And that still doesn't address those that are inactive. Pleonast stated he was going to be inactive..... I don't know that it happens, on day one, or in a gastard game. Both make it a very tall order. And if you are lying, does that mean we vote you tomorrow, assuming you seeing day 2 somehow? That the votes were not were they needed to be, natural or bided votes? I still wonder if their is a role that can see the bidded vote total and can play with them. I don't see how KidV survives. " And if you are lying." Geez, I wonder how long I have to play this game before I learn to read EVERYTHING skeptically? "But wait!" What if KidV did not bid 12 votes for the merc. This is all a ploy to ensure that Mahaloth gets lynched? (or Pleo? hard to see that working at this point...) I have no clue as to his motivation, but given the number of roles who can say? For all intents and purposes, all of the roles are unknown since Pollux almost certainly made changes to the requested roles. Play mafia, go down the rabbit hole. Ha! You take the RED pill ... This is not a ploy to get Mahaloth lynched per se, just a ploy to get me NOT lynched. When I spoke up, Mahaloth was still well in the lead in the vote count. He just wasn't looking as likely to get the 14 votes needed to be lynched over me, hence my plea. I could have kept silent and Mahaloth would have ended the day with the most votes from players, I'm quite sure. You've already heard from... Guiri? I forget who it was, but somebody already announced they bid 10 and didn't get the merc, so if I'm lying, somebody else out there has at least 11 votes on them and they haven't spoken up yet, not to save themselves and not to call me a liar. What are the odds of that, do you think?
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Sept 23, 2012 12:20:12 GMT -5
You really think that's a scumtell? I have no way to disabuse you of the notion I guess, but it strikes me that this game is all about "killing" people... would you be as bothered if I'd said "lynching" instead? Is is the choice of words that bothers you or the bloodthirsty attitude? Yes, it is the choice of words. I believe the same slip cost a Scum her life in Marathon. "Killing" instead of "Lynching" was the tell there. (I remember thinking when it was pointed out "That's ridiculous .") You've added the additional slip of "People" instead of "Scum". Oddly, you could have claimed that you had already submitted a high bid for the Mercenary at that point and expected to be able to kill (as opposed to lynch), but you have already undercut that by saying you expected to use the Merc for something less than killing. We should all keep in mind that everything you are telling us amounts to forced claims. I'm keeping an open mind. I'm the one that died early because I used the word 'kill' I don't think anything else I'd done that early in game was Scummy but it was attacked like a dog bone. ( the comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek even)
|
|
|
Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 23, 2012 13:06:14 GMT -5
<snip> You've already heard from... Guiri? I forget who it was, but somebody already announced they bid 10 and didn't get the merc, so if I'm lying, somebody else out there has at least 11 votes on them and they haven't spoken up yet, not to save themselves and not to call me a liar. What are the odds of that, do you think? Excellent point. I can see the rabbit hole is deeper still, but I choose not to go down there. I accept that you (foolishly) bid 12 and are now trying to avoid being lynched. What Lightfoot does not say just above is that she was Scum. That silly little tongue in cheek comment (from an experienced player) cost Scum a life. So I retain consideration of that data point about you. Still plenty to re-read.
|
|
|
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 23, 2012 13:10:56 GMT -5
Fair enough. I'd contend that one datapoint is insufficient evidence, but carry on.
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Sept 23, 2012 13:44:46 GMT -5
<snip> You've already heard from... Guiri? I forget who it was, but somebody already announced they bid 10 and didn't get the merc, so if I'm lying, somebody else out there has at least 11 votes on them and they haven't spoken up yet, not to save themselves and not to call me a liar. What are the odds of that, do you think? Excellent point. I can see the rabbit hole is deeper still, but I choose not to go down there. I accept that you (foolishly) bid 12 and are now trying to avoid being lynched. What Lightfoot does not say just above is that she was Scum. That silly little tongue in cheek comment (from an experienced player) cost Scum a life. So I retain consideration of that data point about you. Still plenty to re-read. nothing of nothing I suppose but the more " experienced " laugh I become the more I seem to play tongue in cheek- even smart assed at times. It makes the game more fun for me Werewolf or Villager- It's still a game. ( and I thought it was understood - implied- that I was indeed Scum in the previously mentioned game ) Now on to this one- oops will be later since I've a knock on me door
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 23, 2012 14:13:13 GMT -5
<snip> You've already heard from... Guiri? I forget who it was, but somebody already announced they bid 10 and didn't get the merc, so if I'm lying, somebody else out there has at least 11 votes on them and they haven't spoken up yet, not to save themselves and not to call me a liar. What are the odds of that, do you think? Excellent point. I can see the rabbit hole is deeper still, but I choose not to go down there. I accept that you (foolishly) bid 12 and are now trying to avoid being lynched. What Lightfoot does not say just above is that she was Scum. That silly little tongue in cheek comment (from an experienced player) cost Scum a life. So I retain consideration of that data point about you. Still plenty to re-read. It sounds like the Town got lucky to me.
|
|