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Post by peekercpa on Sept 18, 2012 12:56:43 GMT -5
but i absolutely disagree with this. it is relatively easy to manipulate a pm and put in N-O-N in front of hostile. now albeit if you take the rest of the pm at face value he does seem harmless. and personally i kind of try to lynch non townies. sure getting scum is the best outcome but if you have one person that gets out of the crowd and says i am not you but trust me i am no threat just aim into that other crowd over there makes me go hmmm. You can go hmm all you want but if pleo dies and flips nonhostile, I will be raking the hmmers over the coals looking for scummy centers. and this is a fair observation. but if he is really non hostile scum don't want him dead either. keep him in the pool and he just creates an additional target.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 18, 2012 12:59:17 GMT -5
Assume that Pleo's claim is false. He's designed his false claim to buy time - 3 Days. If he has a killing role, he could do a lot of damage in three Days. I don't think I like the idea of just leaving him alone and saying, "have at it, you're off the hook until Day 3." If his goal was to buy time, he'd have not claimed at all. This may be true from a strictly strategic point of view, but one must also take into account that Pleo has said he claims early because it is more fun for him. He clearly has a firm grasp of WIFOM and I bet he could argue either side of any Mafia question with compelling force (or at least what at first appears to be compelling force). (I wonder if he is an attorney in real life). It is clear to me that he delights in this ability and I would not be surprised if he deliberately sets up challenges to that ability. In Marathon he worked hard to see to it that his "game within the game" did not harm his team, and I suspect that to be true in this game, also. I just do not believe that his motivations are strictly "in the game" motivations.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 18, 2012 13:04:18 GMT -5
So, after reading the Day so far, twice, I have to agree with the observation that Pleo's claim has dominated conversation. But What else shall we talk about? Peeker's confirmed name and what that might mean?
Or how much we should trust of what we know? The mod has said he won't lie to us.
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 18, 2012 13:04:20 GMT -5
The way he proposes to play his role won’t advance his supposed win-con in the first 3 Days I don't believe Pleo as proposed this, unless you're referring surviving to be a conscious act of advancing one's win condition. Pleo is of course free to speak for himself but I think it is more likely that Pleo has proposed that he will try and demonstrate his power as a means to confirm at least some of his claim, which, as others are anxious about, doesn't apparently have much to do with his claimed win condition. SNIPPED ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Anyway, unless I hear an overwhelming number of players disagreeing, I'm going to be using my powers to confirm myself. So, I'm going to be posting the minimal number of posts to enable that. If need be, I'll post my responses to the Day at Night, when the number of posts don't matter. His win-con- Or did I miss understand your post? on preview I might have but I'll post this anyway.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 18, 2012 13:07:07 GMT -5
ok i've decidead i like this rich fellow. he seems to be a touch more lucid that the rest of the folks and he makes appropriate comments in a reasonable volume.
i would caution, however, about the "game within the game" thing that can easily be manipulated by someone of pleo's caliber.
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Post by wombat99 on Sept 18, 2012 13:09:25 GMT -5
So, after reading the Day so far, twice, I have to agree with the observation that Pleo's claim has dominated conversation. But What else shall we talk about? Peeker's confirmed name and what that might mean? Or how much we should trust of what we know? The mod has said he won't lie to us. How about ATPG? After all of the yea, verily's and apocalyptic horsemen and whatnot Night0... nothing so far Today?
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 18, 2012 13:18:04 GMT -5
ok i've decidead i like this rich fellow. he seems to be a touch more lucid that the rest of the folks and he makes appropriate comments in a reasonable volume. Thanks. i would caution, however, about the "game within the game" thing that can easily be manipulated by someone of pleo's caliber. I read this to mean "We should not make too much of Pleo's 'game within the game' (assuming it exists)." Maybe. Maybe not. (I assume if I am misreading you will tell me). My principle point that I think is valid, is that we should not discount theories of Pleo based on lack of game motivation.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Sept 18, 2012 13:34:44 GMT -5
I'm also supes suspicious of anyone strongly advocating for lynching pleo because a nonhostile lynch is a mislynch and it's relatively easy for scum to get town to mislynch a claimed nonhostile. but i absolutely disagree with this. it is relatively easy to manipulate a pm and put in N-O-N in front of hostile. now albeit if you take the rest of the pm at face value he does seem harmless. and personally i kind of try to lynch non townies. sure getting scum is the best outcome but if you have one person that gets out of the crowd and says i am not you but trust me i am no threat just aim into that other crowd over there makes me go hmmm. well those who say Pleo's claim is dubious should say what exactly they have a problem with. if it's just he might be hostile and the rest of his claim is true, i don't buy that. it doesn't make sense that a game-ending wincon has the requirements he says he has. so if he changed his PM, it was more than just putting a "non" before "hostile." if he were lying we can test his claim. i'm sure he'd share his results. interestingly enough, the ones who have tried to explain whythey don't believe him haven't voted for hin and those who have voted for him barely explained why. i too am suspicious of them. all in all, if he's scum that would be a pretty convulated strategy. if he's hostile third party, drawing attention to yourself is a poor way to buy time to achieve his wincon. it also invites investigations. i'm willing to give him rope to hang himself.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 13:38:16 GMT -5
I don't believe Pleo as proposed this, unless you're referring surviving to be a conscious act of advancing one's win condition. Pleo is of course free to speak for himself but I think it is more likely that Pleo has proposed that he will try and demonstrate his power as a means to confirm at least some of his claim, which, as others are anxious about, doesn't apparently have much to do with his claimed win condition. His win-con- Or did I miss understand your post? on preview I might have but I'll post this anyway. I misread your post that I quoted. I was reading your 'won't' and 'would'.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 13:38:35 GMT -5
and = as
grr
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 18, 2012 13:42:17 GMT -5
So, after reading the Day so far, twice, I have to agree with the observation that Pleo's claim has dominated conversation. But What else shall we talk about? Peeker's confirmed name and what that might mean? Or how much we should trust of what we know? The mod has said he won't lie to us. How about ATPG? After all of the yea, verily's and apocalyptic horsemen and whatnot Night0... nothing so far Today? The black clouds of night bleed red with the blood of the innocent, but verily will I oppose those who shall do them wrong, for I am a wizard and you will not touch my magic bag! AND NONE SHALL PASS!!! Know that this Anti-lurker will be purified by the divine test, and I shall be the bait. Reckless and righteous, I fear no man, and no WOMBATS. Gravy! Charlie Horse!
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 18, 2012 13:44:27 GMT -5
Nevermind that, it means nothing. What I meant to say was-
Beware of the SNAKE, for it CONSUMES us all!
MAGICAL powers ARE our SALVATION!!!
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 18, 2012 13:45:32 GMT -5
Also, this lynch of Pleonast is crazier than I am.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 13:48:02 GMT -5
And I'd concur up to this point. Then you go off into Woowooland: I see absolutely no compelling reason whatsoever to put any amount of confidence that Pleo's longevity can be used as some sort of litmus test for alignment of our low-volume posters. really? you don't see how a scum team, if pleo is being truthful wouldn't be concerned about a team mate outing. but if the low volumes are all town they can just whistle their ass away. bunny foo foo is town. so we can lynch foo foo and see if pleo was full of turd or we lynch pleo to confirm foo foo. In a word: No. Entirely too many variables and unknowns to make that sort of cause and effect connection.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 18, 2012 13:55:59 GMT -5
Also, this lynch of Pleonast is crazier than I am. Because we don't believe his PM?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 18, 2012 14:03:19 GMT -5
Day 1 Vote CountPleonast (4 votes) - Colby11, sinjin, Meeko, Suburban Plankton peekercpa (1 vote) - Pleonast CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1 vote) - peekercpa With these votes, Pleonast will be lynched.Do we have to place both votes? Is there a penalty if we don't? No. There is no penalty for not using both votes.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 18, 2012 14:15:08 GMT -5
Also, this lynch of Pleonast is crazier than I am. Because we don't believe his PM? I will use my psycho powers to read his mind. Yes.... yess.... There is no fear in Pleonast, only mild irritation. He speaks the truth. As do I.... for I am OMNISCIENT and NO one can deny that! Hamburgers and cottage cheeeese
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 18, 2012 14:24:18 GMT -5
really? you don't see how a scum team, if pleo is being truthful wouldn't be concerned about a team mate outing. but if the low volumes are all town they can just whistle their ass away. bunny foo foo is town. so we can lynch foo foo and see if pleo was full of turd or we lynch pleo to confirm foo foo. In a word: No. Entirely too many variables and unknowns to make that sort of cause and effect connection. I lean towards peeker's take on it. If pleo is being truthfull- Scum have little reason to NK him unless they have members that fall into the low posting category ( 'specially if he'll be considered for lynch every Day ) ~ or did I over simplify the debate?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 14:32:27 GMT -5
That's a fine conclusion to draw. My problem was that Peeker was extending that say that ergo, the Pleo staying alive for a long time would mean that the low-posting players are town. That is the logic that I object to. Primarily because Pleo staying alive would not necessarily mean that no one was trying to kill him. Since those of us without perfect knowledge cannot know if Pleo was attacked or not if he survives, you can't really extrapolate with much confidence downstream from there.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Sept 18, 2012 14:34:03 GMT -5
Because we don't believe his PM? I will use my psycho powers to read his mind. Yes.... yess.... There is no fear in Pleonast, only mild irritation. He speaks the truth. As do I.... for I am OMNISCIENT and NO one can deny that! Hamburgers and cottage cheeeese you're nuttier than usual. makes me think this is role related. if not, carry on.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 18, 2012 14:41:48 GMT -5
Has anyone seen inner? I mean, he is playing this game, right? You ask this in post #142. Inner Stickler posted #s 126, 132, 133, 135, 136, and 138. And that's just on page 5 of Day One. Skimming is a Scum tell (or so I have heard....). Oh, I guess I've been ignoring him.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 18, 2012 14:50:09 GMT -5
If his goal was to buy time, he'd have not claimed at all. This may be true from a strictly strategic point of view, but one must also take into account that Pleo has said he claims early because it is more fun for him. He clearly has a firm grasp of WIFOM and I bet he could argue either side of any Mafia question with compelling force (or at least what at first appears to be compelling force). (I wonder if he is an attorney in real life). It is clear to me that he delights in this ability and I would not be surprised if he deliberately sets up challenges to that ability. In Marathon he worked hard to see to it that his "game within the game" did not harm his team, and I suspect that to be true in this game, also. I just do not believe that his motivations are strictly "in the game" motivations. Why are we rehashing Marathon so much? Pleonast IS FORCING town players to drink wine, apparently every single game he plays. He MIGHT be forcing scum to drink wine every single game. The notion that a Town player, and a Scum player approach Pleonast's Bar with the same thirst is ludicrous. Scum know what Pleo is, and is not. Town do not have this advantage. Hence Town will thirst more for his wine. And that is the only crack at that I will take. If you want me elaborate, the thread to Marathon is over there.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 15:15:44 GMT -5
Scum know what Pleo is, and is not. They do?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 15:17:09 GMT -5
one more time... Scum know what Pleo is, and is not. They do?
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 18, 2012 15:39:01 GMT -5
one more time... Scum know what Pleo is, and is not. They do? ? not so fast- quick draw-meeko Scum could know if he is/isn't Scum but the other bits?
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 18, 2012 15:58:34 GMT -5
That's a fine conclusion to draw. My problem was that Peeker was extending that say that ergo, the Pleo staying alive for a long time would mean that the low-posting players are town. That is the logic that I object to. Primarily because Pleo staying alive would not necessarily mean that no one was trying to kill him. Since those of us without perfect knowledge cannot know if Pleo was attacked or not if he survives, you can't really extrapolate with much confidence downstream from there. seeing I could draw that the low posters would be “not Scum” but perhaps “not Town” either. As to his longevity- he’s claimed no protections But redirectors and blockers could exist. I fell into analyzing it from a Scum leaving him alive perspective. Although there may be other factors at work/play ½ a point to each side! -1/2 point to me
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 18, 2012 16:27:05 GMT -5
That's a fine conclusion to draw. My problem was that Peeker was extending that say that ergo, the Pleo staying alive for a long time would mean that the low-posting players are town. That is the logic that I object to. Primarily because Pleo staying alive would not necessarily mean that no one was trying to kill him. Since those of us without perfect knowledge cannot know if Pleo was attacked or not if he survives, you can't really extrapolate with much confidence downstream from there. but cookies certainly you can see that if all the low posters are not scum what danger would pleo present to them? let him live and what danger does it confront them with? he outs a juicy power role. good for scum. and since his wincon is merely to stay alive (as i read it) for three Days does pleo say i'm not saying shit or does he just go forward trying to entice scum to kill someone not him. matter of fact the more i think about it the more likely that he is a danger to town than scum becomes apparant.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 18, 2012 16:29:46 GMT -5
I'm saying that you can't possibly know that all of the low posters are not scum, whether Pleo lives or not in this little hypothetical, because you can't possibly know that with the information at hand.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 18, 2012 16:30:28 GMT -5
In a word: No. Entirely too many variables and unknowns to make that sort of cause and effect connection. I lean towards peeker's take on it. If pleo is being truthfull- Scum have little reason to NK him unless they have members that fall into the low posting category ( 'specially if he'll be considered for lynch every Day ) ~ or did I over simplify the debate? you hit it dead on from my perspective. but they have every reason to kill him if any of their members fall into the low posting category.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 18, 2012 16:44:43 GMT -5
I'm saying that you can't possibly know that all of the low posters are not scum, whether Pleo lives or not in this little hypothetical, because you can't possibly know that with the information at hand. gd cookies i really like you but you are being a tad obtuse. do scum take a chance that non aligned pleo happens to hit a low volume scum? i know that if i were scum i would wait until N3 or so to grease him. and certainly other powers are most likely in play so i might even suggest a N1 or N2 whacking just to see what happens. but even if he is alive on D4 it really doesn't mean squat as to his intentions (if he hasn't won already). and if he does win that quickly and is still wandering around does he just go around dicking with us? which is in the realm of gastardliness and right in the bastard's wheelhouse.
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