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Post by guiri on Sept 29, 2012 11:47:54 GMT -5
LOL! I thought that was how the game was played. When something does not make sense to me, ask! So that's what I am trying to do. I'm not talking about asking questions when you don't understand something. I’ll vote when I can compose a case instead of just tossing one. Of course when my inquiries are disregarded it makes it a bit more difficult But that's my point, you are not engaging the player with questions, you're asking rhetorical quetions or making comments to the world that seem to insinuate some level of suspicion without making it explicit or accompanying the suspicion with a vote. It's things like these that caught my eye: I found it interesting ? that Pizza didn't seem to be concerned about the origion of his message. I don't recall reading a qualifier about the validity of the message? Interesting? Why not ask him why he's not concerned? Is interesting "fun", "suspicious", or just "curious"? Why is the last bit a question? To whom? What's the point of this post? I understand that if he is not hostile that he is a warm body when heads are counted- but- is it worth it? More commentary, with random questions, you argue that he's no danger but still ask wonder if we should lynch him because he's annoying. Who are you asking? What do you think? If you find him suspicious, vote him. Did he just " guess" there was a door involved? Again, who are you asking? Rhetoric questions no-one will answer? Or are you accusing Suburban of PIS? If so, accuse him. I'm either very impressed or very suspicious that you (seemingly) so easily understood Guiri's toe stub comment. Which is it? What are you doing to help you decide? If it's suspicious, surely that indicates possible scum and is a reason to vote? I was wondering about that. You are the top poster this Night (so far) with 14% of the posts. Day One you ranked 18th (4 way tie) with 2% of the posts. And? You thought it worthwhile to go an calculate this and then interesting enough to post, do you find the change suspicious? What are your thoughts? What were you wondering? If memory serves (in my case always a dubious proposition), in the Marathon game, when Pleo falsely claimed Town Detective, his targets were predominantly lurkers. What a coincidence that his "assigned role" in this game is to do what he falsely claimed to be doing in Marathon. If anyone here from Marathon can confirm or deny my memory, I would appreciate it. Thanks. You sort of suggest Pleo's claim is false because of the conincidence with the previous game but don't come out and say it, and, rather than linking or posting his original claim, or checking for yourself, you ask others to check for you. Why? Don't you want to find scum? Why not make the little effort to check your facts and then come back here and either make an accusation against Pleo or explain why you no longer find it suspicious? Again, "it makes you wonder", "you suppose", you believe that it was an accurate scum tell in the last game, why so much dithering and hesitation now? Still, I expect that voters will at least make a case. guiri, your voting in advance of making a case strikes me as rather strange. Oh, I made my case. I didn't back it up with evidence but I think I made it pretty clear why I was voting for Lightfoot and rich.
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Sept 29, 2012 12:29:50 GMT -5
With all due respect, you are in fact asking us to trust you. Only if you think he's going to be able to pull of some sort of solo win and end the game within the first few Days. I find that highly unlikely. I don't think you have to accept that he will necessarily steal a win in the first few Days. If he's lying, he may just require that time to do something. We can trust him or not as to whether he has Town interests at heart.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 29, 2012 14:37:38 GMT -5
In short, it's not the letter of law claiming that he does, it's the spirit. He acts on the role in a way that WILL ALWAYS BE ANTI TOWN.... PERIOD. ... If Pleonast is in a game, he will be anti town. Of all the asinine policies, this might take the cake. And talk about boneheaded grudges. how did his sig line go again? Words are one thing, but actions are another? Once I see different actions from pleoast you will get different words from me. I'm not holding the grudge. He is holding it against MAFIA. How is voting someone for something they have done IN THIS GAME a grudge?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 29, 2012 15:31:31 GMT -5
Day 2 Vote Count
Pleonast (3 votes) - Meeko, KidVermicious, Colby11 Meeko (2 votes) - SisterCoyote, Pleonast JustBeingGinger (1 vote) - Penalty Vote Inner Stickler (1 vote) - dizzymrslizzy Lightfoot (1 vote) - guiri Richbeckman (1 vote) - guiri Crys (1 vote) - askthepizzaguy BillMc (1 vote) - askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy (1 vote) - Penalty Vote
With these votes, Pleonast will be lynched.
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Post by crys on Sept 29, 2012 15:57:47 GMT -5
Pizza, so you too are voting without making a case. This just seems wrong to me. I get that you have taken a chunk of people to look at but why the random votes. Of course there could be scum in there but that goes for any random chunk of players. It seems to me that everyone could just pick two players to vote and hope to get scum, is this really the way to play the game? I think Pleo is getting a free pass at the moment, we don't even know for sure that he has investigated anyone yet as he won't say who it was. We really don't know any more than yesterDay except that there are possibly three 3rd Parties, two of which are dead. Pizza is being very enigmatic again, saying he has information that is good for Town but can't tell Town what it is. This goes against everything I have ever thought about Mafia. The more Town knows the better off they are. Two people want us to trust them, Pleo and Pizza and yet they want us to do it blindly. I believe what he said was he gave the information that would help town but the other would have been beneficial to scum which is why he didn't post that part Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards
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Post by crys on Sept 29, 2012 15:59:29 GMT -5
Is it asking for further information to ask for an explanation of what it means for a role to "complement" the Town Vig? And how (or why?) would this "complement" allow the Town Vig to be less hesitant to fire at will? That information will be specifically and one-sidedly beneficial to the mafia. The information that was actually beneficial to the town has been shared. Although the information you request might help clarify what's going on, for you it is simply a curiosity that you want satisfied. The mafia will use that information to completely undermine the good that can be done. I know you want to know. I'll tell you all later. Yep here is the post glad I'm not crazy lol Sent from my SCH-I405 using proboards
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 29, 2012 19:08:01 GMT -5
Day 2 Vote CountPleonast (3 votes) - Meeko, KidVermicious, Colby11 Meeko (2 votes) - SisterCoyote, Pleonast JustBeingGinger (1 vote) - Penalty Vote Inner Stickler (1 vote) - dizzymrslizzy Lightfoot (1 vote) - guiri Richbeckman (1 vote) - guiri Crys (1 vote) - askthepizzaguy BillMc (1 vote) - askthepizzaguy Askthepizzaguy (1 vote) - Penalty Vote With these votes, Pleonast will be lynched. When did ATPG get a penalty vote?
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Post by lauriern on Sept 29, 2012 19:24:12 GMT -5
Finally caught up. It was hard to get through it all since the so much of the debate is the same as the Day before. I found myself zoning out to much of it and having to make myself re-focus. Meeko - I know I gave you a hard time about your posts in Marathon. That was b/c I was Scum and you were any easy set-up. This time your posts are just driving me nuts. Dude, please, slow down. Slogging through your posts is exhausting! That being said, I haven't changed my mind. I still think Pleo's claim is pure BS. Sooooooo, Vote: Pleonast The only other thing that really bothered me was ATPG's totally random, no reason votes. It may not be Scummy, but it sure isn't Pro-Town. Soooooooo, Vote: AskThePizzaGuy I will consider moving my Pizza vote if he can give reasons for his votes.
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 29, 2012 19:50:06 GMT -5
Quick post- no time-off to the race track-gots a date
guiri I’m playing with more than one person here – if my questions sound rhetorical so be it- a thought point. If I question a players motives/actions and they don’t choose to respond- perhaps another will.
IRL I talk this way
did you see that- or is it just me?
Your picking of nits seems higher than usual?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 20:17:39 GMT -5
Of all the asinine policies, this might take the cake. And talk about boneheaded grudges. how did his sig line go again? Words are one thing, but actions are another? Once I see different actions from pleoast you will get different words from me. I'm not holding the grudge. He is holding it against MAFIA. How is voting someone for something they have done IN THIS GAME a grudge? There's no reasoning with you on this point apparently, so I'm done trying.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Sept 29, 2012 20:38:38 GMT -5
I agree with you Lightfoot. It seems like Guiri is majorly nitpicking. Since when is questioning an action, a statement or whatever a bad thing to do? Guiri, Directly to you.....If you don't ask questions, how do you expect to put feelers out and get some conversations flowing, even a rhetorical question? I'm not quite getting your point of why you are voting the way you are?!?!
Pizza The more I think about it, and the closer to the end of day we get, I really am not liking your anti-town approach to "just trust me, don't push me on revealing more otherwise I'll completely shut down.....
And I'll be the second to ask how did you get a penalty vote?
Vote: AskthePizzaGuy
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 29, 2012 21:00:49 GMT -5
<snip> I'm either very impressed or very suspicious that you (seemingly) so easily understood Guiri's toe stub comment. Which is it? What are you doing to help you decide? If it's suspicious, surely that indicates possible scum and is a reason to vote? <snip>. At the time I posted it, I did not know which it was. At the time it seemed like it could be suspicious, but there is clearly so much going on in this game (I read those roles you so helpfully posted) that I am trying to maintain the assumption that everything is over my head. So maybe it was nothing. Suburban asked a similar question of me: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=5#98565Which I answered: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2047&page=5#98567What am I doing to help me decide? I read the further comments that my post prompted: Rich, 1) This isn't Wombat's second rodeo as far as I'm aware. 2) The Mod usually PMs investigative power roles, so although you weren't aware of any PMs beyond the first one in your first game they were undoubtedly happening. and Not to mention that by the time you get to the bottom of page 1 of this Day 2 thread, two other players had already responded regarding 'game-related' toes, so Wombat didn't suddenly make that connection out of the blue on page 4. and Rich, 1) This isn't Wombat's second rodeo as far as I'm aware. 2) The Mod usually PMs investigative power roles, so although you weren't aware of any PMs beyond the first one in your first game they were undoubtedly happening. Correct. Marathon was my first game, but I also played in Colby's Hell's Kitchen game and Conspiracy 6. So this makes game #4. So, I made a comment about something that I did not completely understand, a discussion was prompted that made it clear what I did not understand was innocuous. I decided that her post was not suspicious and there is no reason to vote. Again, this is my understanding of how the game is played. Just like you asking me about my post and my responding to you.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 29, 2012 21:17:05 GMT -5
<snip> I was wondering about that. You are the top poster this Night (so far) with 14% of the posts. Day One you ranked 18th (4 way tie) with 2% of the posts. And? You thought it worthwhile to go an calculate this and then interesting enough to post, do you find the change suspicious? What are your thoughts? What were you wondering? <snip> In that post you are quoting, I was responding to this: Also, I'm not comfortable being as verbose as I usually am, in a game with so many other talkative people. You want me to talk more just say so but I'm having trouble keeping up as it is. And I read and re-read mafia games with 4000 posts before. There are just so many long, quote-y, blah blah posts that more from me would be counterproductive. But hey! If nights are less talkative i'll be blabby then. Howzat. What was I wondering?? I was wondering about why he was posting more at night than at day. Do I find it suspicious? No. I was wondering about whether it might be suspicious just prior to his post. I had not yet done the calculations, but I had mentally noted to look more closely when I had time. When he made the post I was amused that he addressed the issue just as I had thought about it. So I took the few moments to do the calculations (worthwhile to confirm my impression) and post it. Note the past tense "I was wondering..."
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Post by crys on Sept 29, 2012 22:26:49 GMT -5
Gosh this is painful. Look, I'll cast a net, so to speak. I have no case. There's nothing to base a case on. But I'm going to randomly pick on an entire segment of the population of the game, and focus my attention there, hoping there is scum hiding within. Understand? This is to get the whole "I find you suspicious for no reason, what do you say to that" thing going that should have been done yesterday but we instead focused on third parties. This is hardly comprehensive or based on special knowledge. Player List 7. crys 8. BillMc 9. dizzymrslizzy 10. wombat99 11. Lightfoot 12. storyteller 13. Merestil Haye This chunk of the player base, and all in a row. I would be interested in lynch pressure on any of them. I am making a wild guess that there are mafia and/or hostiles somewhere in here. Now, if that's not too unorthodox a method of playing the game for yall, I'll get the ball rolling. Vote: Crys Vote: BillMcThere's no case. I choose you for randomly being scum. Die or convince me otherwise. Why should I worry about convincing you in order to live??? I feel that this behavior right here is anti town and I may have to re-evaluate your posts to see what I can come up with. I was willing to let your information thing go, but now combined with this it is making me wonder a bit.
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Post by crys on Sept 29, 2012 22:27:36 GMT -5
LOL! I thought that was how the game was played. When something does not make sense to me, ask! So that's what I am trying to do. I'm not talking about asking questions when you don't understand something. But that's my point, you are not engaging the player with questions, you're asking rhetorical quetions or making comments to the world that seem to insinuate some level of suspicion without making it explicit or accompanying the suspicion with a vote. It's things like these that caught my eye:Interesting? Why not ask him why he's not concerned? Is interesting "fun", "suspicious", or just "curious"? Why is the last bit a question? To whom? What's the point of this post?More commentary, with random questions, you argue that he's no danger but still ask wonder if we should lynch him because he's annoying. Who are you asking? What do you think? If you find him suspicious, vote him.Again, who are you asking? Rhetoric questions no-one will answer? Or are you accusing Suburban of PIS? If so, accuse him. Which is it? What are you doing to help you decide? If it's suspicious, surely that indicates possible scum and is a reason to vote?And? You thought it worthwhile to go an calculate this and then interesting enough to post, do you find the change suspicious? What are your thoughts? What were you wondering?You sort of suggest Pleo's claim is false because of the conincidence with the previous game but don't come out and say it, and, rather than linking or posting his original claim, or checking for yourself, you ask others to check for you. Why? Don't you want to find scum? Why not make the little effort to check your facts and then come back here and either make an accusation against Pleo or explain why you no longer find it suspicious? www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=poll&thread=2037&page=3#97456I suppose this means nothing, but I believe this kind of slip (killing people instead of Scum) got a Scum lynched in Marathon, so....it makes me wonder. Again, "it makes you wonder", "you suppose", you believe that it was an accurate scum tell in the last game, why so much dithering and hesitation now? Still, I expect that voters will at least make a case. guiri, your voting in advance of making a case strikes me as rather strange. Oh, I made my case. I didn't back it up with evidence but I think I made it pretty clear why I was voting for Lightfoot and rich.[/quote] Whoa...just when I thought meeko was being way overly sensitive and paranoid.....
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 29, 2012 22:30:07 GMT -5
<snip> If memory serves (in my case always a dubious proposition), in the Marathon game, when Pleo falsely claimed Town Detective, his targets were predominantly lurkers. What a coincidence that his "assigned role" in this game is to do what he falsely claimed to be doing in Marathon. If anyone here from Marathon can confirm or deny my memory, I would appreciate it. Thanks. You sort of suggest Pleo's claim is false because of the conincidence with the previous game but don't come out and say it, and, rather than linking or posting his original claim, or checking for yourself, you ask others to check for you. Why? Don't you want to find scum? Why not make the little effort to check your facts and then come back here and either make an accusation against Pleo or explain why you no longer find it suspicious?<snip> Yes, I am openly skeptical of Pleo's claim. I believe there was an ongoing skeptical discussion of Pleo's claim by several players. I felt that the coincidence of the concern over lurkers happening in both games may be pertinent and no one had as yet noted it. I did not have the time to go back to the Marathon game to find confirmation. Note that I asked no one else to go back and find confirmation as you state. I simply was asking if anyone else could "confirm or deny my memory," by which I intended only to be asking if other's memories were consistent or not with mine. And I believe two people responded on that basis, so they understood what I was asking. Do I still find Pleo suspicious? Yes, I think I do. Why do I not vote for him? Because I find the argument that a few days might provide more information strong enough to heed in this instance. It seems to me that the game begins with an implied claim by all players to be Town. I believe I have a tenuous grasp on how Pleo's claim is not sufficiently different from all the implied claims to Lynch him just for that. I remain skeptical, but I am willing to be patient. I am inclined to not vote for someone unless I actually feel strongly enough that they are Scum and should be Lynched. At End of Day, I may have to abandon this principle and vote for "most likely." But until EoD arrives..... Yes, I do want to find Scum. I would argue your laundry list of "suspicious" posts by me is largely made up of me trying to find Scum. Have I found any yet? No. Am I good at it? No. Do I go about it in the same way you do? No. As near as I can see, most of us have our own ways. Hopefully, with some experience, I will be better at it. As it is, I must play this game with the experience I have.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 29, 2012 22:54:56 GMT -5
how did his sig line go again? Words are one thing, but actions are another? Once I see different actions from pleoast you will get different words from me. I'm not holding the grudge. He is holding it against MAFIA. How is voting someone for something they have done IN THIS GAME a grudge? There's no reasoning with you on this point apparently, so I'm done trying. No. You're right. I should trust Pleonast In every post he ever writes, for this game, or any other.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 29, 2012 23:03:28 GMT -5
<snip> Again, "it makes you wonder", "you suppose", you believe that it was an accurate scum tell in the last game, why so much dithering and hesitation now? <snip> Yes, again it made me wonder. I'm sorry my limited vocabulary bothers you. Yes, I believed it was an accurate Scum Tell in the previous game, but even in the previous game I only thought so in hindsight. Lightfoot died at Night. We assumed a Vig, someone (and you know this better than me since you've already posted the sequence in this game) pointed out the "Tell" and I picked up on that and repeated it. But...Even without your statement that her Tell had nothing to do with her death (I believe you stated you thought her a Mason), the Tell is only that. It is a data point. It is not a conviction. All by itself it means little. So I "suppose" it meant nothing. There was much discussion with and about KidV subsequent to that post. I feel KidV's posts in that discussion felt pro-Town. What is he? I do not know. Do I currently think he is Scum? No. The last statement applies to all the other players I have spent tonight talking about as I have explained my posts to you. Do I currently think they are Scum? No. What are they? I do not know.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 29, 2012 23:07:53 GMT -5
The last statement applies to all the other players I have spent tonight talking about as I have explained my posts to you. Do I currently think they are Scum? No. What are they? I do not know.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 29, 2012 23:13:21 GMT -5
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 30, 2012 1:51:17 GMT -5
Quick thoughts real quick- I am running on fumes, but I know that we have roughly 30 hours til EOD.
I still find it very suspicious that not a lot of people have voted... I will reread everyone later, have to get up in roughly 8 hours.
I don't buy Pleonast's claim at all, but I know that he is not in danger, at least not yet. I bid 6 voted for the Mercenary last night, but I did not receive his or her services. So, either we are about to have votes piled on, or whoever has the mercenary will be killed.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 30, 2012 2:02:17 GMT -5
There's no reasoning with you on this point apparently, so I'm done trying. No. You're right. I should trust Pleonast In every post he ever writes, for this game, or any other. More hyperbole. Like I said, there's apparently no reasoning with you. I happen to agree with Pizza's observation that there's not much to build a case on, and the cases against the lynch leaders I find less than compelling. I'm still willing to give Pleo the benefit of the doubt for the time being. Meeko is off in his own logical universe, but that's a null tell. Pizza is apparently taking a random shot in the dark at a couple of folks, which I can't really fault him for in the current circumstances. Not sure how I feel about his snuggle. I fear there are some Scum lurking and/or hiding in plain sight sounding more reasonable than all of the people making me The only thing I've really got is that my gut thinks KidV may be up to something, though the case is largely circumstantial and hinges the timing of his divulging his Merc bid price and the state of the game when the divulging took place. His personal-seeming jabs at Pleo and then going largely MIA are additional (circumstantial) data points. KidV[/color]
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 30, 2012 4:12:29 GMT -5
I roll my eyes at what passes for "anti-town" behavior around these parts. For the record.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 30, 2012 4:19:21 GMT -5
It may not be Scummy, but it sure isn't Pro-Town. Soooooooo, Vote: AskThePizzaGuy [/color] I will consider moving my Pizza vote if he can give reasons for his votes. [/quote] You would move your vote if I gave fake reasons for random votes? Why? I told you they were random votes. What would post-facto reasons do to convince you I was working for town's best interest? I don't understand your logic. Town wins when the hostile parties are lynched. Absent a discussion about something besides Pleonast, I have nothing to go on except who I don't want lynched, which is a few people. Random votes aren't anti-town. it's how you get the game rolling once it begins, or once it stalls. Capice?
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 30, 2012 4:23:20 GMT -5
I'm so townie, I practically pee blue.
This is a breadcrumb.
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Post by lauriern on Sept 30, 2012 8:27:53 GMT -5
Random votes aren't anti-town. it's how you get the game rolling once it begins, or once it stalls. Capice? I don't agree. Random votes are just random votes. Without reasons for your votes, what discussion is started?
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Post by lauriern on Sept 30, 2012 8:28:27 GMT -5
NETA: <snipped> ^^^^
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Post by guiri on Sept 30, 2012 11:04:42 GMT -5
I agree with you Lightfoot. It seems like Guiri is majorly nitpicking. Since when is questioning an action, a statement or whatever a bad thing to do? Guiri, Directly to you.....If you don't ask questions, how do you expect to put feelers out and get some conversations flowing, even a rhetorical question? I'm not quite getting your point of why you are voting the way you are?!?! I suspect Lightfoot and/or Rich are scum and are pretending to scum hunt. Making remarks about things that could be interpreted as suspicious, directing questions at the audience rather than the accused, being wary of taking a stand and expressing suspicion without testing the waters first - all reasons to question their motivation. It's not a smoking gun or a massive scum slip, sure, but it's behavior I've seen that's indicative of scum. Whoa...just when I thought meeko was being way overly sensitive and paranoid..... Can you explain this comment? Do you agree that Lightfoot and Rich are scummy scum? Or am I being over sensitive to something? I bid 6 voted for the Mercenary last night, but I did not receive his or her services. What made you decide to bid 6 votes? YesterDay it took 12 votes to win the mercenary, you know I bid 8 votes and lost. I'm so townie, I practically pee blue. This is a breadcrumb. You're a smurf?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 30, 2012 11:21:46 GMT -5
I'm so townie, I practically pee blue. This is a breadcrumb. I thought breadcrumbs were when you would cleverly disguise something for a select few, or outright hide something only to later be like "hey I was bread crumbling you all this time....." And show them where you did so when you need to prove your claim.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 30, 2012 11:35:03 GMT -5
I'm so townie, I practically pee blue. This is a breadcrumb. I thought breadcrumbs were when you would cleverly disguise something for a select few, or outright hide something only to later be like "hey I was bread crumbling you all this time....." And show them where you did so when you need to prove your claim. It does seem to be self defeating when you announce the breadcrumb as a breadcrumb in the same post you drop it.
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