Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 28, 2012 13:37:59 GMT -5
Also lynching dead people, I should have crossed those off. I still wonder what the zombie coach says to his zombie players at half- time. "Let's look dead out there people," You said you have a lack of information. Are you choosing to not answer my question, re your post restriction,because of this?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 28, 2012 13:42:56 GMT -5
I'd prefer we not lynch any of JustBeingGinger, BillMc, gnarlycharlie, storyteller0910, Red Skeezix, Sister Coyote ToDay, since I've investigated one of them and don't want to lose out on my second-stage investigation. Lets have them speak up. If they don't want to have pizza come after them, the should speak up, repeatedly. Oh does that run counter to yours, Pleonast ? Sorry.
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Post by Pleonast on Sept 28, 2012 14:06:59 GMT -5
I'd prefer we not lynch any of JustBeingGinger, BillMc, gnarlycharlie, storyteller0910, Red Skeezix, Sister Coyote ToDay, since I've investigated one of them and don't want to lose out on my second-stage investigation. Lets have them speak up. If they don't want to have pizza come after them, the should speak up, repeatedly. Oh does that run counter to yours, Pleonast ? Sorry. Not really, it doesn't matter to me. I'll win whether or not I complete an investigation. And all of them actively participating would be very helpful to town. It's just lynching one of them when their post counts remain low is not useful when I'll get a full investigation ToNight. I could reveal now who I investigated and the result, but then we lose the chance to get reactions from them.
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Sept 28, 2012 14:26:37 GMT -5
I'd prefer we not lynch any of JustBeingGinger, BillMc, gnarlycharlie, storyteller0910, Red Skeezix, Sister Coyote ToDay, since I've investigated one of them and don't want to lose out on my second-stage investigation. Lets have them speak up. If they don't want to have pizza come after them, the should speak up, repeatedly. Oh does that run counter to yours, Pleonast ? Sorry. Pizza 'come after them'? How? Did you see something I didn't see in his posts? As far as I can see, no indication that he himself has the power to do something to anyone.
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Post by Silver Jan on Sept 28, 2012 14:41:04 GMT -5
Lets have them speak up. If they don't want to have pizza come after them, the should speak up, repeatedly. Oh does that run counter to yours, Pleonast ? Sorry. Pizza 'come after them'? How? Did you see something I didn't see in his posts? As far as I can see, no indication that he himself has the power to do something to anyone. As far as I can see, Puzza knows something about the Vig but he hasn't said that he is the Vig. Meeko you really are a bit too paranoid
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 28, 2012 15:14:08 GMT -5
I've fallen a bit behind, a consequence of advancing eld. (Read; I have a bad habit of taking a nap in the evening.) I should be able to catch up over the weekend, but am going to have to vote early as I'll likely be on the Tube at Dusk.
I'll start my second read now. Before I do, I'd like to comment on Peeker's revealed role.
He was a "serial annoyer," last seen in Hotel Strangeways under the name Scrappy Doo, where they had the power to drive everyone away from a chosen location each Night. Does anyone have a list of locations? Or is it simply that we all have rooms to sleep in at Night (see N1 where Pollux refers to them).
Was anyone Annoyed by Peeker last Night?
I thought my notifications had been quiet; no subscription.
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Post by guiri on Sept 28, 2012 16:41:47 GMT -5
I'm getting a feeling that Lightfoot and Richbeckman have made a number comments and asked questions which weakly imply someone is suspicious without backing up the suspicion with a vote or making an accusation. Seems like they're testing the waters, to see if anyone else bites, or smudging.
Vote Lightfoot Vote Richbeckman
I'll back up that feeling with evidence when I have some time over the weekend.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 28, 2012 17:31:45 GMT -5
Lets have them speak up. If they don't want to have pizza come after them, the should speak up, repeatedly. Oh does that run counter to yours, Pleonast ? Sorry. Not really, it doesn't matter to me. I'll win whether or not I complete an investigation. And all of them actively participating would be very helpful to town. It's just lynching one of them when their post counts remain low is not useful when I'll get a full investigation ToNight. I could reveal now who I investigated and the result, but then we lose the chance to get reactions from them. You will win, or town will win? Your slip is showing, Pleo.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 28, 2012 18:24:43 GMT -5
I think you're reading in a bit, Meeko.
Pleo has stated his wincon is not Town's, but does not preclude Town's, either. So there's no slip there, but a statement consistent with what Pleo has already told us.
Now, whether or not he's telling the truth about stealing the win is a question, of course.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 28, 2012 20:19:13 GMT -5
I'm getting a feeling that Lightfoot and Richbeckman have made a number comments and asked questions which weakly imply someone is suspicious without backing up the suspicion with a vote or making an accusation. Seems like they're testing the waters, to see if anyone else bites, or smudging. Vote Lightfoot Vote RichbeckmanI'll back up that feeling with evidence when I have some time over the weekend. LOL! I thought that was how the game was played. When something does not make sense to me, ask! So that's what I am trying to do.
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Post by LightFoot on Sept 28, 2012 21:18:47 GMT -5
finally home from work Pleo is turning into ‘white noise’ Sorry if I'm repetitive, but I do not think asking a player to justify why they think their own votes help town is unreasonable. It should not be hard to complete "I think Player is hostile because..." when you're voting for that player, and refusal to do so indicates to me that the voter does not have a pro-town motivation. That small snippet of my post is all you respond to… You could have enlightened us with your response to some of the other observations ( It could have helped your post count) [/sarc] I'm getting a feeling that Lightfoot and Richbeckman have made a number comments and asked questions which weakly imply someone is suspicious without backing up the suspicion with a vote or making an accusation. Seems like they're testing the waters, to see if anyone else bites, or smudging. Vote Lightfoot Vote RichbeckmanI'll back up that feeling with evidence when I have some time over the weekend. Just when I thought no one was reading my posts -due to the responses- ( well with a vote you have- nothing else) I did explain my sporatic posting – but c’est la- I’ll vote when I can compose a case instead of just tossing one. Of course when my inquiries are disregarded it makes it a bit more difficult There are a few turns and twists that we have seen so far that are for lack of a better word- a tad different- Day still has hours
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Post by crys on Sept 28, 2012 21:55:22 GMT -5
I wish I had PI. This game would be so much easier. (I actually have dreams on a fairly regular basis where my role power is knowing the members of the scum team and since I'm 1000% more eloquent when I don't have to be bothered with actually making cases, I win 100% of my dream mafia games. ) Yes, but they are just dreams aren't they. I have a 1:1 average, but I died before my team one last time.
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Sept 28, 2012 21:56:38 GMT -5
So we're about 10 pages in and aside from a bunch of information from the night there hasn't been much of substance this Day. This is why going after the Third Party Day 1 did so little. There wasn't much fruitful discussion. The scum, assuming they exist, would not have had to do anything but get rid of him.
If it's there, though I hope to find something. I know I haven't been very active Today and that's not likely to change until the middle of next week. I think by then I can put a lot more into the game.
Still, I expect that voters will at least make a case. guiri, your voting in advance of making a case strikes me as rather strange.
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Sept 28, 2012 22:08:55 GMT -5
(I actually have dreams on a fairly regular basis where my role power is knowing the members of the scum team and since I'm 1000% more eloquent when I don't have to be bothered with actually making cases, I win 100% of my dream mafia games. ) [This is not directed at you in this game since it's a dream, but I just thought it funny to take it and turn it : you know what role lets you know all of the scum players and not have to make a case and still win? Scum.] Back to the game: I still think you have displayed some unusual confidence in some statements you've made. I haven't seen anything that really is pushing it toward scum today (Day 1, I had a lower threshold since there's so little to go on at the start). A lot of people seem to be hiding something. Some of them must be hostile.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 28, 2012 22:59:50 GMT -5
You've crossed out the players CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, Meeko, Pleonast, KidVermicious, and Askthepizzaguy. I'll take as a given that you don't want to lynch yourself, but can you tell us why you don't want to lynch the others? I've stated before why I don't want to lynch you. I've also stated why I thought KidV was a terrible lynch, and that didn't change from yesterday to today, but to reiterate: You're a poor lynch because you've come forward with your role and at great risk to yourself revealed that you were not townie, and offered to work with the town. For now, I find those moves to be helpful, bold, and not scummy or hostile. KidV is a poor lynch because his risk-taking to gain the powers of the Mercenary I find to be much more townie than scummy or third party. Meeko because I've stated repeatedly, he seems townie to me, even if he's a bit Quixotic in charging at every windmill in sight. Cookies because she's demonstrating qualities I can work with. I can't say for sure she's townie, but overall I find her more helpful than anyone else at present.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 28, 2012 23:07:40 GMT -5
Gosh this is painful.
Look, I'll cast a net, so to speak.
I have no case. There's nothing to base a case on. But I'm going to randomly pick on an entire segment of the population of the game, and focus my attention there, hoping there is scum hiding within.
Understand? This is to get the whole "I find you suspicious for no reason, what do you say to that" thing going that should have been done yesterday but we instead focused on third parties.
This is hardly comprehensive or based on special knowledge.
Player List
7. crys 8. BillMc 9. dizzymrslizzy 10. wombat99 11. Lightfoot 12. storyteller 13. Merestil Haye
This chunk of the player base, and all in a row.
I would be interested in lynch pressure on any of them. I am making a wild guess that there are mafia and/or hostiles somewhere in here.
Now, if that's not too unorthodox a method of playing the game for yall, I'll get the ball rolling.
Vote: Crys Vote: BillMc
There's no case. I choose you for randomly being scum. Die or convince me otherwise.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Sept 28, 2012 23:10:13 GMT -5
"I'd prefer we not lynch any of JustBeingGinger, BillMc, gnarlycharlie, storyteller0910, Red Skeezix, Sister Coyote ToDay, since I've investigated one of them and don't want to lose out on my second-stage investigation."
^Said Pleonast.
Whoops.
At the same time, oh well. If I'm about to make a grievous error just say so. Never question the random net of justice!
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Post by Silver Jan on Sept 29, 2012 1:23:53 GMT -5
Pizza, so you too are voting without making a case. This just seems wrong to me. I get that you have taken a chunk of people to look at but why the random votes. Of course there could be scum in there but that goes for any random chunk of players. It seems to me that everyone could just pick two players to vote and hope to get scum, is this really the way to play the game?
I think Pleo is getting a free pass at the moment, we don't even know for sure that he has investigated anyone yet as he won't say who it was. We really don't know any more than yesterDay except that there are possibly three 3rd Parties, two of which are dead.
Pizza is being very enigmatic again, saying he has information that is good for Town but can't tell Town what it is. This goes against everything I have ever thought about Mafia. The more Town knows the better off they are. Two people want us to trust them, Pleo and Pizza and yet they want us to do it blindly.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Sept 29, 2012 1:57:55 GMT -5
I think personally that everyone is wanting KidV or Pleonast to reveal their investigations so that they have a better shot of covering their tracks....
While ATPG hasn't been making any sense, at least he is trying...
Ok brain tired, will vote for someone other than Pleonast later.. (and yes, I still don't buy his character name. Period)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 2:22:10 GMT -5
Can we get a show of hands from people who are affronted at the hypothetical idea of a Town player receiving information via a power (either their own or by receiving a message sent by another power) but being selective about how much of that information they share and when?
Meeko, and SilverJan and at least one other person that I can't recall off-hand are apparently on that list.
I've done it as a Town player. I've played in games where other Town players do it. It is not a foreign concept to me and I'm pretty sure it is not a foreign concept to some other players in this game. As such, it is going to be difficult to convince critical mass that it is anything more than a null tell.
Perhaps it would help to think of this sort of information as an extension of a game-starting role PM from the Mod. You aren't demanding that everyone in the game should post a full role claim, even though you don't know what those roles involve, and even though it would be really handy to know that information, right? So why is this different?
When people make partial role-claims in a closed set-up, there are people who don't like that too. I don't happen to be one of those people, with the caveat that not all partial claims are equal and if something stinks or starts to stink down the road as more data is collected, I'll certainly put pressure on for full transparency. But I think making policy votes like "no partial claims/shares of any kind ever" limits people's options of play and I see no reason to put such limits in place preemptively. I feel this way in spite of the fact that the Town needs information in order to make better decisions, because information that Scum doesn't know can also be helpful to Town.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 2:30:58 GMT -5
I think personally that everyone is wanting KidV or Pleonast to reveal their investigations so that they have a better shot of covering their tracks.... Everyone has tracks that need to be covered? I don't think so. I'm still searching for the best place(s) to put my vote(s) but right now I can't really see past the high volume of (imho) questionable logic/analysis/votes coming from quite a few people.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 29, 2012 5:53:18 GMT -5
Can we get a show of hands from people who are affronted at the hypothetical idea of a Town player receiving information via a power (either their own or by receiving a message sent by another power) but being selective about how much of that information they share and when? "How dare anyone withhold information from me?" It's quite natural to want to know all the answers. However, you have to accept that, in the early game, no-one does. I'm firmly on the side of players having autonomy over how their role is handled. This includes how information gained from their role is released to the world. I have no particular difficulty with people asking for a specific piece of information, but the player being asked should have the freedom to refuse. I know that, in games where I was a Doc, if I claimed I would generally refuse to reveal who I protected each Night, so as not to reveal my thought patterns to the killers. I believe this is pretty much common ground, actually. Whatever power I hold in a game, I always welcome suggestions, because I'm not omniscient and may have overlooked the option being suggested. But trying to put a stratijacket on a power role so they do what you say is never acceptable to me. This includes demands for revelation. Pleo's explanation of why he has withheld the player he investigated (and the result of that investigation) is reasonable in context; it is an attempt to maximise return on investment. I don't think it sheds any light on his true role or designation though. KidV's refusal to reveal what he had the Mercenary do last Night isn't too much of a problem either. There's a risk of losing the information should KidV be killed. ATPG has been quite open about this being only part of his role information. Hesays he's shared it to help a player with another role - which implies that ATPG and whoever he is speaking to are not capable of talking on another sanctioned board (otherwise why make the comment in the first place?) I suppose you could argue that this is a deliberate plant to stir up the Vig and ID them, but that seems convoluted. In all these, I adopt my standard "give them some rope and see if they hang themselves" approach. Let's see what comes of their decision to not reveal all immediately.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 29, 2012 5:56:09 GMT -5
Everyone has tracks that need to be covered? I don't think so. Most players have tracks that need to be covered from those on opposing teams. About the only people that don't are those with no power or extra information - ie vanilla Town.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 29, 2012 6:48:41 GMT -5
If you'd like to help hunt scum, that'll be great, but please stop arguing that we should be trusting you and your benevolent motives. Ain't gonna happen. If you'd read what I've been writing, you'd have noticed that I'm not asking anyone to trust me. With all due respect, you are in fact asking us to trust you. I'm saying that 1) it's a mislynch to lynch me and a miskill to kill me, and 2) town would be stupid to disregard my investigations. What you refuse to acknowledge is that point 1 is only true if you are nonhostile third party, and we have only your unsupported word for that. You have offered no objective evidence at all that this is the case. As the game develops we might hope to see some objective evidence that you are telling the truth. But right now, you're asking us to take your word for it, and failing to acknowledge this. That failure is counting against you in my book.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 29, 2012 6:50:05 GMT -5
Can we get a show of hands from people who are affronted at the hypothetical idea of a Town player receiving information via a power (either their own or by receiving a message sent by another power) but being selective about how much of that information they share and when? Meeko, and SilverJan and at least one other person that I can't recall off-hand are apparently on that list. I've done it as a Town player. I've played in games where other Town players do it. It is not a foreign concept to me and I'm pretty sure it is not a foreign concept to some other players in this game. As such, it is going to be difficult to convince critical mass that it is anything more than a null tell. Perhaps it would help to think of this sort of information as an extension of a game-starting role PM from the Mod. You aren't demanding that everyone in the game should post a full role claim, even though you don't know what those roles involve, and even though it would be really handy to know that information, right? So why is this different? When people make partial role-claims in a closed set-up, there are people who don't like that too. I don't happen to be one of those people, with the caveat that not all partial claims are equal and if something stinks or starts to stink down the road as more data is collected, I'll certainly put pressure on for full transparency. But I think making policy votes like "no partial claims/shares of any kind ever" limits people's options of play and I see no reason to put such limits in place preemptively. I feel this way in spite of the fact that the Town needs information in order to make better decisions, because information that Scum doesn't know can also be helpful to Town. With respect, Cookies, you don't get it. At least not my part. Pleonast could have a role "You are vanilla." And that could be it. Pleonast would claim it on day one. He would act high and mighty, elitist, condescending. Holier than thou, with an arrogant aire about him. that is what gets me. He demands and monopolizes any game he is in. Now, if he has the audacity to take the entire game hostage until we meet the ransom, that is a thousand times worse, Players are going to be indifferent to his actions, one hundred thousand times worse. I'm not going to say they are stupid, but if I am too paranoid, you guys are too ...... Simple. Players start drinking Pleonast's wine, one million times worse. This most often takes the role of giving him space and time..... No pressure. In short, it's not the letter of law claiming that he does, it's the spirit. He acts on the role in a way that WILL ALWAYS BE ANTI TOWN.... PERIOD. You guys thought you were playing this game, you are instead now playing my game. How? I'm glad you asked. Let me put in the foundation here by claiming, and I will sit back and give you instructions on how build the house for Tow.... Er I mean me and my exclusive ends. If Pleonast is in a game, he will be anti town.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 29, 2012 7:04:49 GMT -5
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery.
Pleonast sure adds a lot in the opening game.
He adds a whole lot.
He is far from perfect.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 10:37:17 GMT -5
Everyone has tracks that need to be covered? I don't think so. Most players have tracks that need to be covered from those on opposing teams. About the only people that don't are those with no power or extra information - ie vanilla Town. Sure. But on Night 1, I doubt that everyone was up to their own clandestine mischief. That was the only nit I was picking in the context of Guiri's statement.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 10:44:37 GMT -5
With respect, Cookies, you don't get it. At least not my part. Then we're not getting each other, since Pizza and people's problems with him not sharing more was who I had in mind when writing my post. I wasn't explicit in referencing Pizza, but as Pleo has posted what he alleges to be his full claim he's somewhat in a different category since we have a lot more data on him to consider compared to Pizza, or KidV, or any of the other unclaimed folks who may have received any game-related information since Dawn.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 10:56:01 GMT -5
In short, it's not the letter of law claiming that he does, it's the spirit. He acts on the role in a way that WILL ALWAYS BE ANTI TOWN.... PERIOD. ... If Pleonast is in a game, he will be anti town. Of all the asinine policies, this might take the cake. And talk about boneheaded grudges.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2012 11:03:17 GMT -5
With all due respect, you are in fact asking us to trust you. Only if you think he's going to be able to pull of some sort of solo win and end the game within the first few Days. I find that highly unlikely.
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