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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:53:24 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 11, 2013 10:53:24 GMT -5
Idle, in relation to the underlined part of the quote, will you confirm or deny that the PM you received contained more than just the offer to remove sin - you don't need to say what. I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. The PM didn't have anything more from the offerer about other things I may get, no (if that's what you mean). It did have one other side fact that I should know about if I accepted, though (if that's what you mean). As for you not accepting his offer..I don't see what having no sins has to do with it. Doesn't say you can't accept even if you have no sins. If this is a possible way to see if you're Christian or not (from whether Ryjae dies or not), I say go for it. There isn't any downside that I can see and to think otherwise looks even more suspicious than I already found you. Actually, strike that. I AM going to say what that other part was (and then give my reason for doing so). The other part of the offer told me that IF I ACCEPTED, I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE ANY NIGHT POWERS/ACTIONS THAT I MAY HAVE.So, I suppose that this COULD be a possible, conceivable reason why Bill wouldn't want to accept, if he had a Night power and wanted to use it.... but in my mind (and opinion), having a potential known Christian trumps the use of using a power for one Night (unless it's a damn good power). Color me still suspicious of BillMc
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:54:20 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 10:54:20 GMT -5
At this point, I'm largely leaning Christian on HockeyMonkey and MrV.
And I'm absolutely clueless as to who might be a Devil.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:56:35 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 11, 2013 10:56:35 GMT -5
And just for the record, I don't believe SisterC is Town at all...so if I'm still alive tomorrow, it will be her and Wombat as the two I'm most suspicious of.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:58:39 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 10:58:39 GMT -5
And all y'all might want to give texcat a good hard look when I flip Christian.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:59:10 GMT -5
Post by scáthach on Feb 11, 2013 10:59:10 GMT -5
This is a slightly disingenuous question, since part of what y'all are voting me for is having a No Lynch vote down at the end of yesterDay. So, you know, be consistent, is all I'm saying. Well, that's not why I'm voting you, I'm voting you for the Cardinal sin thing. But fair enough, I had forgotten. So you were deliberately trying to vig her then? I can determine whether or not someone has sin -- and, after re-reading my PM, all Devils have sin, so that suggests Laurie is either Christian or able to disguise her sins. I determine "innocent" or "guilty", not a particular number of sins a person may have, and a guilty person is unlikely to survive my investigation. What about Laurie's claim that she does have sin? Are you sure that you're checking if someone has sin or not? That isn't some sort of color confusion in your role PM and you're just checking if they're innocent/guilty of being a Devil?
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:59:18 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 10:59:18 GMT -5
And just for the record, I don't believe SisterC is Town at all...so if I'm still alive tomorrow, it will be her and Wombat as the two I'm most suspicious of. That's a strange comment, Idle, since I'm still the lynch leader.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 10:59:17 GMT -5
Post by lauriern on Feb 11, 2013 10:59:17 GMT -5
Shit, SisC, I didn't read your post before Scathach's b/c it was long & I'm really, really late (Damn Mafia ). I have no idea why it said I have no sins, I do. I'm unvoting b/c I don't want another sin. Gut-feeling, but I believe you. Unvote: Sister Coyote
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:01:07 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 11, 2013 11:01:07 GMT -5
And just for the record, I don't believe SisterC is Town at all...so if I'm still alive tomorrow, it will be her and Wombat as the two I'm most suspicious of. That's a strange comment, Idle, since I'm still the lynch leader. 1. I didn't know, since there doesn't seem to be vote updates 2. I'm more for a Bill lynch today than you, hence why I'm not going to add to your votes.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:02:27 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 11:02:27 GMT -5
This is a slightly disingenuous question, since part of what y'all are voting me for is having a No Lynch vote down at the end of yesterDay. So, you know, be consistent, is all I'm saying. Well, that's not why I'm voting you, I'm voting you for the Cardinal sin thing. But fair enough, I had forgotten. So you were deliberately trying to vig her then? Yes, based on HockeyMonkey's post at the end of yesterDay that I quoted. The language is "you may determine whether or not a living player has sins. (All Devils have sin.)" Now, admittedly, my return is "innocent or guilty" so you may be right about that. What I'm wondering, though, is whether I should have verified if I was checking for sin or Cardinal Sin. Or, whether or not it's just color, though the implication in the rest of my PM is that I can kill Christians who have sin (or Sin).
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:03:40 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 11:03:40 GMT -5
That's a strange comment, Idle, since I'm still the lynch leader. 1. I didn't know, since there doesn't seem to be vote updates 2. I'm more for a Bill lynch today than you, hence why I'm not going to add to your votes. Pleo keeps the vote counts in a separate thread just FYI.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:04:02 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 11, 2013 11:04:02 GMT -5
Oh, okay, thanks for letting me know, I didn't know that.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:09:37 GMT -5
Post by wombat99 on Feb 11, 2013 11:09:37 GMT -5
Unvote: BillMc
I can accept that he does have a possible Christian motivation for declining the sin-cleansing, after all, now that we know that he has to decline or he can't use his Night power.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:40:33 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 11, 2013 11:40:33 GMT -5
I just don't think Bill is Scum. I was leaning toward the "he has some other reason to not want to accept ryjae's offer", and with Idle's latest bit of information, I'm thinking that must be it. I see that SisC has claimed, but I don't believe she's addressed the issue that caused most of us to vote for her: namely, her confusion about Cardinal Sins. Perhaps she doesn't have a good explanation and was hoping her claim and the associated discussion would make us forget about that point. On the other hand, I don't understand lauriern's position at all. SisC is making a claim about her that is untrue, yet she's unvoting SisC because the "believes her". How can you believe someone when they say something that you know is untrue? After a skim-through, I'm keeping my votes on BillMc, SilverJan and Suburban Plankton. <snip>Suburban Plankton - also did not want the filibuster and then flip-flopped about it. Combined with prior reasons in my previous post, I'm leaving my vote for him. When did I flip-flop about it? I was against the filibuster from the very start, and never wavered on that position.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:44:36 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 11:44:36 GMT -5
I WASN'T CONFUSED!
I made an extrapolation BASED ON THE CONVERSATION AHEAD OF MINE.
Holy-- Look, if you're going to lynch me for something, at least lynch me for something I ACTUALLY DID.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:47:54 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Feb 11, 2013 11:47:54 GMT -5
SisC
I can’t reconcile your role as Christian
Can you help?
If you investigate someone who is not sinless, they die
“I can determine whether or not someone has sin -- and, after re-reading my PM, all Devils have sin, so that suggests Laurie is either Christian or able to disguise her sins.
I determine "innocent" or "guilty", not a particular number of sins a person may have, and a guilty person is unlikely to survive my investigation”
but laurie claims she has sin-
Many players have claimed Christian and also claimed they had sin ( so they would flip guilty for you)
If they have sin do they automatically die? Or do you get to choose if they live? Also- can you choose not to use your powers?
One miss-lynch and many players will gain a sin ( so we’re told)
It doesn’t sound at all like Christian power to me –the odds of finding a Christian with sin (s) would be higher than finding a Devil-
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:51:15 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 11:51:15 GMT -5
I can chose not to use my power.
I can't help that laurie claims she has sin. As I said above, it didn't occur to me to ask the mod whether my power, such as it is, differentiates between sin and Sin
AND NOTE THAT I DO NOT WANT LAURIE TO CLARIFY.
A guilty target dies UNLESS some other protective power is in place.
Look. I'm a Vig. Color aside, at the end of the day, I'm a Vig with mild investigative powers.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:56:12 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Feb 11, 2013 11:56:12 GMT -5
I have a meeting from 10am until 1pm. All votes and Day actions must be received strictly before 12n PT.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 11:57:54 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 11, 2013 11:57:54 GMT -5
I posted this in the Day 1 thread by mistake...reposting here... This is the post by Hockey Monkey that SisC says spurred her to try to Vig lauriern. Sorry that things are so crazy for you IRL! But...even though you don't have time to read 11 pages and catch up, you could vote No Lynch instead of placing an actual vote on someone you haven't made a case on. I find it suspicious that you would do this. You say you are making a vote just so you won't get a penalty, but we don't know if there is a mechanism for that or not. You should be voting to find scum. Your vote for someone who has no votes is a safe place you won't have to defend. You could have voted for the lynch leader instead without really having to defend it, (you could have said, "hey, RL is getting in the way of things right now and I don't have time to make my own case on Patricia, but yeah, it seems as though she's lying her ass off") so why not place your vote there instead? It seems like a really scummy thing to do to just drop a vote on someone jus because they don't have any votes and are in no danger of being lynched. Vote: lauriern (again, sorry that you are so busy and I hope you won't have to sub) Hockey Monkey thinks that laurie's late vote on Pollux is Scummy; apparently SisC agrees strongly enough to make laurie her Vig target. Except that I think Hockey Monkey's case is weak-sauce. Not that it's entirely without a point; much of what he says is correct. In fact, pretty much everything he says in his post except for one thing: nothing about laurie's vote is Scummy. She came in late after having missed pretty much the entire Day. She didn't want to take a Penalty, so she cast a 'meaningless' one-off vote. Hockey Monkey does err when he says "we don't know if there is a mechanism for that or not"; the penalty for not voting is clearly spelled out in the rules. Yes, laurie should have voted 'No Lynch' rather than voting for Pollux, but if she felt she had to place a vote, then her vote on Pollux was as close to a 'No Lynch' as she could get. This is not to say that lauries couldn't possible be Scum...only that there's nothing about her Day 1 vote that suggests anything about her alignment. I think Hockey Monkey was wrong in thinking so, and I find it hard to believe that SisC would latch upon that particular post to determine her Vig. I'm happy with my vote on SisC.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 12:05:57 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 12:05:57 GMT -5
You find that argument to be weaksauce, fine.
I didn't.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 12:13:50 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Feb 11, 2013 12:13:50 GMT -5
After a skim-through, I'm keeping my votes on BillMc, SilverJan and Suburban Plankton. SilverJan made a reference that she saw was guiri did "last night" and has not said why despite a few people asking. She also did not want the filibuster, which only gives more time for discussion - more posts, more discussion = good for Town. She is very defensive in this game - quick to jump on anyone (not just me) who suspects or questions her - I don't remember her being like that before. I'm leaving my vote as is. SilverJan, If you explain why you saw where guiri went, I can't unvote you at the point. I have to work and won't be here before EOD. Suburban Plankton - also did not want the filibuster and then flip-flopped about it. Combined with prior reasons in my previous post, I'm leaving my vote for him. I don't see why a Town Bill would not accept his sins be absolved even if he doesn't have any. A Scum Bill would not want to have sins absolved b/c it would reveal he is Scum when ryjae shows up dead. That and no real Scum-hunting and his OMGUS votes is making me think he's Scum. I was going to remove my vote from him so we could parse info from ryjae's offer, but he has refused to accept the offer so no info to parse if I'm reading ryjae's posts correctly. I'm keeping my vote on him. SisterC - Not sure about the post everyone suspects, but what does bother me is the No Lynch votes x2days. She is wrong about me as well - I do have have a sin - (and for the record, I am Christian). Maybe she has some wonky vote mechanic and that's why she's voting No Lynch. There's enough votes on her that I'm not going to add mine, b/c we gain sins if we lynch a Christian and if she is one, I don't want another sin. Wombat - I get what she's saying about getting sinless Christians to Heaven, BUT I think it's dangerous thinking to lynch off any Christians. Vote: Wombat [/color] I went way over time and now I have to scramble to get ready. Later.[/quote] Oh well, I suppose I have to answer this eventually. I can investigate someone at Night that I have voted for during the Day. I get results of who visits them and who they visit.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 12:29:59 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Feb 11, 2013 12:29:59 GMT -5
I like the sound of SisC's role but it doesn't sound very Christian. Why is Lauriern still alive, even she says she has a sin?
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:23:47 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 11, 2013 13:23:47 GMT -5
Really frustrated because I think we've given waaaaay too much information to the Devils.
I need to compose my thoughts.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:31:46 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Feb 11, 2013 13:31:46 GMT -5
Based on her claim, if SisterCoyote had received a result of Guilty but Laurie did not die, we could deduce that there was a protection or other interference. Given that the result was Innocent, protection of Laurie doesn't explain the disparity. Sister Coyote, can your investigation be redirected or otherwise interfered with? If you have information that Laurie has no sins but she says she does, apart from one of you being untruthful, can you think of an explanation? I'm struggling to see a townie you saying "Look, she's innocent" and a scummy Laurie saying "No, I'm not"...
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:33:25 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 11, 2013 13:33:25 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey thinks that laurie's late vote on Pollux is Scummy; apparently SisC agrees strongly enough to make laurie her Vig target. Except that I think Hockey Monkey's case is weak-sauce. Not that it's entirely without a point; much of what he says is correct. In fact, pretty much everything he says in his post except for one thing: nothing about laurie's vote is Scummy. ALL of HockeyMonkey's cases are weak sauce. The reason I'm not voting her right now is because of 1) her confirmation of MisterVisceral, and 2) her first-votor status regarding Patricia. (by the way, sorry for repeatedly calling you "him", HM. But your cases still do not add up to me. The Patricia case, which you voted on, was made out by somebody else.) SisC claims that she'd "vig" anybody with sin, and Laurien claims to have had sin last night. I, like other claimed Christians, started the game with a sin. If SisC had chosen to "investigate" me, would I now be dead? I see this going four ways. 1) SisC is lying about investigating Laurien, or about her power's effectiveness / function. 2) SisC is wrong about the consequences to her using her power on a person with sin. 3) SisC was roleblocked/redirected, and is unaware of it. 4) Laurien is lying about having a sin. If (3) is the case, then a person would have had to have used a manipulator power on her. (Incidentally, I will make the same point here as I made to Bill - one devil manipulator is already dead, and was before nightfall. How likely is it that they have another? Can devils possibly use their powers after death? Can anybody?) If (4) is the case, then Laurien presumably isn't a Christian (because she wouldn't lie to damn SisC if she knew she was telling the truth), nor is she a Devil (because, according to SisC herself and at least partially confirmed by Ryjae - am I wrong about that btw, Ryjae? - they all have sin). Ergo, Laurien is some kind of third-party making a play. Except that malicious win-stealing third-parties, according to my wincon, don't exist. I only need to beat the devils to win, not anybody else. If (1) is the case, SisC must have been counting on Laurien not contradicting her. If SisC is scum, I don't see why she would make that assumption. And if (2) is the case, I don't know what the heck we're supposed to do here. Ergo, my vote on SisC depends on two questions. Firstly, IS THERE A TOWN-ALIGNED ROLEBLOCKER / ROLE REDIRECTOR WHO WILL ADMIT TO TARGETING SISTER COYOTE.Second question to Pleonast. Are you able to confirm if dead players can still use their power roles on the living in this game?
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:37:40 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Feb 11, 2013 13:37:40 GMT -5
So: By SisC’s admission all Devils have sin- according to Idle most Christians have sin
sisC only kills players with sin
Could it be a 3rd Party power?
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:37:41 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Feb 11, 2013 13:37:41 GMT -5
Moley, why are you making this so complicated? The simple answer is that SisC is scum and is lying. She tried to invent an investigator role similar to ryjae's and messed it up.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:37:52 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 11, 2013 13:37:52 GMT -5
And add option 5), which others have thought of but I did not: a protection power that targeted Laurien. I don't think I can ask that kind of power to reveal themselves.
I'd be willing to trade public knowledge of a roleblocker to save a townie from lynch, but a doc? That's a pretty big sacrifice. If I was certain that the lynch would otherwise be scum, I'd say, yes, do it - a devil lynch is more important than any single power role - but right now the other leading candidate is BillMC. My thoughts on him are a lot more certain now that Idle has confirmed he has a potentially town-aligned reason to refuse Ryjae's offer.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:40:43 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 13:40:43 GMT -5
Based on her claim, if SisterCoyote had received a result of Guilty but Laurie did not die, we could deduce that there was a protection or other interference. Given that the result was Innocent, protection of Laurie doesn't explain the disparity. Sister Coyote, can your investigation be redirected or otherwise interfered with? If you have information that Laurie has no sins but she says she does, apart from one of you being untruthful, can you think of an explanation? I'm struggling to see a townie you saying "Look, she's innocent" and a scummy Laurie saying "No, I'm not"... I've said all along that Death by Inquisition can be prevented by protection etc. As far as redirection, my PM this Dawn said laurieRN was innocent. Not "the person you investigated" not some other weasel words. I am not Scum, and I am not Lying. Those of you voting for me are all going to have an additional sin.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:42:25 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 13:42:25 GMT -5
vote: Texcat
It might be Christian-on-Christian. It might be a Devil Texcat protecting a Devil Bill. I don't know. But Texcat has twisted my words, and continues to twist my words, and I Don't Like It.
Good luck, Christians. You're going to need it.
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Day Two
Feb 11, 2013 13:45:08 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 11, 2013 13:45:08 GMT -5
And since y'all think you have my supposedly Devilish ass in a sling, will you do yourselves a favor and look for the actual Devils?
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