Day Two

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Suburban has had votes down on both Townie Guiri and Townie Paranoia. I think my vote will likely land on either Suburban or Dizzy again by the time the Day is done.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

And Meeko doesn't get a pass, but he's at the bottom of my list of the pool of Guiri voters.

Meeko seems like Townie Meeko AKA The Most Frustrating Meeko for the moment. If he's Town, then he's just wrong. I may be wrong in some of my conjecture too, but one thing I know I'm right about, is how wrong Meeko's votes have been so far. That being said, there are limits to townie leans and he is not immune from a vote in my world view, for the right reasons.

[Colby11]

Looking at the votes from yesterday, if scum voted for Paranoia, then it's one of the top three (if Gnarly and Bill are to be believed)

The same thing applies to Dizzy, but we know they were town, along with Guiri.

I have a idea, what if the Guiri kill was done to throw everyone onto Pizza and Cookies?

I'm gonna go back and reread Day 1, and see if anything Guiri said stood out

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jul 9, 2013 23:52:14 GMT -5 Colby11 said:

Looking at the votes from yesterday, if scum voted for Paranoia, then it's one of the top three (if Gnarly and Bill are to be believed)

The same thing applies to Dizzy, but we know they were town, along with Guiri.

I have a idea, what if the Guiri kill was done to throw everyone onto Pizza and Cookies?

I'm gonna go back and reread Day 1, and see if anything Guiri said stood out

Why would the Guiri kill implicate me? Can you elaborate.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Guiri basically claimed a power role in backing up Gnarly's "I have a power described with just #1" thing. He would not be a surprising scum kill. If Gnarly is who he claims to be, scum may have thought he might get protection. If I were scum and Gnarly telling the truth, I would have been deciding between Guiri and Gnarly last Night.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jul 9, 2013 23:57:15 GMT -5 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies said:

Guiri basically claimed a power role in backing up Gnarly's "I have a power described with just #1" thing. He would not be a surprising scum kill. If Gnarly is who he claims to be, scum may have thought he might get protection. If I were scum and Gnarly telling the truth, I would have been deciding between Guiri and Gnarly last Night.

I appreciate this insight. I want you to also consider the possibility that gnarlycharlie isn't who he claims to be.

How does that factor into your analysis?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I want to highlight, for the record:

1) I have been accusing gnarlycharlie of being scum ever since he claimed. Before that, with less certainty, but nonetheless.

2) His response has been to largely ignore me. He's even voting for someone besides me.

3) He's posted on other forums recently, he's actually ducking this thread right now. He could have responded and is deliberately choosing not to.

He is not the town detectives you're looking for.

I realize I often blur the line between certainty and opinion, as recently as the last game I was in.

I will therefore speak more accurately. I do not know with absolute certainty that gnarlycharlie is lying. But if he is not lying, then I will be extremely confused.

Does this make my position clear?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I was adding some additional conjecture in my answer to Colby's question, which was "Why Guiri?". I am not assuming that Gnarly is who he says he is beyond the context of my post, but I'm not inclined to vote for Gnarly right now either.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Your opinion is clear but that seems to be all you have at this point.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If the scum have a Godfather, gnarlycharlie is not that person.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't know what he is. I know this:

Incy Wincy Spider climbing up the spout
Down came the rain and washed the spider out.

NAME: Incy Wincy Spider

SIDE: Duke of York

ROLE: Detective

WIN CONDITION: All threats to the Duke of York's side have been removed.

BACKGROUND:
You're nothing like your cousin who kept frightening Miss Muffet. Beside going up and down the water spout, you spend your time spinning webs and keeping an eye out for dangers. Since you have several eyes, you're a natural at it.

POWERS:

1. As a houseguest of the Grand Old Duke, you keep watch as best you can. Each Night you may try to learn the loyalty of one target.

2. If someone tries to squash you, you have a 50% chance of poisoning your killer, who will then die in two Days.

Furthermore:

Jun 29, 2013 12:31:39 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

I'd like to wave hello to some folks I haven't seen in a while.

Meeko, Pleo, Mahalo.... uhh Guiri-o, and Patrici-o. Runs with premise.

I'm also going to wave at Paranoid-o, who I am not sure I've played with before, but I wouldn't put it past me to have forgotten. My mind is like a steel sieve. Quick like the lazy dog-o. Like a melon, and only half as sharpo. Can't remember crapo. Although I usually remember mafia-related things, I'm almost 30 now, so I might as well be walking with a cane. Two legs just aren't enough-o.

Mirror, mirror, on the wall. Who is the fairest Pizzaguy of them all?

.o-hguone t'nera tsuj sgel owT .enac a htiw gniklaw eb llew sa thgim I os ,won 03 tsomla m'I ,sgniht detaler-aifam rebmemer yllausu I hguohtlA .oparc rebmemer t'naC .oprahs sa flah ylno dna ,nolem a ekiL .o-god yzal eht ekil kciuQ .eveis leets a ekil si dnim yM .nettogrof evah ot em tsap ti tup t'ndluow I tub ,erofeb htiw deyalp ev'I erus ton ma I ohw ,o-dionaraP ta evaw ot gniog osla m'I

.esimerp htiw snuR ): .o-icirtaP dna ,o-iriuG hhu ....olahaM ,oelP ,okeeM

.elihw a ni nees t'nevah I sklof emos ot olleh evaw ot ekil d'I

And let's just highlight the relevant data point.

.o-hguone t'nera tsuj sgel owT .enac a htiw gniklaw eb llew sa thgim I os ,won 03 tsomla m'I ,sgniht detaler-aifam rebmemer yllausu I hguohtlA .oparc rebmemer t'naC .oprahs sa flah ylno dna ,nolem a ekiL .o-god yzal eht ekil kciuQ .eveis leets a ekil si dnim yM .nettogrof evah ot em tsap ti tup t'ndluow I tub ,erofeb htiw deyalp ev'I erus ton ma I ohw ,o-dionaraP ta evaw ot gniog osla m'I

.esimerp htiw snuR ): .o-icirtaP dna ,o-iriuG hhu ....olahaM ,oelP ,okeeM

.elihw a ni nees t'nevah I sklof emos ot olleh evaw ot ekil d'I

Two legs just aren't enough-o. Because I have eight of them.

Oh what tangled webs we weave, when we set out to deceive.

[Askthepizzaguy]

As you can see, my counterclaim is not a convenient response to gnarly's posting of his role PM.

I had breadcrumbed Cop before the game began. And that I was a spider. And I mentioned my role PM did not simply have a 1. for powers, but also a 2.

I seriously doubt a game this size has two detectives. And to check my sanity, I scanned him last night.

He is either guilty, or I am a paranoid or insane cop. A role that is highly unlikely to exist in this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would like to suggest that the reference to "Oprahs" in my breadcrumb is entirely coincidental.

I am not a wealthy african-american woman, despite all the rumors.

[CatInASuit]

Day 2 Vote Count:

Cookies(1): meeko (#6)
Pleonast(1): Mahaloth (#24)
DizzyMrsLizzy(1): colby (#37)
Colby(1): GnarlyCharlie (#43)
Suburban Plankton(1): Pleonast (#45)
AskThePizzaGuy(1): BillMc (#51)
GnarlyCharlie(1): AskThePizzaGuy (#55)

BillMc(0): AskThePizzaGuy (#8-#55)


With these votes, as of post 37, Cookies will be lynched

[gnarlycharlie]

Jul 9, 2013 23:57:15 GMT -5 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies said:

Guiri basically claimed a power role in backing up Gnarly's "I have a power described with just #1" thing. He would not be a surprising scum kill. If Gnarly is who he claims to be, scum may have thought he might get protection. If I were scum and Gnarly telling the truth, I would have been deciding between Guiri and Gnarly last Night.

that's why i said that people shouldn't admit if they're PMs are similar. it would basically out themselves.

Jul 10, 2013 0:12:54 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

I want to highlight, for the record:

1) I have been accusing gnarlycharlie of being scum ever since he claimed. Before that, with less certainty, but nonetheless.

2) His response has been to largely ignore me. He's even voting for someone besides me.

3) He's posted on other forums recently, he's actually ducking this thread right now. He could have responded and is deliberately choosing not to.

He is not the town detectives you're looking for.

I realize I often blur the line between certainty and opinion, as recently as the last game I was in.

I will therefore speak more accurately. I do not know with absolute certainty that gnarlycharlie is lying. But if he is not lying, then I will be extremely confused.

Does this make my position clear?

tsk, tsk. employing meta to bolster your argument? that's very unlike you. if you must know, i was in a meeting and only had time for one board. it was a signup sheet at that.

by the way, for those who are unaware, my time zone is GMT+8, exactly 12 hours before EDT. hence i usually post at what most of you would think are odd hours.

Jul 10, 2013 0:33:01 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

As you can see, my counterclaim is not a convenient response to gnarly's posting of his role PM.

I had breadcrumbed Cop before the game began. And that I was a spider. And I mentioned my role PM did not simply have a 1. for powers, but also a 2.

I seriously doubt a game this size has two detectives. And to check my sanity, I scanned him last night.

He is either guilty, or I am a paranoid or insane cop. A role that is highly unlikely to exist in this game.

are you really claiming detective? why did you not counterclaim? isn't one townie for one scum a good deal? i agree, i doubt there are two detectives.

<unvote><unvote></unvote></unvote> Unvote: Colby

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[Askthepizzaguy]

Why did I not counterclaim. Let's see.

The instant I get murdered your claim becomes entirely discredited and you die. So I wasn't in a particularly big hurry. Plus, what happens when detectives claim? It destroys discussion, causes everyone to focus on the detective's claim and scan results. I figured you were caught scum, on the chopping block, and not immediately countering your claim meant that I could see what people's reactions to your imminent death would be, unmolested by my interference. It's one of the reasons I strongly suspected BillMc, who was one of your rescuers. I don't completely trust his mason claim, but for now I will accept he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I didn't counter, but I strongly condemned your claim and suggested I knew it was false. That's pretty much the same thing as a counter, since it exposes me to danger and pretty much tells the mafia who I am. However, given my secondary ability and my strong hinting that I knew you were full of it, I doubted town wouldn't be able to recover from my death, you'd be the next lynch.

Secondly, I wanted to see if the game host provided us with two detectives. I just sat through a game with two mason doctors. Some of you folks have odd setups. Scanning you is also good because I'm reasonably sure you must be guilty, therefore, having a scan result on a guilty party is important for establishing sanity, something you might think about doing when encountering multiple detectives. Detectives scanning one another is a great way of cutting through the bull.

I was attempting to have my cake and eat it too, but just like the last game, subtle hints are not town's strong suit. There will be no lynching you without a direct counter, or my death, or both. Slaying scum without losing the detective is better than an even trade.

And yes, I'm "really" claiming detective. I even claimed it before you did. Your claim appears to be a forgery, based off of the sample role PM, claimed simply because you were under pressure round one.

Detective claims, roleblocker claims, tracker claims... these are the usual scum claims to save oneself, because they work.

You could at least be more creative.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm glad I finally have your attention by the way. I see that direct accusation was enough to pull you out of the woodwork.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jul 10, 2013 4:45:36 GMT -5 gnarlycharlie said:

why did you not counterclaim?

I strongly suspect you wanted me to counterclaim, which is why you claimed detective.

It's the claim that forces the most valuable of town roles to be forced to counter, thus, it is the most damaging.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jul 10, 2013 4:45:36 GMT -5 gnarlycharlie said:

tsk, tsk. employing meta to bolster your argument? that's very unlike you.

Right, I've never commented on the scummy timing of scummy scumbags before.

Oh wait, yes I did. The last round I was alive in the very previous game I was in. So, from my perspective, all of two rounds ago.

I noticed you also ducked out of here immediately. What could you possibly be so afraid of?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh how I wish I wasn't here by myself talking to myself. I feel like Ian Malcolm from Jurassic Park.

Thats.... that's chaos theory.

[CatInASuit]

*CIAS prods ATPG*

Oi!! No editing posts.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jul 10, 2013 5:33:41 GMT -5 CatInASuit said:

*CIAS prods ATPG*

Oi!! No editing posts.

Darn it all. I am not used to that rule. My apologies glorious mod god.

[Meeko]

Jul 9, 2013 10:23:09 GMT -5 Pleonast said:

Jul 8, 2013 15:01:50 GMT -5 Meeko said:

Her comments look like a slip to me.

A slip of what? Please give us more to go on.

Jul 8, 2013 16:17:17 GMT -5 Meeko said:

And if every single vote on Guiri yesterday was placed by townies, you offing Guiri would feed right into your comments here.

How likely do you think that every single vote on guiri was placed by townies?

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

For now, I'm going to
vote Suburban Plankton
for their vote on guiri YesterDay.

I'm likely to change it once I think more about the final voting record.

A slip of PIS

I think it likely enough to comment on it to that effect.

Your line of questioning is beginning to be a fishing expedition my dear Pleo. Hopefully these answers are sufficient. One could, and does assume a "trick" question here.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Almost nothing of consequence posted in 9 hours, other than my revelation.

Couldn't even get Meeko to talk, even though he was right here. How is that even possible?

That would be like me lurking through a game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Please don't tell me you're all off celebrating Hump Day.

[Suburban Plankton]

Had an unexpected houseguest the last couple of days, so I'm just catching up...

Jul 9, 2013 21:49:13 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

Are you grokking what I'm insinuating?

Somebody else may have grokked this, but it went way over my head...

Jul 10, 2013 0:12:54 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

I want to highlight, for the record:

1) I have been accusing gnarlycharlie of being scum ever since he claimed. Before that, with less certainty, but nonetheless.

2) His response has been to largely ignore me. He's even voting for someone besides me.

3) He's posted on other forums recently, he's actually ducking this thread right now. He could have responded and is deliberately choosing not to.

He is not the town detectives you're looking for.

I realize I often blur the line between certainty and opinion, as recently as the last game I was in.

I will therefore speak more accurately. I do not know with absolute certainty that gnarlycharlie is lying. But if he is not lying, then I will be extremely confused.

Does this make my position clear?

Not really...it's clear that you're almost, but not quite, claiming something...but it might be nice if you just spit it out.

Jul 10, 2013 0:29:27 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

I don't know what he is. I know this:

<followed by (snipped out here bor some sense of brevity) the actual claim and posting of PM, and the posting of the 'breadcrumb'>

Well, it's about time...

Jul 10, 2013 4:58:06 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

Why did I not counterclaim. Let's see.

The instant I get murdered your claim becomes entirely discredited and you die. So I wasn't in a particularly big hurry. Plus, what happens when detectives claim? It destroys discussion, causes everyone to focus on the detective's claim and scan results. I figured you were caught scum, on the chopping block, and not immediately countering your claim meant that I could see what people's reactions to your imminent death would be, unmolested by my interference. It's one of the reasons I strongly suspected BillMc, who was one of your rescuers. I don't completely trust his mason claim, but for now I will accept he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I didn't counter, but I strongly condemned your claim and suggested I knew it was false. That's pretty much the same thing as a counter, since it exposes me to danger and pretty much tells the mafia who I am. However, given my secondary ability and my strong hinting that I knew you were full of it, I doubted town wouldn't be able to recover from my death, you'd be the next lynch.

Secondly, I wanted to see if the game host provided us with two detectives. I just sat through a game with two mason doctors. Some of you folks have odd setups. Scanning you is also good because I'm reasonably sure you must be guilty, therefore, having a scan result on a guilty party is important for establishing sanity, something you might think about doing when encountering multiple detectives. Detectives scanning one another is a great way of cutting through the bull.

I was attempting to have my cake and eat it too, but just like the last game, subtle hints are not town's strong suit. There will be no lynching you without a direct counter, or my death, or both. Slaying scum without losing the detective is better than an even trade.

And yes, I'm "really" claiming detective. I even claimed it before you did. Your claim appears to be a forgery, based off of the sample role PM, claimed simply because you were under pressure round one.

Detective claims, roleblocker claims, tracker claims... these are the usual scum claims to save oneself, because they work.

You could at least be more creative.

So, why did you counterclaim now?

I don't see what's changed between gnarly's claim yesterDay and now that makes you feel you need to your claim at this point. You weren't in any danger of being lynched. You made your 'subtle hints', but didn't really give us much time to discuss them. And now, by claiming you've pretty much "destroyed discussion, causing everyone to focus on the detective's claim and scan results", which is the very thing you just got finished telling us you didn't want to do.

I don't like it.

[Pleonast]

Pizzaguy, your result on gnarlycharlie is scum? Your hem-hawing and insinuations have left a rather muddled picture.

I'm not so sure your target last Night or your claim ToDay were especially helpful to town. Before your investigation, you had evidence that gnarlycharlie was lying. It's better to investigate players you have no knowledge of. And your claim is setting yourself up to be killed. gnarly is not the last scum; as you already stated, whenever you claimed or are killed, we'd all know the problem with their claim.

But despite the mistakes, I do not think you're lying. I'll vote for gnarly once you confirm they investigated as scum.

Jul 10, 2013 5:42:18 GMT -5 Meeko said:

]A slip of PIS

I think it likely enough to comment on it to that effect.

Your line of questioning is beginning to be a fishing expedition my dear Pleo. Hopefully these answers are sufficient. One could, and does assume a "trick" question here.

Detune your paranoia.

I was simply asking to better understand what you were saying. What PIS specifically do you think Cookies showed? They're a good player, and a PIS slip is the best way to catch them. But you need to spell it out explicitly, so the rest of us can see it too.

And if the PIS you see depends on assuming that the guiri voters are all town, you need to justify that assumption.

[Suburban Plankton]

Jul 9, 2013 10:23:09 GMT -5 Pleonast said:

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

For now, I'm going to
vote Suburban Plankton
for their vote on guiri YesterDay.

I'm likely to change it once I think more about the final voting record.

Jul 9, 2013 11:04:57 GMT -5 Pleonast said:

Day One Vote Count

dizzymrslizzy has 5 votes from texcat (5-16), silverjan (91-162), guiri (97), DarkCookies (101), askthepizzaguy (170), silverjan (200), paranoia (204).
paranoia has 5 votes from texcat (86), pleonast (123), Suburban Plankton (124), Gnarlycharlie (157), BillMc (178).
Gnarlycharlie has 2 votes from askthepizzaguy (49-170), colby (61), patricia (82), paranoia (153-204), silverjan (162-200).
guiri has 2 votes from colby (2-2), dizzymrslizzy (19), meeko (26), Suburban Plankton (36-46), Gnarlycharlie (38-157).
colby has 1 vote from Jaade (79), mahaloth (93-156).
pleonast has 1 vote from mahaloth (156).
askthepizzaguy has no votes.
BillMc has no votes.
DarkCookies has no votes.
Jaade has 0 votes from texcat (16-40), paranoia (100-153).
mahaloth has no votes.
meeko has 0 votes from Suburban Plankton (46-124).
patricia has no votes.
silverjan has no votes.
Suburban Plankton has 0 votes from guiri (1-97), pleonast (39-123), paranoia (74-100).
texcat has no votes.
No Lynch has no votes.

askthepizzaguy has voted for Gnarlycharlie (49-170), dizzymrslizzy (170).
BillMc has voted for paranoia (178).
colby has voted for guiri (2-2), Gnarlycharlie (61).
DarkCookies has voted for dizzymrslizzy (101).
dizzymrslizzy has voted for guiri (19).
Gnarlycharlie has voted for guiri (38-157), paranoia (157).
guiri has voted for Suburban Plankton (1-97), dizzymrslizzy (97).
Jaade has voted for colby (79).
mahaloth has voted for colby (93-156), pleonast (156).
meeko has voted for guiri (26).
paranoia has voted for Suburban Plankton (74-100), Jaade (100-153), Gnarlycharlie (153-204), dizzymrslizzy (204).
patricia has voted for Gnarlycharlie (82).
pleonast has voted for Suburban Plankton (39-123), paranoia (123).
silverjan has voted for dizzymrslizzy (91-162), Gnarlycharlie (162-200), dizzymrslizzy (200).
Suburban Plankton has voted for guiri (36-46), meeko (46-124), paranoia (124).
texcat has voted for dizzymrslizzy (5-16), Jaade (16-40), paranoia (86).

Town

This is just lazy. I placed an admittedly worthless "up yours" vote on guiri on Day 1. You placed a vote on me because of it. So far, that's all fine and good.

But Today you're just not putting in any effort. Instead of considering any of the events of the previous Night, or the previous Day's lynch, you're just carrying everything over from yesterDay. . And you're looking for patterns in the Day 1 voting? I admire your optimism, but it's pretty hard to find trends in a single set of data points. I guess I should give you some props for not actually finding anything significant in the Day 1 votes, but I'd rather you spent some time and effort actually looking at the events that happened instead of just 'standing pat'.




And what's up with that extra

Town

at the bottom of your post there?

[Pleonast]

Jul 10, 2013 10:09:48 GMT -5 Suburban Plankton said:

But Today you're just not putting in any effort. Instead of considering any of the events of the previous Night, or the previous Day's lynch, you're just carrying everything over from yesterDay. . And you're looking for patterns in the Day 1 voting? I admire your optimism, but it's pretty hard to find trends in a single set of data points. I guess I should give you some props for not actually finding anything significant in the Day 1 votes, but I'd rather you spent some time and effort actually looking at the events that happened instead of just 'standing pat'.


And what's up with that extra
Town
at the bottom of your post there?

Perhaps you didn't read the post following the one you quoted:

Jul 9, 2013 11:22:27 GMT -5 Pleonast said:

The voting record makes dizzymrslizzy look bad. Three of their voters are dead the next Day. Plus their vote on guiri. I'd be voting for them, except for the claim. I'm not willing to vote a claimed power role quite this early, although it's very tempting.

I guess I'll leave my vote Plankton for now.

silverjan's death is hard to explain.

My analysis of the Night's events is that lizzy looks bad. Especially note the "I'd be voting for them, except for the claim".

The blue "Town" is the color key.

[Suburban Plankton]

Jul 8, 2013 15:01:50 GMT -5 Meeko said:

Her comments look like a slip to me.

I don't think Cookies' comments are an indication of PIS.

I do think they're an example of Monday morning quarterbacking. She had a 'feeling' that guiri was Town. It turns out she was right, therefore her other suspicions must all be correct as well. The same attitude is on display here

Jul 8, 2013 15:37:43 GMT -5 Askthepizzaguy said:

It was pretty damned obvious he was townie to anyone who was paying attention.

I have absolutely no special knowledge or perfect information either. He was simply acting like how townies should be acting D1, and how scumbags almost never behave. It's called reading people.

Of course, it's SOP for Pizzaguy to have nothing less than supreme confidence in his views.