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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 8, 2013 10:30:17 GMT -5
Meeko, why do you think Idle is hiding something? He has posted his PM, do you think he edited it? As for the rest of your post, forgive me but I can't make head nor tail of it.
Vote FruitAndGarbage
There is no evidence that Idle is a PFK, if he was then why wouldn't he just copy and paste a Vanilla Town role. It doesn't make sense to me that Idle would attract so much attention very early on D1 if he wasn't being honest. Even if he is lying to everyone, why not leave to for a Vig to take care of? You don't seem to think he is scum and scum are a lot more dangerous than a PFK at this moment. Idle cannot fulfil his wincon in one Day.
Vote Meeko
I can't parse why but he has said he could take Idle's claim either way but he prefers to take the scummy view. Fence sitting???
There have been quite a few games where the role names don't actually match the character roles, I mean bad guys in the story can be good guys in the game.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 8, 2013 10:39:29 GMT -5
I am suspicious about this claim as well. It's just a nice way for a win stealer to explain why people are getting messages about being kissed on the forehead at night. It's also a pretty powerful role and, as others have pointed out, your chances of winning might have been damaged by your claim. I don't know you but I get that you claim early often but why with a role like this? Why would you even sign up for a game if you didn't intent to play for the win? Then, if you play for the win, why do something on Day 1 that might hurt your chances? I am also suspicious of a win-stealer falsely claiming. But an unforced claim as third party is not evidence of being a win stealer. Most players with Idle's powers who also were win stealers, would claim to be a town protector. Claiming to be town is always a better bet than claiming to be third party. I can't remember any time that a PFK claimed to be 3rd-party, but many times that one has claimed to be town. I'm not seeing how claiming early has hurt Idle's chances of winning, if they are being truthful. If it is a truthful claim, town has no incentive to lynch them. Scum have little incentive to kill them, since the protection cannot be repeated, only protects town from scum for one Night, and will generally be targeted to players who look to survive to the end the game anyway. I'd probably do a full claim, too, if I had the role Idle claims to have. The motivation to piece out, and self editorialize a role, and NOT offer explanations similar to the two reasons I gave above (The rationale to change named players from their assumed powers, and the distance between the characters of the novels and the characters as portrayed in the movie) can never be pro-town. I can argue both ways, but the ping remains. Perhaps you missed the post where Idle did a full quote of their alleged role PM. c'mon. Fruit is low-hanging, well, fruit. i can imagine someone new to our boards to be surprised at this behavior. furthermore, i believe scum, in general, will avoid doing something controversial to draw attention to themselves, especially D1. he voted for Idle despite statements by others that the early claim is not unusual nor particularly scummy. his vote certainly draws attention. i find your vote opportunistic. I'm actually happy about your argument. A year ago, we'd have a bunch of the players howling to lynch the claimed third party, simply because they're not town. As one of the players who's always advocated how counter-productive policy lynches of third-parties is, I'm glad to see someone think that trying to lynch a third is controversial. Unfortunately, I do not think Fruit is as enlightened, and thinks that lynching a claimed third party is an obvious one. Read again their reasoning for their vote on Idle. Is it at all controversial? No. Fruit is trying to lynch a player who isn't town, simply because we can't be certain of their alignment. That's not pushing the envelope, that's fear-mongering. Which I consider to be a good scum tell. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It seems post previewing has been disabled? That's real nuisance. Apologies for any coding errors because I can't check them.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 8, 2013 11:34:57 GMT -5
Good Morning and the Mod needs her coffee vote count: Idle Thoughts (3,3): FruitAndGarbage [33]; Meeko [49]; swammerdami [53, 53]; thelastdays [55,55,56] FruitAndGarbage (3,3): Pleonast [37]; swammerdami [53]; silverjan [60] Pleonast (3,3): swammerdami [53]; gnarlycharlie [54]; thelastdays [55,55,56] Meeko (2,2): swammerdami [53]; silverjan [60] gnarlycharlie (1,1): swammerdami [53] Colby11 (1,1): swammerdami [53] BillMc (1,1): swammerdami [53] TheLastDays (1,1): swammerdami [53] xArchangelx (1,1): swammerdami [53] dizzymrslizzy (1,1): swammerdami [53] Chameleon (1,1): swammerdami [53] silverjan (1,1): swammerdami [53] Mahaloth (1,1): swammerdami [53] patricia (1,1): swammerdami [53] swammerdami (1,1): swammerdami [53,53]; gnarlycharlie [54] Suburban Plankton (1,1): swammerdami [53] With these votes, Idle Thoughts will be lynched. And swammerdami, vote counts on this board have to be done by hand, which is fine. But I did warn you I might curse your name.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 8, 2013 11:41:55 GMT -5
vote: IdleAs I said before, I don't get the claim. He plays to win, otherwise he wouldn't play. If he is what he says he is this claim could easily hurt his chances to win. I don't think he would deliberately hurt his own chances of winning. My conclusion (surely not the only one possible but the one I find most likely): He is not, what he says he is. It's okay, I forgive your being new to playing in games with me. In 4-5 games down the line after I've claimed on Day one and shown to be telling the truth, though, you'll eventually become one of those "Idle always does this, though" people like others are.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 8, 2013 11:43:36 GMT -5
Selective. You are being selective here. You're being retarded here. I'm not even going to read anything else you said because none of it makes any sense and you couldn't be more wrong.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Oct 8, 2013 11:43:39 GMT -5
Meeko, why do you think Idle is hiding something? He has posted his PM, do you think he edited it? As for the rest of your post, forgive me but I can't make head nor tail of it. Vote FruitAndGarbageThere is no evidence that Idle is a PFK, if he was then why wouldn't he just copy and paste a Vanilla Town role. It doesn't make sense to me that Idle would attract so much attention very early on D1 if he wasn't being honest. Even if he is lying to everyone, why not leave to for a Vig to take care of? You don't seem to think he is scum and scum are a lot more dangerous than a PFK at this moment. Idle cannot fulfil his wincon in one Day. he isn't saying that there's evidence that Idle might be a PFK. he's saying it could be a cover. also why assume there's a vig? what if there isn't one?
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Oct 8, 2013 11:51:02 GMT -5
I'm not seeing how claiming early has hurt Idle's chances of winning, if they are being truthful. If it is a truthful claim, town has no incentive to lynch them. Scum have little incentive to kill them, since the protection cannot be repeated, only protects town from scum for one Night, and will generally be targeted to players who look to survive to the end the game anyway. I'd probably do a full claim, too, if I had the role Idle claims to have. scum might think he's a threat and kill him. there may or may not be a vig. he can't be sure. it's a big risk to take.
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Oct 8, 2013 13:43:37 GMT -5
I'm certainly not policy-lynching a third-party because they're a third-party: in the last game, I was (one of?) the first one(s) to argue against such a lynch, despite being scum and third-party-chasing being a pretty decent way for scum to kill time and dodge the noose. The lynch here is based entirely on the fact that a) I don't see Idle as being very helpful to town if he is truthful and can very reasonably see a situation in which he's not and is therefore actively detrimental, and b) I don't as yet see anyone else in particular that strikes me as suspicious, so there's not much else to follow up on.
The only thing I regret about the vote is how much it's monopolized the day's conversation, which makes it less likely for anyone else to slip. Still, given that Idle claimed within the first handful of posts, I think things would have gone that way with or without me.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 8, 2013 14:26:53 GMT -5
Meeko, why do you think Idle is hiding something? He has posted his PM, do you think he edited it? As for the rest of your post, forgive me but I can't make head nor tail of it. Vote FruitAndGarbageThere is no evidence that Idle is a PFK, if he was then why wouldn't he just copy and paste a Vanilla Town role. It doesn't make sense to me that Idle would attract so much attention very early on D1 if he wasn't being honest. Even if he is lying to everyone, why not leave to for a Vig to take care of? You don't seem to think he is scum and scum are a lot more dangerous than a PFK at this moment. Idle cannot fulfil his wincon in one Day. he isn't saying that there's evidence that Idle might be a PFK. he's saying it could be a cover. also why assume there's a vig? what if there isn't one? There might not be a Vig but if Idle is telling there truth then it looks as if there could be a Town role that can kill at Night. It could be a cover, I am not saying I am 100% convinced but I don't see that he is such a great threat toDay even if he is lying. I cannot actually see reason for him to claim such a strange role on D1 if he is a PFK or scum.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 8, 2013 14:53:43 GMT -5
Selective. You are being selective here. You're being retarded here. I'm not even going to read anything else you said because none of it makes any sense and you couldn't be more wrong. Looking back on it, this was a bad choice of words and I apologize. I shouldn't have said that first thing.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 8, 2013 15:58:46 GMT -5
2 things wrong with that: 1. I asked for clarification and was told it doesn't prevent a lynch, rather a DAY KILL...so, I guess there are roles in this game that can kill in the day, either regularly or a one shot. You had asked for clarification but chose to omit that when you posted your role? So that now makes it: a) On the first night you provide absolute protection b) On the second day you provide protection from any town on town day kill c) On the second night you provide protection from town on town kills, and pfk/scum on scum kills d) and you get mod confirmed as being truthful when you protect someone. a) is neutral and benefits town and scum equally b) is pro-town and for it to be useful there needs to be a town player with a day kill - so in addition to everything else, you are also in the position to confirm someone as town. c) leans towards town, as a scum on scum kill is unlikely (checks to see if Pizza is playing) so as a 3rd party neutral role, you are heavily pro-town
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 8, 2013 18:55:05 GMT -5
Vote Meeko
Terribly lame vote on Idle and I don't agree with killing Idle anyway.
Idle, I did not see your full role PM despite my looking. I'll go back and look again.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 8, 2013 18:58:18 GMT -5
Ah, found it, Idle. My bad.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 8, 2013 19:05:00 GMT -5
I'm voting everyone who is voting to kill Idle.
If I missed anyone, I will add them when I see a vote count.
vote Pleo vote Swammer vote Fruitandgarbage vote thelastdays
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 8, 2013 21:14:26 GMT -5
Selective. You are being selective here. You're being retarded here. I'm not even going to read anything else you said because none of it makes any sense and you couldn't be more wrong. Don't hate me when I'm right, that position is currently filled.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 8, 2013 21:16:31 GMT -5
Vote Meeko Terribly lame vote on Idle and I don't agree with killing Idle anyway. Idle, I did not see your full role PM despite my looking. I'll go back and look again. Maha, we are asking for the same thing from Idle. You should be voting for yourself if you are voting for me.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 8, 2013 21:18:26 GMT -5
Is vote-counting automated? If not I apologize. But it does seem best to be upfront about my suspicions. Vote: gnarlycharlieVote: Colby11Vote: FruitandGarbageVote: BillMcVote: TheLastDaysVote: xArchangelxVote: dizzymrslizzyVote: ChameleonVote: Idle ThoughtsVote: silverjanVote: MahalothVote: patriciaVote: swammerdamiVote: PleonastVote: MeekoVote: Suburban PlanktonI'll unvote if/when I get a Town lean: Unvote: swammerdamiI think there's a very good chance Idle is a win-stealer or Scum, but it may be safe to keep him alive at least for a short while. Maybe an Investigator will target him, or he'll agree to a partial demonstration of his Power. Unvote: Idle ThoughtsIf it pleases your kangaroo court, what are my charges?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 8, 2013 21:23:30 GMT -5
Meeko, why do you think Idle is hiding something? He has posted his PM, do you think he edited it? As for the rest of your post, forgive me but I can't make head nor tail of it. Vote FruitAndGarbageThere is no evidence that Idle is a PFK, if he was then why wouldn't he just copy and paste a Vanilla Town role. It doesn't make sense to me that Idle would attract so much attention very early on D1 if he wasn't being honest. Even if he is lying to everyone, why not leave to for a Vig to take care of? You don't seem to think he is scum and scum are a lot more dangerous than a PFK at this moment. Idle cannot fulfil his wincon in one Day. Vote MeekoI can't parse why but he has said he could take Idle's claim either way but he prefers to take the scummy view. Fence sitting??? There have been quite a few games where the role names don't actually match the character roles, I mean bad guys in the story can be good guys in the game. Where is the role posted Silverjan? Anticipating, I want the cut and paste of his PM Anything else means he is hiding something. Even then, it could be a fake PM or a second supplied role. My vote is not based on the name, it is based on the motivation, as evidenced in the bizarre "claim"
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 8, 2013 21:24:55 GMT -5
So what is it guys?
I actually give thoughtful posts and reasons with votes, and you guys vote me even faster.
Why would I want to give reasons ever again?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 8, 2013 21:31:16 GMT -5
Hey Meeko.... Idle did Copy/Paste "his PM" It's on the bottom of Page 1 if this link doesn't work. www.idlemafia.com/post/109489And FWIW, Thank you for explaining yourself! I'm not ready to vote Idle yet, but I'm right there on the line.
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Oct 9, 2013 2:00:19 GMT -5
There is no way I'm going to be able to keep votes tabulated for myself in a game with a voting system like this, so can we get periodic, frequent votal updates from the mod please? Twice a day at least would be nice, but more if she's got time would be super helpful for me.
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Post by swammerdami on Oct 9, 2013 3:23:43 GMT -5
I'm voting everyone who is voting to kill Idle. vote Swammer Not only am I not voting Idle, I'm in effect casting a negative vote for him as I'm voting everyone else. I might vote you for this skimming slur ... but I'm voting you already.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 9, 2013 7:48:57 GMT -5
Meeko, why do you think Idle is hiding something? He has posted his PM, do you think he edited it? As for the rest of your post, forgive me but I can't make head nor tail of it. Vote FruitAndGarbageThere is no evidence that Idle is a PFK, if he was then why wouldn't he just copy and paste a Vanilla Town role. It doesn't make sense to me that Idle would attract so much attention very early on D1 if he wasn't being honest. Even if he is lying to everyone, why not leave to for a Vig to take care of? You don't seem to think he is scum and scum are a lot more dangerous than a PFK at this moment. Idle cannot fulfil his wincon in one Day. Vote MeekoI can't parse why but he has said he could take Idle's claim either way but he prefers to take the scummy view. Fence sitting??? There have been quite a few games where the role names don't actually match the character roles, I mean bad guys in the story can be good guys in the game. Where is the role posted Silverjan? Anticipating, I want the cut and paste of his PM Anything else means he is hiding something. Even then, it could be a fake PM or a second supplied role. My vote is not based on the name, it is based on the motivation, as evidenced in the bizarre "claim" Dizzy has pointed out where his claim is. It looks as if it wouldn't matter to you though because you aren't going to believe it anyway. Why would the Mod give anyone a 3rd Party role as a cover role, now that sounds bizarre.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 9, 2013 7:53:28 GMT -5
Hey Meeko.... Idle did Copy/Paste "his PM" It's on the bottom of Page 1 if this link doesn't work. www.idlemafia.com/post/109489And FWIW, Thank you for explaining yourself! I'm not ready to vote Idle yet, but I'm right there on the line. Why are you right on the line? Do you think he is still a jester or do you think he's scum or a PFK? Vote DizzyMrsLizzyHer posts are pinging me, there is no real substance to them.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 9, 2013 8:15:55 GMT -5
I'm voting everyone who is voting to kill Idle. vote Swammer Not only am I not voting Idle, I'm in effect casting a negative vote for him as I'm voting everyone else. I might vote you for this skimming slur ... but I'm voting you already. Ah, my bad. Unvote Swammer
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Oct 9, 2013 9:18:30 GMT -5
Hey Meeko.... Idle did Copy/Paste "his PM" It's on the bottom of Page 1 if this link doesn't work. www.idlemafia.com/post/109489And FWIW, Thank you for explaining yourself! I'm not ready to vote Idle yet, but I'm right there on the line. Why are you right on the line? Do you think he is still a jester or do you think he's scum or a PFK? Vote DizzyMrsLizzyHer posts are pinging me, there is no real substance to them. I always Ping you Jan whether I'm Town/Scum/3rd Party. So aren't my pings a Null tell at this point? Anyway, I'm on the line because There's something about his claim that isn't sitting right with me at face value. It just is way too powerful. And as Pleo pointed out even as a "protection role" there is no logical reason as to why Idle would play Pro-Town. Call me paranoid, but after getting blindly duped by the PFK Mad Bomber Texcat in the last game, I'm a little skeptical of a non-PFK Mad bomber role. I'm on the line, because the thought that maybe He's a Jester role and made up this I protect anyone/everyone stuff as a cover is making me hesitant, although hearing that he routinely does this makes me back off that case. Right now, I think he's most likely a PFK.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 9, 2013 9:39:18 GMT -5
I am mobile.
I have read the role Idle provided.
After reading the role, I believe I can give benefit of the doubt, for lack of better words.
Unvote Idle
Vote Swammerdami
The entire multi vote thing has got to stop. I wouldn't live it down if I didn't call it outright.
I've been in two games now with a similar role, there are no such benefits as above here.
Hopefully I got the tags right, doing it by hand as the ios interface on iPod lacks the full formatting options.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 9, 2013 10:46:01 GMT -5
FruitAndGarbage (4,4): Pleonast [37]; swammerdami [53]; silverjan [60]; Mahaloth [73] Pleonast (4,4): swammerdami [53]; gnarlycharlie [54]; thelastdays [55,55,56], Mahaloth [73] swammerdami (3,3): swammerdami [53,53]; gnarlycharlie [54]; Mahaloth [73]; Meeko [86] Meeko (3,3): swammerdami [53]; silverjan [60]; Mahaloth [71] Idle Thoughts (2,3): FruitAndGarbage [33]; Meeko [49,86]; swammerdami [53, 53]; thelastdays [55,55,56] dizzymrslizzy (2,2): swammerdami [53]; silverjan [83] gnarlycharlie (1,1): swammerdami [53] Colby11 (1,1): swammerdami [53] BillMc (1,1): swammerdami [53] TheLastDays (1,1): swammerdami [53] xArchangelx (1,1): swammerdami [53] Chameleon (1,1): swammerdami [53] silverjan (1,1): swammerdami [53] Mahaloth (1,1): swammerdami [53] patricia (1,1): swammerdami [53] Suburban Plankton (1,1): swammerdami [53] With these votes, FruitAndGarbage will be lynched. There is no way I'm going to be able to keep votes tabulated for myself in a game with a voting system like this, so can we get periodic, frequent votal updates from the mod please? Twice a day at least would be nice, but more if she's got time would be super helpful for me. My goal is to do vote counts a minimum of twice per day, however I have to get them in around my work/doctor schedule so on occasion they're going to be a bit more erratic. I will do my best.
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Post by Silver Jan on Oct 9, 2013 11:14:09 GMT -5
Why are you right on the line? Do you think he is still a jester or do you think he's scum or a PFK? Vote DizzyMrsLizzyHer posts are pinging me, there is no real substance to them. I always Ping you Jan whether I'm Town/Scum/3rd Party. So aren't my pings a Null tell at this point? Anyway, I'm on the line because There's something about his claim that isn't sitting right with me at face value. It just is way too powerful. And as Pleo pointed out even as a "protection role" there is no logical reason as to why Idle would play Pro-Town. Call me paranoid, but after getting blindly duped by the PFK Mad Bomber Texcat in the last game, I'm a little skeptical of a non-PFK Mad bomber role. I'm on the line, because the thought that maybe He's a Jester role and made up this I protect anyone/everyone stuff as a cover is making me hesitant, although hearing that he routinely does this makes me back off that case. Right now, I think he's most likely a PFK. You don't always ping me lol, once I was right and you were Town (insert smiley). I am not 100% sure of Idle either but the role isn't actually all that powerful, it just protects against being killed by ones own side by mistake. Two Night in a row is rather a lot I admit but I am very interested to see what happens. Of course I will be watching him very closely but for toDay I would much prefer to find a real scum and if he is PFK then we can lynch him later.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 9, 2013 11:17:22 GMT -5
It's okay, I forgive your being new to playing in games with me. In 4-5 games down the line after I've claimed on Day one and shown to be telling the truth, though, you'll eventually become one of those "Idle always does this, though" people like others are. This is a terrible idea. Past games do not tell us anything about alignment or motivations in the current game. Idle, you're suggesting someone to play stupid. Please don't do this. he isn't saying that there's evidence that Idle might be a PFK. he's saying it could be a cover. also why assume there's a vig? what if there isn't one? Saying a claim could be a cover is useless. Of course it could. So what? Until we get more evidence one way or another, we can't tell. Advocating we lynch someone simply because they could be hiding something is not helpful. Every player is hiding something. We need something more than a vague fear to lynch someone. scum might think he's a threat and kill him. there may or may not be a vig. he can't be sure. it's a big risk to take. That's possible even if no claim has been made. So what is it guys? I actually give thoughtful posts and reasons with votes, and you guys vote me even faster. Why would I want to give reasons ever again? You're looking crazy because you're demanding that Idle post their full role PM, and they already have. But despite that, I'm actually rather suspicious of the votes on Meeko so far. Making an obvious error is not a scum tell, and they should self-correct at some point. (That goes for Mahaloth as well.) Let's take a closer look at those votes. swammerdami Post 53: votes everyone except a couple players they think are not suspicious. Not a strong vote, but defensible. silverjan Post 60: accuses Meeko of fence-sitting. While Meeko can be incoherent and ranty, the basic gist of their argument against Idle is the lack of a full-PM claim. I don't think Meeko was fence-sitting at all, but attempting to explain their problem with Idle. This is a poor vote. vote silverjan for voting someone for making an explanatory vote. Mahaloth Post 71: accuses Meeko of a lame vote. I'm not seeing it. Like jan this feels like a vote on a player for trying to explain themself. vote Mahaloth for voting someone for making an explanatory vote. My goal is to do vote counts a minimum of twice per day, however I have to get them in around my work/doctor schedule so on occasion they're going to be a bit more erratic. I will do my best. As both a moderator and a player, I've always it easier to keep current vote counts in a separate thread, and simply update the post as the count is update. (Of course you also need to put in what post the count is current with.) You already have a thread for final vote counts, why don't you the counts there?
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