Day Three

[NAF1138]

pygmyrugger said:

Umm.. NAF? Pleo has the most votes against him right now.

*sigh* I know what you mean about not having time for this... Damn DoE documents!

He does? Oh, he does. (See, posting when I should be working is bad) Well hardly anyone is voting at this point, (only 8 of 20 votes are in)and Pleo only has 4 votes. Also, it really does feel like the same people are hounding the Pleo wagon (as atarus said), while everyone else is looking at non pleo players and ending up with one offs.

Humor me, would the folks voting for Pleo at least all throw out an official "I will change my vote to (player name here) if Pleo's lynch isn't continuing to gain momentum"? I just want to see where we as a town are headed if we take Pleo out of the equation.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

pygmyrugger said:

Those that wouldn't be confused include those who have been following the game, and know that I've called you out several times for saying I shouldn't have a vote, which would have, in effect, caused the electrocution of the person you were voting for, instead.

I think you give way too much credit as to how readable your earlier posts from toDay were. I'm clear on why you suspect me. You're wrong, but it is clear. What I am less clear on is why you suspect the others (besides Pleo). Is it only because they have voted to kill Dio and zuma1 instead of joining you on the Pleo bandwagon?

[storyteller0910]

PAGE FIVE VOTE COUNT

Pleonast (4) - zuma v. 2.0, sinjin, Roosh, Santo Rugger
Death by Irony (2) - atarus, Captain Klutz
kassia (1) - Pleonast
sinjin (1) - Zeriel
Zeriel (1) - Parzival


Nine votes have been cast. The Day will end in approximately 28 hours, at 5:00PM EST on Wednesday, December 5.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

cometothedarkside said:

pygmyrugger said:

Those that wouldn't be confused include those who have been following the game, and know that I've called you out several times for saying I shouldn't have a vote, which would have, in effect, caused the electrocution of the person you were voting for, instead.

I think you give way too much credit as to how readable your earlier posts from toDay were. I'm clear on why you suspect me. You're wrong, but it is clear. What I am less clear on is why you suspect the others (besides Pleo). Is it only because they have voted to kill Dio and zuma1 instead of joining you on the Pleo bandwagon?

NETA: I realize some level of suspicion is due to the timing of their votes against Dio and zuma1...but is there anything else?

[Santo Rugger]

cometothedarkside said:

cometothedarkside said:

<snip>
NETA: I realize some level of suspicion is due to the timing of their votes against Dio and zuma1...but is there anything else?

P-man sums up some suspicions I have in posts 23-25, IIRC, of Cookies, Z-man, and sinjin. Roosh sums them up quite nicely in posts 60 and 63, again, IIRC.

Death by Irony pinged me hard when she sent out an FoS to people for trying to figure out who killed who in past Nights, and then started talking about the color of who killed who in post 15 today. In that post, she also put out an idea about getting a cop to reveal themselves, which I found odd, at best.

[Drain Bead]

At this point, I'm thinking that both Roosh and Pleonast are scummy. Pleonast has had his head on the block for days now. At this point I think he's serving to distract us from what's really going on. I had the horrible idea toDay that he was some sort of role that has a power activated by being day-killed, that's how bad some of his logic has been in the last few days. It's like he's trying to get killed. Does anyone else feel that way, or am I just WIFOMing too much? Is that a verb?

I have three hours until my self-imposed deadline. I just don't know.

[CatInASuit]

pygmyrugger said:

I'm not sure there's much to say more than what I've said already. I think Pleo's role is a scum role that takes two Nights to activate a kill, and that was a special power unique to his [scum] role. In order for that kill to work, one or two of his scum buddies would have to save him.

Hmm, could you explain this a bit further. From the colour it looks like all of the replicants have "special powers". Are you suggesting that in order to prevent Pleonast being lynched and so leaving a trail for later on, that other replicants would vote in his favour to allow him time to plant his bomb?

[Santo Rugger]

catinasuit said:

<snip>
Hmm, could you explain this a bit further. From the colour it looks like all of the replicants have "special powers". Are you suggesting that in order to prevent Pleonast being lynched and so leaving a trail for later on, that other replicants would vote in his favour to allow him time to plant his bomb?

Basically. They may have felt the gambit was worth it, and didn't feel the trail they left was distinct enough to be picked up on. This is, of course, speculation based on Pleo being scum. I'm not sure if it's selection bias, but it really struck me that almost all the players I've found suspicious show up as part of the people who voted "against" Pleo in the last 24 hours of a Day.

[Pleonast]

And we're headed for another Day with an ill-informed rush to vote at the end. Come on, people, post and vote! I have almost no free time this week, and yet I've put up some analysis and voted.

The slackers:
diggitcamara - 1 post, no vote
kassia - 1 post, no vote
Kat v. 2.0 (Yattara) - 1 post, no vote
Tragic (hazelnutcoffee) - 2 posts, no vote

There's more who've posted some, but haven't voted yet. Why? Delaying does not help the Colony.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Rugger, do you want to outline what your arguments will be if my electrocution confirms my role claim? Do you think the information gained will be worth the Colony's loss of my power?

[Santo Rugger]

pleonast said:

<snip>Rugger, do you want to outline what your arguments will be if my electrocution confirms my role claim? Do you think the information gained will be worth the Colony's loss of my power?

Funny that you use "if", rather than win. But, I digress. If your death shows you were telling the truth, I'll rescind my analysis of players that is now based partially on them saving you very near the end of the Day.

I think you're lying, so I think the information gained will be more than worth the loss of your life, and therefore your power. Assuming, for the sake of the argument, that you are telling the truth, I do not like one bit that you have a power that allows you a kill that you are basically not accountable for. Unless the color specifically says somebody was blowed up (heh), we have no way of knowing who your actual target was. Even if you tell us the Day before it happens, that doesn't prove your alignment in any way.

[Santo Rugger]

Grr, rough day...

Should have been:

"Funny that you use "if", rather than "when".

[NAF1138]

naf1138 said:

Humor me, would the folks voting for Pleo at least all throw out an official "I will change my vote to (player name here) if Pleo's lynch isn't continuing to gain momentum"? I just want to see where we as a town are headed if we take Pleo out of the equation.

pygmyrugger said:

Funny that you use "if", rather than win. But, I digress. If your death shows you were telling the truth, I'll rescind my analysis of players that is now based partially on them saving you very near the end of the Day.

Feel like humoring me Rugger? Let's take away the pledge to change the vote. Let's just say, hypothetically, that story comes in and mod kills Pleo and confirms him as town. Who are you voting for instead?

[Santo Rugger]

pygmyrugger said:

<snip>Death by Irony and Cookies happen to be on both of these lists, and along with zeriel and sinjin, these just so happen to be four of my most suspicious candidates, apart from Pleo.

One of these people.

[sinjin]

So here we are again with just over 24 hours till the end of the day with only 9 votes cast. So Santo are you going to be suspicious of the remaining 10 players who cast their vote for anybody but Pleo in the next 24 hours? Instead of castigating people why don't you reiterate why you believe Pleo is scum. I've been very clear about the reasons for my vote on zuma1 on Day one and Pleo on Days two and three. What I'm mainly hearing from you are threats if everyone doesn't vote your way. Not a very town-like attitude for the Gov. It's like you're stamping your tiny little foot because you didn't get to vote twice on Day one.

Aside from Pleo the two I'm most suspicious of are Santo and Roosh. Santo for the above and Roosh for his lies, half-truths and mischaracterizations of the things I've said. Oh and he's also big on the don't vote or change your vote in the last 24 hours thing as well. Having played only one mafia game here I have to ask: is this typical? It didn't seem to work that way in Firefly. We always seemed to go right to the last minute.

[NAF1138]

pygmyrugger said:

pygmyrugger said:

<snip>Death by Irony and Cookies happen to be on both of these lists, and along with zeriel and sinjin, these just so happen to be four of my most suspicious candidates, apart from Pleo.

One of these people.

But your suspicion of them hinges on Pleo being scum right?

Before I continue I should
vote sinjin

I don't have a great reason, sorry sinj. But I am getting low on suspects. Basically see what zeriel said about Roosh v. sin and add in some lingering suspicion about how she handled the suspicion against her.

Now having said that, if Pleo is scum one of those 4 is an understandable vote Santo. If not...who do we persue (in your mind)?

[Santo Rugger]

sinjin said:

So here we are again with just over 24 hours till the end of the day with only 9 votes cast. So Santo are you going to be suspicious of the remaining 10 players who cast their vote for anybody but Pleo in the next 24 hours? Instead of castigating people why don't you reiterate why you believe Pleo is scum. I've been very clear about the reasons for my vote on zuma1 on Day one and Pleo on Days two and three. What I'm mainly hearing from you are threats if everyone doesn't vote your way. Not a very town-like attitude for the Gov. It's like you're stamping your tiny little foot because you didn't get to vote twice on Day one.

Aside from Pleo the two I'm most suspicious of are Santo and Roosh. Santo for the above and Roosh for his lies, half-truths and mischaracterizations of the things I've said. Oh and he's also big on the don't vote or change your vote in the last 24 hours thing as well. Having played only one mafia game here I have to ask: is this typical? It didn't seem to work that way in Firefly. We always seemed to go right to the last minute.

I don't care who the people who haven't voted yet end up voting for, be it Pleo or otherwise. I'm just pissed they haven't voted yet.

I've already said numerous times why I think Pleo is scum. I don't like the way he's been saved in the last 24 hours, I don't like the people who did it (figuratively, of course), I don't like their timing, and I don't like their motivations, explanations, or reasoning for their last minute bandwagon votes.

You're right, in Firefly, votes tended to wait until crunch time. Remember who that benefited? I'm not threatening anybody in any way who doesn't vote they way I do. What I'm trying to do is make it known that I don't like people waiting until the last 24 hours to place their vote. Get it down on paper. Show some responsibility.

[Tragic]

pleonast said:

And we're headed for another Day with an ill-informed rush to vote at the end. Come on, people, post and vote! I have almost no free time this week, and yet I've put up some analysis and voted.

The slackers:
diggitcamara - 1 post, no vote
kassia - 1 post, no vote
Kat v. 2.0 (Yattara) - 1 post, no vote
Tragic (hazelnutcoffee) - 2 posts, no vote

There's more who've posted some, but haven't voted yet. Why? Delaying does not help the Colony.

I'm trying not to get offended at the moment but I posted on Page 4 my reasons why I hadn't voted yet. I'm not holding out to make an ill informed vote I'm taking the time to analyze so that I might make an informed vote. Please be more thorough if you're going to be calling me a slacker. I will be making my decision tomorrow (as in Wednesday) simply because I don't have the time to do a proper analysis at the moment.

Thanks for understanding

[Santo Rugger]

naf1138 said:

<snip>But your suspicion of them hinges on Pleo being scum right?<snip>

Hinges, no, but it's the nail in the coffin.


Haha, I forgot to mention "stamp your little foot". That's cute, put a smile on my big ol' face.

[Santo Rugger]

naf1138 said:

<snip>
Now having said that, if Pleo is scum one of those 4 is an understandable vote Santo. If not...who do we persue (in your mind)?

I'll burn that bridge when we cross it. I'm still suspicious of those four players regardless of Pleo's alignment.

Sorry for all the multiple posts, I think I had too much coffee this morning!!!

[NAF1138]

pygmyrugger said:

naf1138 said:

<snip>
Now having said that, if Pleo is scum one of those 4 is an understandable vote Santo. If not...who do we persue (in your mind)?

I'll burn that bridge when we cross it. I'm still suspicious of those four players regardless of Pleo's alignment.

Sorry for all the multiple posts, I think I had too much coffee this morning!!!

One more attempt.

Pygmy, dude, I am trying to get discussion about non Pleonast players happening in addition to all the Pleo talk. Wanna maybe detail why you are suspicious of them anyway?

[storyteller0910]

PAGE FIVE VOTE COUNT, TAKE TWO

Pleonast (4) - zuma v. 2.0, sinjin, Roosh, Santo Rugger
Death by Irony (2) - atarus, Captain Klutz
sinjin (2) - Zeriel, NAF1138
kassia (1) - Pleonast
Zeriel (1) - Parzival


Ten votes have been cast. The Day will end in approximately 24 and a half hours, at 5:00PM EST on Wednesday, December 5.

[Drain Bead]

Vote Pleonast

In the end, it was practically a coin toss, and I almost did exactly that. And my ultimate reasoning is totally assy, but in the interest of transparency (ha!) I'll say what it is. Basically, I'm sick of everyone talking about Pleonast every day. If he's scum (and as of midway through yesterDay I really started to think he was), that's great. If he's not, at least we're not fucking talking about him 75% of every day, and then coming up with a rushed and poorly reasoned lynch candidate later because everyone's been talking about Pleonast all day.

[storyteller0910]

Well, we're at the 24-hour mark now, and the vote count is only slightly changed from the last one, two posts above. I'm headed for home now, so good luck to y'all and I'll check in again in a few hours.

[Santo Rugger]

OMG, I'm turning into RoOsh! But, NAF, here ya go:

Cookies - Here's the big one, she said she was going to vote for me for Guv, had she not been voting randomly. Then, later, said that she didn't want me, specificaly, deciding ties because of the mishmash of reasons people had for electing me, going so far as to ask others why they voted for me. I never understood the vote for zuma, and she thinks the primary/root of votes that killed zuma weren't the third vote thing. Says specifically in post 46, "My vote history does not expose the manipulations of scum". Why say that???

Death by Irony - Funky Confirm Pleo via Cop Idea, reason for zuma vote was that she had a headache, voting twice in final hours for somebody who hadn't had a chance to claim, FoS for speculating on deaths, and does the same in post 15, IIRC.

sinjin - Last minute vote for zuma is what pinged me, never understood the reasons for that one, nor did I understand the "one-off" explaination. Furthermore, I don't like how, after she (she, right?) failed to cast the final Pleo vote on Day 1, has been on him with her vote like a pit bull on a poodle.

Zeriel - Infamous slip, didn't like the timing of Day 2 vote (as in, didn't vote), doesn't want me voting, picking today's vote based on a "coin flip", limiting accountability.

[Santo Rugger]

I'm not at all surprised that Cookies and Death by Irony haven't placed their votes yet.

[CatInASuit]

Alright, I have been reading over and over through the posts again.

For starters
vote Pleonast

Your method of determining which people to analyse and how your analyse their posts is what gets me.

On the second Day where you do not remove all the people who have voted for you which contradicts your own assumption, and yes to yourself you are a confirmed Colonist, aren't you!

If you actually check the end of day voting, then there is no logical way, that at the end of day, the scum are only voting for scum.

zuma (6) - Cookies, Kat, Yattara, zeriel, Death by Irony, sinjin
Pleonast (5) - kassia, Santo Rugger, diggitcamara, Roosh, Diomedes
CatinaSuit (4) - NAF1138, drainbead, hockey monkey, episodeofblonde
zeriel (3) - CatinaSuit, Captain Klutz, mhaye
Kat (2) - Pleonast, Parzival
NAF1138 (1) - Hal Briston
mhaye (1) - atarus
kassia (1) - zuma

For your assumption to be true, and knowing you are a colonist, at that time, you should have been looking only at Captain Klutz , mHaye , atarus, Hal Briston (aka CIAS v2), who would have qualified under your ideas as scum.

Given that we now know MHaye to be town and I know I am town that leaves two people left to be the only scum in the game.

I think your assumption is not only faulty, but designed to cast suspicion on people.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Some thoughts...

I agree with whoever has already said that this game's Days are going by faster for me than previous games. I also think that "late" voters are getting the shit end of the stick in a few people's individual courts of public opinion. I'm taking my time to develop my case and make as informed a decision as possible, which is just the way I roll.

Maybe it puts me on another short list that is also rich in scum, who knows. All I can do, again, is point out that this particular net has caught at least one thing that it was not supposed to be catching.

With so much of the conversation involving Pleo, his death holds the potential of providing the first real break in new information, regardless of where I fall out in my analysis of him, and regardless of what his true colors are shown to be. There is a situational line in the sand when "killing for information" can be a justifiable strategy, imho. Do I think we've crossed it? I think we're getting pretty close, which will very much taint the WIFOM if he is lynched and turns up town. Hopefully any new information is worth that risk, should that come to pass.

That being said, I'm going to continue to stew on my curiosity as to our three unique entities: Pleo, NAF, and Santo.

The speculation double standard as to last Night's lone kill and NAF's claim of kill-resistant replicants is enough for me to put my vote on Death by Irony.

pygmyrugger said:

Cookies - Here's the big one, she said she was going to vote for me for Guv, had she not been voting randomly. Then, later, said that she didn't want me, specificaly, deciding ties because of the mishmash of reasons people had for electing me, going so far as to ask others why they voted for me. I never understood the vote for zuma, and she thinks the primary/root of votes that killed zuma weren't the third vote thing. Says specifically in post 46, "My vote history does not expose the manipulations of scum". Why say that???

If I had not decided to use random, I probably would have voted for you. I used a random method and said I was using a random method, because by my calculations how/why I voted would have very little impact as to why any candidate were elected, even if the person I voted for had won. So instead of dragging my ill-informed hunch into the decision, I opted for random and hoped that others would as well. When the first almost-tie became evident to me, it solidified all of the unresolved issues with the Gov role for me. I still do not know _why_ you are in the role, and I still don't know what your alignment is. That would probably be true of any Gov, but we don't have "any Gov", we have you as Gov. I don't trust you, and I will remind everyone of that as often as I need to if there is anything that can be done via consensus to protect the Colony from unnecessarily giving you too much power.

I don't know why other people voted for zuma1. I know why they said they voted for him, and I know why I voted for him. His advocacy of the third vote approach was a facet of the collective case advanced gainst him, but I do not agree that it was driving force that sealed his doom.

Why did I say that my vote history doesn't expose scum? Because it doesn't. As I said in the second part of my sentence, it exposes that I chose poorly.

[Santo Rugger]

cometothedarkside said:

<snip>
Why did I say that my vote history doesn't expose scum? Because it doesn't. As I said in the second part of my sentence, it exposes that I chose poorly.

As I said earlier, I refuse to talk about my role as Guv with you anymore.

I think I should have made this part more clear. My vote history doesn't expose scum, because I'm not scum. However, I haven't felt the need to explicitly state this. Why did you?

[zuma]

drainbead said:

Pleonast has had his head on the block for days now. At this point I think he's serving to distract us from what's really going on. I had the horrible idea toDay that he was some sort of role that has a power activated by being day-killed, that's how bad some of his logic has been in the last few days. It's like he's trying to get killed. Does anyone else feel that way, or am I just WIFOMing too much?

You know, I've had the same thought kicking around my head. His logic truly is that bad. I think it's more likely his "I'll be investigating x y and z because they voted for me, someone who is not confirmed" was a really bad slip that he's now forced to defend. His amended role-claim after NAF claimed scum are resistant to night-kills is bothering me more and more, too. In any event, my vote on him is because I still find him the scummiest of the candidates at this time.

[storyteller0910]

PAGE FIVE VOTE COUNT, TAKE THREE

Pleonast (6) - zuma v. 2.0, sinjin, Roosh, Santo Rugger, drainbead, CatinaSuit v. 2.0
Death by Irony (3) - atarus, Captain Klutz, CometotheDarksideWeHaveCookies
sinjin (2) - Zeriel, NAF1138
kassia (1) - Pleonast
Zeriel (1) - Parzival

13 votes have been cast. The Day will end in approximately 21 hours, at 5:00PM EST on Wednesday, December 5 (unless someone reaches 11 votes before this time, of course).