Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 15:52:55 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 6, 2008 15:52:55 GMT -5
Stardragonman, I'm sorry to hear about the collapse. Glad you're OK now. Kick back, drink something cool. My gut feeling about TDPatriots. I've just reread TDPats' posts (in isolation, true) and didn't get enough of a hook to make me think he was scum. If the choice for lynching remains between TDP and SDM, I'm leaning more in favour of TDP for two reasons. - As TDP has observed, I believe, lynching him yields more information than lynching SDM does.
- SDM's explosion feels a little like new-townie frustration combined with aftershocks of his health scare, and that makes me think SDM is more likely to be town than TDP..
So right now I find myself leaning towards a vote for TDP even though I have no serious grounds for suspecting him (beyond the feeling that when he unvoted misterblockey, he wasn't really thinking about the unvote, but had something else on his mind and forgot who he'd voted for.) That makes me feel ... dirty. Yeah, dealing with demons will do that. Vote TDPatriots. What was the song? “Mud, mud, glorious mud ...” Sorry TDP – this vote is to ensure that tiebreaks continue to favour your lynch for now.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 15:55:19 GMT -5
Post by Hawkmod on Jun 6, 2008 15:55:19 GMT -5
Hawk is one of them (I find it interesting that he never responded to my vote on him at all. But he did add me to his list of people he would not vote for after I voted for him) Was there something that required a response? You shouldn't vote for me. I'm town. Bad NAF! Better? If I recall you didn't like my strategy, my list, and my lack of explanation for putting people on said list. I've explained my strategy (I can do it 6 more times if you like . I can't do anything about you not liking the list. I've tried to give a detail reason for everyone I've added to it. Is there something else you want?
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 15:56:43 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 6, 2008 15:56:43 GMT -5
Well, I'm going home. I probably won't be online again until after dusk. Everyone behave while I'm gone!
--FCOD
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 15:56:59 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 6, 2008 15:56:59 GMT -5
I have no serious grounds for suspecting him (beyond the feeling that when he unvoted misterblockey, he wasn't really thinking about the unvote, but had something else on his mind and forgot who he'd voted for.) You mean like my impending demise? Heh, and I just got finished talking about not taking stuff personally.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 15:57:39 GMT -5
Post by Hawkmod on Jun 6, 2008 15:57:39 GMT -5
I'm '01. Young'uns! --FCOD Christ, I have never felt so old! Graduated in '00. (Didn't finish college till '05 though. I took a year off between freshman and softmore year. So I can pretend I am as young as you.) Woohoo class of 2000. We are special (they wouldn't lie to us right?)
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:00:24 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 6, 2008 16:00:24 GMT -5
I'm '01. Young'uns! --FCOD Christ, I have never felt so old! Graduated in '00. (Didn't finish college till '05 though. I took a year off between freshman and softmore year. So I can pretend I am as young as you.) If "high school" is what I think it is in America, I would have left it in '98. I'd graduated University by 2001. Jeez, I should start selling diapers for all of you guys. ANYWAY... plainly I don't have much to say right now. I haven't had anything like enough time to make a good analysis of who's who, and I've got two days of posts to wade through and make notes on. All this will take TIME, and right now that's in short supply today. For the sole reason of not picking up a voting penalty - Atarus hasn't specifically said I wouldn't get one, although I certainly won't get one for not making five posts today - I'm going to voteMolefan1981. Please don't take this as an invitation to bandwagon!
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:02:39 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jun 6, 2008 16:02:39 GMT -5
New page vote count! 3 hours left in the Day. Vote CountTDpatriots (7): FlyingCowofDoom, Nanook, hawkeyeop, storyteller, misterblockey, hockeymonkey, mhaye Stardragonman (6): Penalty Votes, Roosh FlyingCowofDoom (2): Rebel, Darth Sensitive hockeymonkey (2): bufftabby, Kison Ryjae (1): Survivor Smurf hawkeyeop (1): NAF1138 Nanook (1): Rysto Molefan1981 (1): Molefan1981 Not Voting: 5 Unable to Vote: 1 (stardragonman) Oh, and for the record your friendly neighborhood mod graduated high school in '03 as wel.. Psst. Molefan, subs are exempt from the posting requirement if they come in Mid-Day. You're cool.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:03:03 GMT -5
Post by Hawkmod on Jun 6, 2008 16:03:03 GMT -5
Not that it matters, but you can vote for "no lynch" if you wish Molefan.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:03:05 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 6, 2008 16:03:05 GMT -5
A Magic Bag? Form Storyteller? Truly another sign of the impending apocalypse! ... oh wait ... I'm catching up on the 2 pages that have appeared since I ran an errand, but have to stop to say... ^^^^^^^^my thoughts exactly! (back to reading)
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:03:54 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 6, 2008 16:03:54 GMT -5
NAF, you are aware that there are no ties in this game, right? tdpatriots is currently the lynch target. --FCOD Yeah I am. Here is my dilema (and this may answer your question too TD, but if not let me know). People are voting for TDpats because they think he is scumier than SDM not because they think he is scummiest. I am looking at TD's posts, and think that if he was scum he doesn't seem like it to me. His behavior doesn't match the though process of scum. The best I can say is that "If I were scum (and I have been, several times) I would NEVER do what he has done." I just wouldn't. I would never be the last on a bandwagon. I would never vote without a damn good reason. I just wouldn't. I want to scream about Cecilvania right now but that would be really bad form. I am hoping that TD knows what I am talking about at least (he is watching that game with perfect knowledge). But that has something to do with it also TD. On the other hand, my one off isn't doing anything and the only thing I recall in SDM's favor are that he hasn't actively done anything to make me suspicious. He may actually be a better lynch candidate than TD who, as I am tryping this post and thinking about things, seems less and less like a good candidate to me. I didn't get very far in my re read of SDM because I keep checking back here for updates on what is going on and then writing this. What I am trying to decide is do I want to vote for SDM (who I am currently unsure of, but who I had been leaning towards thinking was town) or leave my vote on hawk. I don't know. But typing out these kinds of posts helps me to clarify my thoughts a lot. (You can see, my feelings on TD and SDM's relative townieness is shifting even over the course of this post.)
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:06:38 GMT -5
Post by stardragonman on Jun 6, 2008 16:06:38 GMT -5
I think it does suck that TDPats and I were put into this situation, because I agree with a lot of other people that he isn't necessarily the scummiest person here.
If I had a vote, it would definitely be for Roosh, but I suppose that just can't happen now.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:09:52 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 6, 2008 16:09:52 GMT -5
I think I get the message. Since some of it is based on Cecilvania, and I wouldn't want people talking about a game I was in while it was still going... I won't expand on any of it.
I still don't think SDM is scum, but given his relatively low activity level (even the parts of it that are justified) it could simply be that I haven't gotten enough facts to put together for my scumdar to work properly.
Make no mistake, we both took very, very different paths to this point.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 16:50:02 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 6, 2008 16:50:02 GMT -5
Hey, sorry, I'm still in the process of catching up, but will still it all in before the end of the Day. AFAICT, the current choice is TDPats. Granted, I'm not caught up, but I REALLY don't like the logic behind any of the votes I've seen.
Also, since I never felt like my vote for FCoD Yesterday was really heard, and I haven't seen anything to change my mind in what I've ready since...
Vote FlyingCowOfDoom
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:12:50 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 6, 2008 17:12:50 GMT -5
Vote for me if you want, but don't bring up arguments against me that I myself discussed at great length yesterDay. You really have nothing on me. I'd also like to point out that if I was scum, I'd know that Hal wasn't, and my whole argument would have been contrived. I'd also know that if Hal's alignment were to be discovered, I would look extremely bad. Does that really sound like scum behavior? Not only that, but I was probably the pivotal vote to change the lynch target from buff to the frickin' DEMON LORD. Can you explain that? You know, the more I read your posts, the more I'm reminded of my tone from the Batman game. You're talking in logical circles here and appearing to make points when you really aren't. Of COURSE if you were scum and voted for Hal the case would have been contrived; that part of the whole point. And then the rest of this is a whole "is that how scum would act?" You even misrepresent, accidentally or not, the importance of your vote on the Demon Lord. And while that's a point, I also agreed that the Demon Lord lynch, while ultimately successful, was more pure dumb luck than it was a legitimate case. I think a lot of the early "me toos" were probably townies who bought it. You are correct...my vote wasn't that important. I didn't remember the vote counts at the time correctly. Also, I explicitly disclosed when I voted that it was a me too vote. Regardless, your case against me is based upon my thoughts towards Hal. I still maintain that my actions and thoughts towards Hal were not anti-town. I also maintain that the possession mechanic as we understand it is stupid, since it allows a person that is possessed to all but say, "Hey guys, I'm possessed." Seems more like a "share" than a "possession". How do you maintain that your actions against Hal were not anti-town? Yes, you claimed that you thought he was scummiest, but given the circumstances, even if he had done scummy things he likely (and, post-humously, obviously) had good reasons for it. There was pretty darn close to zero motivaiton for scum to be behaving the way he was AND it was also apparent that he was not going to get lynched. This said, I think there WAS scummy motivation for a vote there. Besides the easy one-off vote, given what we know now, I imagine that the scum probably had no idea exactly what the mechanics of the possessions were either, and getting Hal killed would have given them some valuable information.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:14:14 GMT -5
Post by Rebel on Jun 6, 2008 17:14:14 GMT -5
I am certainly not the only one to point out common scum tactics, nor am I the only one to use them as a basis for suspicions. Twice is not "a few times", and I wasn't even defending a vote with the first quote (I think that second quote was directed at bufftabby). I fully understand that my switching to hockeyguy later on is suspicious, as it's part of the basis of my vote against tdpats, but please don't base your vote on the fact that I like to discuss widely accepted scum tactics in my posts. Just so it's clear my vote for you wasn't based on my question at the end at all. If you notice I stated my reason for my vote, then I voted and then I asked the question. Also, I’m leaving my vote on FCoD. However, I just want to get it on the record that if stardragonman was going to by lynched instead I would have changed my vote to tdpats because I honestly think at the moment that SDM is a citizen. If someone else votes for SDM and I'm on, I'll switch my vote.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:23:42 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 6, 2008 17:23:42 GMT -5
can I get a quick show of hands of all those people who are voting for TD "strategically"?
Then as a follow up, who would you be voting for if TD wasn't the stratigic choice?
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:26:30 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 6, 2008 17:26:30 GMT -5
Well I'm not voting for me, but my non-vote could be considered strategic. If SDM wasn't on penalty I'd probly have a self-defense vote on him. But I think the penalty makes this a special case where a self-defense vote would be particularly anti-town (given the reasons stated in the post where I "unvoted" for misterblockey), as opposed to just something everyone does.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:26:47 GMT -5
Post by Hawkmod on Jun 6, 2008 17:26:47 GMT -5
can I get a quick show of hands of all those people who are voting for TD "strategically"? Then as a follow up, who would you be voting for if TD wasn't the stratigic choice? Raises hand. He is at least among my top candidates. My 2nd choice would probably be Roosh.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:31:25 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 6, 2008 17:31:25 GMT -5
can I get a quick show of hands of all those people who are voting for TD "strategically"? Then as a follow up, who would you be voting for if TD wasn't the stratigic choice? Raises hand. He is at least among my top candidates. My 2nd choice would probably be Roosh. That isn't what I meant. If he is your top choice, then it is a vote for the scummiest not a vote of strategy. I am under the impression (and I could be wrong) that more than one person is voting for TD even though he isn't their top choice. I just want to know who all that is.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:31:54 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 6, 2008 17:31:54 GMT -5
can I get a quick show of hands of all those people who are voting for TD "strategically"? Then as a follow up, who would you be voting for if TD wasn't the stratigic choice? *Raises hand.* I have one small scummy "ping" from TDP, and SDM's frustration feels like newbie town spiced by health problem. So my vote is explicitly to break ties in favour of SDM should one more person vote for him. Roosh, or possibly Ryjae. My current project for Today is to review FCOD though - when I sat down to think there were three people in the lynch game. Two people dropped off FCoD around that time, which sort of removed him from contention.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:45:12 GMT -5
Post by Hawkmod on Jun 6, 2008 17:45:12 GMT -5
Raises hand. He is at least among my top candidates. My 2nd choice would probably be Roosh. That isn't what I meant. If he is your top choice, then it is a vote for the scummiest not a vote of strategy. I am under the impression (and I could be wrong) that more than one person is voting for TD even though he isn't their top choice. I just want to know who all that is. Sorry, I read the opposite of what you wrote. To clarify, I find TDpats suspicious, but not necessarily more suspicious then some others.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:55:30 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 6, 2008 17:55:30 GMT -5
Wow I have no time: I have to leave for work in a few minutes, and won't be back till after the day ends. Keeping that in mind please excuse my brevity, I'll be happy to more fully explain ToMorrow. Unvote FCOD Vote TDPatriotsTo make a long story short: Still suspicious of FCOD I don't think Stardragonman is the best lynch choice I don't thing TDPats is the best lynch choice either, but he's better than Stardgmn Particular point, late hockeyguy vote, similar to why I'm suspicious of FCOD, but less so. TD seems like the only one to vote for to get the vote of Stardgmn, and Stardgmn, while needing a wakeup call, is putting off more of a townie vibe than TD. No more time, g2g, sorry. Wow, I just have to point out this this vote REALLY bothers me. TDPats is really the only alternative to SDM? FCoD is only one vote behind him. I maybe wouldn't mind so much IF you provided some reasoning, but there's zilch here.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:57:31 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 6, 2008 17:57:31 GMT -5
No penalty? Well, then, unvote Molefan. Looks like my Robert Mugabe-style self-voting has ended prematurely. NVM, I'm dealing!
I'm still reading through the first day and taking notes right now. I won't comment until I've got through a helluva lot more except to say: JEEZ you guys like being cryptic, don't you? You don't make it easy for a person!
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 17:59:31 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 6, 2008 17:59:31 GMT -5
PS - my Karma's just gone down a point, literally in the last few hours, yet the only thing I've done is voted myself. What the F-CK?!
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 18:02:02 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 6, 2008 18:02:02 GMT -5
I won't comment until I've got through a helluva lot more except to say: JEEZ you guys like being cryptic, don't you? You don't make it easy for a person! Pain in the ass isn't it? Oh, and your karma just dropped again. WELCOME TO THE GAME!
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 18:05:09 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 6, 2008 18:05:09 GMT -5
Next up is my opinion on RoOsh. His explanation strikes me as consistent, but in a way that would pretty much justify any play from RoOsh, which is of course is damn convenient. Now what to do with my vote. I don't like hockeymonkey's vote on me, but not enough to return the favor. I don't have a read one way or the other on any of the other votes on me. As far as scummiest player out there, I got nothing. So what to do? There's the self defense vote, that I could place on SDM, but I'm worried that he's town. If he's town and gets lynched, what the hell does the town learn? Nothing. I mean, it's possible he's scum, and that would be great, but I don't think he is. If I get lynched, at least it means a huge chunk of Day Two conversation is open for analysis. Just so we're clear, I won't be voting unless someone does something particularly scummy over the course of the day. Feel free to ask me anything, I'll be around. See, this is the first thing I've seen from you that looks fishy. Why NOT vote for SDM? You're leaning that he's town, but you should be 100% sure that you are town. The fact that you smudge Hockey Monkey as well doesn't sit well with me either. I don't agree that a lynch of SDM is necessarily without information either. Just because he doesn't have votes on him doesn't mean we can't look at it and garner some information. If he is in fact town, it's a scary proposition for only one or two votes to make that kind of difference, which is exactly why it makes it look like he's town, and that we could potentially get information by looking at if there was possibly information in how people were avoiding the point all together. Either way, as it stands, even though this is fishy, it's more fishy because it's bad strategy, and not because it's scummy. It's just as anti-scum asit is anti-town.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 18:07:43 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 6, 2008 18:07:43 GMT -5
I won't comment until I've got through a helluva lot more except to say: JEEZ you guys like being cryptic, don't you? You don't make it easy for a person! Pain in the ass isn't it? Oh, and your karma just dropped again. WELCOME TO THE GAME! Haha, glad to be here.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 18:11:41 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 6, 2008 18:11:41 GMT -5
TD seems like the only one to vote for to get the vote of Stardgmn, and Stardgmn, while needing a wakeup call, is putting off more of a townie vibe than TD. What??? SDM has done nothing really except point out that his Day 1 vote was an OMGUS, and that he basically thinks people who analyze votes are the scummy ones! That's it! How is that "more townie" than Td at least trying to defend himself and explain his actions? Lurking is more townie than posting? That's bullshit to me! I don't feel that SDM is the best lynch for today. Blocky is right, his townie vibe is strong. Between Pats and Ryjae, I'm more suspicious of Ryjae, but I don't think his lynch is the best one today either. Although his claims seem a little outlandish, if he's town he's too important to lose. So that leaves Pats as the only other person in contention. Is that a good reason? Not really, but it's better at this point than a one off. A one off vote is useless, so... vote TDPatriotsI also dislike this vote a LOT, however, I do agree with one part- a one off vote is useless. So I'm gonna put my money where my mouth's been all day: Unvote Rysto Vote StarDragonMan. As I think he's the LEAST helpful player out here, and I'm still not comfortable with the TD Lynch. I'd rather see SDM hang than an active defensive player, who's tried to put some valid ideas and thoughts out there, while SDM's done jack and shit, and will continue to do such as long as we leave him alone. I really can't stand for that. His vote vs. Hockey Guy was also the WEAKEST vote- it had NO reasoning, and it was posted early enough that HG was in no danger of being lynched. It's just that SDM didn't really check in all that much or bother to do any other analysis- he just popped in later to say "Hey, I agree with the others [ kat] analysis, and so i'll leave my vote there", but then toDay has pointed out that his vote actually was nothing more than an OMGUS. That to me is NOT Helpful or Townie in ANY way shape or form. I also have a few metagame reasons for voting him, but I'll keep those out of this thread as well. But his play REALLY frustrates me, and I KNOW he's not going to improve on it. Wow, I stand corrected. This is a VERY convenient vote. You're going to talk about him being unhelpful and throw a vote on him. You're also goign to claim metagame reasons and not tell us what they are? Scum or not, this is an extraordinarily anti-town move because you're essentially deciding by yourself who the lynch candidate should be on the advantage of the 5 vote penalty. I don't agree with most of the logic behind the TDPats vote but... wow.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 18:19:44 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 6, 2008 18:19:44 GMT -5
Pretty much all fair points, I guess my answer is more to your second part. I have no specific response to this, just that it's something I'll have to think about.
It was probably an overstatement for me to say that nothing would be gained, informationally, from a SDM lynch in the event he turns up town. But I think a strong argument can be made that you guys will have more to work with (what you do with it, I suppose, is another story) simply based on the fact that I've been posting and responding to people pretty damn frequently today. Votes don't really even enter into it, not what I was trying to point out regarding an informational disparity, anyway.
The reason why the penalty comes in to play, at least from where I'm thinking, is it's five empty votes. It's not as if five players have deemed SDM scummy and I'm throwing my self-defense vote in with them and their collective reasoning. It just seems to me that given all that, a self-defense vote would be supremely selfish.
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Day Two
Jun 6, 2008 18:25:26 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 6, 2008 18:25:26 GMT -5
To further clarify, maybe it was just because that was Plan A, for me. At the end of Day One I knew I'd be catching flack for my hockeyguy vote - which was pretty obvious given the two immediate votes that followed mine. I intended that if I was going to be lynched for said comments, I was going to do my best to post up a storm, so that in the event I died, my history would be all over the place.
This might also explain the distraction that caused my misterblockey / survivor smurf fuckup. Last night I went to bed actually fairly confident that I wouldn't be lynched, this was based on the assumption that I thought I had explained my actions to the best of my ability and, well, I wasn't already in a big lead. I was starting to juggle Plan Bs and Cs in my head. Came back, saw the situation, and immediately reverted to Plan A.
If that was a stupid, poorly thought out strategy, well, then I won't do it again. But that's what was and is on my mind.
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