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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:07:06 GMT -5
Add apostrophes and letters to taste.
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:15:05 GMT -5
I'm willing to change that if I hear any moving or compelling arguments.
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:22:30 GMT -5
[Sound of crickets chirping. . .]
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 24, 2007 13:32:54 GMT -5
I'm willing to change that if I hear any moving or compelling arguments. Unfortunately, I have none. I am not at all convinced by the arguments against either player. On the one hand, I agree with capy - the makeup of dotchan's wagon makes me feel unsettled, as does the essentially flimsy nature of the case against her. On the other hand, the pygmy thing seems manufactured, too. It is distressingly possible that we have cornered a pair of townies. Given that, how to vote intelligently? I have been toying all day with advocating a no-lynch. Frankly, I think that might even be our best bet. But doing so would require tacitly accepting both dot and pygmy as town. I'm not sure I'm really ready to go that far in the other direction. But here's the thing. I don't think I'm going to tell the scum anything they don't know when I say: dotchan is obviously not the Doctor. She has been in mortal peril forever and if she's the Doctor and hasn't claimed she's out of her mind. If pygmy is town, he is no less likely to be the Doctor than any other unknown non-scum player. Given the lack of evidence against him, and just in case pygmy is an unclaimed Doctor, I'd rather not push him to the point where a claim becomes necessary. (This, by the way, is the thing to which I was alluding when I said that I felt it was a mistake to force this runoff). But you know what? Vote for who you think is most likely to be scum. Given the available candidates, that means: vote pygmy ruggerIf a tie seems a possible outcome, I will remove this vote.
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 24, 2007 13:36:19 GMT -5
Should I vote? I want to vote Pygmy, but I don't want it to be close enough to tie it up by a simple jumping vote. Or do I?
Any thoughts?
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 24, 2007 13:37:32 GMT -5
Well, there are 9 of us, so if we all vote there's no chance of a tie.
Who hasn't voted yet...?
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 24, 2007 13:38:30 GMT -5
me
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:39:16 GMT -5
Should I vote? I want to vote Pygmy, but I don't want it to be close enough to tie it up by a simple jumping vote. Or do I? Any thoughts? Yes. You have my sympathy. If it makes you feel any better I doubt anyone on the Dotchan wagon's going to move. Now, Roosh and Story-- do you think I've done the right thing? Am I crazy? I think I'm suspicious of anyone who isn't uneasy right now.
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 24, 2007 13:41:55 GMT -5
Story, I would have thought the Claim woulda been necessary around the time of the Tie. Not DURING the tie itself. But...
Vote Dotchan. Just so we can move on with the "Ooh Shiny" and if she turns up town. Mad you're going to get a HUGE target on yourself.
Because everyday that Dotchan lives, I'll still wonder if she's the last scum. So lets just this over with. I'm sorry, Dotchan I still support a Pygmylynch, but I think we need to do this for the town's sake.
Though i think if we're still alive tommorrow, the Doctor needs to roleclaim. And before the scum does it. So we're not doing a 50-50 tomm. Though it'd be better odds than nothing i guess. But still.
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:42:38 GMT -5
I have been toying all day with advocating a no-lynch. Frankly, I think that might even be our best bet. But doing so would require tacitly accepting both dot and pygmy as town. I'm not sure I'm really ready to go that far in the other direction. I toyed with it as well and came to the conclusion that at the end of Tomorrow we'd be exactly here in the same place, minus one nightkilled townie.
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 24, 2007 13:44:17 GMT -5
The irony. That after 3 days of calling for her head, I'd finally feel bad for voting for Dotchan. =(
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:47:03 GMT -5
And after days of defending her I'd be the one to lay down the hammer. Alas.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 24, 2007 13:49:43 GMT -5
Ah, yes, killed by irony.
How ironic.
;D
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 24, 2007 13:53:06 GMT -5
dotchan (6) - Mad the Swine, diggitcamara, pygmyrugger, Blaster Master, capybara, Roosh pygmyrugger (3) - dotchan, nesta, storyteller
One hour remains.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 24, 2007 13:53:49 GMT -5
I have been toying all day with advocating a no-lynch. Frankly, I think that might even be our best bet. But doing so would require tacitly accepting both dot and pygmy as town. I'm not sure I'm really ready to go that far in the other direction. I toyed with it as well and came to the conclusion that at the end of Tomorrow we'd be exactly here in the same place, minus one nightkilled townie. Yeah, I guess. I'm frustrated, though, because we probably only have one - count 'em, one - free lynch to play with. If we're wrong here, it's likely lynch-or-lose tomorrow (and every Day thereafter), and those odds blow. And we're wasting that one free lynch on the player who has been placed on a silver dish with a sign that says "Lynch Me" by practically everyone in the town, including a few of the players I trust the least. <insert curse word here>
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:54:45 GMT -5
What'll ya drink, Dot? I'll make it a double, on the house.
Unless you're scum, and then we'll just clean out your wallet after you die.
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 13:57:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess. I'm frustrated, though, because we probably only have one - count 'em, one - free lynch to play with. If we're wrong here, it's likely lynch-or-lose tomorrow (and every Day thereafter), and those odds blow. And we're wasting that one free lynch on the player who has been placed on a silver dish with a sign that says "Lynch Me" by practically everyone in the town, including a few of the players I trust the least. <insert curse word here> I KNOW. But we don't have much of a choice. I'd have liked to see someone other than Pyg on the gallows with her. If she's town I'm going to SMITE every other person on this bandwagon so hard (except Roosh who is at least uneasy, which I like). Ya'll gonna get a smitin'! You hear me?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 24, 2007 13:57:44 GMT -5
You know, for better or for worse, it seems like it's the same group in here each Day just before the deadline. I don't think that means anything, but it's funny to me to see exactly the same faces as were in here for the Royal Clusterfuck that was yesterday's deadline.
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 24, 2007 13:59:00 GMT -5
First of all, I'm just going to link to the post because I'm going to be jumping around and I don't think quoting it in bits will make sense. So, linky First of all, I'm not understanding the basis of point 1. How is me lacking general suspicion incriminating? From what I can tell, you're generally lacking suspicion, so is Roosh. This seems to me to be a convenient way for you to subtly smudge two of the least suspected townies while, simultaneously, boosting your own town cred because you pointed it out. As far as smudging, I don't keep any kind of active smudge list, because I doubt that raw numbers are of much use (as I explained with the topic came up in M4); that is, IMO a smudge IS useful, but only and entirely in context. So, you say the scum haven't smudged me? We've caught exactly two scum, one of which was killed on the first Day (and didn't really have time to smudge a bunch of people), and the other just yesterday. So essentially, you're basing your judgment of who the scum are smudging on the actions of the single combined scum of MAF? And on top of that, you're contradicting yourself because your point 4 specifically points out a case where MAF did. You can't have your cake and eat it too. UNLESS, you specifically know who the other remaining scum are, and know who they are and are not, and thus know who they are and are not smudging? IOW, this is the type of statement that reeks of PKS. Point 2: A fair point on the surface; however, it fails in two aspects. First, is a meta-game reason in that I'm only able to post about 3-4 days out of the week, and much of that time is spent modding MV (since it is my higher priority at this time, since it won't work if it isn't). I have missed a couple of votes, but never deliberately. As I mentioned several Days ago (Day 2 IIRC), playing this game is a real stretch on my resources and if it looks like my ability to post as much as I'd like is affecting the game negatively because I'm REALLY trying to participate as much as possible, and my style is being interpretted as "in the shadows". FTR, I don't want to do a disservice to the players if this is the case, and I'm willing to sub out to someone who can likely repond more timely. The second aspect seems logical on the surface, but isn't. Why exactly is it suspicious for me to be suspicious of people other people are suspicious of? Case in point, I observed the slip by Dotchan Yesterday and the resulting suspicion. I didn't just come in and go "Oh, me too!" It piqued my suspicion, and so I went back and did research and corroborated that case with one of my own. What looks far more suspicious to me are "Hey, that looks suspicious. I'll vote that way too!" without doing any of their own research. And even more, what's the alternative? ...do you really expect me to go after people who haven't done anything to pique my suspicion? What's your words... "Vote for who you feel is most scummy", right? That is, if there are living players of whom I'm suspicious, I don't see the point of going back and trying to make a case against someone who hasn't. I will, OTOH, take a look back when I'm not particularly suspicious of anyone; however, that is not the case here. Point 3: This one vexes me as well. I specifically stated I was voting for drainbead, and my other option was to basically take a stab at one of the dnooman voters. Then you comment that I didn't post the rest of the Day. FTR, again meta-gaming a bit, the post you reference is at 3:20 PM on FRIDAY July 27th. I generally leave work around 4:00 or 4:30 on Friday and, as I generally don't get to read or post on weekends (and I specifically remember being upset I couldn't in this case, because it was exciting), hence why I missed the rest of the Day. Hell, I had to argue with my fianceé just to spend an hour doing the bare minimum to update the MV game that weekend. As I've said in this game, and others (M3 and M4 at least, one in which I was scum and the other townie), I consider non-participation poor form. Please interpret my silence as an inability to read and/or post; not as a deliberate action. Point 4: You may consider my logic "fatally flawed", but I think it holds up. Besides, as I learned back in M2 and have reitterated often is that a difference on strategy is not necessary a reason for suspicion. Further, most of your disagreements with my points on strategy were based on misunderstandings at best, and misrepresentations at worst, of my intentions. Convenient how you point this out, but fail to link to it. Maybe you're hoping people won't go check and see. I implore people to look at the conversation and judge for themselves, particularly the third link of you replying to me. You Me You Me The conversation dropped after that (I suppose because I said I didn't want to derail the discussion at hand), but if you REALLY think my logic was THAT bad, why don't you pick it up now? An aside, since I just noticed it: You responding to MadTheSwine. I've been befuddled by the way you two have interacted during this game, and I think it's been a large part of my gut suspicion of MadTheSwine. The reason the post I linked caught my eye was because it implies an enormous amount of suspicion in MadTheSwine and a big smudge, but yet no FOS or vote. In fact, Storyteller hasn't been "actively" pushing the MadTheSwine wagon since his intial votes for him piqued my suspicion and I made my case. Since then, he's been making these sorts of comments to encourage suspicion, but not be actively making a case. Finally, point five: This is just plain disingenuous. You're saying this with hindsight. Of course I'm going to be vocal on that. MHaye's claim was VERY difficult to believe and it was essentially asking me to die on the off chance that this incredulous claim was true. I fail to see how this lends any weight to your argument that I'm a psycho. Do you expect me just lay down and accept my death as a townie? Hell no! If I were a psycho, would you expect me to just lay down and accept death? Hell no! IOW, I don't think a logical person can say anything one way or the other about my alignment based on that Day. In fact, you held the very same opinion I did at the time. Can you say, in my situation, you would have been any less impassioned in your defense. In fact, you were just about as responsible for how the town reacted to MHaye's claim as I was, and yet, I get the shame in this point, simply because it was my neck that was on the line and not yours. Congratulations, Storyteller, you have leaped frogged RIGHT over MadTheSwine to the top of my suspicious list from the Drainbead voters. Your twisting of the facts is FAR too egregious to not be deliberate.
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 24, 2007 13:59:41 GMT -5
At this point now, I'm just hoping she's scum.... and that her teammates just sold her out. So at least we'd be ahead of the game. though if she's scum, it'd lead back to the "ooh Shiny!" quote. Which would put Pygmy and Diggit on the nooses tomm. And leaving a smart Scum to just watch and walk away unscathed.
=(
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 24, 2007 14:00:27 GMT -5
What'll ya drink, Dot? I'll make it a double, on the house. Unless you're scum, and then we'll just clean out your wallet after you die. Gimme something hard. I need to be nice and drunk when I report to Limbo. And story, if it's a bad idea to ponder "out loud" about who the doctor is, why do it now...?
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Post by capybara on Aug 24, 2007 14:08:45 GMT -5
Gimme something hard. I need to be nice and drunk when I report to Limbo. Here you go, a two liter Long Island Iced Tea. With a crazy straw.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 24, 2007 14:10:29 GMT -5
Hehe, she said, "give me something hard."
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 24, 2007 14:11:11 GMT -5
Ooh, crazy straw. Fun!
*ssssssssssssiiiip*
o/ Always look on the bright side of *hic* o/
;D
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 24, 2007 14:12:23 GMT -5
Hehe, she said, "give me something hard." <Dope Slaps* pygmyrugger> *As explained by the Car Talk guys, a Dope Slap is an open palm slap to the back of the head, usually accompanied by a "what are you, stupid?"
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 24, 2007 14:18:08 GMT -5
Nice... Okay, first off... Storyteller deserves a round of applause. Excellent work in adjusting the facts to fit your theory, rather than adjusting your theory to fit the facts. I will respond to your points in a subsequent post. Bring it on. Be careful about accusing me of adjusting facts, though; my interpretation may be subject to debate, but the facts - ...that you have not received a single vote other than mine (and drainbead's silly one) all game long, and have been the subject of exceedingly minimal suspcion during the same period How does me receiving or not receiving votes and suspicion somehow indict me? This logic completely fails. Should I go out and TRY to garner a bunch of suspicion and votes? Maybe we should ignore the people we're suspicious of, and find ways to lynch people we're not suspicious of? You HAVE to explain this to me, because it seems SO anti-town I just want to laugh at how scummy it makes you look. Again... I fail to understand this logic. I research people that pique my suspicion. Sometimes a popular candidate does (and I'd like to think I would have caught the slip had I been around). This is just an unfortunate coincidence, as I think my difficulty to post on weekends should be well documented by this point. Why would I vote to put her in the lead, knowing full well that I couldn't vote again before the Day was over if I had all intentions of changing my vote? Firstly, I would expect anyone else would be impassioned in their own defense when facing the prospect of death for no fault of their own. I was not the only one who didn't believe the claim, and this REEKS of hindsight knowledge at best, and PKS at worst, in you shrugging responsibility of that entirely onto my shoulders. Convenient how you forgot to mention this time that no scum FOSed me, eh? Either way, as far as this... I dunno. I can't explain it. My guess is that, when I was scum in the past, one of my tactics was to throw suspicion every which way and pursue what sticks. I think that's part of the reason he didn't pursue it, and why you didn't pursue it either until today, when you realized Dotchan, whom I'm guessing is the next to last scum besides you, is going down, so you're reaching desperately for someone else to get lynched. Speaking of which, didn't someone mention Yesterday how Dotchan had FOSed pretty much everyone? Seems like a pretty consistent scum tell to me. I've actually linked to the conversation. I did not over look key points. I thought that, perhaps, you simply misunderstood my points, but it's looking more and more like you deliberately misrepresented my points to try and paint me in a bad light. Very nice work.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 24, 2007 14:20:17 GMT -5
How does me receiving or not receiving votes and suspicion somehow indict me? This logic completely fails. Should I go out and TRY to garner a bunch of suspicion and votes? Trust me,That doesn't work.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 24, 2007 14:22:23 GMT -5
How does me receiving or not receiving votes and suspicion somehow indict me? This logic completely fails. Should I go out and TRY to garner a bunch of suspicion and votes? Trust me,That doesn't work. Yeah! Look at what's about to happen to me!
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 24, 2007 14:24:02 GMT -5
Trust me,That doesn't work. Yeah! Look at what's about to happen to me! I don't think you were trying to do it.
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 24, 2007 14:31:04 GMT -5
Oh, and FTR, I'm leaving between 4:00 and 4:30 EDT today. I probably won't be able to reply until Monday morning. MAYBE a quick response late tonight or Sunday, but unlikely.
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