Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 18, 2009 16:11:57 GMT -5
Hoopy- are you still trying to claim credit for Zeriel's lynch? That's...odd. Was this just a plain smudge or did I miss the point??
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 17:29:54 GMT -5
Hoopy, I don't know that you are scum. I only know that I am not and you seem damned determined to see me mislynched immediately if not sooner. You won't even acknowledge the possibility that I'm a town Scotsman. You won't even acknowledge that lynching me twice might give the game to scum. Hubris, much?
YesterDay you discovered that KidV's role claim did not jibe with your mason pm. Does this not give you a little bit of pause? Why aren't you asking any questions about that? I see several possibilities. KidV and Cookies are scum buddies. Cookies is your scum buddy and when I turn up town you will take off after KidV. Or you are scum buddies with one of those you have cleared as town and both Cookies and I are town.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 18, 2009 17:43:32 GMT -5
Hoopy- are you still trying to claim credit for Zeriel's lynch? That's...odd. Was this just a plain smudge or did I miss the point?? It could indicate a blind spot with respect to his analysis of motivation if he thinks he single-handedly got Zeriel lynched.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 18:30:29 GMT -5
I would like to draw everyone's attention back to this post. We're possibly one mislynch away from lylo and you want to mislynch me again right off the bat? I asked you yesterday if you had ever played a game with an unlynchable scum and you didn't answer. I missed that you asked if I played a game with unlynchable scum. So yes I did. It was called Skrull Planet. The game that happened just before this one, actually. I played Mikhail Rasputin, a mason with a never activated bomb power. Idle played in that one too, as Dr. Cecilia Reyes, the town Doctor. There was a scum with the power to stop any one lynch. He used it on himself. The character was Storm, the Horseman of Famine and the scum role-blocker. The player was Darth sensitive. I believe that is also the role to which Kat refers, since she was co-mod in that game. And yes, what shenanigans are you calling here? You might not believe I'm Town, but everyone I've confirmed knows that they are Town. And as Kat mentioned, I found both of the players who were not part of the SMB universe and was able to get them both to claim as such before they were revealed as such. So either I'm the fuckingest lucky and brilliant mafia player ever to be able to pull something like that out of the ether and be right about it, or I really am an investigator. Huh, paranoid much? I never said you weren't an investigator. I didn't even accuse you of anything. Also please note that the role of the player that both you and Kat are referring to is: Neither strongman nor scotsman. And sure all the true town you've confirmed know they are town, but do you really expect that the non-town you've possibly confirmed are going to rise up and say, "Hey wait I'm not town and the Hoopster confirmed me!!!" Hoopy, in all honesty, I am starting to lean towards you being the most gloating scum player ever.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 18, 2009 18:45:49 GMT -5
Was this just a plain smudge or did I miss the point?? It could indicate a blind spot with respect to his analysis of motivation if he thinks he single-handedly got Zeriel lynched. Clearly you're missing the point. Sinjin is insinuating that I'm scum. Now since she hasn't thrown out anything but plain mechanical conjecture on that point, I'm showing her where her mechanical conjecture is unlikely. First if she wants to say I've faked my investigations, that's highly unlikely because I said there were two people I didn't get a read on. And while I didn't know why, it became obvious after both were revealed as not from this world. In other words, how would I be able to know that if I couldn't investigate who the ones who weren't from this world were as players in the first place if I wan't an investigator? That' the point I was making. Zeriel doesn't even figure into this, because I'm obviously referencing Ed and Chucara.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 18, 2009 18:56:32 GMT -5
Hoopy, I don't know that you are scum. I only know that I am not and you seem damned determined to see me mislynched immediately if not sooner. You won't even acknowledge the possibility that I'm a town Scotsman. You won't even acknowledge that lynching me twice might give the game to scum. Hubris, much? Nope. But I know I'm town. I also know that there are three people I haven't investigated left in this game. I also know that we have one mislynch to spare with 3 scum out there, and the numbers keep going up with less scum. So I'm going down the line from who I think is most apt to be scum to least apt to be scum. I could be wrong. KidV might be scum, and you two might be town. But as long no extra kill comes out, we still have scum + mislynch > unconfirmed. So how does lynching you twice give the game to scum anymore than lynching one of the others does? Why are you so damned important? How is that not hubris in its own way? You accuse me of hubris, but either I'm lying scum (which you still haven't made any real case for) and hubris won't apply here because I'm pulling a gambit to nail a townie, or I'm truthful townie, in which case I've got the numbers on my side. I think your more apt to be scum than the others. That's not hubris, that's just my view. Could I be wrong? Sure. I was wrong about Ed being scum, wasn't I?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 18, 2009 19:01:07 GMT -5
YesterDay you discovered that KidV's role claim did not jibe with your mason pm. Does this not give you a little bit of pause? Why aren't you asking any questions about that? KidV won't be around to answer questions for a while. Also, I never said his role-claim didn't jibe. I wasn't a Hammer brother. I was simply a mason. Idle said names didn't count yesterday. So being that I wasn't a Hammer Brother, there's no reason I would be required to hammer like they were. And yeah, the mason has his own win condition. Big deal. With only one mason left, there's really no way for him to pull it off. Two masons could have resulted in a mason-exclusive win, one isn't going to do it.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 18, 2009 19:07:14 GMT -5
Huh, paranoid much? I never said you weren't an investigator. I didn't even accuse you of anything. Oh, of course not, because when you say this: I am also 100% positive that there are shenanigans going on. I think once again we as a town have gotten too complacent and let our "power roles" do all the hard work for us. I knew this was too easy. ...and I'm the only power role remaining with any real useful power, you're obviously referring to MiteyMouse.
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Post by Almost Human on Jan 18, 2009 19:20:34 GMT -5
Balancing on my rickety chair to quickly vote sinjin.
Though I have seen town strongmen/scotsmen before (I've actually been one in an FB game) we're down to only 3 unconfirmed now. Out of you, cookies and Kid I find them less suspicious. While it isn't impossible Hoopy could be scum I do think it's highly unlikely. I know Idle doesn't use the JSexton formula but even so, a scum investigator, whether he could talk to his buddies or not as you suggested would unbalance the game far too much in scum's favour.
Cookies, I don't understand where you're getting the idea hoopy's claiming credit for the zeriel lynch. He's already answered you about it by saying he was talking about chuc and ed but I'm surprised you thought he could have been talking about zeriel.
You'd seemed really town to me up till this point but once I get back home and can access the internet without all this inconvenient balancing I'll have to do a proper reread.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 19:37:41 GMT -5
Almost Human I don't understand your vote. Do you understand we have 4 unconfirmed? Hoopy is not confirmed by anyone. "Who polices the police?"
And as far as the balance of the game goes, does anyone think that the whole day/night cycle where town got a lynch AND a night kill and scum got nothing had NO effect on the game? Have you added that into your balance equations? How does that work into your JSexton equations Hoopy?
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 20:16:34 GMT -5
When I made my first post this AM I was 100% sure there were shenanigans going on because of what I know about my role. I wasn't sure who was involved, but now I'm convinced, based on his actions that Hoopy is involved. As he requested I will be going over his posts. I understand that the actual town "confirmed" hope that he is town because then they have no worries, life is good, we win. I only hope that they will read my posts with an open mind. I will start with role pm's tonight and go into greater depth tomorrow.
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 18, 2009 20:36:05 GMT -5
Almost Human I don't understand your vote. Do you understand we have 4 unconfirmed? Hoopy is not confirmed by anyone. "Who polices the police?" And as far as the balance of the game goes, does anyone think that the whole day/night cycle where town got a lynch AND a night kill and scum got nothing had NO effect on the game? Have you added that into your balance equations? How does that work into your JSexton equations Hoopy? Sinjin, I was reading and actually second guessing Hoopy and leaning towards believing you for a while until this post. Let me explain why. You mention 4 unconfirmed including Hoopy...well if Hoopy is not telling the truth than wouldn't everyone he investigated be unconfirmed seeing as it was Hoopy that confirmed us? Why just the 4 of you? Unless you are Scum and therefore know that he is telling the truth and therefore already know all of our alignments are not Scum. This stinks of perfect knowledge. Vote Sinjin
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 20:37:26 GMT -5
Cookies Quote:
Zeriel Quote:
Blockey: Quote:
Sinjin: Quote:
Total Lost; Quote:
Special Ed:
Quote:
AH: Quote:
Hoopy: Quote:
Idle said upfront he was a lazy bastard and didn't believe in doing color. So why does Hoopy get three paragraphs of color when everyone else except the lying Mr. Ed get only one.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 20:43:45 GMT -5
Almost Human I don't understand your vote. Do you understand we have 4 unconfirmed? Hoopy is not confirmed by anyone. "Who polices the police?" And as far as the balance of the game goes, does anyone think that the whole day/night cycle where town got a lynch AND a night kill and scum got nothing had NO effect on the game? Have you added that into your balance equations? How does that work into your JSexton equations Hoopy? Sinjin, I was reading and actually second guessing Hoopy and leaning towards believing you for a while until this post. Let me explain why. You mention 4 unconfirmed including Hoopy...well if Hoopy is not telling the truth than wouldn't everyone he investigated be unconfirmed seeing as it was Hoopy that confirmed us? Why just the 4 of you? Unless you are Scum and therefore know that he is telling the truth and therefore already know all of our alignments are not Scum. This stinks of perfect knowledge. Vote SinjinYes I realized this, but the point I was trying to refute was that AH said there were 3 unconfirmed. I was trying to point out that Hoopy himself was unconfirmed. Hence my next statement "Who polices the police." I thought it was obvious from that that if he was scum, no one was confirmed.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 20:55:17 GMT -5
Mighty did you also miss this in my post immediately before yours:
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 18, 2009 21:17:05 GMT -5
I did read it Sinjin and I did read it with an open mind...like I said, I was believing you but, the 4 unconfirmed stinks of perfect knowledge. Also, I notice that you haven't quoted my PM which is pretty colourful. Then you said that EVERYONE got one line except Ed and HOOPY (paraphrased) yet, my very colourful PM was not included. I follow the arguement but, to not include mine, that was a main source of disagreement on Day 2 was a little too convient for me. I'm happy with my vote!
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 21:31:31 GMT -5
Mighty do you not feel that your role is something out of the ordinary in the typical Mafia game vs an investigator?
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 18, 2009 21:35:15 GMT -5
I have been thinking. I went back and was very confused as to why Santo claimed. He had been spinied. AH claimed right after her spiney. I'm not too sure and may have to look back at everyone who claims to have a spiney but, is it possible that they had to claim after the spinies?
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 21:36:20 GMT -5
And for the love of the FSM my statement of "four unconfirmed" is not equivalent to perfect knowledge. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Hell, I'm almost ready to surrender and let the scum win at this point.
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 18, 2009 21:46:57 GMT -5
Mighty do you not feel that your role is something out of the ordinary in the typical Mafia game vs an investigator? Yes, it is not a typical role but, why not include it in your list and say that then? When you said EVERYONE (except Ed) it just seems like the other colourful PM was left out to either make your point look better or you hoped that nobody would catch it.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 21:59:37 GMT -5
Ok, let's go back to Hoopy's claim on Day 5, post 20.
Um, who exactly was going to x-post* and lead us down a bad path? Kat had no votes on her and no suspicions. Mighty had one vote. There was no reason at that point for Hoopy to claim and 'save' either Kat or Mighty.
*What exactly is the danger of the x-post anyway? One person votes or posts something and then all is lost?
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Post by sinjin on Jan 18, 2009 22:04:46 GMT -5
Mighty do you not feel that your role is something out of the ordinary in the typical Mafia game vs an investigator? Yes, it is not a typical role but, why not include it in your list and say that then? When you said EVERYONE (except Ed) it just seems like the other colourful PM was left out to either make your point look better or you hoped that nobody would catch it. I'm sorry, I discounted yours because yours was special and I didn't include pede's because he lied about his first one and I don't feel confident that he didn't also lie about his second one. I do find it strange that Idle would find it worth his while to give a mundane mafia role a juicy pm. YMMV.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 18, 2009 23:41:11 GMT -5
I re-read hoopy's statement again and where he was saying "non-mario-universe" I was reading "pfk", so I mistakenly thought he was citing zeriel's lynch as evidence of his townieness. My bad.
KidV sure is getting the easy ride, is all I've gotta say.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 19, 2009 2:55:40 GMT -5
Sinjin - 3 votes (Hoopy, Almost Human, Miteymouse)
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 19, 2009 7:32:04 GMT -5
Ok, let's go back to Hoopy's claim on Day 5, post 20. Um, who exactly was going to x-post* and lead us down a bad path? Kat had no votes on her and no suspicions. Mighty had one vote. There was no reason at that point for Hoopy to claim and 'save' either Kat or Mighty. *What exactly is the danger of the x-post anyway? One person votes or posts something and then all is lost? Mitey had no votes. But Ed was talking about her lynch right out of the gun. Plus, we had a screwy mechanic that essentially locked people in. As soon as you placed a vote on someone who wasn't unvoted yet, you were guaranteed to leave an unvote on them if you wanted to vote someone else, which both Nanook and I explained in detail. So I didn't want to see a bunch of "votes" come down on any confirmed while I was writing a claim. So I threw out as a fast post who I confirmed, and then went into the details after the fact. It's not as if people could just remove their votes willy-nilly like you can in a normal voting mechanic. Do you really see my actions here as anti-town or particularly pro-scum?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 19, 2009 7:46:16 GMT -5
KidV sure is getting the easy ride, is all I've gotta say. True, but you said yourself in 5.44 that it's highly unlikely scum could have pounced that quickly. We might have to lynch him eventually anyway, depending on how Idle treats the masons once all scum are gone. But the PM I got yesterDay did say that for a solo win I had to be the last player left, so on that front, KidV isn't much of a threat. There is also the chance of a hidden mason that they were keeping in reserve to make the Mason exclusive win easier. Our mason team has very good players in it, and while I find it unlikely, what if Kat was another mason? I had confirmed her as town so the other masons didn't need to. I don't recommend we head this direction yet, since scum are a much higher priority, but if we get rid of our unconfirmed, and the game is still going on, we might need to look in that direction. And yes, if the scum leave me alive for WIFOM purposes, lynch me before any of those I've confirmed.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jan 19, 2009 7:51:27 GMT -5
There is also the chance of a hidden mason that they were keeping in reserve to make the Mason exclusive win easier. Our mason team has very good players in it, and while I find it unlikely, what if Kat was another mason? I had confirmed her as town so the other masons didn't need to. And yes, I know this contradicts my 3 mason thing earlier in the Day, but the thought of a hidden mason hadn't crossed my mind until now. Because it is unlikely.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 19, 2009 10:02:26 GMT -5
My case against Hoopy:
1) His fancy role pm.
2) His unwarranted early claim. His explanation for the x-post quote is weak. Go back and read that part of the day. People had already figured out that we shouldn't be voting and unvoting like we normally do. The only one after Mighty was Mr. Ed and even he didn't vote her he just suggested her as a lynch candidate.
3) He changed his criterion for investigation on night four and investigated Kat instead of pedescribe. But that worked out just fine because pede conveniently ended up dead at dawn.
4) He could have investigated me when I was the only one of the "unconfirmed" to claim non-vanilla but he chose not to. This could have saved the town two mislynches. Instead he investigated totallost who at that point had a lot of town cred and was in no immediate danger of a lynch.
5) The relentless way he has pursued my lynch both yesterDay and toDay, to the point of nastiness yesterDay. Why not lynch Cookies today if he is so sure that we are both scum. It's like she's dropped off the face of the earth as far as Hoopy is concerned.
6) He smudged KidV last night and is continuing to build a case against him today. He's doing this because he knows I'm town and he's going to need a new "unconfirmed" to go after tomorrow.
7) Why is Hoopy still alive? Why did scum conveniently leave the Doc alive till late in the game to allow Hoopy to continue with his investigations? Remember all the speculation earlier about how scum were acting sooooo strangely and conservatively?
8) He already knows he's going to be alive tomorrow and he's addressed that by telling us to lynch him before we lynch any of the "confirmed". Note, don't lynch him before we lynch the unconfirmed, lynch them first, then him. Again, how convenient.
9) And on preview I see he's starting to make a case against Kat as a potential evil mason as well.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 19, 2009 10:05:30 GMT -5
Hoopy's case against me:
1) I don't like your role, it's anti-town.
2) I didn't investigate you.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 19, 2009 10:11:39 GMT -5
Vote Hoopy
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