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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 27, 2009 12:16:14 GMT -5
Keep talking. Tell me more of what you think.
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 27, 2009 16:32:14 GMT -5
Ok, well at this point I am good and convinced that you are all dangerous third parties since not a one of you seems willing to continue to talk and help us figure out your alignment (not you story, you talked plenty). That being said I think I have to trust that story isn't the ke. I can't make that one make sense to me.
So that leaves the coinflip of three handed mafia.
Vote Roxis
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Post by Mister Blockey on Feb 27, 2009 16:54:43 GMT -5
Is no lynch an acceptable vote choice? yes
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 27, 2009 17:14:48 GMT -5
Is no lynch an acceptable vote choice? yes Good to know, in that case. Chameleon, why have you not actually voted for no lynch?
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 28, 2009 0:04:55 GMT -5
Sorry NAF - I checked back a few times over the last day or so and hadn't seen any responses until now. I had to get 2 wisdom teeth out this afternoon so was a little woozy - much better now I didn't know we were actually *voting* for a no lynch - I thought it was just a concensus and that we'd either just make certain there was a tie or no one would vote. Which is why I haven't voted - wasn't sure if Roxis was going to take her vote off so there were none, or that someone else needed to vote for a tie. I can't see how it matters one way or another. I don't know how much I can help the discussion - I looked for things to be suspicious of you for and found that you are actually more believable for suggesting the no-lynch (which I explained before). Unfortunately I can't deny that I look the most suspicious and the only suspicion of Roxis I have is that she's been very quiet and seems to want to encourage, or at least uphold the suspicion against me and little else. Storyteller I really can't read - I think it can be very clever to say you can't be killed by protecting yourself - but his initial statement of that was more threatening (daring someone to try and kill him) - which pings me a bit - but he hasn't really done anything else except maintain what his role is and done fair analysis. NAF, both you and Storyteller have been playing a lot longer than I (and longer than Roxis I presume) so I can't really put anything past him (or you really, but I think you've done things that pretty much prove you're town) - Story seems pro-town and has contributed a lot with a lot of various possibilities (as opposed to perpetrating only one theory like Roxis has - just being accusatory of me for the most part.) Thing is he could just be that good and taking advantage of us newer players - I really don't know - if he's the only one with a power left then he's got to be the killer, under the guise of a protector. But I have a hard time voting for him because we'd be screwed if he's town. Sorry I'm not really more helpful than that.
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Post by roxis on Feb 28, 2009 3:19:24 GMT -5
wasn't sure if Roxis was going to take her vote off so there were none, Yes, I was. I said I'd be fine with a no-lynch - I would gladly take my vote off, even now, if that's what we decide to do. (as opposed to perpetrating only one theory like Roxis has - just being accusatory of me for the most part.) Bill couldn't find you. Which really sucks if you're town (and would mean story is the KE), but I've said I'm less suspicious of him than you. His actions have come off mostly town to me. You and I have, for the most part, been ambiguous. And, in a lynch between you and I, I would be more than happy to be lynched if we weren't at lylo. But because we are at lylo and I know I'm vanilla town, you're the most obvious vote choice for me.
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Post by roxis on Feb 28, 2009 3:26:43 GMT -5
And yes, I have been quiet this game. It says nothing about my alignment, though. Being quiet is just as unusual for a scum roxis as it is for a town roxis. I've just found that I have less to contribute in this game than in previous games I've participated in.
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 28, 2009 16:26:52 GMT -5
Sorry NAF - I checked back a few times over the last day or so and hadn't seen any responses until now. I had to get 2 wisdom teeth out this afternoon so was a little woozy - much better now I didn't know we were actually *voting* for a no lynch - I thought it was just a concensus and that we'd either just make certain there was a tie or no one would vote. Which is why I haven't voted - wasn't sure if Roxis was going to take her vote off so there were none, or that someone else needed to vote for a tie. I can't see how it matters one way or another. I don't know how much I can help the discussion - I looked for things to be suspicious of you for and found that you are actually more believable for suggesting the no-lynch (which I explained before). Unfortunately I can't deny that I look the most suspicious and the only suspicion of Roxis I have is that she's been very quiet and seems to want to encourage, or at least uphold the suspicion against me and little else. Storyteller I really can't read - I think it can be very clever to say you can't be killed by protecting yourself - but his initial statement of that was more threatening (daring someone to try and kill him) - which pings me a bit - but he hasn't really done anything else except maintain what his role is and done fair analysis. NAF, both you and Storyteller have been playing a lot longer than I (and longer than Roxis I presume) so I can't really put anything past him (or you really, but I think you've done things that pretty much prove you're town) - Story seems pro-town and has contributed a lot with a lot of various possibilities (as opposed to perpetrating only one theory like Roxis has - just being accusatory of me for the most part.) Thing is he could just be that good and taking advantage of us newer players - I really don't know - if he's the only one with a power left then he's got to be the killer, under the guise of a protector. But I have a hard time voting for him because we'd be screwed if he's town. Sorry I'm not really more helpful than that.
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 28, 2009 16:28:16 GMT -5
Sorry about that last post (sometimes if I hit enter the forum will post for me. It's annoying). Let's assume that these two posts are one.
vote chameleon
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 28, 2009 17:23:45 GMT -5
I'm confused NAF. I bascially only explained why I hadn't made a vote and reiterated what I said previously and now you're voting for me instead of having a no-lynch, which was your suggestion. You also didn't unvote Roxis. Can you at least say why you've changed your mind?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 28, 2009 18:37:46 GMT -5
Concur. NAF, your current active vote is for roxis.
For my part, I'm going to read back over this Day one last time. Something is nudging at me, but I can't quite articulate it and I'm hoping one more re-read will provide clarity.
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 28, 2009 20:19:46 GMT -5
I can't explain what was wrong with your post there Chameleon, but there was something wrong. I am shooting from the hip because I don't have a better option and you aren't voting no lynch. Even after you were told no lynch was a vote option you aren't voting no lynch. That makes me think you actually want there to be a lynch.
I have no good explanation for why you weren't tracked but it's the only other piece of evidence we have. If story is the KE...if story is the KE then he has won. I always wondered what would happen if it came down to me and story in an endgame scenario and we weren't on the same side and I hope that this is not the game where I find out. But if it is, congrats story. The only other thing I had was my previous vote on Roxis Story didn't move on either vote, and you didn't comment on my Roxis vote. In fact no one said anything about it including Roxis, which makes me think it was wrong.
So that's three strikes for Chameleon
in case that other vote was active
unvote roxis vote chameleon
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 28, 2009 20:44:21 GMT -5
I can't explain what was wrong with your post there Chameleon, but there was something wrong. I am shooting from the hip because I don't have a better option and you aren't voting no lynch. Even after you were told no lynch was a vote option you aren't voting no lynch. That makes me think you actually want there to be a lynch. NAF - I agree with you about the above. But here's the million dollar question: if Chameleon is indeed the KE, why would he actually want a lynch?I've been thinking about it and thinking about it, and it seems to me that a no-lynch favors the KE tremendously. It simply cannot hurt him/her. If we don't lynch toDay, at all, then hell, the KE has a chance to take out either you or me and go into toMorrow at definite lynch or lose, with his/her situation completely undamaged. Even if I block the kill attempt, we're just back toMorrow where we are now. On the other hand, if we lynch toDay, even if we get it wrong, the game is not over. If we lynch, say, roxis, and he's not the KE, well then, toNight, I have a 50% chance of blocking Chameleon (going on faith that NAF is not the KE, which I must), then insta-lynching him toMorrow for the (presumed) win. Thus a lynch is definitely bad for the KE if the KE is either roxis or Cham (if it's you, NAF, then as you say - congratulations, and well played). Now here's an interesting question, the source of my little bubble of uncertainty to which I alluded earlier this evening: suppose Chameleon is a non-KE PFK. What then? Well, a non-KE PFK wants the KE eliminated immediately. Lynching one, then lynching the other toMorrow, is a losing proposition for a non-KE PFK no matter what. Depending on his/her win condition, a non-KE PFK could hypothetically win even if we lynch the KE toDay. If this is the case, then we're in an interesting spot, because we would in fact be best served to lynch the non-KE PFK first, then play chicken with the KE toNight for the win. The most rational explanation for everything we've seen is simply this: Chameleon is a non-KE PFK, who is immune to all Night actions and wins if he is the last PFK standing. Roxis is the killer. NAF is vanilla. I am a Doctor. This is my guess. What do you think of this guess, NAF, and if it's correct, what do we do? Lynch roxis? We might lose immediately. Lynch Chameleon? Well, fuck, then it's a coin flip. Thoughts?
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 28, 2009 21:12:36 GMT -5
Its that kind of post that makes me kinda sorta trust you story. Even after I said I wouldn't vote for you you throw that stuff out there. If you are the KE there is no need to try that hard, it makes it hard not to trust you. And at this point I'm glad these 2 weren't watching your first game with perfect knowledge like I was, or them might be second guessing themselves like I am.
I think the above favors a Chameleon lynch, actually, story. Don't go around in circles too often. If she is the KE a no lynch favors her, but so does any lynch that isn't her. So she pushes for no lynch without actually making any kind of stand, because that is instinctively the safe play. And yeah, if we kill the KE then it is game over and if there are other PFKs out there, oh well. Which would be why Roxis as a non KE PFK would want a lynch of Chameleon. It's advantage PFKs at this point, no two ways about it. If we lynch anyone but the KE town has a coinflip to keep going and if we do lynch the KE any other PFK might take it.
Here is my thinking, honestly. I have thought about this a fair bit too. I think I have lost. I am 90% certain that you aren't the KE. But I am more than 50% sure that you are third party. I am hoping that you are not. If you aren't maybe town can still win this. What I am totally clueless about is Roxis's alignment, and she isn't making it easier. If she is town and the game doesn't end with this lynch, we lynch you tomorrow (assuming we kill the KE today) and town wins. What I think is more likely is that she is a survivor or other passive third party, and doesn't want to rock the boat, hence the quiet in the face of everything. If she was town I would be expecting her to try harder to figure this out. So, I think it's likely that its 3 third partys vs me right now, and its a four way race to the finish that I can't really win.
But I want to lynch the KE. Lynching the KE will constitute a personal victory and I am ok with that. I do think that Chameleon is more likely the KE.
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Post by roxis on Feb 28, 2009 21:21:42 GMT -5
Story, I honestly can't imagine there being two more PFK/third-party/scum/non-town (just so I'm covering all my bases here). That would mean that out of 12 players, 5 would be anti-town. Now, I haven't played very many games, but that seems just a tad unbalanced to me.
I think the best explanation is the one that someone else (was it Chameleon?) gave - it appears as though we only have one KE (not counting Hoopy, who wasn't really a killing entity). Since there is only one major threat to town, it stands to reason that s/he would be considerably more powerful - otherwise, it could be virtually over if someone got lucky with one of Hoopy's knives.
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Post by roxis on Feb 28, 2009 21:27:10 GMT -5
If she was town I would be expecting her to try harder to figure this out. I feel like I have figured it out. I feel like it's Chameleon. At this point, I don't know why we're assuming there's multiple third-parties left. That seems absurd. As I've stated, I trust NAF, and story's actions have led me to believe he's town, which leaves Chameleon. I don't know what else to speculate on. Ugh, and if I were an ambiguous third-party that could win with either side, I would have claimed my true role, trust me. I detest vanilla claims, absolutely.
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Post by NAF1138 on Feb 28, 2009 22:28:05 GMT -5
If she was town I would be expecting her to try harder to figure this out. I feel like I have figured it out. I feel like it's Chameleon. At this point, I don't know why we're assuming there's multiple third-parties left. That seems absurd. As I've stated, I trust NAF, and story's actions have led me to believe he's town, which leaves Chameleon. I don't know what else to speculate on. Ugh, and if I were an ambiguous third-party that could win with either side, I would have claimed my true role, trust me. I detest vanilla claims, absolutely. You know what, I find this post to be oddly comforting. I am happy with my vote, and am ready to see where the chips fall in this thing.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 28, 2009 23:34:25 GMT -5
OK, man. Let's do it.
vote Chameleon
And we'll see what happens then.
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Post by Chameleon on Feb 28, 2009 23:43:44 GMT -5
I can't explain what was wrong with your post there Chameleon, but there was something wrong. I am shooting from the hip because I don't have a better option and you aren't voting no lynch. Even after you were told no lynch was a vote option you aren't voting no lynch. That makes me think you actually want there to be a lynch. I have no good explanation for why you weren't tracked but it's the only other piece of evidence we have. If story is the KE...if story is the KE then he has won. I always wondered what would happen if it came down to me and story in an endgame scenario and we weren't on the same side and I hope that this is not the game where I find out. But if it is, congrats story. The only other thing I had was my previous vote on Roxis Story didn't move on either vote, and you didn't comment on my Roxis vote. In fact no one said anything about it including Roxis, which makes me think it was wrong. So that's three strikes for Chameleon in case that other vote was active unvote roxis vote chameleonOk, I guess I didn't explain it well, but I didn't think we actually had to *vote* for no-lynch - as I said I thought it was just an understanding that either no one would vote or we would have a tie vote. As for not saying anything about your vote on Roxis - well, that was because I thought you were creating a tie since Roxis had a vote on me in order to have the no-lynch you suggested - it made sense to me for you to make that vote in that context. I liked the idea of a no-lynch because it buys us an extra day with possible information after night. However it could also leave us exactly where we are now, which is frustrating. But not nearly as frustrating as knowing you're risking a town loss by lynching me. It just doesn't seem like the smartest chance to take at the moment when we're so close. I don't know what to do at this point if you won't believe me - my hands are tied (even if inside my head I am jumping up and down and screaming not to lynch me to give town a better chance). But I will vote for the no-lynch because I believe it will buy us time. That will leave things up to Story if he believes a no-lynch is best as well - then he can also vote no-lynch and create a tie (if it works that way). Vote no-lynch
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Post by Mister Blockey on Feb 28, 2009 23:58:38 GMT -5
Current Vote Count
Chameleon: Roxis, NAF, Storyteller No Lynch: Chameleon
A 12 hour count down was started at 11:39 pm. Day will now end at 11:39 am EST tomorrow.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Mar 1, 2009 12:07:50 GMT -5
Roxis, NAF, and Storyteller all advance on Chameleon.
"Come on guys, let's just not kill anybody" she says.
"Nah, I think we're just gonna roll the dice" NAF breaks off a chair leg and swipes at her, snagging on something. Chameleon's skin starts to pull and stretch, and as NAF pulls back, tears completely off. Suddenly in Chameleon's place is a large skinless man-badger.
She lunges for Roxis claws out and teeth bared but a loose floorboard knocks Roxis to the ground, causing Chameleon to miss, flying overhead.
Storyteller grabs a fire poker and swings it at the back of the man-badger's leg, sinking the spike in and then ripping. Chameleon howls in a rage flailing wildly as NAF and Roxis follow Storyteller's lead and the three start stabbing her with chair legs and fire tools.
Finally she lays quiet.
The three living stare at each other, all drenched in blood and breathing heavily.
"Is it over" Roxis wheezes.
A booming from the walls, "Yes I suppose it is. I should probably let you go now."
The three look up sighing in relief. NAF steps towards the door hanging open, but it slams shut.
"On the other hand I am evil and all" The walls begin to shake, floorboards pop up like teeth.
"NO" Storyteller shouts and the house settles slightly. Cutting his palm on a splinter of wood he smacks it onto a wall. "By the Spoooky bloodline you shall keep your vow!"
The house falls still and the door swings open again. NAF and Roxis just stare at Storyteller.
"Run." he says
They barrel out, Storyteller taking up the rear twenty feet behind, as soon as his feet cross the threshold an unholy howl emits from the house. Bricks fly out of the chimney, peppering the ground around them, but all three pass the end of the driveway.
"It's over." NAF pants, "It's finally over."
Chameleon is dead, she was a murderous skinwalker(serial killer)
All threats to the town have died. Town wins!
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Post by Mister Blockey on Mar 1, 2009 12:14:21 GMT -5
A bit of information for the curious. The tracker role was quite deliberately a red herring. All anti-town roles but one were specifically designed to avoid or confuse the tracker. The goal was to balance this so that each pfk had the same chance of winning as the town, not pfks as a whole. I may not have quite got it as close as I wanted, but I do know that town had it much worse than a standard balance would have allowed.
In addition the redirector would have turned into another serial killer had it still been alive and the two other sk's dead. The Doctor was the only power role which was actually pro-town in application, despite the tracker winning with the town.
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Post by BillMc on Mar 1, 2009 16:30:22 GMT -5
Good game!
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Post by roxis on Mar 1, 2009 16:59:47 GMT -5
Good job guys. Sorry for my ambiguous playstyle there, but hey, we won!
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Trepa Mayfield
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Does Not Follow Directions
The only kind of panda worth preserving.
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Mar 1, 2009 18:42:12 GMT -5
I certainly enjoyed watching.
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Post by Chameleon on Mar 2, 2009 2:47:00 GMT -5
God dammit - I was so close Funny how I was a shape shifter - being Chameleon and all I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did considering Seattleguy redirected me on night one with a lucky random choice (I'm assuming it was random). So Pede I wasn't actually trying to kill you on night one - not then anyway
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Post by Chameleon on Mar 2, 2009 2:50:03 GMT -5
Oh - I was trying to kill Storyteller on night one...
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Post by BillMc on Mar 2, 2009 5:57:30 GMT -5
Yeah, had I got the knife instead of NAF I would have used it on you Chameleon lol :-)
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Post by NAF1138 on Mar 2, 2009 10:50:22 GMT -5
Hey, we won! Nice! Good game all.
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Mar 2, 2009 13:03:12 GMT -5
Fun as always - I do love the minigames
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