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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 17:59:47 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Apr 30, 2009 17:59:47 GMT -5
Ok, why don't we stop playing around? There seems to be a bunch of subtext going on and all you meta-players know what is going down. NAF, I think it was you who said "if I can figure it out so can scum working as a group." So for the sake of all that's holy. WTF?
What I can piece out is:
1) Pleo claims a brazillion powers a) not night-killable b) recruitable, could end up town, could end up scum c) investigates as a bad guy, possibly
So what? Is he PFK, Dr. Horrible, up for the highest bidder tonight while we all sleep?
Can we stop being coy?
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 18:04:47 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Apr 30, 2009 18:04:47 GMT -5
But yeah, if EVER Pleonast you suddenly don't want to die.... That's going to set off HUGE ALARMS in my head, and I'm going want you to hang... no hurt feelings. No, hurt feelings; it's the point of my claim. I've dug a hole for myself deep enough that I can't climb out, even if I wanted to (because I switched sides). Thus the scum would be stupid to recruit me, and I'll stay Townie. And by eliminating a recruit target (or the only one if we're lucky), I've made it that much easier for the Town to win. It's the perfect win-win-lose for me, the Town, and the scum. I don't really know how the recruitment works, since it's based on my interpretation of my PM. I have no idea if a recruitment replaces their kill or if it's an interaction between one specific scum and myself. I do think that only a limited number players are recruitable, maybe only me. I also think it's quite possible that another Town has some power relevant to me, maybe to protect me from recruitment or turn me back or somehow test my alignment (separate from a more general investigator). From a mod perspective, if I ever use "recruitment" again, it would be via conditional win conditions, possibly hidden initially. That's what may be coloring my interpretation of my pm. I could easily imagine getting a pm from the moderator saying, "and because ... happened, you now win if ..." and have it fit well with my existing pm.
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 18:11:19 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Apr 30, 2009 18:11:19 GMT -5
How does that equate to stifling discussion? We can discuss Pleonast all Day and you know what? It will get us nowhere. No matter what Pleonast turns up being, any position on Pleonast can equally be held by Scum or by Town. If Pleonast turns up Town do you think all the discussion about Pleonast will reveal anything? What if he turns up Scum? I don't see any point to it. Pleonast has set himself up for lynching. The only discussion is whether it is Today or Tomorrow. I don't see any way to distinguish between Scum and Town based on those positions. Gah! See, now you're misrepresenting what I said. I said you were trying to table discussion, not stifle discussion. In fact, I went so far as to make sure I didn't use stifle at all in my post because I'm well aware you don't want the discussion to end, you just want to move it to a separate Day. The thing is, there's very little else to discuss toDay. Sure, maybe somebody else will pull a claim out for the hell of it and we'll have that. But while Pleonast has volunteered this information, why not discuss it now and not later? I mean, just look. Me saying that I didn't care about Pleonast's claim and it was just a bunch of WiFoM sparked a whole 'nother set of reactions. And while you want to table it until tomorrow under the assumption that maybe Pleonast will end up dead anyway, tomorrow there will be additional information to discuss. Such as the alignment and reasoning behind who we lynch instead of Pleonast toDay, as well as who dies overNight (if anybody). I mean, all sorts of crazy shit happens Night One for information flow. Tabling the discussion until tomorrow just will add that to the table as well as all the other things that are possible to discuss, and Pleonast might end up getting lost in the shuffle and forgotten about. I guess you and I just disagree that a discussion on Pleonast and what to do with him might yield useful information. The crack about ponies mischaracterizes my opinion: "let's talk about something else" is not equivalent to "lets talk about something useless." *throws hands up in the air* That wasn't supposed to be serious. You know, apparently this board just refuses to allow me to be funny. Fuck fluff and jokes. I'm just going to be as straight-laced as Ben Stein. I hope all of you imagine my posts in a droning monotone from now on. I didn't think that was what sachertorte was saying at all. *throws hands up in the air again and gurgles* Oh, and it wasn't just the joke vote; it was also you coming in and saying "meh" about the topic the rest of us were already talking about. If you'd wanted to change the subject or point your finger elsewhere, that would have been different and I would have probably just filed it away in my mental filing cabinet for later consideration. Lemme clarify my position on Pleonast then. I think what he's done is a null tell and just WiFoM. In the Gastard game, Pleonast immediately came out with his Executioner role and let the town know what was up. Of course, in that game he gave all the information right away. (He was town in that game, btw.) Basically, if he is keeping information from us and he's town, he's got a reason for it. If he's scum and is being properly obtuse, he's got a reason for that too. But regardless, it's Pleonast being Pleonast playing as Pleonast, so his style to me is a null tell. Thus my statement of why I was trying to care but couldn't.
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 19:29:43 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Apr 30, 2009 19:29:43 GMT -5
So I'm magically supposed to know which parts of your posts are serious and which ones are "just jokes" ? You realize you voted for me in that post right? Was that supposed to be a joke too?
You are certainly allowed to be funny; but your failure to actually be funny isn't my fault.
I've stated my position as clearly as I can. Your explanation for your vote is neither sensible nor funny. You seem to agree with me that there is little about Pleonast worth discussing, yet you find it apropos to vote for me for pointing out that obsessing about Pleonast is not in the Town's best interest.
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 20:57:50 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Apr 30, 2009 20:57:50 GMT -5
So I'm magically supposed to know which parts of your posts are serious and which ones are "just jokes" ? You realize you voted for me in that post right? Was that supposed to be a joke too? You are certainly allowed to be funny; but your failure to actually be funny isn't my fault. I know, that's why I'm pissed off that I'm failing to be funny. Usually if I reference ponies people know I'm not being particularly serious. I'll try to be more George Carlin and less Adam Sandler from now on. I've stated my position as clearly as I can. Your explanation for your vote is neither sensible nor funny. You seem to agree with me that there is little about Pleonast worth discussing, yet you find it apropos to vote for me for pointing out that obsessing about Pleonast is not in the Town's best interest. Heh. I was wondering when somebody would bring this up. Okay, here's the difference between why I'm voting for you and what I've said. I gave my opinion that I think Pleonast is a null tell. But that's MY opinion. I still want to see everybody else's opinion on the matter. I don't want to wait until tomorrow to decide what to do to Pleonast because I think it's the best point of discussion we have right now. It's brought about this discussion and my vote for you, hasn't it? I voted for you, because you want to wait until tomorrow to decide what to do with him and you think that there's absolutely nothing to gain from discussing Pleonast toDay. Just because Pleonast has given us minimal information to work with in his own claim doesn't mean that other people discussing it won't net information. I just don't see the post of waiting to discuss something tomorrow when you can discuss it toDay. We'll have other information to discuss tomorrow. *shrug*
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 21:19:34 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Apr 30, 2009 21:19:34 GMT -5
And I don't see where you go from my wanting to discuss something else to deciding my wanting to put Pleonast off to Tomorrow is an indication of scum.
My point is that since Pleonast has told us we need to lynch him, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about Pleonast. There's nothing to gain from this information. Discerning scum from town after Pleonast tells us we need to lynch him is not useful. So some will say lynch him Today and some will say Lynch Tomorrow. So what? Neither one will reveal anything about scum, no matter what Pleonast turns out to be.
And *obviously* Pleonast should be put off until tomorrow since he could be killed by the Vig thus saving us the trouble of lynching him.
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 23:08:47 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 30, 2009 23:08:47 GMT -5
I think I'm in favor of sooner, but keeping in mind the risk of a hammer I'll withhold voting for now. Does he REALLY have that many votes already on him to worry about a Hammer? That'd take 11 votes I believe (Majority), I don't think he's anywhere close to that. Also, if there WERE a ton of voters who suddenly created a Hammer, I'd like to see that, as that's reDICULOUSly suspicious. So I don't think you really have to "worry" about that sort of thing currently as a justification for not voting. Except I'm only able to check in evenings, so I'm not around to remove my vote if things start creeping towards that threshold. If nothing else changes, that's where I'll be putting my vote. I just don't wanna do it yet.
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Day One
Apr 30, 2009 23:19:28 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Apr 30, 2009 23:19:28 GMT -5
And now that I've read the rest of the thread, that strikes me as an odd vote, Roosh. With all that's going on, my reluctance to put a vote on the board is the scummiest thing you've seen yet? Because that kinda looks to me like you think you've found a safe place to put yours...
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 1, 2009 0:45:37 GMT -5
Might as well make it official. Vote: paul I haven't yet seen a post from you that allays my suspicions.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on May 1, 2009 5:04:10 GMT -5
I have no idea how recruitment would work in a game. The only one I ever played in with recruitment is the NAFKAT on still going on.
As for talking about the vote, that was a joke and the vote for the vote for the vote - I think is getting really interesting. I'll have to go back and re-read knowing what I know now about the reason poeple did what they did.
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Post by The Real FCOD on May 1, 2009 8:22:32 GMT -5
Vote Count:
Sister Coyote (2) - zlw, Paul Paul (2) - NAF1138, Inner Stickler KidV (1) - Roosh sachertorte (1) - Pollux
--FCOD
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 1, 2009 9:41:43 GMT -5
Might as well make it official. Vote: paul [/colo] I haven't yet seen a post from you that allays my suspicions. And I need to prove myself to you because.....? I explained my vote and it wasn't unfounded. And it was 50% for the reasons I stated and 50% to see how SisC reacted. Pretty telling the way that she did react. Of course that could be because she is still learning how to play. It was/is still early in the day and I have plenty of time to place my vote wherever I like. You voting for me is just play stupid. You say that I have little content in the post where you FOS me, but I have as much if not more content posts than you do. And you seem to forget that it's frackin Day 1 so of course I'm gonna start the Day off with some fluff. That's just my posting style. This makes me curious about something though. What else would you like to discuss though on Day 1 ? (Not Sarcasm actually) Well, it seems to me that our options at the moment are: 1. Lynch Pleonast 2. Random Lynch 3. Lynch a Lurker Assuming that Town outnumbers Scum, 2 and 3 have good odds of hitting Townies. I'd prefer to leave any town-killing to scum. I don't really want to lynch Pleo at this point but I haven't seen another possibility yet. Here you say that the three options you see are to lynch Pleo, random lynch, or LTL. This is after you FOS me. Odd that you didn't bring up the option of lynching the person you found to be most suspicious. And yet now you are voting me and not a lurker or voting randomly. One last thing that I found odd. I feel like we've spent quite a bit of time on it and I don't think we can worry anything else one way or the other until he returns. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking toward dusk and we don't have any good leads. You seem to imply that time is running out. We have until Tuesday. That's a lot of time. Why do you seem so antsy?
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Day One
May 1, 2009 10:51:06 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on May 1, 2009 10:51:06 GMT -5
Because every minute that slips by is a lost chance to find scum.
And I FOS'd you and got nothing. I'd have thought that the time for a defense was then. Apparently it's votes that trip your trigger. I'll remember that for next time.
I hate voting for lurkers or voting randomly. Hate it. I much prefer lynching Pleo over either of those positions. But Almost Human makes a good point. We should be scumhunting, so tally-ho!
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Day One
May 1, 2009 13:34:28 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 1, 2009 13:34:28 GMT -5
FOS's are stupid. The only reason to FOS someone is to say that you would be voting them if you weren't already voting for someone else and want to keep your vote there. Otherwise a FOS just says I would vote you but I'm not convinced that you are pinging me enough to warrant a vote.... or I'd vote you but I don't have the balls to put myself on the line by making my actions concrete and allowing them to be analyzed by everyone else.
So no... I don't respond to a FOS usually. Unless I can find some humor in it and make a comment about it in a joking manner. Anyone who has played with me before should be able to confirm that.
Besides that, you have no case against me, so there really isn't anything for me to do to defend myself.
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 1, 2009 15:24:23 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 1, 2009 15:24:23 GMT -5
And now that I've read the rest of the thread, that strikes me as an odd vote, Roosh. With all that's going on, my reluctance to put a vote on the board is the scummiest thing you've seen yet? Because that kinda looks to me like you think you've found a safe place to put yours... You can bring that argument up with me toMorrow if we're both still alive at that point. I voted for you as the scummiest so FAR. The Day is still young, and I'm sure as more words are said things will move around. All that's going down when I made that vote- you were the scummiest. The Joke vote issue is silly, and I'm dealing with the Pleo issue as I see fit. The only other odd vote was your tone in your none vote. But it was an early vote. People HAVE to make the first couple votes, ya know? But nice smudge. I'll take your defensiveness into consideration.
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 1, 2009 15:32:34 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 1, 2009 15:32:34 GMT -5
-snip- And by eliminating a recruit target (or the only one if we're lucky), I've made it that much easier for the Town to win. It's the perfect win-win-lose for me, the Town, and the scum. I think we can ALL figure out who you are by this post.... Gee, who's the first if only one character in that entire Singalong who comes to mind when you think of who could POSSIBLY be recruited into the ELE? Good job... Doctor.
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Day One
May 1, 2009 15:47:43 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 1, 2009 15:47:43 GMT -5
-snip- And by eliminating a recruit target (or the only one if we're lucky), I've made it that much easier for the Town to win. It's the perfect win-win-lose for me, the Town, and the scum. I think we can ALL figure out who you are by this post.... Gee, who's the first if only one character in that entire Singalong who comes to mind when you think of who could POSSIBLY be recruited into the ELE? Good job... Doctor. I haven't watched it yet, so I have no idea.
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Day One
May 1, 2009 21:20:20 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 1, 2009 21:20:20 GMT -5
Yeah, ok, so I won't be voting Pleo, prolly.
Dinnertime, will try to be back later.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on May 2, 2009 1:03:56 GMT -5
I haven't watched it yet, so I have no idea. Then you're missing out. *Spoiler* One of the subplot of the thing is basically Dr. Horrible gets an invitation to join the ELE. And he goes about trying to accomplish this task. So yeah, if there's ONE PERSON the ELE wants to recruit... it'd be Dr. H based on the Series. No one else in the series gets an invitation from the ELE to join up (Moist though does invite Dr.H to join the Henchmen league though, but Dr.H is too cool for that stuff).
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Post by Almost Human on May 2, 2009 9:07:46 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;">Ok, seriously. Those of you who haven't yet watched should be ashamed. Let me know via PM if hulu doesn't work for you. --FCOD If you're in Europe you might need to download it from Mininova or some other such site (it's totally legal - *cough*) OK - this has confused me somewhat: <font style="font-size: 12px;"> Telling everyone I could be recruited makes me an unappetizing target for recruitment since I'm not going to survive to the end game. Scum won't recruit someone who's on the short list for lynching. Also note that I am hoping someone can protect me from recruitment.
<snip>
My self protection extends to all Night kills, including scum. This is the primary risk of lynching me, because of the obvious advantages to the Town if a night-kill-resistant pro-Town player survives to end game. The two underlined statements are direct contradictions. If there is someone who could protect you from recruitment wouldn't that person's protection be better utilized protecting someone who doesn't come with all of your liabilities? On a side note I'm pretty sure I understand why sachertorte wants to wait until day 2 to lynch you. But really if I could figure it out, scum can too.For a start I'm not sure what you think scum can figure out unless you're talking about pleo being vigged but I don't see why you would be as it'd already been discussed. Suffice it to say, I'm stumped. But more importantly you later say this: <font style="font-size: 12px;"> Ok, why don't we stop playing around? There seems to be a bunch of subtext going on and all you meta-players know what is going down. NAF, I think it was you who said "if I can figure it out so can scum working as a group." So for the sake of all that's holy. WTF? What I can piece out is: 1) Pleo claims a brazillion powers a) not night-killable b) recruitable, could end up town, could end up scum c) investigates as a bad guy, possibly So what? Is he PFK, Dr. Horrible, up for the highest bidder tonight while we all sleep? Can we stop being coy? Aren't these direct contradictions of each other or am I just being thick?
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Post by Almost Human on May 2, 2009 9:10:45 GMT -5
Bah - my bolding didn't work. Basically in the above post I meant to reference sinjin's first post where she says
"On a side note I'm pretty sure I understand why sachertorte wants to wait until day 2 to lynch you. But really if I could figure it out, scum can too."
and then later says
"Ok, why don't we stop playing around? There seems to be a bunch of subtext going on and all you meta-players know what is going down. NAF, I think it was you who said "if I can figure it out so can scum working as a group."
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Post by Almost Human on May 2, 2009 9:16:02 GMT -5
Mitey, I know the in-laws are about but come and play - this is your only post so far! <font style="font-size: 12px;">I'm not sure what to make of Pleo's claim right now. It's WiFoM at best. Why would he be claiming the way that he did on Day 1? It's jusy odd to me...I'm going to have to think this one over for a bit!
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Post by Almost Human on May 2, 2009 9:21:14 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;">I have no idea how recruitment would work in a game. The only one I ever played in with recruitment is the NAFKAT on still going on. As for talking about the vote, that was a joke and the vote for the vote for the vote - I think is getting really interesting. I'll have to go back and re-read knowing what I know now about the reason poeple did what they did. Pede's Terminator game had recruitment - scum recruited zeriel. And Pollux was recruited in the Marvel game though I can't remember if you played that one.
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Post by sinjin on May 2, 2009 9:27:23 GMT -5
Bah - my bolding didn't work. Basically in the above post I meant to reference sinjin's first post where she says "On a side note I'm pretty sure I understand why sachertorte wants to wait until day 2 to lynch you. But really if I could figure it out, scum can too."
and then later says
"Ok, why don't we stop playing around? There seems to be a bunch of subtext going on and all you meta-players know what is going down. NAF, I think it was you who said "if I can figure it out so can scum working as a group."Simply put between those two posts I realized that my first assumption about why sacher wanted to let Pleo go until tomorrow was completely and totally wrong. My original thought was that Pleo was a bomb, scum kill Pleo, scum die too. Doh! There were two whole days between those posts AH.
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Post by Almost Human on May 2, 2009 9:31:26 GMT -5
And I'm really not understanding why it isn't clear when PSS is joking. Maybe the humour translates better into British English - I dunno.
Also someone with itchy balls really deserves our support.
Plus he has a dancing NPH - what more could anyone want!
OK, now I'm just making sure I have a decent postcount - I'll shut up.
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Post by Almost Human on May 2, 2009 9:32:25 GMT -5
Bah - my bolding didn't work. Basically in the above post I meant to reference sinjin's first post where she says "On a side note I'm pretty sure I understand why sachertorte wants to wait until day 2 to lynch you. But really if I could figure it out, scum can too."
and then later says
"Ok, why don't we stop playing around? There seems to be a bunch of subtext going on and all you meta-players know what is going down. NAF, I think it was you who said "if I can figure it out so can scum working as a group."Simply put between those two posts I realized that my first assumption about why sacher wanted to let Pleo go until tomorrow was completely and totally wrong. My original thought was that Pleo was a bomb, scum kill Pleo, scum die too. Doh! There were two whole days between those posts AH. That's cool - I just didn't get it. Now I do
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on May 2, 2009 9:37:41 GMT -5
Bit of a catch up post: Since the obvious response to a recruitable player is a Night-kill (so we don't have to waste a lynch), the fact that I'm difficult to Night kill becomes important. That's why I revealed it. Yeah, it means that the Scum won't bother to Night kill me, but it avoids the Town unproductively wondering why I didn't die. Why should scum bother to Night kill you in the first place if you're recruitable? You seem to suggest you are dangerous to scum, thus we should lynch asap? And keeping the options open, since you didn't confirm you're Horrible. I wonder how the henchman fit into the might-be-something-recruitable-mechanic. For example, Dr. Horrible already in ELE, can recruit Moist? But that doesn't really make a difference for the current situation. Ok, why don't we stop playing around? <snip> So what? Is he PFK, Dr. Horrible, up for the highest bidder tonight while we all sleep? Can we stop being coy? (My snip) sinjin, if we should stop playing around and you're the biggest proponent for an immediate Pleonast lynch - why no vote? I'm in favor or waiting a Day, if it wasn't clear. The other in favor of lynching now that I saw was KidVermicious: If nothing else changes, that's where I'll be putting my vote. I just don't wanna do it yet. Except he changed his mind: Yeah, ok, so I won't be voting Pleo, prolly. What are the reason why you won't be voting Pleonast anymore? You responded to a post why you didn't vote in the first place, not what changed about the situation itself.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on May 2, 2009 9:54:18 GMT -5
And on my reread, I'll drag up an old post: If that happens before everybody has made five posts, then some people (possibly including me) will find themselves on a warning and under some pressure. If they then do the hammer bit again and catch people out, that's a problem. The ELE have used the rules to get a mass Daykill in; if they get two Townies that way, that's the equivalent of a Mislynch and Nightkill. The time before the Town reaches Lylo is reduced by one whole Day. Yes, but if they do it again it becomes pretty obvious, though the mod-kill/pressure might still be worth later in the game. On Day One I don't see much benefit for scum to do it and I wanted to know from sinjin why she quoted it from Pleonast with the remark 'especially since Pleo has decided to claim almost instantaneously'. It got sinjin turning up in my posts a lot it seems, but I don't actually think lynching Pleonast right away is anti-town. She just sticks out to me with her opposite way of dealing with the claim.
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Natlaw
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Day One
May 2, 2009 10:19:24 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on May 2, 2009 10:19:24 GMT -5
So 'tabling' the Pleonast discussion for the moment. We got votes for Sister Coyote for forgetting scum can Day talk and voting for a joke vote. Votes for Paul for placing a vote and not talking much otherwise. A vote for KidVermicious for not wanting to hammer someone who has no votes. And a vote for sachertorte for wanting to table the Pleonast discussion until Tomorrow. I can agree the most with the cases for KidV and Paul, though I do get a bit of lynch the lurker idea with them. But there are others, specifically Inner Sticklers vote for Paul stands out more to me. Besides trying to get a response from Paul, Inner Stickler mostly seconded other peoples questions and urged us to find scum because we're running out of time. Earlier he gave us three options 1) Lynch Pleonast 2) Lynch random 3) Lynch a lurker. He doesn't like option 1 and later says: I hate voting for lurkers or voting randomly. Hate it. I much prefer lynching Pleo over either of those positions. But Almost Human makes a good point. We should be scumhunting, so tally-ho! Hates options two and three, so lynching Pleonast now OK. And only now comes option four around: look for scum. Vote Inner SticklerAgain for now I think lynching Pleonast is better Tomorrow, if he doesn't die.
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Day One
May 2, 2009 10:22:32 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 2, 2009 10:22:32 GMT -5
Jeez what is this pile on sinjin day? I posted it because I thought it was important that we not insta-lynch Pleo after his goofy claim before everyone had time to make 5 posts.
I have not voted for Pleo because the consensus seems to be to let him live one more day. I personally think it's a mistake but it would be a wasted vote if no one else is going to vote him, wouldn't it?
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