|
Post by julie on Oct 9, 2009 14:40:35 GMT -5
Sister Coyote is a Witchdoctor and still alive. She's protecting one of the Witches, but is being blocked by the Cabal, so a killed Witch will stay dead. I thought an enchantment was unblockable? Fun game!
|
|
|
Post by CatInASuit on Oct 9, 2009 14:44:55 GMT -5
Only secret powers are unblockable.
Normal powers are blockable.
|
|
|
Post by julie on Oct 9, 2009 15:06:12 GMT -5
Hmm. The role description says: "Once activated, this enchantment cannot be blocked." But I guess I don't know exactly what "activated" means.
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 9, 2009 17:37:03 GMT -5
SisterCoyote was blocked, which means her enchantment of BillMc failed. If she hadn't been blocked that Night, blocking her (or Bill) later would not revoke the enchantment to raise Bill.
Her secret power which she used to resurrect herself could not be blocked.
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 9, 2009 17:38:14 GMT -5
Interesting that no one has mentioned the implication of the rules clarification I made at the end of Day Five. Scum have no reason to, but I expected some Townie to figure it out.
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 12, 2009 11:48:58 GMT -5
FlyingCow just asked me if Vampires and Wolves could target themselves. Obviously with the intent of offing themselves so that the Cabal would. Of course it is possible for players to target themselves, but Vampires can't actually kill themselves--their protection against Night kills prevents suicide. I wonder about the lack of participation. Does the Town think they're doomed? I don't think they are. The sides are now: T-W-U-C = 5-1-1-2. After ToDay's lynch: 5-1-0-2. Assuming Night kill gets Town: 4-1-0-2. That's basically like a basic Mafia game that's at 4 Town vs 3 Scum. It's lynch or lose but can end in the Town's favor.
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 15, 2009 8:06:47 GMT -5
Well, it had to happen eventually--I made a ruling mistake. As the players have discovered, the Vicar Idle Thoughts should not have been killed by the Vampire FlyingCow. Except the players' reasoning is slightly off--a blocked Vicar can be killed by a Vampire. We spoiled know that that did not happen, so the kill was a moderator error, but the players do not know that. Boo! Hiss! I stand firm in my claim: I did not kill Idle Thoughts! What's funny is that he was so adamant that a Vampire couldn't have killed him when I did. LOL. Oh well, there's no way I would have survived to the end with my Freemason claim anyway. I was hoping that there would be two dead Masons in the pool of 4 unknown dead when I claimed. That would have been perfect! --FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 15, 2009 9:07:19 GMT -5
Yep, your claim of not killing Idle was honest, although it was not true. Cookies has decided to kill MHaye. I'm not sure why, but the Cabal is going to be surprised.
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 15, 2009 9:10:54 GMT -5
Maybe he'll finally die this time?
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 15, 2009 10:46:55 GMT -5
He should. The Cabal is probably going to block Nanook again.
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 15, 2009 19:37:08 GMT -5
I stand firm in my claim: I did not kill Idle Thoughts! What's funny is that he was so adamant that a Vampire couldn't have killed him when I did. LOL. As I said, the only ones Pleo's mistake should create a "WTF?" moment for are Cabal. Because they know they didn't block Idle. Everything else is perfectly fine within the powers of the game and no other faction should be the wiser. Idle isn't thinking outside the box at all. The fact that it's pretty much mod-confirmed that a Vampire could kill a Vicar when blocked and he seems to still think that there is no way you're a Vampire even though you killed him confuddles me. Your "I didn't kill you." argument makes sense. After all, you had no clue you were redirected, and no one seems to have figured out that the Cabal have been redirecting folks yet.
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 15, 2009 21:19:46 GMT -5
That's great, except Idle wouldn't have been killed, and he wouldn't have claimed I killed him, and I would have lived a lot longer. So I'd have to say that it affected the Undead in a negative way.
But I have no hard feelings, I've made mistakes as a mod as well. I enjoyed playing this game more than any other, I think.
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 16, 2009 9:17:49 GMT -5
That's great, except Idle wouldn't have been killed, and he wouldn't have claimed I killed him, and I would have lived a lot longer. So I'd have to say that it affected the Undead in a negative way. True, you got screwed over the most by it. Although I think what's hurt the undead the most in the past two Conspiracy games is the vampires killing off their own Necromancers.
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 16, 2009 9:21:48 GMT -5
Yeah that certainly puts a damper on things.
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by CatInASuit on Oct 16, 2009 9:46:28 GMT -5
True, you got screwed over the most by it. Although I think what's hurt the undead the most in the past two Conspiracy games is the vampires killing off their own Necromancers. Never happened in the first game
|
|
|
Post by CatInASuit on Oct 16, 2009 9:49:12 GMT -5
So how do we think this game is going to end?
Will the town consider that all the Cabal are gone once MHaye flips or will they look for a fourth.
If they lynch Cookies next, then the Cabal win.
Or are the likely to try and knock the numbers down a little first before they reach that point. There are a couple of unconfirmed townies so it is possible they could winnow them down first.
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 16, 2009 10:47:47 GMT -5
I agree that FlyingCow was the one most personally screwed by my mistake. (Although it seems to have blown a gasket in Idle's head. ) I'm not sure how likely it changed the outcome of the game. A lone Freemason is likely to be lynched at some, being pretty much unconfirmable. And don't forget the Cabal has evidence that FlyingCow is a killer--they could've pushed to lynch him too. As for how this game is going to to turn out, I was thinking the Cabal is in the lead, with the Town coming close, so it could go either way depending on how good the Cabal is at manipulating lynches. But with Cookies cross-killing MHaye, the Town would be in the clear lead. But then Nanook just put in his order to kill MHaye. This changes everything. With two killers targeting him, whoever put in the order last is the one who actually does it. That's the one exception to the simultaneity rule. That means Nanook is the one who gets to kill and who is then blocked. So MHaye will survive another Night. Talk about luck!
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 16, 2009 10:50:20 GMT -5
Really? What happens to Cookies' kill?
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 16, 2009 11:11:29 GMT -5
It fails, since Nanook's kill gets priority in the simultaneity-breaker. Once that tie is broken, all other powers are resolved.
Normally, putting in an order first is an advantage, since it means someone else does the killing, which is risky due to the investigation and backlash effects. But in this case, it means the target gets away.
Hmm, now I'm rethinking it. Part of "simultaneous resolution of actions" means applying as many power effects as possible. Thus the chain of events on Night One. So that would mean the attack tie-breaker should be used only as a last resort.
I'll have to think more on this. Opinions are welcome.
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 16, 2009 14:16:57 GMT -5
I went with the "attack tie-breaker is the last resort" interpretation. Sorry, Cabal. Town is now in a good position, 5 vs 1 vs 1. They have to lynch NAF before Cookies, but they get one mislynch. Can they do it?
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 16, 2009 15:39:53 GMT -5
I think that was the best option. Nanook being blocked shouldn't affect Cookies' power. In essence, that give the Cabal a double-block.
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 16, 2009 22:33:48 GMT -5
Just seeing this now. I agree with the "cookies kills MHaye" ruling.
While last kill being the official killer is a good rule of thumb, FCOD is spot on with his observation. Unless you figured the chance for cabal multiple blocking into the balance, cabal blocking last kill should lead to the second-to-last kill going through (barring other intercepting powers).
Though, "the cabal block all kills if they block the last kill" thing might be something to consider using in the future, provided you make it an open rule and figure it into the balance. (I think the cabal were very well balanced this game. In fact, I think overall this game was much better balanced than C2. Wolves just got screwed by really bad luck, and Undead didn't fare much better due to luck.)
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 17, 2009 19:55:55 GMT -5
With 4 of the 5 Townies voting together, for someone who happens to be scum, this game is pretty much locked up. The only question is how many unknowns get lynched before they lynch Cookies.
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 17, 2009 21:44:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd say the town has this one in the bag.
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 19, 2009 14:51:09 GMT -5
Ha!
Nanook is (early) targeting HockeyGuy. If HockeyGuy repeats last Nights action toNight, Nanook will effectively suicide himself.
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 19, 2009 15:03:00 GMT -5
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 19, 2009 15:10:15 GMT -5
It says one power per side, it doesn't state anything specifically beyond that. That sounds to me like each faction has one member who has a special power. So four total, one person on each side. Sigh. What's the point of open rules of no one even reads them? This is an open rules set, except for one secret power given to each faction. This secret power may be held by one player, or shared among several. Right there in plain English. I just realized--Nanook should be aiming at Cookies from now on. That way, as soon as the cabalists are dead, we win. This is a really bad tactic. If the Cabal is still active, they could choose to not block Vig and thus end the game with a Cabal win. Of course, ped could be saying this to fake out the Cabal while the Vig decides to still target someone not Cookies. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I'm trying to decide if I can call the game early if the lynch for NAF goes through. Is there any scenario at all, however unlikely but assuming the players aren't completely stupid, in which Cookies could pull off a win?
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Oct 19, 2009 15:20:30 GMT -5
Living players after a NAF lynch: 02. Sister Coyote - Killed Night Four - Raised Day Six 04. Idle Thoughts - Killed Night Three - Raised Day Five 07. Cookies 10. Nanook 15. pedescribe 19. hockeyguy
Let's say the Town mislynches and Cookies kills off the most confirmed. At some point the Town will know it's at lynch Cookies or lose (at either 3 or 4 living players left). At that point they will lynch her, no matter what suspicions they have of others being not Town, since a definitely loss is worse than a risk of a loss. And then Town will win.
So I think it's fair to call the game in favor of the Town if they lynch NAF ToDay. They can only fail to win if they play egregiously stupidly. Am I missing anything?
|
|
|
Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 19, 2009 15:25:18 GMT -5
I concur and would call the game in that situation if I were you.
--FCOD
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Oct 19, 2009 19:03:25 GMT -5
My only recommendation is to clear it with Cookies first. I think she's pretty aware that her situation is hopeless at this point, but to be fair to her, she should be the one to ultimately make the decision.
How much you want to reveal to her about how hopeless her situation is is up to you. But as a mod, I'd always be wary about calling the game without remaining player consent.
|
|