Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
Posts: 691
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Gir! on Oct 25, 2007 18:14:18 GMT -5
Yeah, Hal hided.
Sorry, Cookies. You tried.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 25, 2007 18:16:13 GMT -5
Guess he hid. Looks like.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 25, 2007 20:16:58 GMT -5
Ah well...
What can you do?
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Post by mtgman on Oct 25, 2007 20:34:37 GMT -5
Ah well... What can you do? So the Vig popped you, why did scum kill me? And why can't I ever seem to win a freaking coinflip? Enjoy, Steven
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 25, 2007 21:02:24 GMT -5
Ah well... What can you do? So the Vig popped you, why did scum kill me? And why can't I ever seem to win a freaking coinflip? Enjoy, Steven I'm guessing that they need to go after the ostensible vanillas because right now, the scum's only hope is wtf. If they start picking off declared power roles, once they go through Dr. Tam and Inara, if they then proceed on to the vanillas at that point someone is going to wonder why Zoe is getting a free pass. Their best hope is to wipe out all the people who aren't crew of Serenity, and then hope that the remaining few can be convinced to kill Roosh or MadtheDotchan instead of wtf.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 25, 2007 21:27:25 GMT -5
Ok...seriously...Yes, I fucked up between the forums...but how about at least an acknowledgment that NAF's sig was invalid with respect to the end of Night 6? I count this as two of the three sources for the end of the day being incorrect, since the news ticker also says "See NAF's sig", and I stopped hanging out to religiously read the entire news ticker long ago. And Pygmy...I love your rugby-playing ass, but even if I had been on-time with my instructions and camped-out in the thread, we still had no way of knowing that you had independently missed your submission of the night kill instructions. The only reason I was rushing enough to make my slip was because I was trying to salvage an already messed up situation. I will shut up if just one person acknowledges that what what will be known for eons as "The Cookie Slip" was actually a group effort. I was playing my ass off in this game, I deserve at least that. *chin quivering*
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 25, 2007 21:39:22 GMT -5
I nailed panama as Jayne as soon as he bribed us instead of dying. But none of the other scum was as big of the fan of the show to see the obvious connection. ;D
I voiced suspicions of him possibly being the Vig as well, CK and I both, but they were just hunches, and I tended to be blown by the winds of my co-horts. As it was my first time as scum, I felt safest that way. We targeted mtg because we could smell that he was "something", but we weren't sure what.
I didn't push for my death instead of drain's because I got greedy, and thought that the town might possibly take a path that would keep both of us alive.
I'm still not clear on exactly how I was supposed to have picked up that Hal was River and when? I was more aware of the possibility that Hal's night visitor had been River.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 25, 2007 21:46:35 GMT -5
Ah HA!!! I see in the "Fun with names" forum that things were not so "obvious" and cut and dried between the mods and the designers as to whether Mingo/Fanty were more than just empty safe names. I'll take my crumbs of vindication where I can lick them off of the floor grout...
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 25, 2007 22:23:24 GMT -5
Don't make me start singing...
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 26, 2007 7:36:50 GMT -5
Ah HA!!! I see in the "Fun with names" forum that things were not so "obvious" and cut and dried 'twixt the mods and the designers as to whether Mingo/Fanty were more than just empty safe names. Yes, I noticed those posts too. It seems that things were not as clear as they could have been. However, it may now start to work in our favour: panama has just pointed out that Cookies took a bit of a risk in naming Fanty and Mingo - how could she be so sure that those names were not in use? He has suggested that perhaps they are the names of other scum - if there is a general name claim, I think anyone claiming Top Dog is going to come under deep suspicion...
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 26, 2007 8:29:50 GMT -5
I must say that actually naming someone Top Dog was a stroke of evil genius.
--FCOD
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 8:51:01 GMT -5
I must say that actually naming someone Top Dog was a stroke of evil genius. --FCOD Except I think it's going to play as pro-Crew, for some reason. If they do a mass name claim, I think they'll buy the Top Dog thing, under the "no scum, and especially not the last scum standing, would make up such a bizarre name" corollary.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 26, 2007 10:37:50 GMT -5
Ok, let's talk about the subjectivity of "slips".
Aside from my cross-posting gaff, nothing else I said in the game was any different than what I would've said had I been town in the same situation, or they were conscious efforts to manipulate and blow smoke.
I was, for all intents and purposes, "in town mode" when I made my "the scum investigator" post. I had not looked back at that are of my PM since the game started at that point, not to mention that my night power is laughable to even define as "investigative" in nature. Semantics perhaps, but since there's only so many times I can say that I would've said the same thing as a townie, and only so many times I can say that everything about my metagame frame of reference for the term "investigate" is true. I really do use the word or some form of it at least 20 times a day.
Everything else I said that is being perceived as a slip, are only being considered slips because the were either risky and over-confident in nature (FWIW I find that I'm much more aggressive as scum, while I'm kinda conservative as a player, YMMV) and/or were carefully weighed conscious manipulations trying to balance the collective web of deceit.
I think all of them only look like slips because of perfect knowledge. Anything attributed as a slip to me since my death, or within this forum, fall into the risky/carefully weighed conscious manipulations categories.
It is similar to M5. The only way I saw through Kyrie in the endgame, was by reading the thread under the assumption that he was scum, without having to weigh in any possibility that I was wrong. With as close to perfect knowledge as one can get without having it.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 26, 2007 12:08:09 GMT -5
Ah HA!!! I see in the "Fun with names" forum that things were not so "obvious" and cut and dried 'twixt the mods and the designers as to whether Mingo/Fanty were more than just empty safe names. I'll take my crumbs of vindication where I can lick them off of the floor grout... If you are talking about the posts I think you are...that was a miscommunication on these boards, not in design. We all meant the same thing, but said it in a way that made it sound like we were talking about something different. Oh, and I am really sorry about not changing my sig. REALLY sorry.
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 26, 2007 12:19:54 GMT -5
Regarding slips: I think the point of slips is that scum make them without thinking that they are making them, or even that they are slips at all. It's impossible to say how a person would phrase something differently if they were town or scum. It's easy to say that scum try to play as though they were town, but they are NOT town, so while not consciously doing things differently, slips may still happen. If the player doesn't realize that they are even slips, they can still happen. I think.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 12:43:26 GMT -5
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if Roosh and panamajack both survive until toMorrow and they happen to target different players toNight, Roosh can clinch the game by claiming in the Morning.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 26, 2007 13:11:10 GMT -5
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if Roosh and panamajack both survive until toMorrow and they happen to target different players toNight, Roosh can clinch the game by claiming in the Morning. 3 questions: Why do you think this will give the town the game? Not that you are wrong (you probably aren't) but I am curious to see what your thought process is. Do you think the town will lynch Roosh if he claims? (because I do) Do you think it will matter if they lynch him straight away?
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 26, 2007 13:35:22 GMT -5
If Roosh carefully lies in his claim he can pull off not getting lynched. If he is honest, he will likely get lynched.
If I were Roosh, I'd explain that I knew all along that I was the backup Cop and that's why, when I had to claim I made up a false power. Obviously I wouldn't want to reveal to scum my true power, and even if I did, I wouldn't be able to prove it until the primary Cop died. Hence the false powerclaim. (and by I, I mean Roosh).
I think revealing that he lied about his power for no good reason would be a very good reason to lynch Roosh. He needs to lie to cover up his first lie.
I have a feeling if Roosh did claim, he'd tell the truth though and get himself lynched.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 13:36:40 GMT -5
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if Roosh and panamajack both survive until toMorrow and they happen to target different players toNight, Roosh can clinch the game by claiming in the Morning. 3 questions: Why do you think this will give the town the game? Not that you are wrong (you probably aren't) but I am curious to see what your thought process is. Do you think the town will lynch Roosh if he claims? (because I do) Do you think it will matter if they lynch him straight away? I did a long-ish analysis, but I did it by hand on a sheet of paper and I'm not sure I can type it out easily. Essentially, if Roosh and panamajack both survive the Night and do not overlap, they will have reduced the pool of unknowns by two more (one unknown will be dead by Vig, and one will have been investigated - unless Roosh or panama nail wtf, of course, in which case it's all academic). What Roosh should do then is claim, and announce his results on hockeymonkey, panama, and whoever he clears toNight. He should then specifically and directly asked to be lynched, and the town should oblige him, thus confirming his results and establishing the three players he's investigated, plus dot and Idle, as confirmed townies. Make a list of the remaining players and work through it. That Night, the scum eliminate a known but panama cuts out another unknown. In the worst case scenario from a town standpoint, the scum get panama. The following morning, the town lynches an unknown. Rinse and repeat. The unknowns will all be dead, no matter how the scum play it, before wtf wins. This happens even more quickly the longer it takes the scum to kill panama. The whole thing hinges on Roosh declaring, and then intentionally getting lynched to confirm his investigations. That would provide guidance sufficient to panama and the Crew to clinch the game numerically, I think.
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 26, 2007 13:38:08 GMT -5
When she found River, River died. NAF, I think this section of your post is why Hockey Monkey is more confused. Your statement implies that Cookies found River and River died. There is no dead River. What you meant to say is "If she found River, River would die."
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 13:38:54 GMT -5
If Roosh carefully lies in his claim he can pull off not getting lynched. If he is honest, he will likely get lynched. If I were Roosh, I'd explain that I knew all along that I was the backup Cop and that's why, when I had to claim I made up a false power. Obviously I wouldn't want to reveal to scum my true power, and even if I did, I wouldn't be able to prove it until the primary Cop died. Hence the false powerclaim. (and by I, I mean Roosh). I think revealing that he lied about his power for no good reason would be a very good reason to lynch Roosh. He needs to lie to cover up his first lie. I have a feeling if Roosh did claim, he'd tell the truth though and get himself lynched. That's just it - if Roosh has three Crew members under his belt, getting lynched is the best thing that could happen to him. Those three Crew would be confirmed, and along with the two confirmed now, plus a semi-confirmed dnooman, and really even Hal (NAF's revelation about Cookies' role would appear to more or less confirm that Hal is not Alliance), would be enough.
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 26, 2007 13:47:30 GMT -5
I didn't realize town has the potential for enough Confirmed Town to win the game. Yeah, Roosh should claim and volunteer for lynching then -- specially since they know they've got the Godfather already.
There's 12 people left and they have enough data for confirms to out number unconfirmed already? Oh, they need one more Night. Got it. Makes sense to me.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 26, 2007 15:02:26 GMT -5
So if the scum Kill Roosh tonight...how does that effect things? Out of curiosity. Is it even likly that the scum will target Roosh at all given his false claim? What if they take out panama?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 15:22:53 GMT -5
So if the scum Kill Roosh tonight...how does that effect things? Out of curiosity. Is it even likly that the scum will target Roosh at all given his false claim? What if they take out panama? If wtf kills Roosh tonight - or really at any time before Roosh presents his info - then I think the game opens back up. If panama dies toNight, but Roosh still does as I said, I think it leaves a sliver of hope for the scum, but only a sliver. The thing that would really blow things open, though, is if the scum kill panama AND panama happens to take a shot at Roosh. Unlikely, but the fan would be shit-covered at that point.
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 26, 2007 15:37:50 GMT -5
While all the discussion about another SK is off the mark. WTF is essentially an SK now.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 26, 2007 16:56:31 GMT -5
Ah HA!!! I see in the "Fun with names" forum that things were not so "obvious" and cut and dried 'twixt the mods and the designers as to whether Mingo/Fanty were more than just empty safe names. I'll take my crumbs of vindication where I can lick them off of the floor grout... If you are talking about the posts I think you are...that was a miscommunication on these boards, not in design. We all meant the same thing, but said it in a way that made it sound like we were talking about something different. Oh, and I am really sorry about not changing my sig. REALLY sorry. Well, we'll see if anyone but CK and I really care to weigh in on the Mingo/Fanty thing. I'm starting to think it is one of those "you had to be there" situations. Do scummies get journal summaries? Are we supposed to compile them ourselves? I wasn't trying to make you apologize, but it does earn you my Pepsi.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 26, 2007 17:58:09 GMT -5
If you are talking about the posts I think you are...that was a miscommunication on these boards, not in design. We all meant the same thing, but said it in a way that made it sound like we were talking about something different. Oh, and I am really sorry about not changing my sig. REALLY sorry. Well, we'll see if anyone but CK and I really care to weigh in on the Mingo/Fanty thing. I'm starting to think it is one of those "you had to be there" situations. Do scummies get journal summaries? Are we supposed to compile them ourselves? I wasn't trying to make you apologize, but it does earn you my Pepsi. FINALLY! I have been jones'n for that thing for like a WEEK! Your journal entry is the scum boards. If your scummy folks ever PM'd anything longer the a sentence I would have posted those, but none of you ever did.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 18:05:30 GMT -5
Well, shit, Idle's out there making an awfully interesting point, and now that it's out I'm going to say that I'll be really, really surprised if wtf can pull this off. Even if the town doesn't warm to that point and whack wtf, all Idle really has to do is convince either Roosh or panama and that's all she wrote.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 26, 2007 18:11:17 GMT -5
Well, shit, Idle's out there making an awfully interesting point, and now that it's out I'm going to say that I'll be really, really surprised if wtf can pull this off. Even if the town doesn't warm to that point and whack wtf, all Idle really has to do is convince either Roosh or panama and that's all she wrote. It's a good point, and it is also a lie, there is no other 50% doc. Interesting gambit on the part of Mr. Thoughts.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 26, 2007 18:21:18 GMT -5
Well, shit, Idle's out there making an awfully interesting point, and now that it's out I'm going to say that I'll be really, really surprised if wtf can pull this off. Even if the town doesn't warm to that point and whack wtf, all Idle really has to do is convince either Roosh or panama and that's all she wrote. It's a good point, and it is also a lie, there is no other 50% doc. Interesting gambit on the part of Mr. Thoughts. Oh, geez, I didn't even realize that. I guess he can play with fire now, since he's basically lynch-proof.
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