|
Post by MentalGuy on Apr 6, 2011 23:06:04 GMT -5
Mental wrote: Okay, if anyone else is really Daphne, you probably need to counterclaim Ed. I still don't understand what the urgency of a Daphne claim would have been at that point. (I do agree Ed's claim is probably honest, and never stated otherwise.) I don't know that it was urgent, but if someone else was Daphne, then Ed was almost certainly scum. I would gladly give up someone outing themselves as Daphne in exchange for catching scum. That would be Suburban, Joanie, Renata and Pinkies, right? Or just the ones post claim? I was thinking of the ones post claim. I am not really seeing Suburban as scummy since I doubt scum would still be pushing the "There is no Daphne" theory. I feel if Joanie were scum, she would likely have at least mentioned my case against Ed when she voted. That leaves Renata and Pinkies. Of the two I think Pinkies is more likely scum than Renata, but would not object to either one of them being lynched. I personally would vote for FCOD, Lightfoot, septimus, and Sister Coyote over either of them, though. I went back and reviewed the posts of gnarlycharlie, Inner Stickler, Greedy Smurf, scuzzlebutt, romanic, and Guiri. The first 4 because I didn't really remember much from them. Of them, I can't say that I saw any particular thing they said as scummy, but there wasn't a whole lot contributed by them and I get the feeling there is a scum hiding in that group somewhere. I also am getting a scum vibe from Romanic since he seems insistent on discussing Scooby Snacks rather than the other players along with his inability to find anyone scummy. Of course, the first part might be because Scooby Snacks have some importance to him. I reviewed guiri because I just wanted to see if I might have missed something, but I am getting a strong town sense from guiri.
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Apr 7, 2011 2:14:53 GMT -5
Mr. Stickler is my father. If the username is too much, I prefer IS or sticks, although it's just the mr. I object to.
Vote: lightfoot I still don't like the "I'm just so conceeeeeerned" tone I get from his posts when she talks about other players. Everyone says I've posted very little game related stuff and well, that's true. (I maintain however, that I am posting what is a relatively normal amount of game related stuff for me. There's also the insipid game that is a) getting more of my attention and b) getting more of the game related posts for now. (probably because there's more to chew on in that game currently)) However, I don't see very much real game commentary from lightfoot either. Wagging your finger at lurkers is not really a game post either.
While I have nothing against scooby snacks, I have no idea what to do with them. I appreciate all the thoughtfulness in being given snacks but they're not doing anything for me. (Believe you me, it's killing me not to know.)
And Mentalguy, guiri always smells town. It's almost unnatural how townie he can be.
|
|
|
Post by Greedy Smurf on Apr 7, 2011 3:58:23 GMT -5
Right. work day is over and I'm the only one still at the office, and my wife thinks I'm doing someting work related , so I've got some time for a read through. ;D Is it just me or have games on here gotten even more analytical? A few thoughts/questions from me. I'm not sure on Lightfoot, presuming the scum can talk offboard surely an older hand would be giving out some advice. Unless they are going for a martyr play (either intentionally or otherwise) and want to get some townie cred by lynching her? Longshot I know but far from unheard off. Personally, and this is pure gut feeling from me I'm getting more of a newish town player from Lightfoot than an inexperienced scum player vibe. Question for Suburban Plankton, when you say you don't believe Special Ed's story, what don't you believe exactly, his name claim? or the details of Daphne role (ie being kidnapped), or the fact there is a Daphne in the game at all? If you mean his claim as a whole, apologies if I'm outing an attempt by you to go softly softly about it, but if you have info or a role that can dispute his storey, I think it would be worth hearing about it. And yes before anyone jumps on me for fishing I realise this could be viewed as such, But I'd just like Plankton to say either - I have a gut feeling it's not true, or, based on knowledge I have I know it's not true. No need for, and I'm not asking for, a claim from Plankton. I didn't have much of a read on Septimus, but his vote on Lightfoot really stood out. It seemed based on the most innocous and flimsy reason. the 'time zone' comment. Maybe this never twigged to me, because I know I at least made a passing comment about my timezone. I seem to recall some suggestion or finger pointing on Day 1 at lightfoot for the comment, I can't remember the result (if any) of the attention but it seems a bit weird to me to suddenly come back to it on Day 2 as the basis of a vote. I personally believe Ed's name claim, not trying to convince anyone, just stating that's my opinion. I'm mentioning that because I want to comment on something Ed said without giving an appearence of trying to smudge him. You said if you were scum why no Daphne counterclaim?. I didn't want that to pass in case it comes up again during the course of the game - there are a hundred reasons why an actual name/role may not counterclaim someone fake claming their name/role and especially not on Day 1. I've seen once or twice some big examples of this, where the 'real' role went about trying to orchestrate a lynch rather than counter claim. Septimus I think is trying his heart out to use and or share some information he has without revealing details. But I'm not sure if that is power role info or scum info. I think you have been obvious enough about it (I of all people picked up on it) that if you are town the scum knows you are some sort of power role, so if you know something that you consider it vital town knows, I would be out with it. If you were using a little bit of scum knowledge to try and draw out some town power roles, well Hmm. I'm pretty sure you've got a lot of games under your belt right Septimus? (correct me if I'm wrong) This is big metagame comment, but Storyteller had a real helpful and really insightful post early in the day. I know Storey is one hell of a good mafia player, and I always think back to one of the games where he was the mostly helpful insightful poster in the whole game............and was scum. Sorry Storey, not trying to suggest that is the case here, and please no one take it as a smudge, it is just more of a personal comment about the mental gymanstics going on in my head right now, and interesting things your mind leaps to when you get paranoid and have little to no info. ;D That's it for analysis from this post. I didn't analyse everyone, because this is just the fruits of a read through Day 2, and jotting down a couple of things that jumped out at me. I'm not sure I will be around for the run in to the lynching, and don't want to have my name tagged to two no votes in as many days. So, at this point in time, I don't feel bad in placing a vote on VOTE SEPTIMUS
|
|
|
Post by julie on Apr 7, 2011 8:22:35 GMT -5
I have put out a call for subs and haven't gotten any bites. If anyone knows anyone, please holler.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 7, 2011 9:53:49 GMT -5
Question for Suburban Plankton, when you say you don't believe Special Ed's story, what don't you believe exactly, his name claim? or the details of Daphne role (ie being kidnapped), or the fact there is a Daphne in the game at all? If you mean his claim as a whole, apologies if I'm outing an attempt by you to go softly softly about it, but if you have info or a role that can dispute his storey, I think it would be worth hearing about it. And yes before anyone jumps on me for fishing I realise this could be viewed as such, But I'd just like Plankton to say either - I have a gut feeling it's not true, or, based on knowledge I have I know it's not true. No need for, and I'm not asking for, a claim from Plankton. I've stated my case before, but I'll highlight it here again. I've said that I didn't believe that 'Daphne' was a player in the game. If there is no 'Daphne', then Ed must be lying about his role. That's all that I am prepared to say on the subject at this time. When and if I have additional information that I feel the Town needs to know, I will share it.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 7, 2011 10:13:40 GMT -5
I've stated my case before, but I'll highlight it here again. I've said that I didn't believe that 'Daphne' was a player in the game. If there is no 'Daphne', then Ed must be lying about his role. That's not a case. That's an assertion, unsupported by anything and exceedingly unlikely given the things we know so far. Declining to say anything further about it is singularly unhelpful, because if you're Town and IF you have a real reason to believe that there is no Daphne, it would be hugely valuable to Town right now if you shared it. And if you don't have a reason - if it's just confirmation bias - then you probably should admit that much. To quote a great player: Gah.
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Apr 7, 2011 10:17:52 GMT -5
Vote count please
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 7, 2011 10:28:09 GMT -5
I have it at:
LightFoot: 5 (Special Ed 66, FlyingCowOfDoom 156, septimus 178, Joanie 200, Inner Stickler 211)
FCoD: 3 (LightFoot 99, Sister Coyote 122, MentalGuy 137)
Septimus: 3 (Renata 179, Guiri 182, Greedy Smurf 212)
Renata: 1 (storyteller 110)
Inner Stickler: 1 (Romanic 118)
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Apr 7, 2011 10:40:40 GMT -5
It pains me to see it, but TYVM
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 7, 2011 10:59:09 GMT -5
I've stated my case before, but I'll highlight it here again. I've said that I didn't believe that 'Daphne' was a player in the game. If there is no 'Daphne', then Ed must be lying about his role. That's not a case. That's an assertion, unsupported by anything and exceedingly unlikely given the things we know so far. Declining to say anything further about it is singularly unhelpful, because if you're Town and IF you have a real reason to believe that there is no Daphne, it would be hugely valuable to Town right now if you shared it. And if you don't have a reason - if it's just confirmation bias - then you probably should admit that much. To quote a great player: Gah.Thanks for the correction on my verbiage; you're correct in that it's an 'assertion' rather than a 'case'. I knew I was looking for a different word but I couldn't figure out what it was. As for the rest of your statement, I'll grant that my assertion is "unsupported", but I question that it is "exceedingly unlikely given the things we know so far". What do we know at this point? We know that Archangel was a Vigilante, Bill was an 'Advisor', and that Paranoia was a Mason, from which we can infer that there is at least one more Mason. That's all we know. And nothing there is related to Ed's claim in any way. Let's add in the rest of the claims that have been made so far (besides Ed's). Scuzzlebutt and Captain Pinkies have made name claims, and MentalGuy has claimed that he can rescue Daphne. I can't see how either of the name claims support Ed's own claim, and I've explained before why I think MentalGuy's claim is equally valid whether or not 'Daphne' is a player. So how do "the things we know so far" make my assertion "exceedingly unlikely"? Yes, my assertion relies on the fact that the Scum know that Daphne is not a player (or that they suspected as much and were willing to take a chance). Occam's Razor suggests that I am wrong, but I haven't seen any actual evidence so far to dissuade me. Similarly, I haven't seen any actual evidence that would provide enough support to my assertion to convince the rest of the Town, which is why I haven't been pressing my case. As additional information becomes available, my suspicions may be confirmed, or they may be refuted. If either of those things happen, it would be in the Town's best interest to know (because it would help to confirm Ed as either Town or Scum), so I'll be certain to share. But for the moment, I have nothing valuable to share. I voted for Ed before his claim yesterday. I didn't believe his claim when he made it, and I found his play after that to be anti-Town. Nothing I have seen today has changed my opinion of him. But I do recognize that I am in a very small minority, so I am not pushing for his lynch at this time. If the time comes when I have enough evidence that I think I can 'prove' his guilt, then I'll make that case. If new evidence makes me change my stance, I'll make that known as well.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 7, 2011 11:07:19 GMT -5
As I understand it, the case against LightFoot is that she seems to be pushing the "I am Town" way too hard, and that her posts tend to border on incomprehensible. Is that basically it?
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 7, 2011 11:15:23 GMT -5
Septimus I think is trying his heart out to use and or share some information he has without revealing details. This theory would help to explain some of his posts, but even after going back over all of them, I'm not sure what he might be trying to say. I would, however, think that 'breadcrumbing' would be more likely to be a Town-tell, since by it's very nature its intent is to draw attention to the player, which is something that Scum generally try to avoid.
|
|
|
Post by special on Apr 7, 2011 11:15:56 GMT -5
As I understand it, the case against LightFoot is that she seems to be pushing the "I am Town" way too hard, and that her posts tend to border on incomprehensible. Is that basically it? That's quite a mischaracterization. I think while Lightfoot's difficulty in being understood has frustrated some people, I don't recall anyone using it as a basis for voting. And, while it's true that I have mentioned the "I am Town" stuff in my explanation (Post 142, if your interested in actually reading) and others have as well, that's probably only a very minor detail in the case. My case is based on the "thinking Archangel was Town" as a reason for voting for FCOD without ever mentioning it coupled with the gloating and other newbie Scum tells.
|
|
|
Post by guiri on Apr 7, 2011 11:24:42 GMT -5
As I understand it, the case against LightFoot is that she seems to be pushing the "I am Town" way too hard, and that her posts tend to border on incomprehensible. Is that basically it? That's quite a mischaracterization. Joanie voted her for her "I'm Town". FCoD voted her for being incomprehensible, gloating and for inconsistent reasoning when voting him. Septimus voted as a prod to get a response. Inner voted for her tone and for not contributing much. Just FCoD as part of his vote. But she did although she hasn't explained herself very well. I think it was 453, a response to my questioning her vote on Inner.
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Apr 7, 2011 11:24:42 GMT -5
As I understand it, the case against LightFoot is that she seems to be pushing the "I am Town" way too hard, and that her posts tend to border on incomprehensible. Is that basically it? That's quite a mischaracterization. I think while Lightfoot's difficulty in being understood has frustrated some people, I don't recall anyone using it as a basis for voting. And, while it's true that I have mentioned the "I am Town" stuff in my explanation (Post 142, if your interested in actually reading) and others have as well, that's probably only a very minor detail in the case. My case is based on the "thinking Archangel was Town" as a reason for voting for FCOD without ever mentioning it coupled with the gloating and other newbie Scum tells. I have done some research here in previous games and I am seeing it stated many times that it is COMMON for the first player voted off to be TOWN because it is just too easy for SCUM to control. (IE TOWN doesn't have a clue). The fact that Ed keeps chewing on that comment of mine is beginning to get old. I'm not going to go get the quote again but I did say I thought some of the votes on archangel were SCUM. I have addressed your "gloating" comment too.
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Apr 7, 2011 11:35:01 GMT -5
Something else for you to chew on. If the votes stay the way they are it will not benefit TOWN. I am a scotsman. I will not die this day.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 7, 2011 12:00:25 GMT -5
Ed and guiri, thanks for the explanations regarding LightFoot. I think I need to do a closer reread, but at this point, I'm still not getting a Scummy vibe from her. But I am getting a Scummy vibe from FCOD. Day 1 Post 220 I do not like this Ed/Daphne business one bit. No siree. It stinks to me. It seems like something Ed would pull as a major distraction. I'd love to just lynch him and be done with it but I'm nervous that he's some type of bomb. I'll need to consider it more. His next post was a fluff post, and his next one after that was Post 349 After considering it, I'm feeling like Ed is probably not scum. I can't figure out what motivation he'd have to pull this debacle if he was scum. I also agree with storyteller that it seems likely that at least one of the Ed voters is scum. Of the Ed voters, I suppose archangel is the most likely suspect. The main thing that caught my eye was her vote for Ed that was motivated basically because Ed voted for himself. It's pretty weak, but that seems to me that it could be a convenient way for scum to hide in a bandwagon. I'm not really seeing much else in the way of scummy behavior today but I feel that it's important to get a vote on record, so Vote: archangel When FCOD made Post 220, Ed had 4 votes on him, including his own, and seemed to be cruising toward a self-imposed lynch. By the time Post 349 rolled around, the tide had shifted and archangel was leading with 3 votes. And Day 2 Post 84 It's not just you Ed, I can't understand what the heck LightFoot is talking about either. She's like the female peeker, with manners. It's frustrating but I don't find it necessarily scummy. His next post was a response to a post by LightFoot, where Lightfoot votes for FCOD, basically saying "I can't undestand what you're saying, or even who you're talking to", and his next post after that was Post 156 Right now I'm getting a really scummy vibe from LightFoot. Here's why. I realize this will echo some of what Ed is saying, but I haven't been available to post significantly before now. 1) More "gloating" than anyone else. 2) Her inconsistent reasons for voting for me: "The pattern of votes on archangel to me seemed an indication that she was most likely town." What? What does that even mean? I think she is trying to gain trust by claiming "Oh yeah I knew archangel was Town all along." 3) I can't understand most of what she's trying to say. While not necessarily a scumtell (see peeker in many games), it is bad for the town to have a player that is incomprehensible. Vote: LightFoot When he made Post 84, LightFoot and FCOD both had a single vote, and he didn't seem to find LightFoot terribly Scummy at all. Later, when FCOD had 4 votes against him he went into full-on self preservation mode, rehashed Ed's arguments, and placed a vote on the most likely target that might save him. Aside from the posts I've quoted so far, the only real contribution he has made to the game was an exhortation to take a closer look at all of the people who haven't posted anything ( Day 2 Post 24) vote FCODOn preview, I see that LightFoot has claimed Scotsman. I'm leaving my vote on FCOD for the moment, while I consider that claim along with a reread of the rest of her posts.
|
|
|
Post by septimus on Apr 7, 2011 12:01:07 GMT -5
OK, I won't waste a bullet on a Scotsman. Unvote: LightFoot (I think FCOD is once again my top Lynch choice, but the case seems weak, so I'll wait for now.)
I will aso claim.
I am Town. I have a Special Power. The power is quite weak -- Scum would be wasting their NK to take me out -- but it may be possible to demonstrate the power, should players need to confirm me as Town.
(In principle, demonstrating the power wouldn't confirm that I'm Town; however the power is such that it seems unlikely for Scum.)
I won't describe the power (or the experiment that would prove it) in this post. (However, having said this much, I know players may insist that I reveal it in a follow-up. The demonstration will require at least one appointed witness. If we accidentally end up with a scum-side Witness who says the demonstration failed, you'll know he's scum when I flip town.)
Except to confirm me as Town, revealing the role will do no good that I can see, but will help Scum (by letting them know my power is too weak to waste a NK on). Still, revealing my role will be better than a mis-Lynch so I'll make this partial claim now.
It's possible the following comment will convince some Townies that I'm a fellow Townie without further ado:
Last Night, I really did dream of Special Ed. In the dream I was advised to help him. I assume that advisor was BillMc (AKA Templeton the butler, AKA Town Adviser), who has since been driven away from the gazebo ... thus I am afraid toNight will be dreamless. I'll guess other Townies were also advised last Night, perhaps also to help Special Ed.
|
|
|
Post by julie on Apr 7, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Vote Count:
*LightFoot: 4 (Special Ed 66, FlyingCowOfDoom 156, Joanie 200, Inner Stickler 211)
FCOD: 4 (LightFoot 99, Sister Coyote 122, MentalGuy 137, Suburban Plankton 226)
septimus: 3 (Renata 179, guiri 182, Greedy Smurf 212)
Renata: 1 (storyteller 110)
Inner Stickler: 1 (romanic 118)
*Current lynch leader
Snack Transfers:
Special Ed: +1 (Sister Coyote 10)
Mahaloth: +1 (Special Ed 39)
MentalGuy: +1 (Special Ed 39)
septimus: +1 (Special Ed 39)
Captain Pinkies: +1 (Special Ed 39)
Suburban Plankton: +1 (Special Ed 39)
Inner Stickler: +1 (Special Ed 39) storyteller: +1 (Special Ed 39)
Special Ed: +1 (septimus 77)
MentalGuy: +1 (septimus 77)
Inner Stickler: +1 (septimus 77)
Corrections always welcome.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 7, 2011 12:40:57 GMT -5
OK, I won't waste a bullet on a Scotsman. Unvote: LightFootSo I assume from this unvote that you have immediately and unhesitatingly accepted LightFoot's claim, in spite of your previous (ostensible) suspicion of her as Scum. Your wording here is very direct in assuming the certain truth of this claim: "I won't waste a bullet on a Scotsman." I find that... curious.
|
|
|
Post by special on Apr 7, 2011 12:41:39 GMT -5
But she did although she hasn't explained herself very well. I think it was 453, a response to my questioning her vote on Inner. That was a very circular argument she made at that point. She thought FCOD was Scum because she thought Archangel was Town. She was voting for FCOD because if Archangel was Town, there were likely Scum voting for her. If anything, that's a little more damning.
|
|
|
Post by special on Apr 7, 2011 12:44:05 GMT -5
That's quite a mischaracterization. I think while Lightfoot's difficulty in being understood has frustrated some people, I don't recall anyone using it as a basis for voting. And, while it's true that I have mentioned the "I am Town" stuff in my explanation (Post 142, if your interested in actually reading) and others have as well, that's probably only a very minor detail in the case. My case is based on the "thinking Archangel was Town" as a reason for voting for FCOD without ever mentioning it coupled with the gloating and other newbie Scum tells. I have done some research here in previous games and I am seeing it stated many times that it is COMMON for the first player voted off to be TOWN because it is just too easy for SCUM to control. (IE TOWN doesn't have a clue). The fact that Ed keeps chewing on that comment of mine is beginning to get old. I'm not going to go get the quote again but I did say I thought some of the votes on archangel were SCUM. I have addressed your "gloating" comment too. I'm happy that you've addressed the issue. Truly I am. Addressing them doesn't mean that they go away, however. I'll agree that there is a likelihood that Town are lynched on Day 1. But then, let me ask you this. If you had successfully swung the lynch lead from Archangel to FCOD, as your vote indicates you wanted to do, would have have made it liekly that FCOD was Town?
|
|
|
Post by special on Apr 7, 2011 12:47:44 GMT -5
balh blah blah. It's right up there, read it I feel odd. I actually find myself agreeing with Suburban
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 7, 2011 12:51:29 GMT -5
She thought FCOD was Scum because she thought Archangel was Town. She was voting for FCOD because if Archangel was Town, there were likely Scum voting for her. If anything, that's a little more damning. I don't see what's wrong with that reasoning. It's not inevitable that when a Townie is lynched, there's Scum on the wagon... but it's certainly not a terrible bet. There were four voters for archangel at the end of the Day. BillMc was certain Town. I feel strongly that Ed probably is. MentalGuy's power reveal suggests that he may be, too. Who does that leave? You know what, overall? unvote Renatavote FCoDMore to come presently.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 7, 2011 13:04:01 GMT -5
I feel odd. I actually find myself agreeing with Suburban Oh, I think I'm tearing up a little bit... I am intrigued by septimus' claim. If it's genuine, it would strongly support Ed's own claim. I suppose it's possible that there is a Scum power capable of sending him the message to "help Ed", but that seems like a lot of trouble for Scum to go to just to bolster Ed's claim, considering that most everybody seemed to believe him in the first place. Similarly, it seems quite risky for a Scum septimus to make this claim, which does nothing but support Ed, can't be confirmed until septimus dies.
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Apr 7, 2011 13:48:59 GMT -5
Question for all about 'gloating' . I re-reread the comments D2 before the subject of gloating was brought up. Everyone that mentioned the players lost was accused of gloating. It seemed to me that those comments were an acknowledgement of the loss and surprise that there were 2 gone. Are players supposed to not say anything when they find out who has been NKilled?
I think I see part of your point now, that it could be a 'tell'. How better to hide your SCUM-ness than to faint dead away at the death of a TOWN. I did not faint btw.
|
|
|
Post by julie on Apr 7, 2011 13:59:45 GMT -5
BobArrgh has graciously agreed to replace Mahaloth. Thanks for stepping in, BobArrgh, and thanks for playing, Mahaloth.
Another sub would still be useful since I haven't yet heard from Peeker.
|
|
|
Post by special on Apr 7, 2011 14:22:37 GMT -5
isn't jsut being Bobarrgh a Scum-tell?
|
|
|
Post by special on Apr 7, 2011 14:27:11 GMT -5
I think I see part of your point now, that it could be a 'tell'. How better to hide your SCUM-ness than to faint dead away at the death of a TOWN. I did not faint btw. Yes, and that is a large part of the case against you. You're trying to act Townie and talk about being Town. Scum do that. They do it a lot. Town will claim Town, but don't usually have to worry about acting like Town. Of course, the gloating has a little bit more to it. See, sometimes Scum can't help but feel really good when 2 Town die in one Night. I mean, it's really good for them. So they want to say something. And they just feel like talking about how bad it is for Town is rubbing it in while looking Townie. Of course, a newer Scum is more likely to fall into the trap as experienced players have learned that commenting on the carnage isn't helpful at all. 1~~~~~~~~ 1 There are exceptions, for example when a player thinks we're getting to a good point for a mass claim or some drastic action due to the circumstances, but that's very unlikely to happen on Day 2.
|
|
|
Post by LightFoot on Apr 7, 2011 14:56:21 GMT -5
I think I see part of your point now, that it could be a 'tell'. How better to hide your SCUM-ness than to faint dead away at the death of a TOWN. I did not faint btw. Yes, and that is a large part of the case against you. I see In my previous game claiming TOWN was the killer, players that acted TOWN were more trusted. So TOWN has to act like not SCUM or [sarcasm] post recipes /gardening tips/question players acting SCUMmy [/sarcasm]. SCUM know that too and I’ve learned that they have more help with game play.. so it is really a craps shoot. Thou shalt not gloat (or appear to) looks like a sig line
|
|