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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 21, 2011 7:19:05 GMT -5
For trying to tell Town power roles what to do (with the end result being that if they follow his rules, Scum might be able to find them easier due to their overly-cautious playstyle), and for changing the discussion to irrelevant policy, which tells us next to nothing about anyone. Speak for yourself. I've already learned quite a bit about the players from the slip discussion. More than I think I would have learned from: Maybe the collars explode for a lynch or a NK. Hey, maybe they do! Or maybe there's a different mechanism. *crickets*
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Post by sinjin on Nov 21, 2011 8:39:47 GMT -5
Ok, you want me to spell it out for you: When I read the pre-game write-up I assumed the "gadgets" thing was merely color. I was therefore quite surprised when several people, you included btw, mentioned "gadgets" as if they most definitely existed. I guess I'm just stupid. I did not take the mentions/speculations about gadgets/powers as scum slips because all of the powers discussed seemed pro-town to me.
I was referring to the blue-red-blue discussion between story and sacher.
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Post by Drain Bead on Nov 21, 2011 8:47:38 GMT -5
For trying to tell Town power roles what to do (with the end result being that if they follow his rules, Scum might be able to find them easier due to their overly-cautious playstyle), and for changing the discussion to irrelevant policy, which tells us next to nothing about anyone. Speak for yourself. I've already learned quite a bit about the players from the slip discussion. More than I think I would have learned from: Maybe the collars explode for a lynch or a NK. Hey, maybe they do! Or maybe there's a different mechanism. *crickets* What did you learn, other than what people think about something that may or may not actually happen in this game, and even if it does happen, should be evaluated on its own merits rather than theoretical ones?
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Post by guiri on Nov 21, 2011 12:24:43 GMT -5
Ok, you want me to spell it out for you: When I read the pre-game write-up I assumed the "gadgets" thing was merely color. I was therefore quite surprised when several people, you included btw, mentioned "gadgets" as if they most definitely existed. I referred to the color and called it "idle speculation"... I guess I'm just stupid. I did not take the mentions/speculations about gadgets/powers as scum slips because all of the powers discussed seemed pro-town to me. If everyone is linked to an unknown player of unknown alignment, you don't think scum would benefit from identifying who they are connected to or being able to interfere with that connection? I was referring to the blue-red-blue discussion between story and sacher. OK, my bad.
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Post by moodymitchy on Nov 21, 2011 12:49:24 GMT -5
Vote Mr Special Ed
It's his suggestion and as it's Day 1 and I don't have much else to go on... I'd just like to see his reaction.
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Post by sachertorte on Nov 21, 2011 12:59:12 GMT -5
I can see where the ability to sever a connection could work .......somehow we have a confirmed Town, the severer severs and that player would no longer die with their counterpart? I think Inner stickler's point is that someone (Pollux Oil) stated that switching would be unbalancing or swingy or something like that, and Inner's point is that severing is also unbalancing or swingy or something like that. I agree with Inner Stickler. Severing connections is extremely powerful. If a Red-Red connection gets severed that is basically an anti-lynch. Scum could not possibly have this power. Town conceivably could, but as stated earlier, it is an extremely swingy power. Every time I have played a game where there is some mechanical device it is always discussed in Day 1, there is nothing abnormal about discussing what the possibilities are with such devices. Now having said that, one has to keep in mind that everything is all speculation, unless you know what happens... For those of us that don't, the only real way to know is to go through one cycle to see. Even more directly, in every game I have played *I've* been involved in discussing the game mechanics on Day One. Frankly, I expect that to always be the case because I find such discussions fun. I find game mechanics interesting and worth discussing on their own merit. While this may not fall into the strict definition of "scum hunting," I don't care. I play to have fun. For me, I see little point in discussing possibilities when we have no way of knowing which possibilities are likelier than others. I disagree. Discussing the possibilities has the important effect of getting other people's viewpoint. It is already clear to me that several players didn't necessarily think about what an all Red-Red and Blue-Blue construction would actually mean. By discussing it we gain the perspective of other players which is advantageous in and of itself. For my part, I had initially viewed Red-Blue pairings purely from the pragmatic stand point of "that pairing must be eliminated," which is true. But through discussion, I've come to realize that we have a potential priority issue. For example, how do you feel about slips? Not that this is particularly germane, but my view of slips is that there is a difference between a 'hard slip' that reveals something Town should not know, and a 'soft slip' where a player treats another player in such a way that implies knowledge of alignment. In one, the act is explicit, in the other the conclusion is implicit. In short, accusations of PIS need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. Ok I'll bring this up, cause it's gonna come up sooner or later... Should we lynch the inactive players or not? I know what I think. Why don't you tell us what you think? I've already learned quite a bit about the players from the slip discussion. I'm skeptical. What did you learn? --- Okay, now I think I'm nominally caught up -- I have a meeting now, so vote will have to wait.
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Post by Mahaloth on Nov 21, 2011 13:13:51 GMT -5
Vote Mr Special EdIt's his suggestion and as it's Day 1 and I don't have much else to go on... I'd just like to see his reaction. Which specific suggestion? I think I'd know, but I'd like you to say it more clearly.
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Post by moodymitchy on Nov 21, 2011 13:29:08 GMT -5
Vote Mr Special EdIt's his suggestion and as it's Day 1 and I don't have much else to go on... I'd just like to see his reaction. Which specific suggestion? I think I'd know, but I'd like you to say it more clearly. This post hereWhere he is responding to Cairie regarding what one should actually do on Day 1 without getting into too much trouble or giving something away.
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Post by sachertorte on Nov 21, 2011 15:34:53 GMT -5
By process of elimination I'm going to vote for one of the following:
Sister Coyote scathach mahaloth colby11 Guiri JustBeingGinger GnarlyCharlie
My reasoning is that most everyone else has posted in a way that I consider to be at least plausibly town (or not at all). While I'm not keen on the idea of giving non-posters a free pass; practically, I don't know what else to do.
Lynching any of these would be acceptable to me. I'm not particularly passionate about any of them at this time. Vote: colby11
Colby gets the vote because he brought up lynching inactive players ostensibly for discussion, without actually discussing it himself.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 21, 2011 16:58:41 GMT -5
Ok I'll bring this up, cause it's gonna come up sooner or later... Should we lynch the inactive players or not? The main reason why I didn't discuss this when I posted was because I meant for this to be a conversation starter, plus I had a thought and then rethought my stance on the question I think that this point may become moot because of the whole "if one goes, the other goes" business... which means that possibly if we lynch Player A, Player B (an inactive player) would be killed too. While I wouldn't apply this for Day 1, I think that the strategy of lynching inactive players (in general) could be a good thing or a bad thing. There have been numerous games in which inactive players have been criticial in the game. Not sure of the game (I think it was Zany Zoo but I'm not sure), but in one game, Captain Pinkies wasn't around, and town lynched him only to find out that he was the town doctor who was protecting the cop. I'm certain that there are instances where scum was lynched too for lurking, otherwise we wouldn't have this strategy. Right now, I think that town shouldn't be targeting the players who aren't playing yet.
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 21, 2011 17:07:02 GMT -5
Unofficial Vote Count (for everyone who need it)
Sister Coyote (1)- Paranoia Inner Stickler (1)- Drain Bead Sinjin (1)- Guiri Mr. Special Ed (1)- moodymitchy Colby11 (1)- Sachertorte
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Post by Colby11 on Nov 21, 2011 17:20:26 GMT -5
Because I haven't discussed the pairings myself, I'll put my 2 cents out there....
I think that there are 3 ways in which our awesome mod made the pairs- either CIAS did it by role, by the order that we signed up (ex. Player #16 is paired with Player #23), or it was random. The most plausible way (to me) that it could have been done is the second or third way that I've described. While it is something to bring up, I don't think that it helps us any, unless we can find out the pairs and whether they're town or scum.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 21, 2011 17:58:40 GMT -5
Actually, the reason for lynching non-active players is somewhat different than you suggest: I was recently (for certain values of recent, anyway) in a game on Giraffe where Town lost because we DIDN'T lynch the inactive, and there was, basically, just me in the end (even though Town still outnumbered Scum, we didn't have the voting players to pull off the win).
That said, though, Day One is hardly the time to be bringing it up.
I'm not willing to hazard a guess about pairings, though I have been following the discussions.
And yes, PIS happens, and sometimes it catches Town out and sometimes it gives away Scum -- about equally, I'd say, in my experience -- but I've seen very few Town Power Roles out themselves by giving something away in discussing game mechanics. Normally, it's more like someone trying to lay down a breadcrumb and instead leaving the whole bakery if a Power Role's going to inadvertently out themself.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Nov 21, 2011 18:18:32 GMT -5
So we have Word of Mod that collars are going to be activated on lynch. Bother. On the other hand, he "no comment'd" out on whether collars would be activated via Nightkill. Interesting.
I don't think we should target inactives. One, because it's a possibility they'll get a sub. Two, with the fact that two collars are going to be activated on lynch, there's a chance we'll hit an inactive anyway. The flip side of that is that since we're lynching people at twice the normal rate, inactivity becomes a bigger hindrance a lot quicker.
So for today, no, but depending on how many people are alive on Day Two/Three we may have to give a serious look at making sure we have active players.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Nov 21, 2011 18:39:14 GMT -5
What did you learn, other than what people think about something that may or may not actually happen in this game, and even if it does happen, should be evaluated on its own merits rather than theoretical ones? I learned that Caerie and Lightfoot rely strongly on gut feelings to determine their opinions on a slip while Pollux and Sachertorte have much more objective rubrics for classifying and characterizing slips. Colby's answer struck me as not particularly informative, but it looks participatory. The end result here is that I'm expecting much more extremely thorough and linear posts and cases from Sach and Pollux while I expect Lightfoot and Caerie to fly by the seat of their pants more often and rely on intuition and player personality more in their analyses. The actual topic* wasn't really relevant other than it was one that people can really have opinions on, as opposed to the collar discussion where any given post will attract more heat. *Although if a slip does become a bone of contention, I'll have a few benchmarks I can look at if I remember them.
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Post by Archangel on Nov 21, 2011 20:46:23 GMT -5
CIAS, with gastardry mentioned as a possibility, can we trust that any question you do directly answer will be answered truthfully?
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Post by Archangel on Nov 21, 2011 20:48:01 GMT -5
I find CIAS' comment "if possible" the linked collar will also be activated to be interesting. It seems to hint at something more than "if player A is targeted and player B who is linked to A is protected."
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Post by Archangel on Nov 21, 2011 20:49:16 GMT -5
Okay, seriously, I win the award for biggest idiot when it comes to technical stuff (wave to Special Ed). Somehow I have "chosen to ignore" Archangel and cannot read my own posts. Can anyone tell me how to fix that?
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Post by Archangel on Nov 21, 2011 20:52:10 GMT -5
Never mind, I figured out how to turn it off.
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Post by LightFoot on Nov 21, 2011 21:07:38 GMT -5
I find CIAS' comment "if possible" the linked collar will also be activated to be interesting. It seems to hint at something more than "if player A is targeted and player B who is linked to A is protected." There is mention of "proximity/distance" so I wonder if that denotes some sort of mechanic as well?
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Nov 21, 2011 21:11:51 GMT -5
As far as slips, they can go both ways. I have seen them be town people make mistakes, and scum slip. There is really no way of knowing until you lynch...
I have mixed emotions for non-active players. On one hand I think they are not contributing anything to the game so what use are you, well you can help the power roles hide a little by better by giving SCUM a bigger pool of players. In the last game from Paranoia, it was Inner's inactivity that gave him away and lynched, and town won.
There is really not much to go on here to place my vote. Yeah we have 5 pages, but there has been so much discussion on what everyone "feels" about slips, inactive players, game mechanics....
Everyone has to keep in mind that this week in the USA is a very busy time. It is Thanksgiving, and getting ready for Thanksgiving, and it is huge Christmas Shopping time and what not. I know I have been busy with setting up the decorations, tree, and the train... Also keep in mind a lot of people travel on this holiday.
I don't like how Colby brought up the "should we vote for inactive players" so early on in the game.
I don't like Paranoia's vote on SisC and the "just because" reason. Now would scum come out so early and put them out there like that, most likely no, but not discounting it...
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Nov 21, 2011 21:14:14 GMT -5
Never mind, I figured out how to turn it off. Hey Archangel, how about changing your font to anything but Green. Makes me think you are a MOD. ;D
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Post by Paranoia on Nov 22, 2011 1:21:11 GMT -5
As far as slips, they can go both ways. I have seen them be town people make mistakes, and scum slip. There is really no way of knowing until you lynch... I have mixed emotions for non-active players. On one hand I think they are not contributing anything to the game so what use are you, well you can help the power roles hide a little by better by giving SCUM a bigger pool of players. In the last game from Paranoia, it was Inner's inactivity that gave him away and lynched, and town won. There is really not much to go on here to place my vote. Yeah we have 5 pages, but there has been so much discussion on what everyone "feels" about slips, inactive players, game mechanics.... Everyone has to keep in mind that this week in the USA is a very busy time. It is Thanksgiving, and getting ready for Thanksgiving, and it is huge Christmas Shopping time and what not. I know I have been busy with setting up the decorations, tree, and the train... Also keep in mind a lot of people travel on this holiday. I don't like how Colby brought up the "should we vote for inactive players" so early on in the game. I don't like Paranoia's vote on SisC and the "just because" reason. Now would scum come out so early and put them out there like that, most likely no, but not discounting it... Why hello there. You don't want to put a vote down this early.. but you do offer up suspicions. Would it be possible for you to provide something more concrete as to what you are thinking, i.e. a vote?
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Post by Silver Jan on Nov 22, 2011 2:16:07 GMT -5
I don't like how Colby brought up the "should we vote for inactive players" so early on in the game. I don't like Paranoia's vote on SisC and the "just because" reason. Now would scum come out so early and put them out there like that, most likely no, but not discounting it... Snipped Why don't you like the way Colby brought up inactive players so early in the game? I thought it was just another way to get people talking on Day1. He didn't say anything about lynching an inactive on Day 1. ( I don't think) I must say that I am not sure who to vote for at the moment, as JBG said, it's been mostly about game mechanics but that's D1 for you. (hmm, have I mentioned before that it's D1?) Could it be possible that in this particular game there could be an equal amount of Blues and Reds and that there isn't really a scum team? or is that too silly? I think that could make an interesting game though.
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Post by CatInASuit on Nov 22, 2011 6:03:57 GMT -5
CIAS, with gastardry mentioned as a possibility, can we trust that any question you do directly answer will be answered truthfully? All questions will be answered honestly.
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Post by CatInASuit on Nov 22, 2011 6:13:19 GMT -5
Day 1 Vote Count
Sister Coyote (1): paranoia (#38) Inner Stickler(1): Drainbead (#115) sinjin(1): guiri(#119) Special Ed(1): moodymitchy(#124) colby11(1): sachertorte(#128)
sachertorte (0) : Silver Jan (#6,#57)
With these votes: Sister Coyote will be lynched.
Day ends in just under 29 hours or so.
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Post by special on Nov 22, 2011 7:56:09 GMT -5
Vote: Sister Coyote
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Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 22, 2011 8:15:03 GMT -5
Sorry, all - had a very busy day yesterday (Monday) and couldn't really get back in here to keep up. Will catch up this morning and resume participation later today.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Nov 22, 2011 8:20:59 GMT -5
hey all. internet is down at home. that's where i usually post so it's preventing me from participating much. hopefully that should improve within the next 24 hours.
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Post by scáthach on Nov 22, 2011 11:02:35 GMT -5
[/color][/quote] Arg, I hate these kind of votes. Maybe it's completely obvious why you feel she's scummy and I'm an idiot for not noticing it too, but I don't get it. Explain pls?
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