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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 9:16:17 GMT -5
Let's try that again. <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> <snip>
Please also note that while peeks as iron man was designated town by color, peeks as deadpool was not. What that means, I dunno, but it seemed worth noting. So when the moderator puts a players name in the color blue, it indicates the player is town? And other colors mean?? <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> The Dawn's color was colored blue for the references of Peeker having referred to himself as being Ironman. I'm not inclined to put much weight in the Mods color or the Mods color of the color for that matter. The Dawn's color...?? Is "dawn" shorthand for a Day's first post by the moderator? <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">NETA And "Dawn's color of the color" means what?? Ok, there's color and there's Color. First off, yeah, when discussing alignment, blue is generally accepted as indicating Town and red is used for Scum. When the moderator reveals alignments, they will generally use those colors, and when players are making vote charts and such they'll tend to follow that convention. There's not a generally accepted color for 3rd party players, purple seems to be most common but there'll be other colors too. Then there's Color, which is used to refer to the story the moderator is telling as the game progresses. When we talk about the Dawn or Dusk color, we're talking about the moderators posts. In some games, there is no color, just announcements. In some games, like this one, the color is mild. Play a Storyteller game and you'll get all the color you can handle. Sometimes, game color contains hints regarding what's going on in the game. Pollux's color this Morning regarding Peekers rolename is obviously game data, and Sis is wondering if there's anything that we can infer from the fact that Peekers "voice" in the Dawn color was coded in blue text. Clear as mud?
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 24, 2012 9:32:25 GMT -5
Clear as mud? At least. Thank-you. I'm still unsure about "dawn". The moderator's first post of the Day?
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 9:53:53 GMT -5
Post draft I've spent some time ploughing through the thread, taking notes. While I need to do some more research, I also want to set down my thoughts. I want to clear a couple of points out of the way before getting down to the big issues later. 1. KidV. KidV came onto my radar late, with his claim of being vote leader owing to having bid high for the Mercenary's services. I can't see why he'd lie about this, frankly. He was trying to skate by without having to admit he'd bought a Night action, but when the vote leader started losing votes he saw a probable unexpected lynching and owned up. KidV's position deserves more than this, but if I start dgging now I won't get everything done. I plan on reviewing his posts (assuming I have time before Nightfall – about four hours) after this. 2. Meeko. Meeko has pinged me slightly, although the issue seems to have dropped off everyone's radar. In D01.171 Meeko says this. “Scum know what Pleo is, and is not. Town do not have this advantage. “ He later claims that this is about Marathon Mafia. Why, then, is it not written in the past tense? I need to keep an eye on Meeko, and it would help if others tried to read his posts. That's cleared the minor points away. What remains is reviewing Pleo and Mahaloth. I'm gong to look at the latter first, and come back to Pleo a bit later. In general, please read my posts. As to why its not in past tense, I already made a post where I clarified / defended against the smudge .... It was bookended my comments about marathon. Iirc, comments were on if Pleonast is wifoming, I made a statement similar to what I made in marathon, that scum's thirst is different than towns thirst. There is information that scum know about Pleonast that town does not. COOKIES hit the nail on the head with her comments. I went with a general statement to exclude 10% (for example) of something, and most people took it to mean I was including 90%. It's like the old Garfield joke, you cut one slice of cake, and eat the rest. Except, in this case, I was going after the original slice. But again, I already said / implied as much. Please see my first comment here. There are times when I've thought I said more than enough. There are times when I can't even get out a single line*. I once joked that I have the madness, -if only I had a method. *Most notably, I got the most hung up like this when I was a mod for my zoo game. Are producers for mafia modding unheard of? Opal's mafia game, produced by Meeko? Would love that. But then again we all have the ideas.... If not the follow through. I digress. Not sure if this should be OOG, but it is meta introspection. I don't know gang, should I go after a point I made, with different words on it, as I have done here? Very hard to do frankly, when half of you don't read me, half read me three times and still don't get me, and the third half of you would OMGUS me onsite.
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Post by sinjin on Sept 24, 2012 9:54:31 GMT -5
Clear as mud? At least. Thank-you. I'm still unsure about "dawn". The moderator's first post of the Day? yes
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 10:03:43 GMT -5
Is there any value in stating how many bids we put in for the merc the day after? I can't shake the notion that this information should be kept secret. If only a player could have our number, so to speak. A shot caller, "Meeko ball in the 8 bid pocket" bang!. Or something.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 10:04:21 GMT -5
At least. Thank-you. I'm still unsure about "dawn". The moderator's first post of the Day? yes Was going to add, that's what I've always taken it to mean.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 10:10:22 GMT -5
The one where the Mafia (the Sons of Loki) made a false Mason claim was Ragnarok, run by Bufftabby and Total Ulla. (Come to think of it, weren't you the hidden Mafia investigator?) You're to blame for the Town having to lynch a known Townie over an outed Mafiate. No, I was a backup of some sort in Ragnarok. That's how I knew you bastards were lying about your Mason claim, because I'd earlier been confused about my role and claimed "mason-ish" and nobody countered. If you'd been real Masons you'd have counterclaimed and I knew it and I never should have let you bastidges get away with that. :mad: When did I force Town to lynch a Townie over a Scum? I don't remember that. OOG Just how long ago was the rag atom game? Because for the miles it has gotten in terms of references it seems EPIC .... And given that I'm not a spring chicken myself....
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 10:11:05 GMT -5
iPad autocorrect. Gotta glove it.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 24, 2012 10:12:32 GMT -5
As to why its not in past tense, I already made a post where I clarified / defended against the smudge .... It was bookended my comments about marathon. I know. I saw it. That post felt to me like you were trying to cover a slip. I didn't trust the explanation, and still don't. I'm just giving you the benefit of the doubt because that's the only thing of yours that stuck out. But I mentioned it so other people can note it. Next time, I suggest you use past tense for past games.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 24, 2012 10:18:58 GMT -5
Just how long ago was the rag atom game? Because for the miles it has gotten in terms of references it seems EPIC .... And given that I'm not a spring chicken myself.... Ragnarok was played in April 09 to June 09. Any game in which the Town mislynch the investigator on Day 1 because they lied about their role is epic from the Mafia side. Then I spent two Nights roleblocking the backup investigator. My favourite memory is when Pollux found his way to the Mafia board. He introduced himself by telling us the names of the Town Vig and the Town Doc. Good times.
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Post by Rich Beckman on Sept 24, 2012 10:27:11 GMT -5
Well, I have not succeeded in rereading all of Day One. But I see that rereading is, for me, well worth doing. I understand a lot more now than I did the first time through.
My vote has been cast on Mahaloth, principally because he was going to kill tonight; secondarily because how he is playing the role does not make sense to me. He is backing off the kill idea, but I still think he has played badly. I'll leave the vote. I do not think it is going to make any difference anyway.
Pleo's claim actually kind of makes sense to me now, with one caveat: as BillMc, I think, pointed out, it is not a very challenging role. In fact, it seems ridiculously easy to achieve the win-con.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 10:35:21 GMT -5
Any game in which the Town mislynch the investigator on Day 1 because they lied about their role is epic from the Mafia side. Fruitbat was a fruitbat, and did not help our cause at all. That game was a cluster, and if you don't stop gloating, I'm going to come across the pond and kick you in the jimmy.
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 10:41:11 GMT -5
unvote crysvote KidvI'm hoping he does have votes from Night 0 on him. Vote: MahalothThat sort of thing makes my already skeptical opinion of you go south. Odds are still low that you're a scumbag overall, since it's D1, but much better than KidV IMO Care to explain that? If he's telling the truth, then he has to save himself from the lynch or he loses. It's about the only way he does lose. If he's lying, he's lying. About all we can tell is that he's almost certainly not town [yet].
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 10:45:15 GMT -5
Any game in which the Town mislynch the investigator on Day 1 because they lied about their role is epic from the Mafia side. Fruitbat was a fruitbat, and did not help our cause at all. That game was a cluster, and if you don't stop gloating, I'm going to come across the pond and kick you in the jimmy. One man's clusterlove is another man's hall of fame induction, I guess.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 10:46:34 GMT -5
One man's clusterlove is another man's hall of fame induction, I guess. It was hall of fame stuff, too. Town got straight schooled.
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 10:46:48 GMT -5
I tend to believe Mahaloth at least partially. Though I more or less agree with the analysis of Merestil Haye that he can choose scum or town.
I'm having a hard time coming up with any reason why he'd false claim if he was already scum.
We have the moderator saying that no involuntary recruitment will occur. So the only way that Mahaloth actually becomes scum is if he actually wants to and he hits the chance of meeting scum at night. I get the feeling he's being honest and doesn't want to be scum. He may have edited his PM to that end. Or it is implicit (e.g. in the statement about meeting scum).
About the only way I see him becoming scum is if it's his wincon. In fact, as I think people have mentioned, it's almost necessary for him to have the option to choose town or scum (or other??). It would be cruel of the moderator to say 'no involuntary recruitment' but more or less force someone to do that. That said, this is a gastard game. On the other hand, the usual dislike of recruitment is that pro-town players don't want to suddenly become scum. Which could be kind of a loophole here, but I don't want to hang too much on it. I don't think it's likely that he must become scum to win.
If there is something else peculiar about his role, or he's a hostile third-party, then he gets lynched later. Not to say a player wouldn't do it, but there seems to be no good reason for him to claim in that case, unless he's got something really weird going on (like jester).
I wrote most of this and realized he might be scum-aligned (but not connected to scum) and trying to signal them, but a false claim seems a crazy way to do it. If he did survive he'd be under scrutiny, and likely to die before then.
In short, as a vig he is a potential threat, but I don't want to lynch him, because I don't think he's scum. And I'm not entirely sure he lied about his PM, if we happen to be playing 'lynch all liars'.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 24, 2012 10:50:57 GMT -5
It was hall of fame stuff, too. Town got straight schooled. Speak for yourself. I killed scum that game.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 10:51:43 GMT -5
Just how long ago was the rag atom game? Because for the miles it has gotten in terms of references it seems EPIC .... And given that I'm not a spring chicken myself.... Ragnarok was played in April 09 to June 09. Any game in which the Town mislynch the investigator on Day 1 because they lied about their role is epic from the Mafia side. Then I spent two Nights roleblocking the backup investigator. My favourite memory is when Pollux found his way to the Mafia board. He introduced himself by telling us the names of the Town Vig and the Town Doc. Good times. 09 you say !? 2009 !? Yeah, I don't trust that. Perhaps I am confusing it with monkgate. Because I thought ragnarok was before my time.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 10:52:50 GMT -5
It was hall of fame stuff, too. Town got straight schooled. Speak for yourself. I killed scum that game. Did you? I thought Town was skunked, but I could be misremembering.
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 10:53:55 GMT -5
Ragnarok was played in April 09 to June 09. Any game in which the Town mislynch the investigator on Day 1 because they lied about their role is epic from the Mafia side. Then I spent two Nights roleblocking the backup investigator. My favourite memory is when Pollux found his way to the Mafia board. He introduced himself by telling us the names of the Town Vig and the Town Doc. Good times. 09 you say !? 2009 !? Yeah, I don't trust that. Perhaps I am confusing it with monkgate. Because I thought ragnarok was before my time. Ragnarok was the second game on the Geeb, right after Alpha Centauri.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 24, 2012 10:54:36 GMT -5
I popped einmon N1. It was our only victory and it was a lucky shot but still.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 24, 2012 10:58:07 GMT -5
Vote: Colby Posting math problems is not evidence of scum. At least wait until the second problem to assert a pattern.
And I'm nervous at how often Cookies agrees with me with qualifications. Usually I think we're at opposite ends of playing philosophies.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 24, 2012 11:08:04 GMT -5
09 you say !? 2009 !? Yeah, I don't trust that. Perhaps I am confusing it with monkgate. Because I thought ragnarok was before my time. Ragnarok was the second game on the Geeb, right after Alpha Centauri. I'm doing laundry, as I was bringing my clothes up, I was thinking it was over on giraffe. I would join, but there needs to be some place where ED can wear his I heart Meeko shirt in peace amirite? But you got me on the Dope and here, so I'm not _really_ addicted, right?
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Post by Mahaloth on Sept 24, 2012 11:09:19 GMT -5
I tend to believe Mahaloth at least partially. Though I more or less agree with the analysis of Merestil Haye that he can choose scum or town. Except my role is exactly as stated and I can not choose scum. However, this is simply "my word". I know it is early, but I do want to revisit this role at the end of the game if I am indeed lynched today. It really is the role I was handed, with zero alternate wincons, and I'm curious if my gamble was at least partially intelligent considering that. Don't be surprised if I pop back in the post-game discussion to ask. I'm also curious what folks think of the role.
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 11:17:42 GMT -5
mahaloth, what's your own take on "If you kill a scum in this way and aren't Town yet, you will be given the opportunity to change alignment."
Did you consider that line before you claimed?
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Post by Parzival on Sept 24, 2012 11:36:39 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more scummy the KidVermicious bid looks to me.
We have to accept that he made the high bid since no counter-claim. And for now accept the number (don't think he'd lie about that regardless of alignment).
But we're going with just his say, even though he we don't know his alignment, that we should go on what he says. I realize that maybe most people are actually voting Mahaloth because they want to, not to 'save' KidV, but I don't think Mahaloth is scum.
Such a high bid, essentially 'forcing' us to bandwagon on someone else and letting scum hide there, while gaining control of the merc, seems enough like a scummy ploy to me to:
vote KidVermicious
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 24, 2012 11:43:01 GMT -5
Day 1 Updated Vote Count
mahaloth (15 votes) - scathach, Pleonast, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, Suburban Plankton, sinjin, Silver Jan, KidVermicious, richbeckman, storyteller0910, Colby11, guiri, BillMc, wombat99, askthepizzaguy, Merestil Haye Pleonast (7 votes) - Suburban Plankton, LaurieRN, KidVermicious, scathach, Meeko, crys, mahaloth Colby11 (4 votes) - patricia, storyteller0910, dizzymrslizzy, Inner Stickler KidVermicious (3 votes) - gnarlycharlie, mahaloth, Parzival dizzymrslizzy (2 votes) - Red Skeezix, Askthepizzaguy Inner Stickler (2 votes) - Parzival, Meeko crys (1 votes) - Red Skeezix CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1 vote) - peekercpa sinjin (1 vote) - Pleonast patricia (1 vote) - Colby11 Parzival (1 vote) - Sister Coyote Silver Jan (1 vote) - gnarlycharlie Merestil Haye (1 vote) - Lightfoot Peekercpa (1 vote) - guiri
With these votes, mahaloth will be lynched.
Day ends in ~15 minutes.
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Post by Pleonast on Sept 24, 2012 11:45:36 GMT -5
I just got in and am headed into a meeting. Here's the answer to my question to the moderator:
It will be the bottom 20% of posters, not posts made. If there are any ties for post count all people with the tied post count will be available to investigate. So in this case, wombat, mahaloth, SisterCoyote, Red Skeezix, guiri, Parzival, Bill, and Ginger (not listed with 0) would be available.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 24, 2012 11:46:26 GMT -5
Pollux, did you miss my vote in 683?
If not: -
Vote Mahaloth
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Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2012 11:47:09 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more scummy the KidVermicious bid looks to me. We have to accept that he made the high bid since no counter-claim. And for now accept the number (don't think he'd lie about that regardless of alignment). But we're going with just his say, even though he we don't know his alignment, that we should go on what he says. I realize that maybe most people are actually voting Mahaloth because they want to, not to 'save' KidV, but I don't think Mahaloth is scum. Such a high bid, essentially 'forcing' us to bandwagon on someone else and letting scum hide there, while gaining control of the merc, seems enough like a scummy ploy to me to: vote KidVermicious You really think that I placed a high bid for the purpose of forcing a bandwagon? That I knew there would be a faceoff with another player, and I would risk that faceoff and losing a member of the scum team AND the merc action to do it? Instead of, you know, keeping my mouth shut and letting my team save me? That makes no sense, Parz. Please unvote me.
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