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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 0:30:28 GMT -5
Once again I posted my win-con clues when I thought I was Town I was the first to do so and they are verbatim matching the claimed Christians ( it’s annoying that word caps Christians but not the other options)
The devils are having fun with this . I do not have anything else in clues- at all
The fact that others have asked another heretic to step out- makes me think that – perhaps- Devils can use heretics?
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 0:31:37 GMT -5
Holy, Heretics are not Good guys IRL. That's my whole point.... If you were playing in IDK, a Batman game and you came across a character named The Riddler....Yeah he's not the Joker, but he's still a bad guy! bad example- given the revisited
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 0:34:23 GMT -5
Do your results give you Devil/non Devil ? or do you/ can you / get specific faction results?- I mean what are the odds you chose to investigate 2 players that WERE christian? - help us out here- if your results were specific- with out a clue of an option of other factions share that please I was told they were Christian in a PM from Pleonast. No other option, no other faction. To address the second part - there are several people who have expressed the opinion that Mr V and DML are the two scummiest players in the game. An investigator might want to check, no? I have no idea what the odds are. Flipping a coin can yield the same result several times in a row. Because there are two options ( not how ever many still viable for investigation in this game)
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 1:10:51 GMT -5
NET
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 1:13:15 GMT -5
DAMN LAPTOP
neta there are two options with a coin toss
not so much here
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 16, 2013 1:52:20 GMT -5
Thinking outloud here
We now have two new groups, the Pagans and the Heretics. Pagans, as looked up earlier, I can see as possibly a place for scum to recruit from. Heretics, as looked up via Wikipedia, is basically someone who disagrees with everything given....
I don't buy the heretic claim, to be perfectly honest. That, combined with the actual definition, smells of a possible winstealer role.
Vote: Vote Wombat
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 16, 2013 6:42:56 GMT -5
I got the same message as Idle did about protection and I accepted. I didn't have to do anything in the duel with Lauriern, I just got the PM at Dawn. I did get Investigation results on D2 about what someone did on N1 and I haven't revealed them yet. I didn't get results for N2 as I knew I wouldn't. I don't want to go into details about why I didn't, it would give the Devils too much information and I don't think that's a good thing. silverjan, I think it would be a good idea if you took a few moments to tell us, plainly and clearly and in some detail, exactly what PMs you received, how they affected your potential for using your abilities, and when you did or did not actually use your abilities. So far, it seems that you've given a lot of cryptic hints and hurried explanations, and it seems pretty obvious that there's a good deal of confusion about what you actually meant to say. Sowing confusion is not a Townie trait, so it would be a 'good thing' for you to set things straight. I haven't given cryptic clues and I have been hurried because I have a life, yes, really! I got a message that someone wanted to slake their lust with me and as I was horny too I said yes, I gained a sin. Okay? This protected me at Night. The PM's I received in NO way affected my role as a watcher/tracker. I investigated Guiri on N1. On N2 I could not investigate anyone and I will NOT go into detail about why I couldn't. I need to re-read all this, having 4 factions is quite a surprise but it doesn't say anything in my PM about having to kill off other factions or that another group could steal a win from Town. There's a lot to digest, especially if we are lunching people (I found Dizzy's typo very amusing)
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Post by guiri on Feb 16, 2013 7:04:04 GMT -5
I don't have any information that tells me I need to find other Heretics; I was hoping to help stem the growing bandwagon against me (if another Heretic picked up on that, maybe they wouldn't vote for me); and I figured someone might be looking for me, for recruitment, conversion, I don't know...) I'm inclined to believe that you are a heretic: your earlier post supports this and I'd imagine a false claiming devil would claim Christian or pagan before inventing an entitely new faction, but I'm somewhat more suspicious of your motivations than I am of the claimed pagans so far. If you really had the same wincon as Christians and you really share the same goals, I don't see why you'd atttempt to signal to other heretics. Your gung-ho approach to lynching sinless christians takes on a whole light knowing you are not a Christian yourself, I suspect an ulterior motive but I realise that you are not a priority lynch candidate but someone to be very wary of.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 7:52:56 GMT -5
- It mentions nothing about any other faction, hostile or otherwise, that I need to beat. It's absolutely clear on that point. "You have to beat the devils". Not any other factions, not win-stealing third-parties. Just the devils. Ergo, there are no win-stealing factions out there. None. That's not speculation, it's right there in my win-condition. Oh, COME ON...surely you can't be this dense/obtuse. I mean, so far, up until now..I've pretty much agreed with everything you've posted. But this quoted part here is just the biggest form of naivety that I've ever seen. Seriously? I think that your assumption would be a very dangerous thing to assume. I mean, there are third parties in games all the time that can steal the win from Town that Town are not told about. Mad Bombers, Serial Killers, Jesters...probably a ton of personalized ones. To assume that just because the PM says we have to beat the Devils doesn't mean there aren't other malicious factions out there...and yes, even faction that have THEIR OWN winning conditions that makes Town lose. You seem to see this as "We beat the Devils, we win" deal...but what if another faction MEETS THEIR WINCON (whatever they may be) BEFORE we can do that? I'll tell you... A WIN-STEAL FROM TOWN.Now obviously I don't know if one of the factions has one and I'm not going to go gung ho on my suspicions of them all...but to assume everyone is a non-threat is just foolish, I think. Come on, man, this is mafia..and this is a PLEONAST game, what's more. There's going to be more than one win con here. There isn't any faction that I have to beat in order to win, other than the devils. It's right there in my PM. "You have to beat the devils". That one line in itself absolutely dismisses any possibility of a win-stealing third-party faction, unless Pleonast has set up an absolute gastardly game here. I do not get the resistance from people who are apparently confirmed Christians to this idea. Have you been burned by third-parties so often that you make the assumption that their win-con will override yours in every single game?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 7:56:07 GMT -5
Thinking outloud here We now have two new groups, the Pagans and the Heretics. Pagans, as looked up earlier, I can see as possibly a place for scum to recruit from. Heretics, as looked up via Wikipedia, is basically someone who disagrees with everything given.... I don't buy the heretic claim, to be perfectly honest. That, combined with the actual definition, smells of a possible winstealer role. Vote: Vote Wombat [/color][/quote] Are you serious? Are you for serious? It's like trying to argue with twenty brick walls...
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Post by guiri on Feb 16, 2013 8:04:26 GMT -5
Yep, I'm voting a claimed 3rd party. I don't like the name of her "group" and I'm starting to think this is more like the Royal Rumble set up, where there is maybe: But if this was anyway like Royal Rumble, to continue the analogy, pagans and heretics could choose whether to work with Christians or devils, the Christians still need to be sure to eliminate the devils, the pagans and heretics need to get rid of the other faction. Oh, and Guiri didn't vote. Unvote: Guiri. I almost voted her, a knee-jerk reaction to non-"town" claims. The fact is, to me there's already a lot of confirming going on and it seems really strange to me. Ryjae says he can confirm Christians 100% and now you have a method of doing that as well, and between the two of you, you've already 100% cleared three people? To me, something doesn't quite add up there with my limited view of the picture. Not to mention SilverJan's reluctance to OMGUS vote me based on her N1 result. I mean, there are third parties in games all the time that can steal the win from Town that Town are not told about. Mad Bombers, Serial Killers, Jesters...probably a ton of personalized ones. True but usually players are at least aware that there's more than a scum faction by the wording in the wincon: "You must kill all scum" is different to "You must remove all threats to Town". when I thought I was Town What made you think you were Town? What makes you think you're not Town now?
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 16, 2013 8:12:56 GMT -5
Guiri, the person you went to see is still alive so I didn't think you were a killer.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 8:26:25 GMT -5
I got a message that someone wanted to slake their lust with me and as I was horny too I said yes, I gained a sin. And now we've gone straight from "too little information" to "too much information!" I guess the slaking part explains the protection... I don't even want to know what the "horny" part explains. I still haven't had any of this hot slaking action. It's very depressing. From somebody who has had Guiri on his "wants watching" list, although some of that may admittedly be paranoia from Wonderland... I'm not going to ask you what your results were in case they'd potentially reveal the nature of a town power role, but I'd like you to humour a theory of mine. Assume for a moment that the devils do not have a regular night kill and were therefore not responsible for Paranoia's death. (I'd actually put the chances of that at about 50% right now, given Paranoia's role title and the circumstances behind Laurie's death, but assume it's true for this question.) If that is the case, would you say that Guiri looks more or less likely to be a devil, or are your results inconclusive? Unvote: All. Might as well start this one with a clean slate if DizzyLizzy seriously isn't a devil.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 16, 2013 8:27:12 GMT -5
I was told they were Christian in a PM from Pleonast. No other option, no other faction. I don't mean to beat this to death or make you reveal something you don't want to reveal, but is it the nature of your role that your alignment investigations cannot be manipulated by game mechanics? Or do you mean that the results PM from Pleo says that they are 100% for-sure-no-other-possibility Christian?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 8:27:26 GMT -5
Guiri, the person you went to see is still alive so I didn't think you were a killer. Inconclusive then. Ah well.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 8:46:53 GMT -5
I almost voted her, a knee-jerk reaction to non-"town" claims. when I thought I was Town What made you think you were Town? What makes you think you're not Town now? As to the first point, there's a lot of that knee-jerk thing going around apparently. I'll field the second one as well if you don't mind... I don't think "town" and "scum", as such, exist. I think there are (at least) three factions that all have their own win conditions independant of one another, all of whom must beat a fourth faction (the devils) to win. I suspect that how a Pagan, Christian or Heretic actually "wins" boils down to what happens when either they die or the devils are all dead. I'm basing all of this on my own win condition and the veracity, as I see it, of the claims that have been presented by various parties. I've also changed my mind on the "recruitment" question. Given the lack of verifiable scum-kills, I'm inclined to believe that the devils' modus operandi is to harvest "souls", and that's where the recruitment aspect of the game comes in. How they do this, I'm not sure at all. I admit that this is something of an assumption, but it seems to fit what we know better than a game of conventional scum whose main task is to gain a voting majority by eliminating or lynching their competition. As for devilish recruiters... nobody's claimed to have tried to be recruited by a third-party yet, by the way... two things make me think that it's unlikely the devils can "recruit" in the conventional meaning of the word. Firstly, the opening colour describes devils as "infernal approximations of" humans. In other words, they were never human themselves, they just disguise as them. A minor point, but possibly significant. Secondly, in a game with at least four separate factions, I think that a devil recruitment option would just be too unbalancing, especially if the town (Christians? Pagans? Heretics? I'm not even sure any more...) are given no warning of it beforehand. The idea that somebody could be practically "cleared" on day one by, say, Ryjae or SquashGorilla, and then become a devil the very next day... it could potentially ruin the game. So the most likely option, to me, is that we have to oust a set group of devils who've been that way since Day One. I see no problems proceeding along those lines unless some evidence is presented to make another option seem more likely.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 16, 2013 8:52:25 GMT -5
I don't have any information that tells me I need to find other Heretics; I was hoping to help stem the growing bandwagon against me (if another Heretic picked up on that, maybe they wouldn't vote for me); and I figured someone might be looking for me, for recruitment, conversion, I don't know...) I'm inclined to believe that you are a heretic: your earlier post supports this and I'd imagine a false claiming devil would claim Christian or pagan before inventing an entitely new faction, but I'm somewhat more suspicious of your motivations than I am of the claimed pagans so far. If you really had the same wincon as Christians and you really share the same goals, I don't see why you'd atttempt to signal to other heretics. Your gung-ho approach to lynching sinless christians takes on a whole light knowing you are not a Christian yourself, I suspect an ulterior motive but I realise that you are not a priority lynch candidate but someone to be very wary of. There is no ulterior motive. I realized right off the bat that I had the Christian wincon yet I had a different alignment; it made no sense. Why? I wondered if something more would be revealed to me, or if something would happen at Night, or if someone needed to find me or I needed to find them. Nothing has happened. That is all the information I have. As for my idea that sinless Christians should be lynched and sent straight to Heaven - scoff at the idea, call me an idiot, whatever, but I will say it again: we do not know how this game works. 24 hours ago, we didn't even know there are 4 teams, and it's Day 3! If we can't discuss and consider different ways to play that might prove beneficial to defeating the Devils, we are doing ourselves a disservice. One more thought: Maybe the only purpose for the Heretics and Pagans is to sow confusion and discord amongst those who should be banding together against the Devils.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 16, 2013 9:01:18 GMT -5
There's a lot to digest, especially if we are lunching people (I found Dizzy's typo very amusing) Ha! Good one. that was my typo, actually. I don't want anyone else to take the blame for my poor tablet typing skills.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 9:02:04 GMT -5
As for my idea that sinless Christians should be lynched and sent straight to Heaven - scoff at the idea, call me an idiot, whatever. Ok then! Not a problem. I will give you this, if you really are a devil - or a win-stealing third-party of the kind that, according to my role PM, I don't even have to beat - I have to give you points for inventiveness. Rather than just trying to fake cases on Christians and get them lynched that way, you call for them to lynch themselves? That is so sublimely simple, I wonder that other scum teams don't routinely do it. Maybe they will after this. Maybe you'll start a trend!
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 16, 2013 9:10:43 GMT -5
Thinking outloud here We now have two new groups, the Pagans and the Heretics. Pagans, as looked up earlier, I can see as possibly a place for scum to recruit from. Heretics, as looked up via Wikipedia, is basically someone who disagrees with everything given.... I don't buy the heretic claim, to be perfectly honest. That, combined with the actual definition, smells of a possible winstealer role. Vote: Vote Wombat What about my claim don't you buy? If you are voting me because of the fear of the unknown, or because of the definition of the word "heretic," then I can't do anything about that, but my claim and wincon are exactly what I've been provided from the Mod.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Feb 16, 2013 9:48:59 GMT -5
I am catching up. Can someone point me to Wombat's soft claim?
Hockey Monkey can I ask why you are specifically voting for me?
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 9:56:34 GMT -5
when I thought I was Town What made you think you were Town? What makes you think you're not Town now? My PM made me think I was the good guys- I have to beat the Devils to win I have capabilities that I associate with Town. I still consider myself Town now – but just like RL – the christians came busting in the door with the holier than thou attitude and some won’t accept other factions as viable
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 10:05:39 GMT -5
For those bringing up recruitment There is absolutely NO mention of recruitment in my PM And I don’t expect those who do ( if they exist) to volunteer that information
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 10:07:02 GMT -5
I am catching up. Can someone point me to Wombat's soft claim? Hockey Monkey can I ask why you are specifically voting for me? page 4
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 16, 2013 10:16:23 GMT -5
Thinking outloud here We now have two new groups, the Pagans and the Heretics. Pagans, as looked up earlier, I can see as possibly a place for scum to recruit from. Heretics, as looked up via Wikipedia, is basically someone who disagrees with everything given.... I don't buy the heretic claim, to be perfectly honest. That, combined with the actual definition, smells of a possible winstealer role. Vote: Vote Wombat What about my claim don't you buy? If you are voting me because of the fear of the unknown, or because of the definition of the word "heretic," then I can't do anything about that, but my claim and wincon are exactly what I've been provided from the Mod. I understand that you can't do anything about your role. The fact that we don't know everyone's win cons makes me think that one or both groups are win stealers in some way.... Not sure how... My mind keeps coming back to the hint "getting rid of sins is good, getting more may or may not help your team" I am so confused
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Post by texcat on Feb 16, 2013 10:24:45 GMT -5
Guiri, the person you went to see is still alive so I didn't think you were a killer. All we really know is that he was not a successful killer. He could still be a killer. He could still be a Devil. He could still be some sort of recruiter.
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 10:51:21 GMT -5
What about my claim don't you buy? If you are voting me because of the fear of the unknown, or because of the definition of the word "heretic," then I can't do anything about that, but my claim and wincon are exactly what I've been provided from the Mod. I understand that you can't do anything about your role. The fact that we don't know everyone's win cons makes me think that one or both groups are win stealers in some way.... Not sure how... My mind keeps coming back to the hint "getting rid of sins is good, getting more may or may not help your team" I am so confused Do your win-clues say anything other than " stop the Devils from winning?" ( and the sin stuff) the confusion confuses me I highly suggest that you focus on killing suspected Devils- not the "religions" you don't understand
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 11:12:46 GMT -5
Colby see if this helps..
Removing your sins will always help your team, but increasing them may or may not be beneficial.
For example we have a claimed sin remover
Removing sins is good
Maybe the remover of sins gets a sin when they cleanse another= it’s a trade off but good for the team
Perhaps our ‘protectors’ gain a sin when they protect someone= it’s a trade off but good for the team ( if they protect the right person)
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 16, 2013 11:14:01 GMT -5
I was told they were Christian in a PM from Pleonast. No other option, no other faction. I don't mean to beat this to death or make you reveal something you don't want to reveal, but is it the nature of your role that your alignment investigations cannot be manipulated by game mechanics? Or do you mean that the results PM from Pleo says that they are 100% for-sure-no-other-possibility Christian? Wombat, I've been as clear as I possibly can. There is no possibility that DML and Mr V are anything but Christian.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 16, 2013 11:20:12 GMT -5
I am catching up. Can someone point me to Wombat's soft claim? Hockey Monkey can I ask why you are specifically voting for me? My notes for you do not contain the words "Leaning Christian". I'm voting for you right now because you are on my list of possible scum.
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