Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 16, 2013 11:45:47 GMT -5
I understand that you can't do anything about your role. The fact that we don't know everyone's win cons makes me think that one or both groups are win stealers in some way.... Not sure how... My mind keeps coming back to the hint "getting rid of sins is good, getting more may or may not help your team" I am so confused Do your win-clues say anything other than " stop the Devils from winning?" ( and the sin stuff) the confusion confuses me I highly suggest that you focus on killing suspected Devils- not the "religions" you don't understand The additional groups is what is confusing me right now. I think that somehow that clue gives us something to work with....
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Post by texcat on Feb 16, 2013 12:34:54 GMT -5
01. Hockey Monkey! Claims misterV and dizzy are 100% Christian 02. silverjan Tracked Guiri N1. Could not use power N2. Slaked lust N2. 03. guiri Tracked by silverjan N1. 04. wombat99 The Manichee, Heretic, [redacted] 05. Paranoia - The Martyr, Christian, Manipulator - Killed Night One 06. JustBeingGinger 07. mistervisceral Claimed Christian by Hockey 08. gnarlycharlie Mahaloth 09. scathach Has not posted D3. 10. storyteller0910 Has not posted D3. 6 posts in total. 11. Chucara 11 posts total. 12. crys The Medium, Pagan, Mechanic. Tried to channel SisC N2, unsuccessful. Offer to slake lust on D3. 13. Suburban Plankton 14. KidVermicious 15. Pollux Oil 16. Solaris colby11 17. texcat 18. Lightfoot Pagan, not a mechanic 19. Idle Thoughts Christian, mechanic. Sins cleansed N1 by Ryjae. Declined offer to slake lust N2. 20. patricia - The Horseman of Death, Devil, Manipulator - Lynched Day One 21. HolyMoley! 22. lauriern - The Duelist, Christian, Killer/Investigator - Killed Night Two 23. BillMc Started with no sins. Accepted Ryjae's offer to cleanse sins N2. 24. dizzymrslizzy Claimed Christian by Hockey. 25. Sister Coyote - The Inquisitor, Christian, Killer/Investigator - Lynched Day Two 26. ryjae The Confessor. Cleansed Idle N1. Attempt to cleanse Bill N2.
What did I miss? Ryjae, did I miss who you are attempting to absolve tonight? We need to know who to lynch if you show up dead.
Lynch the lurker votes: Vote: scathach vote: storyteller vote: chucara
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 16, 2013 13:05:53 GMT -5
There isn't any faction that I have to beat in order to win, other than the devils. It's right there in my PM. "You have to beat the devils". That one line in itself absolutely dismisses any possibility of a win-stealing third-party faction, unless Pleonast has set up an absolute gastardly game here. Mafia is won by whoever fullfills their win conditions first. If another group fills them BEFORE we're trying to beat the devils, THEY WIN.....and yet, it doesn't change the fact that we still have to beat the devils and only devils for US to win. Don't you get it? Let's say our wincon is to beat the devils. Okay, if we can do that, we win. Let's say Pagan (and this is just an example) wincon is "have all heretic's dead".... if they do that BEFORE we get rid of the Devils, they win and we don't. Your PM is not always going to tell you all of the dangers out there that could cause you to die (or lose). Just because it tells you how WE WIN doesn't mean we can't lose in other ways. All it does it tell you how WE WIN and that's it. Yeah, it says "beat the devils" for us to win. That's what ---WE--- have to do to win. If ---WE--- do that before another group reached their win con, WE win. What you don't seem to be admitting/realizing is that other groups MAY have different or other win conditions instead of "Kill devils". Yes, I know that so far Pagans and Heretics have SAID that the win con is the same, but who really knows other than them? They may have reason to lie. Look, all I'm saying is I think it's dangerous to assume that the other groups in this game pose no threat to us whatsoever... OTHERWISE, WHY HAVE DIFFERENT FACTIONS IN the first place?. I'm particularly concerned about the HERETIC group. I just don't want to be someone who has to say "I told you so" at the end of the game.
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 13:16:56 GMT -5
Like someone said
it’s Pleo’s game
it feels like a science experiment
( and could be one hell of a paper )
** generally**history and religion says that Christians are the best and devils are the worst OK I’m against devils-but- Christians should not GET ALL THE POINTS for goodness
Take religious bias off the table
If the frogs – monkeys-giraffes all had a win con to defeat the groundhogs- would y’all look at this different?
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 13:23:40 GMT -5
NOW can we hunt for Devils and take religion off the fracking table?
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 13:26:52 GMT -5
Idle try this…..In this game I am a Pagan- when I didn’t know there were other factions ( besides Devils) I posted my win-con-clues Mine are no different than any other that has been posted since
but I understand Mafia paranoia
if I sound overly annoyed IRL I am not a Christian and I find the theme of this game challenging—and telling I must say – since many who are designated christian seem to feel empowered
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 13:58:46 GMT -5
There isn't any faction that I have to beat in order to win, other than the devils. It's right there in my PM. "You have to beat the devils". That one line in itself absolutely dismisses any possibility of a win-stealing third-party faction, unless Pleonast has set up an absolute gastardly game here. Mafia is won by whoever fullfills their win conditions first. If another group fills them BEFORE we're trying to beat the devils, THEY WIN.....and yet, it doesn't change the fact that we still have to beat the devils and only devils for US to win. Don't you get it? Let's say our wincon is to beat the devils. Okay, if we can do that, we win. Let's say Pagan (and this is just an example) wincon is "have all heretic's dead".... if they do that BEFORE we get rid of the Devils, they win and we don't. Your PM is not always going to tell you all of the dangers out there that could cause you to die (or lose). Just because it tells you how WE WIN doesn't mean we can't lose in other ways. All it does it tell you how WE WIN and that's it. Yeah, it says "beat the devils" for us to win. That's what ---WE--- have to do to win. If ---WE--- do that before another group reached their win con, WE win. What you don't seem to be admitting/realizing is that other groups MAY have different or other win conditions instead of "Kill devils". Yes, I know that so far Pagans and Heretics have SAID that the win con is the same, but who really knows other than them? They may have reason to lie. Look, all I'm saying is I think it's dangerous to assume that the other groups in this game pose no threat to us whatsoever... OTHERWISE, WHY HAVE DIFFERENT FACTIONS IN the first place?. I'm particularly concerned about the HERETIC group. I just don't want to be someone who has to say "I told you so" at the end of the game. You are being really, really paranoid here. You are seeing traps where none exist, and you're ignoring the evidence of your own win condition to do it. First off, your evidence that the game ends - heck, that the game CAN end - when a third-party meets their win condition, is what exactly? That's a ridiculous assumption to make, and again, it contradicts my own win condition. It also contradicts the facts that you provided. The game ends when the devils either win or lose. You know how I know this? Because my own win condition says outright "You have to beat the devils". See how easy this is? And if I'm genuinely competing with other groups that my wincon says nothing about, I might as well give up now. It's a gastard game, pure and simple. After death, maybe things are different. Or maybe the Pagans have to end up in Zion instead of the Christians' Heaven, and have their own ways of getting there. I don't know. All I care about is that their winning does not affect my chances of doing the same. Look, I'm fed up of arguing about this. My wincon says I have to beat the devils. Therefore I'm focussing on beating the devils. I don't know about the third parties. It seems ridiculously paranoid to be focussing on them when my win condition specifically says that I have to beat the devils (and nobody else). I suspect that their win/loss status is judged when the devils win or lose, the same as my own is. And for the record, I'm about as sure Chucara is not a devil as I can possibly be without actually having investigated him/her (yeah, my gender memory sucks). Can't say that he / she isn't a third-party. But they're not a devil. So put down " Chucara confirmed by Moley" if you want.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 15:27:19 GMT -5
I'm a guy And yes, I completely realize that I have a stupid nickname for determining gender, but I have been using it for waaay too long to replace it. Maybe El Chucara would clear things up a little. Anyway, back to the game with some votes (for now): Lurker votes based on Todays participation (and yes, I deserve one too, sorry about that): Vote: JustBeingGinger Vote: KidVermicious Next up, can someone please clarify the BillMc situation. From my view, we have a de facto investigator, who was either declined or blocked, right? From my read, BillMc was targetted, and accepted, so scum MUST have a day blocker, right? Second, I don't like the following people for what seems like an attempt to try to coerce town into hunting "3rd parties": Vote: mahaloth Vote: guiri Vote: DizzyMrsLizzy Vote:
I am perfectly fine with lynching any of the ones I've cast a vote on. Wombat and Bill have kinda slipped off my scumdar, so pending a reread when I have more time, no votes for them (sorry guys )
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 15:27:59 GMT -5
Ack. My OCD compels me to edit. but alas, I cannot.
Vote: DizzyMrsLizzy [/color=blue]
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 15:28:47 GMT -5
Vote: DizzyMrsLizzy
*sigh*
I solemnly swear to use the Preview button more often.
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 16, 2013 15:57:16 GMT -5
Chucara, did you read the thread before you voted for DML? If so, would you justify your vote for her?
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 16:25:04 GMT -5
Chucara, did you read the thread before you voted for DML? If so, would you justify your vote for her? I read 1-4 quite thoroughly, but spaced out after that. I will reread before setlling in on votes. Same reason as I voted for Guiri and mahaloth. With the information we have, we have no reason to believe that there even is a third party. If she has claimed, I have completely missed it.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:28:09 GMT -5
Second, I don't like the following people for iwhat seems like an attempt to try to coerce town into hunting "3rd parties": Vote: mahaloth [/color] Vote: guiri [/color] Vote: DizzyMrsLizzy Vote:
I am perfectly fine with lynching any of the ones I've cast a vote on. Wombat and Bill have kinda slipped off my scumdar, so pending a reread when I have more time, no votes for them (sorry guys )[/quote] What? When did I do that? Huh? I literally have NEVER stated we should go after 3rd parties and currently have a vote on someone voting who is voting to lynch heretic over Devil! Vote Chucarafor blatantly lying about me, voting me for false reasons, and then saying he may need a re-read. No crap!
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:28:48 GMT -5
Ah, I'm mobile. I'll vote for that lying liar when I get home v
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Post by guiri on Feb 16, 2013 18:38:53 GMT -5
Guiri. I think it's safe to say that Wombat was signalling to the other Heretics, if any were out there, to take their votes off of her. In fact, I'd say that the moment you look at that post, it's obvious enough that it barely deserves mentioning, except possibly as negative confirmation of Wombat's claim[...] I just noticed you mentioned the idea of players attempting to signal others of the same alignment to potentially gain access to offboards or additional powers. 4) Does "recruitment" refer to a player changing alignment at the request of another player, as most seem to have assumed; or can it also refer to something like, for example, players of the same alignment "finding" each other and gaining off-board communication or powers? And apparently that's what she was trying to do: There is no ulterior motive. I realized right off the bat that I had the Christian wincon yet I had a different alignment; it made no sense. Why? I wondered if something more would be revealed to me, or if something would happen at Night, or if someone needed to find me or I needed to find them. Nothing has happened. That is all the information I have. As for my idea that sinless Christians should be lynched and sent straight to Heaven - scoff at the idea, call me an idiot, whatever, but I will say it again: we do not know how this game works. 24 hours ago, we didn't even know there are 4 teams, and it's Day 3! If we can't discuss and consider different ways to play that might prove beneficial to defeating the Devils, we are doing ourselves a disservice. Ideas are good, discussion is good, suggesting something and then acting on it immediately without discussion raises eyebrows. In a game with penalties for not voting, do you think lurking is a valid scum strategy? Guiri, the person you went to see is still alive so I didn't think you were a killer. Fair enough but to use your result as a reason not to vote me is a stretch. I won't [ vote] for you cos I saw what you did last night One more thought: Maybe the only purpose for the Heretics and Pagans is to sow confusion and discord amongst those who should be banding together against the Devils. And your vote is on which player? NOW can we hunt for Devils and take religion off the fracking table? And your vote is on which player? And your vote is on which player? Lurker votes based on Todays participation (and yes, I deserve one too, sorry about that) What? How do these votes make sense? If she has claimed, I have completely missed it. Hockey Monkey has claimed that Dizzy is 100% Christian. Were you really waiting for someone to go look for you? Vote Chucara
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:42:50 GMT -5
Vote Chucara
There.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 18:43:50 GMT -5
Ahem.. I just read the latter half of the day.
Unvote: DizzyMizzLizzy
I'm more than content to belive Hockey.
But thanks for the OMGUS guiri and mahaloth.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:46:50 GMT -5
Ah, I see that Dizzy is apparently 100% christian? I still don't get why he/she said we should kill heretics.
Unvote Dizzy
My post on Chucara still stands. The idea of me suggesting killing third parties over Devils is ludicrous.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:47:26 GMT -5
But thanks for the OMGUS guiri and mahaloth. It's not OMGUS. I responded that you fabricated. Please post the evidence that I tried to coerce the players to hunt third parties over Devils.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 18:48:54 GMT -5
Mahaloth: I'm not lying - albeit somewhat concealed, you are hinting that Pagans might be third party -twice. Who’s to say Pagans are Town and Christians are third party? It is weird, for sure. So weird that I believe it wouldn't be made up. I don't have any direct or special evidence, but I believe Pagans and Christians are on the same team(I'm a Christian, by the way). All I can do is echo the question: If Pagans are on the same team as Christians, what's the point of having a separate distinction? So Christian vs. Pagan vs. Devils, or Christian & Pagan vs. Devils. My gut reaction was that Pagans are third party, but I'm not so sure. I do see that they could be a town ally, but what is the point of creating another category if they have the same wincon? I don't get it. Your reaction to a single vote makes me more confident that my vote is in the right place.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:50:15 GMT -5
That's your evidence? You said I tried to coerce town to hunt third parties.
Your weak and lame attempt to get a vote in confirms my confidence that my vote is in the right place.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 16, 2013 18:50:31 GMT -5
NETA: No, you are not suggesting it DIRECTLY. In some ways, I would even prefer that. Your way is more subtle. I may be wrong, but that just pings me.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 18:53:12 GMT -5
NETA: No, you are not suggesting it DIRECTLY. In some ways, I would even prefer that. Your way is more subtle. I may be wrong, but that just pings me. I never indirectly suggested it in any post you quoted from me. I even said I believe pagan and christian to be on the same team. That's the opposite of sugggesting hunting third party. My comment on confusion over the point of having pagan and heretic with same wincon is what lots of folks have wondered.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 16, 2013 18:57:32 GMT -5
First and foremost we need to remove the Devils Pitting the rest against each other is counter-productive at this point Vote: suburban for doing just that Vote: dizzy for the same reason- among other things I’ll compose a proper case when I’m not at work But I wanted my votes on record as I said before – I don’t’ think it’s wise for us to ass-u-me that the different religions are parallel to what we ( some) believe IRL Excuse me, but when did I pit anyone against anyone else? I pointed out that if we assume that all non-Devil factions have the same wincon, then none could be win-stealing...but that I wasn't sure that was a good assumption to make. How exactly does that translate in your mind to "Kill the Unbelievers!"?
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Post by texcat on Feb 16, 2013 19:13:56 GMT -5
In a game with penalties for not voting, do you think lurking is a valid scum strategy? Absolutely. We've seen it again and again. Perhaps abandoning the game entirely might not be a good strategy. Although no one forgave penalties last Night, BillMc showed that it was easy to do on N1. And you would need 4 penalties before you were removed, that's a heck of a lot of lurking.
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Post by LightFoot on Feb 16, 2013 19:28:20 GMT -5
guiri I am not going to quote your multi quote I have voted What exactly is your question? First and foremost we need to remove the Devils Pitting the rest against each other is counter-productive at this point Vote: suburban for doing just that Vote: dizzy for the same reason- among other things I’ll compose a proper case when I’m not at work But I wanted my votes on record as I said before – I don’t’ think it’s wise for us to ass-u-me that the different religions are parallel to what we ( some) believe IRL Excuse me, but when did I pit anyone against anyone else? I pointed out that if we assume that all non-Devil factions have the same wincon, then none could be win-stealing...but that I wasn't sure that was a good assumption to make. How exactly does that translate in your mind to "Kill the Unbelievers!"? It may be to you a subtle seed but you sowed it My frustration is directly related to a few things • My win-con-clues are exactly as stated • Pagans are not 3rd parties they are team mates ( anything different is something the Mod has not shared with the Pagans- that I know of) The game has decided that • Christians Must be the one true Town ( nice assumption for “you”)
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 16, 2013 19:40:38 GMT -5
You are being really, really paranoid here. You are seeing traps where none exist, and you're ignoring the evidence of your own win condition to do it. First off, your evidence that the game ends - heck, that the game CAN end - when a third-party meets their win condition, is what exactly? None. I'm just of the mind that we shouldn't ever assume anything "for sure" in a game of mafia. We're just going to have to agree to disagree then...but no matter, I pretty much agree with everything else you've ever said and feel you're Town. I just disagree with you about this viewpoint specifically. You seem like you're not going to be worrying about the other factions. I, personally, will continue to stay wary of them. You have that right, just as I have that right
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 20:56:11 GMT -5
You are being really, really paranoid here. You are seeing traps where none exist, and you're ignoring the evidence of your own win condition to do it. First off, your evidence that the game ends - heck, that the game CAN end - when a third-party meets their win condition, is what exactly? None. I'm just of the mind that we shouldn't ever assume anything "for sure" in a game of mafia. We're just going to have to agree to disagree then...but no matter, I pretty much agree with everything else you've ever said and feel you're Town. I just disagree with you about this viewpoint specifically. You seem like you're not going to be worrying about the other factions. I, personally, will continue to stay wary of them. You have that right, just as I have that right Agreed. Also I wouldn't go so far as to say I won't be "worrying about" the other factions. I just don't want to focus on them, to the detriment of hunting the faction I know for certain is a threat to me, which is the devils. As for the third-parties, I will question them as much and as often as I think is necessary... but because I think a devil might be hiding among their claimants (although for reasons already given, I think that's extremely unlikely at the moment. I was already fairly sure that both Wombat and Lightfoot weren't devils even before they claimed, and Lightfoot's confirmation of Crys is good enough for me.) I appreciate that they will not act in the interests of the Christians if those interests happen to clash with their own. I also see no reason to disbelieve their collective story that said interests do not currently clash, based on their actions (well, that and Wombat's insanity) and - once again - my own win condition. I'm content to keep a wary eye on them, but I'm not going to let them distract me from the devil-hunting that I have to do now my top suspect by miles has just been cleared by a claimed Christian. Also, CHUCARA IS NOT A DEVIL. I know I've hedged around this one, saying "well, I haven't investigated him", etc, but I'm still certain on this. And no, I can't say why or how I know, so there's only my word for this. You either believe that I'm honest and competent, or you don't. If you do, you shouldn't be voting Chucara. Damn, why the heck does this work for FootballGorilla and not for me?
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 16, 2013 21:28:54 GMT -5
Also, CHUCARA IS NOT A DEVIL. I know I've hedged around this one, saying "well, I haven't investigated him", etc, but I'm still certain on this. And no, I can't say why or how I know, so there's only my word for this. You either believe that I'm honest and competent, or you don't. If you do, you shouldn't be voting Chucara. I've obviously messed up, then. My error seems to be that I don't get your role or how you know this. Would it be wise for you to tell us how you know? If you have, can you remind me since I've obviously missed it? Thanks.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 16, 2013 21:31:15 GMT -5
Actually, you know what, let's make absolutely certain of this. I'm going to be as cryptic as I can here.
On Day One, I thought Chucara may have had access to a piece of information that I was given by Pleonast but that no devil could possibly have. I tested him - and he seemed to pass. I set a trap that he didn't fall into. In the unlikely event that I've read this situation wrong, here's a test that's quick and conclusive.
Chucara, here's a number sequence: 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50. What's wrong with that sequence? DON'T COMMENT ON WHAT I'VE JUST WRITTEN; don't give reasons; if you know what I'm referring to, you'll also know why I'm being as cryptic as I am. Just give me an answer.
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