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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 16:33:28 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 20, 2007 16:33:28 GMT -5
So you, as a pro-town power role, wanted to survive the first night by making the town think you're scum? Isn't that a bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face? Not really. I wasn't trying to make the town think I was scum, I was just trying to make the scum think I wasn't worth killing. There is a difference. Only in motivation, not in execution (no pun intended). Or if there is a difference, it's enough of a fine line that it's a risk not worth taking, especially since you have no way of knowing if the scum would have taken you out on the first night had you done something else. To me, it seems like you're backtracking, and that you were doing crazy things with the plan all along of role-claiming later and drawing on them as breadcrumbs. I did a bit of the same stuff in the last game.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 16:52:09 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 20, 2007 16:52:09 GMT -5
k. I still would like to know where anything I have said or done was either "crazy" or anti town.
But whatever. I think we have spent enough time on my role claim, don't you?
I am voting for Pleo because it would seem to be bad game mechanics to have his character in the game. And the more I think about that the more I realize that that is exactly the sort of bad thinking that got the town in trouble in firefly. The only thing I have against him at this point is his role claim.
unvote pleo I will be back with a new vote in a bit.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 16:58:50 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 20, 2007 16:58:50 GMT -5
PAGE 16 VOTE COUNT
NAF1138 (5) - Hal Briston, sinjin, Roosh, Diomedes, drainbead zuma (4) - episodeofblonde, Cookies, Kat, Yattara Pleonast (4) - hockey monkey, kassia, Santo Rugger, diggitcamara zeriel (3) - CatinaSuit, Captain Klutz, mhaye mhaye (2) - atarus, zeriel Kat (2) - Pleonast, Parzival kassia (1) - zuma
21 votes have been cast; Day to end in approximately 24 hours. Once again, I'm off to rehearsal, and so will be unable to answer questions or post vote counts until most likely tomorrow morning at 8:30AM EST. Have fun!
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 18:01:25 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 20, 2007 18:01:25 GMT -5
k. I still would like to know where anything I have said or done was either "crazy" or anti town. I think I've already said my peace about how voting to lynch lurkers on Day One is anti-town. Now that I realize that you were throwing that idea out there to draw suspicion, I'm falling back on Lynch All Liars. It's not exactly lying, but if you're putting controversial ideas out there just because they're controversial, and not because you actually believe what you're saying, then you're just trying to snow people. And we all know who else likes to snow people...
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 18:24:25 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Nov 20, 2007 18:24:25 GMT -5
So, you're saying that Pleonast's power isn't just probably anti-town but definitely anti-town? Can anyone explain to me the line of reasoning behind this? I read and re-read it and I'm not following. If the replicants are 'resistant' to night kills, than any town-determined night kill becomes a very dangerous thing: not only is there the chance of friendly fire (if the bomb is planted under a Colonist's house), but there's a reduced chance of it even killing a replicant if Pleo knows where to put it. A pure Vig ability is somewhat neutral towards the town, a Vig ability that is less likely to kill scum, but is totally effective in killing townies is an anti-town ability.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 18:33:36 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 20, 2007 18:33:36 GMT -5
k. I still would like to know where anything I have said or done was either "crazy" or anti town. I think I've already said my peace about how voting to lynch lurkers on Day One is anti-town. Now that I realize that you were throwing that idea out there to draw suspicion, I'm falling back on Lynch All Liars. It's not exactly lying, but if you're putting controversial ideas out there just because they're controversial, and not because you actually believe what you're saying, then you're just trying to snow people. And we all know who else likes to snow people... Faulty logic, and I would say scummy logic. I already said that I thought it was a good idea, I just defended it longer then normal. I still think it is a good idea. Remember you voted using random.org at first. That is no more pro town then my system. No less either, but if you think my system is scummy I can't understand how you are not voting for every person using random.org, let alone using random.org yourself. But hey YMMV. I am going to vote CIAS. 3 reasons. 1) his finding of zeriel's slip. By itself not too damning, but it is hard to imagin that slip being found if you weren't scum looking for someone to slip up. 2) This "why do you hate america post" defending said slip (which was scummy when Pleo did it too, BTW, but again on it's own isn't scummy enough to get even an FOS) Drainbead made a comment about how Day 1 tends to go and that it "needed to happen for the townies to have a chance at nabbing scum." (Day 1 reply 64).Compare that with Zeriel's post here. It just feels scummy to me. Researching this reminded me of something though. Blaster Master, the person who caught DrainBead's slip and flagged it up... was scum. This pattern was repeated in Firefly, when Santo Rugger attacked DarkCookies for a far less significant slip, and again both were scum. That's enough for me to put the Sharp Dressed Cat right up to the top of my suspicion list. Scum have been making a habit of aggressively attacking teammates for several games now, ever since Storyteller0910 used the tactic to such great effect in M2. Vote Zeriel. We'll be able to lynch the Zoot-Suited Cat if Zeriel turns out to be a Replicant.. And when I turn out to be town, they can lynch you the following night. Effectively, you are saying don't bring forward any slips because only the scum do that. In other words, everyone sits on anything they might see and hope they can come up with other reasons to vote for people because raising a slip will get you lynched. Sheesh! 3) He was the third person to come out and say Pleo and myself were scummy. I know I know, the #3 thing how dare I! I became a thing because it has merrit, and I think that because he didn't vote (it was only a smudge). I went back to see where Pleo and I had gain all this suspicion...Day 0 our ideas were treaded like ideas. Early Day 1 (the first 6 pages or so) our ideas were just ideas. Hal, Roosh, and CIAS come in saying we are scummy for our ideas (something generally thought to be a scum tell, but not in this game) and suddenly we are at the top of the list. On it's own, not much. Put it with the other two, we are starting to see some subtle scum action. 4) In his most recent post he said Pleo and myself were most likely town. Interesting comming from one of the early adopters of the "Pleo and NAF" are scum line. 5)He has posted 24 times to the game and said very little. 6) My gut tells me I am right. And my gut has a good track record. Put it all together and that is why I am voting CIAS.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 18:34:06 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 20, 2007 18:34:06 GMT -5
huh, well it was originally 3 reasons. Now it is 6.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 18:54:10 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 20, 2007 18:54:10 GMT -5
Ok, wow, lots of new info since I checked in this afternoon. I have to say, Pleo is not looking good here. NAF has not completely cleared himself but it seems like his power, if he's telling the truth, could actually be useful to us. Pleo's, not so much. In fact, again, if NAF is telling the truth about Replicants being nightkill-resistant, it becomes even worse than a regular Crazy Townie type role.
I recognise my vote for zuma is relatively weak (though I still believe he was not acting in a very pro-town fashion). I think I will
unvote zuma vote Pleonast
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 19:00:10 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 20, 2007 19:00:10 GMT -5
I am going to vote CIAS. 3 reasons. 1) his finding of zeriel's slip. By itself not too damning, but it is hard to imagin that slip being found if you weren't scum looking for someone to slip up. 2) This "why do you hate america post" defending said slip (which was scummy when Pleo did it too, BTW, but again on it's own isn't scummy enough to get even an FOS) And when I turn out to be town, they can lynch you the following night. Effectively, you are saying don't bring forward any slips because only the scum do that. In other words, everyone sits on anything they might see and hope they can come up with other reasons to vote for people because raising a slip will get you lynched. Sheesh! 3) He was the third person to come out and say Pleo and myself were scummy. I know I know, the #3 thing how dare I! I became a thing because it has merrit, and I think that because he didn't vote (it was only a smudge). I went back to see where Pleo and I had gain all this suspicion...Day 0 our ideas were treaded like ideas. Early Day 1 (the first 6 pages or so) our ideas were just ideas. Hal, Roosh, and CIAS come in saying we are scummy for our ideas (something generally thought to be a scum tell, but not in this game) and suddenly we are at the top of the list. On it's own, not much. Put it with the other two, we are starting to see some subtle scum action. 4) In his most recent post he said Pleo and myself were most likely town. Interesting comming from one of the early adopters of the "Pleo and NAF" are scum line. <snip> <Colour removed> This... is very interesting. Particularly points 1 and 4 make a lot of sense. FoS CIAS. Not enough for a vote yet (we have more pressing issues to sort out) but I am def. wondering what's going on here.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 19:10:19 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 20, 2007 19:10:19 GMT -5
I just want to point out that prior to CIAS, atarus and zuma have both also posted beliefs that NAF and Pleo aren't scum. Three individuals saying that on Day 1, regardless of anyone's alignments, is just freakin' mind-boggling.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 19:36:27 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 20, 2007 19:36:27 GMT -5
I just want to point out that prior to CIAS, atarus and zuma have both also posted beliefs that NAF and Pleo aren't scum. Three individuals saying that on Day 1, regardless of anyone's alignments, is just freakin' mind-boggling. Indeed. CIAS has become more suspicious to me due to his pretty unmotivated volte-face. atarus, I understand your point on there being a difference between 'scummiest' and 'anti-towniest' but I'm not sure that we have the power to distinguish them as well as you think at this point. Are you adopting a 'believe all power role claims' policy? I'm not sure that in a closed set up like this it is such a great idea to be so trusting.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 20:17:48 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Nov 20, 2007 20:17:48 GMT -5
atarus, I understand your point on there being a difference between 'scummiest' and 'anti-towniest' but I'm not sure that we have the power to distinguish them as well as you think at this point. Are you adopting a 'believe all power role claims' policy? I'm not sure that in a closed set up like this it is such a great idea to be so trusting. No, I'm not going to believe all power roles. I do, however, believe Pleo and NAF's claims. It just so happens both claimed a power role. I would have believed them if they had been vanilla claims as well, mostly because I think they're both townies that got too verbal for their own good. I'm always trying to look at the glass half-full, not half-empty. Firefly Day 1 was a disaster, and helped the scum out a ton. Why? Because we rallied up votes on all the really verbal people and most of them role-claimed. Roosh brought up a bad plan that nobody agreed with, and then role-claimed an ability that didn't sit well with some people's stomachs. Sound familiar? He was town. In fact, all the people that we rallied against on Day 1 and got to role-claim because we were in closed set-up hyperactiveness? They were all town, whether we believed them or not. It's just something to think about. Draw the parallels between this Day 1 and Firefly Day 1. Roosh = NAF and Pleonast (bad idea, talked a lot, weird role claim), dotchan/dnooman = zeriel (posted something that was interpreted as anti-town), MadtheSwine = zuma (posted erratically and didn't sit well with people). And before anyone says this game isn't Firefly, yeah yeah, I know. But Firefly is the only real closed game we have to compare to this one. It's not this group's first experience as a closed one, I'm hoping we learned from our mistakes and can learn from them. Scum really don't have a reason to act weird on Day 1, usually a townie does it for them. Just sayin'.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 21:45:38 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 20, 2007 21:45:38 GMT -5
I think I've already said my peace about how voting to lynch lurkers on Day One is anti-town. Now that I realize that you were throwing that idea out there to draw suspicion, I'm falling back on Lynch All Liars. It's not exactly lying, but if you're putting controversial ideas out there just because they're controversial, and not because you actually believe what you're saying, then you're just trying to snow people. And we all know who else likes to snow people... Faulty logic, and I would say scummy logic. I already said that I thought it was a good idea, I just defended it longer then normal. I still think it is a good idea. Remember you voted using random.org at first. That is no more pro town then my system. No less either, but if you think my system is scummy I can't understand how you are not voting for every person using random.org, let alone using random.org yourself. But hey YMMV. I voted for governor using random.org, after saying why I thought it might be a good idea. I have voted to lynch nobody but you.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 21:46:45 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 20, 2007 21:46:45 GMT -5
That having been said, your case against CIAS is excellent.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 22:43:25 GMT -5
Post by zuma on Nov 20, 2007 22:43:25 GMT -5
Just getting caught up...
Atarus stated my beliefs better than I did. Every single game starts out with day 1 pile-ons of what turn out to be loud-mouth townies with bad ideas. It's been like a broken record in that respect, so much so that it leads me to be more suspicious of the pilers-on than said loudmouth himself. I wonder why the third-vote thing (the only thing that ever worked on day 1) tends to get dismissed (and it IS valid if said person doesn't know about it) in favor of the only thing that has never worked.
Anyway, since I was last here we've had two role-claims, and I don't have much to add that hasn't been said before. Pleo's is useless in determining his alignment, and the power's value to the town is negligable if not negative. I don't see any reason why he should use it anytime soon (if he's being truthful).
If NAF's claim is true he's potentially one of the most powerful players in the game. An unkillable townie would be very bad for scum, especially if he's able to use it on a power role. While it's not directly testable (short of a few gaming-the-system scenarios I was thinking about but are much too dangerous to try this early), if he manages to make it far into the game without being able to use it, or if scum end up being night-killed, NAF needs to be re-examined. In short, if he's scum he's bought himself a few days, and if not, it should become apparent before too long.
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 23:29:53 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Nov 20, 2007 23:29:53 GMT -5
Questions, and thoughts: 1. An unkillable townie would be very bad for scum, especially if he's able to use it on a power role. -Zuma on NAF. --I missed this. Where did NAF say he could create unkillable townies?
2. The CREATOR claim. -- The first thing I thought of was "Wait, NAF is Philip K Dick???" Only because i hate anyone who roleclaims God or the originiator of a series, I feel its a scum tell (Like Capt. Klutz's "I'll claim Joss Wedon Idea" from FireFly). But Then I read the claim, and it's not the same thing. It's basically in my mind, like a witchdoctor sorta role. -But my thoughts: i worry, NAF- the people you bring back, are you SURE they stay on whatever side they stay on? Like Townies come back townies? And not like secret supplicants or cyborgs that the Evil Replicants can mess with? Basically, can you confirm that the people you bring back will stay good?
3. Resistant != immune. (what's the "!" mean? I take it to mean does not equal), Am I right?
4. I noticed you removed something for the safety of the Town. Just saying. :raises eyebrow: But fine. Also, I was going to ask how do you know that rogue repplicants are resistant, maybe only yours are, but I read your 2nd post on the matter, and it says "Standard resistance", i presume that's what you're using to deduce that information then?
5. My Summed up Thoughts on You, NAF: Your role, if true, seems like a powerful role that could help us out in the long run. The only fears I have is that you might be a misled scientist. IE: you may THINK that you can control your replicant, but remember that's what got us into this whole mess to begin with. Though it would be bastardly of Story, it's the Paranoia that comes with the Turf. So i fear that you may CREATE with GOOD intentions a replicant, but then it may go rogue or modified somehow by the Rogues. However, that becomes then a bridge that's further down the road. And unless you completely bullshitted your role, I don't see it as a harmful one being covered up in some way, unless you're a replicant doctor or something that actually MAKES a new evil replicant (which wouldn't be a recruitment then, if you create a new player anew). However, this WIFOM is easily solved. If we let you live for a while, we'll eventually have a trail, and hopefully if someone checks you out in later days, and you turn out fine and dandy, we're good to go. However, should someone find you scummy, then we'll def. examine you again. So i think it's in our best interests to let you live, as you could help us a lot more if you truly are a good dude. But i fear technology.... And good intentions paved someone's proverb sometime ago. So I'll be wary of you. But I don't think you're the play then. In a few days we can come back to you and see what's going down. Unvote Pleonast
6. Atarus.... BAD ATARUS! I REALLY hated your last post. It was just... terrible logic. Because you're neglecting something. You're only comparing Day 1 to Day 1, and assuming it's a closed system. You're leaving out the chances that Scum have ALSO seen the effects of a Day 1 from FF, and can revise their plans. Also, You forgot the Day 2 or 3 was it- The one where Kylee Frye the Role Blocker showed up. What did she do? She gave her alibi as fitting to EVERY significant Event that had been going on from the start of that game. That to me... is alarm bells. And that's what I'm thinking when I read your post 461. I HATE People who "make the pieces fit perfectly" because game's don't WORK that way, and it's just Crap logic. So I'm gonna have to come right out and FOS You, ATARUS. I gots my eye on you! (O_<) I expect you to know better than to do that. We gotta ask questions, and we gotta be suspicious, I dislike that you're so comfortable with giving people free passes, and that whole if X is like y, and Y is like w, then let's not worry about anything. That to me... STINKS, man. Come on, i expect you to know better. (>_O) And also: It's not this group's first experience as a closed one, I'm hoping we learned from our mistakes and can learn from them. -Atarus ... Dude. You shoulda quit that sentence while you were ahead....
7. So voting:
Right now, I've had time to think about it, and I think my initial instincts were right, and I was scared off by the early role claim. I am currently more believing of NAF's role, and feel its the "safer" role. Pleonast however, is not the same way. I disliked his tactics earlier, and I still don't like them. Also, his role to me seems more like someone who isn't playing on the town's side, but more for keeps. How many bombs does he have? And did he know that replicants were resistant to them? When I claimed my role last game, I did it to be as Pro-Town as possible, because I was a townie, so I made up my claim in such a way that noone would be hurt by it, and it would only add WIFOM to the scum's plate (and the Vig but still). This one... doesn't seem the same. So i am tending to believe that Pleo IS a crazy Unibomber. But I'm less believing that he's a townie unibomber. I'm gonna go with my initial gut instincts and ReVote Pleonast
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Day One
Nov 20, 2007 23:30:38 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Nov 20, 2007 23:30:38 GMT -5
Edit to the above. Unvote NAFRevote Pleonast
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 0:07:48 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 21, 2007 0:07:48 GMT -5
The problem with only coming to this thread a few times a day is that people say what I wanted to say: I was making more or less the same points about CIAS as NAF was. I'm more happy with that than I was with my previous vote. unvote mhaye vote catinasuit
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 0:12:20 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Nov 21, 2007 0:12:20 GMT -5
I think this one can be answered: Basically, can you confirm that the people you bring back will stay good? Only if Story is a right bastard. I'll provide the exact quote this time: In Gameplay Basics: If NAF is telling the truth (and I stress that part), then the people he brings back cannot change sides. We also do have the 'rogue replicant' statement and maybe it does actually mean something in light of this. We don't have to kill all the replicants to win. (Of course, NAF could have used this tidbit for a false claim.)
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 1:02:04 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 1:02:04 GMT -5
1) his finding of zeriel's slip. By itself not too damning, but it is hard to imagin that slip being found if you weren't scum looking for someone to slip up. So this is the new scum tell instead of the third vote, finding a slip on the first day. You don't think that given the number of games and slips made pointed out on Scum boards afterwards that some people might be actively looking for what the scum considered slips. 2) This "why do you hate america post" defending said slip (which was scummy when Pleo did it too, BTW, but again on it's own isn't scummy enough to get even an FOS) I wasn't defending the slip. I am defending the fact that it was consider a scumtell to find a slip. As I have said along along about the "slip" YMMV, its Day 1, you can take it for whatever you like. 3) He was the third person to come out and say Pleo and myself were scummy. I know I know, the #3 thing how dare I! I became a thing because it has merrit, and I think that because he didn't vote (it was only a smudge). I went back to see where Pleo and I had gain all this suspicion...Day 0 our ideas were treaded like ideas. Early Day 1 (the first 6 pages or so) our ideas were just ideas. Hal, Roosh, and CIAS come in saying we are scummy for our ideas (something generally thought to be a scum tell, but not in this game) and suddenly we are at the top of the list. On it's own, not much. Put it with the other two, we are starting to see some subtle scum action. As far as I am concerned, Pleonast's and your ideas sucked big at the start of the day, not to mention carrying out really stupid scummy behaviour like random voting while trying to back it up with really crappy justification. And I do mean crappy, IMHO of course. Your defence of your ideas was poor and your actions suspect at best. 4) In his most recent post he said Pleo and myself were most likely town. Interesting comming from one of the early adopters of the "Pleo and NAF" are scum line. And now its a scum tell to change your mind? Should I continue to consider you scum and get you lynched? If I now consider you to be more town than scum, that would be foolish. What changed my mind, looking back over your posts from the rest of the day in light of your roleclaim and actions and trying to consider again whether you were likely to be scum or town. For the record, I now consider you to be a pair of idiot townies instead of scum from your actions. Which would you prefer? 5)He has posted 24 times to the game and said very little. Definitely YMMV 6) My gut tells me I am right. And my gut has a good track record. And on this occasion, your gut is wrong. But never mind. Being honest, I consider you to be more scummy than Pleonast given roleclaims and actions, but for Day 1, I am happy with the slip as it is the only soild "maybe" I have found in the game so far. And there currently isn't a lot to go on. The two discussions that you and Pleonast, saw to that.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 1:04:42 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 1:04:42 GMT -5
And I reserve the right to change my mind again, if I wish.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 1:30:36 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Nov 21, 2007 1:30:36 GMT -5
6. Atarus.... BAD ATARUS! I REALLY hated your last post. It was just... terrible logic. Because you're neglecting something. You're only comparing Day 1 to Day 1, and assuming it's a closed system. You're leaving out the chances that Scum have ALSO seen the effects of a Day 1 from FF, and can revise their plans. Also, You forgot the Day 2 or 3 was it- The one where Kylee Frye the Role Blocker showed up. What did she do? She gave her alibi as fitting to EVERY significant Event that had been going on from the start of that game. That to me... is alarm bells. And that's what I'm thinking when I read your post 461. I HATE People who "make the pieces fit perfectly" because game's don't WORK that way, and it's just Crap logic. So I'm gonna have to come right out and FOS You, ATARUS. I gots my eye on you! (O_<) I expect you to know better than to do that. We gotta ask questions, and we gotta be suspicious, I dislike that you're so comfortable with giving people free passes, and that whole if X is like y, and Y is like w, then let's not worry about anything. That to me... STINKS, man. Come on, i expect you to know better. (>_O) And also: It's not this group's first experience as a closed one, I'm hoping we learned from our mistakes and can learn from them. - Atarus... Dude. You shoulda quit that sentence while you were ahead.... "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." I'm not saying the pieces fit perfectly. I'm not saying that of NAF, Pleonast, zeriel, and zuma, there's no chance that any of them are scum and this game is playing out exactly like Firefly. But at the same time, what are the chances that all four of them are all scum? That we as a town managed to nail four scummies the very first Day? Yeah, I really don't believe that. And honestly, the odds are a lot better for the glass half-full option (meaning all four are town) than the glass half-empty option (all four are scum). Because right now to me, it looks like we're just going to be going down a line here. Pleo today. People are still suspicious of NAF, so him tomorrow? If both turn up town, what is everybody that's so hardcore against both of them going to do? Go "Aw, shucks, we just nailed two town power roles to the wall. Gee, I'm really sorry guys. Forgive me?" I don't like that you are trying to put words into my mouth. You saying that I'm giving NAF and Pleo a "free pass." I'm saying I believe their role-claims. Is it so awful that yes, I actually believe both of them? Yeah, if one of them turns up scum, I look like an idiot and I got fooled. It happens. I'm also going to give a general, non-colored FOS to anybody who's been sliding in those slight tweaks to people's minds about recruitment. You know who you are, the ones who say "Story said there wasn't any recruitment, but if he was really a bastard he could..." Just stop. That is anti-town behavior right there. There is no need to stir up the idea of recruitment in a game where the host has outright said there will be no recruitment.Honestly, at this point I feel like the Champion for Pleonast, since he isn't here to defend himself. And it doesn't seem like I'm doing that swell of a job.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 1:51:39 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Nov 21, 2007 1:51:39 GMT -5
But at the same time, what are the chances that all four of them are all scum? That we as a town managed to nail four scummies the very first Day? Yeah, I really don't believe that. And honestly, the odds are a lot better for the glass half-full option (meaning all four are town) than the glass half-empty option (all four are scum). I don't see the glass as half full or half empty. I see it as there's dirty water in my glass, dammit! This isn't all or none here. 4 Scum is HIGHLY UNLIKELY in my mind on Day 1. 4 townies is also in my book more likely than 4 scum, but still less likely. I believe that there is scum somewhere in there. Unless no one who is suspicious is actually scum, in which case this game isn't Mafia, and trying to see who's scummy is pointless. So I'm gonna go with my thoughts (That one in there is more likely to be scum), and I'm voting for the one who I believe is most likely to be scum. NAF, i say we wait on, I would not be in favor of lynching him tomorrow, however, if someone SAYS we should lynch him tomorrow and provides a valid reason to do so, then we lynch the bastich. If no one speaks up though, I'm content to let NAF live, and I'll start to trust the role claim. However, I won't believe it until he shows us his fantastical new replicant. That's the only way I'll believe NAF 100%. And to me, it does look like a Free Pass, Atarus. Cuz you're not really casting suspicions, you're just defending everyone from my point of view. It's really... icky. Unless you know something we don't. It's one reason, why (O_<) But I don't think you look the scummiest, toDay. And you forget, new data will be added by tonight, and tomorrow. We'll have bodies, we'll have paper trails, and we'll have vote counts. So it's not just we go down the line and lynch the 4 most suspicious people today. We look at the evidence EVERY day and make our choices based on that. I shouldn't have to tell you that, and I know I don't. But that's my biggest problem actually with you: You're treating this as a closed system, and I really really don't like that.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 4:10:44 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 4:10:44 GMT -5
Oh and another reason for leaving my vote where it is, I have just looked back over zeriel's posts after I mentioned the alleged anti-town slip. He has responded with Point the first: I have always hated the grammar slip accusations, mostly because I tend to strategize in the third person. =P and I'm gonna really hate being the test case for "townies can refer to the town in third person too" slips. Neither of which says that I am actually wrong with my slip. If he was a Colonist, I would at least have expected him to say something when I first mentioned it.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 7:04:10 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 21, 2007 7:04:10 GMT -5
And I reserve the right to change my mind again, if I wish. It wasn't the change of mind per se that pinged me, but the fact that it seemed like once you had found zeriel's 'slip', you dropped the NAF-Pleo train like a rock and decided they were 'likely town'. That'd pretty bold for Day One and smacks of target-jumping. What was it about Pleo's claim that gave you the 'likely town' impression? What do you make of his 'Us Colonists' usage, since you seem to be focused on language?
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 7:43:51 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Nov 21, 2007 7:43:51 GMT -5
I've skimmed through recent posts, but can't really respond in any detail.
NAF's role claim seems believable to me because it reassures me that my role is more useful than I first thought. Because my bomb is certain to destroy its target. I didn't mention that in my role claim, because I didn't think it remarkable information.
But with this new information, my role is probably a supplement to an actual Vig role, if it can't be certain of killing its target. The slowness and one-off-ness of my bomb makes more sense in terms of game balance. My original view was that my role wasn't much more useful than a vanilla colonist, but it's looking now that a one-off, certain Night-kill might actually be very useful.
Players who are continuing to push the electrocution of me or NAF are looking very suspicious to me. We have no idea how many or what power roles the Colony has. Why are people voting for us? Unless you flat-out think I'm lying, why?
There's a lot of very sloppy logic being used around here. A lot of it revolves around things being called scummy when in it's more a matter of opinion than that it's actually anti-Colony. When a Colonist ends up being electrocuted, I hope someone goes back and calls people on it.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 7:58:10 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 21, 2007 7:58:10 GMT -5
Well, Pleo, I did think you were lying. But something about your last post (tone, maybe) makes me second-guess myself. I think I have to
unvote Pleonast
for now. I know there is limited time left but I will try to get back before the deadline and place a final vote.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:03:42 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 21, 2007 8:03:42 GMT -5
Based on Pleonast's new info, unvote NAF. If this is a scum gambit, we'll find out soon enough.
Tossing around between CIAS and Diomedes as to who to vote for now, but I'm not sure. I'll check in before the Day is over.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:18:14 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 8:18:14 GMT -5
It wasn't the change of mind per se that pinged me, but the fact that it seemed like once you had found zeriel's 'slip', you dropped the NAF-Pleo train like a rock and decided they were 'likely town'. That'd pretty bold for Day One and smacks of target-jumping. What was it about Pleo's claim that gave you the 'likely town' impression? What do you make of his 'Us Colonists' usage, since you seem to be focused on language? Actually, I decided they were more likely to be Colonists after their roleclaims and not before. If you check what I have said, I have been pointing out flaws in Pleonast's plan for a while after the "scum slip". I would be curious to know what you mean by target jumping. My vote has remained on zeriel since the start and although I have found fault with both NAF and Pleonast and the action plans they endorsed, I have yet to vote for them. In terms of "Us colonists" I found two references to it. One in Night Zero in response to NAF after the PM's had been given out but before the game had actually started: How can us other Colonists discern your alignment when you're voting robotically? You can defend yourself by saying my algorithm made me do it. So, at least for me, anyone following a purely mechanical rule to decide their vote is slightly suspicious. The other in Day 1: Using "random" as your reason for voting for someone (either Governor or Chair) is just as worthless as using the lowest post count. It's an attempt at denying personal accountability. "The dice made me do it" (or any mechanical procedure) does not help other Colonists decide if you're acting in the interest of the Colony or the Replicants. Us Colonists need to see the motivations of others. That's the most reliable way us vanilla Colonists have to separate the wheat from the chaff. These are the players who've used "random" as an excuse to vote for someone: Parzival, Cookies, Kat, kassia, Yattara. (drainbead original randomed someone, but retracted it an made a reasoned vote.) I ask all these players to reconsider their mechanical vote and place a vote based on a reason. You know, so us information-starved Colonists have something to work with? I would put this more down to horrible sounding English rather than a scum slip. Yes, it does sound like a plea to say "I'm a townie, please believe me", but it makes more sense in the light of his roleclaim, especially given people's reaction to his claim. The other reason for being more accepting of Pleonast's claim. He has picked one of the few pro-town roles that is more likely to get him lynched than just claiming vanilla. On Day 1, I would have expected a scum to pick something slightly more beneficial to the town to prevent him getting lynched.
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Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:27:52 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 21, 2007 8:27:52 GMT -5
OK. For some reason I thought you had voted for NAF earlier in the day, sorry about that. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that now, if we decide (and I think we probably should) not to lynch NAF or Pleo, we're stuck. Do we really want to lynch Day One on whether or not zeriel made a scum slip/CIAS pushed him for a 'scum slip'?
Oy.
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