|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:32:14 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 21, 2007 8:32:14 GMT -5
CIAS: Things I have stated in other games include the following: "I am vanilla town" is a worthless roleclaim and it's a waste of time to make it. Any actual vanilla townie will say it when they're in lynch danger, because it's true. Any actual scum might as well say it, because it's impossible to counterclaim. The only people who might choose not to make it are townie power roles because they want to avoid the 'lynch all liars' strategy--but then again, it might well still be safer to hide in claimed vanilla-ness.
So can we please just start assuming that there's a "sure, I'm vanilla town" claim in there for everyone in the absence of any other claims?
In other words, your justification upthread for leaving the vote on me is even more pointless than voting for me on the original slip.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:35:30 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 21, 2007 8:35:30 GMT -5
Also: ironic as it is to say, mild FOS episodeofblonde. Little verbal slips have had a history of catching scum, and, well, if there's nothing else to go on then we'll do what we have to do. Really, I don't need you defending me, I don't know you from Adam (or Eve, I didn't note your gender).
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:41:31 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 21, 2007 8:41:31 GMT -5
I still think zuma's drunkplay is at the very least more hurtful to town at this point than anything other than CIAS's malfunctioning scumdar. Since a CIAS lynch is getting zero traction, and I like my own skin regular instead of extra-crispy,
unvote CIAS vote zuma
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:51:26 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 8:51:26 GMT -5
CIAS: Things I have stated in other games include the following: "I am vanilla town" is a worthless roleclaim and it's a waste of time to make it. Any actual vanilla townie will say it when they're in lynch danger, because it's true. Any actual scum might as well say it, because it's impossible to counterclaim. The only people who might choose not to make it are townie power roles because they want to avoid the 'lynch all liars' strategy--but then again, it might well still be safer to hide in claimed vanilla-ness. So can we please just start assuming that there's a "sure, I'm vanilla town" claim in there for everyone in the absence of any other claims? In other words, your justification upthread for leaving the vote on me is even more pointless than voting for me on the original slip. Actually, I was at expecting you to tell me I was wrong when I made the point, not roleclaim because I pointed it out. Go and read the slip again, it is not just you speaking in third person, it is HOW you spoke in third person that matters. For some different examples: go and read some of Pleonast's posts for someone doing third person strategising but in a townie manner. Your slip did not come across as townie. (and no this does not mean I know Pleonast is town, I just happen IMHO to think he is) And my justification for voting for you, is frankly, I haven't seen anything better, not because of your reaction to it.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:53:11 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Nov 21, 2007 8:53:11 GMT -5
In addition to NAF's case against CIAS, I would like to point out Post 75, Page 3, in which CIAS said he would like to take on the role of the Governor. I remember thinking that I should keep that in the back of my mind at the time, because I can't imagine campaigning for that job.
Vote CIAS.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 8:57:08 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 21, 2007 8:57:08 GMT -5
PAGE 17 VOTE COUNT
Pleonast (5) - hockey monkey, kassia, Santo Rugger, diggitcamara, Roosh zuma (4) - Cookies, Kat, Yattara, zeriel NAF1138 (3) - Hal Briston, sinjin, Diomedes zeriel (3) - CatinaSuit, Captain Klutz, mhaye Kat (2) - Pleonast, Parzival CatinaSuit (2) - NAF1138, drainbead mhaye (1) - atarus kassia (1) - zuma
21 votes have been cast; The Day will end (with a lynchin'!) in exactly 8 hours, at 5:00PM EST.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 10:15:21 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 21, 2007 10:15:21 GMT -5
6. Atarus.... BAD ATARUS! I REALLY hated your last post. It was just... terrible logic. Because you're neglecting something. You're only comparing Day 1 to Day 1, and assuming it's a closed system. You're leaving out the chances that Scum have ALSO seen the effects of a Day 1 from FF, and can revise their plans. Also, You forgot the Day 2 or 3 was it- The one where Kylee Frye the Role Blocker showed up. What did she do? She gave her alibi as fitting to EVERY significant Event that had been going on from the start of that game. That to me... is alarm bells. And that's what I'm thinking when I read your post 461. I HATE People who "make the pieces fit perfectly" because game's don't WORK that way, and it's just Crap logic. So I'm gonna have to come right out and FOS You, ATARUS. I gots my eye on you! (O_<) I expect you to know better than to do that. We gotta ask questions, and we gotta be suspicious, I dislike that you're so comfortable with giving people free passes, and that whole if X is like y, and Y is like w, then let's not worry about anything. That to me... STINKS, man. Come on, i expect you to know better. (>_O) And also: It's not this group's first experience as a closed one, I'm hoping we learned from our mistakes and can learn from them. - Atarus... Dude. You shoulda quit that sentence while you were ahead.... "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it." I'm not saying the pieces fit perfectly. I'm not saying that of NAF, Pleonast, zeriel, and zuma, there's no chance that any of them are scum and this game is playing out exactly like Firefly. But at the same time, what are the chances that all four of them are all scum? That we as a town managed to nail four scummies the very first Day? Yeah, I really don't believe that. And honestly, the odds are a lot better for the glass half-full option (meaning all four are town) than the glass half-empty option (all four are scum). Because right now to me, it looks like we're just going to be going down a line here. Pleo today. People are still suspicious of NAF, so him tomorrow? If both turn up town, what is everybody that's so hardcore against both of them going to do? Go "Aw, shucks, we just nailed two town power roles to the wall. Gee, I'm really sorry guys. Forgive me?" I don't like that you are trying to put words into my mouth. You saying that I'm giving NAF and Pleo a "free pass." I'm saying I believe their role-claims. Is it so awful that yes, I actually believe both of them? Yeah, if one of them turns up scum, I look like an idiot and I got fooled. It happens. I'm also going to give a general, non-colored FOS to anybody who's been sliding in those slight tweaks to people's minds about recruitment. You know who you are, the ones who say "Story said there wasn't any recruitment, but if he was really a bastard he could..." Just stop. That is anti-town behavior right there. There is no need to stir up the idea of recruitment in a game where the host has outright said there will be no recruitment.Honestly, at this point I feel like the Champion for Pleonast, since he isn't here to defend himself. And it doesn't seem like I'm doing that swell of a job. Sorry, Charlie, but one of the few logical implications to NAF's alleged powers is something lost in exchange for resurrection. No matter how you slice it, the possibility of the replicant's alignment being unstable as the price is going to go through people's minds, regardless of what story has said. Case in point, NAF has confirmed that there is indeed a trade-off, but he doesn't want to tell us what the trade off is because the scum could exploit the information. So, again, we have NAF WIFOM to deal with. I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I think it is a bad idea (read anti-town behavior) to smear those who are trying to reconcile what alleged intelligence can be gleaned from NAF's claim. Personally, story's assurances about recruitment do make me doubt any alignment hocus-pocus, but that didn't stop me from making the references that I made, and imho should not be a verbotten topic.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 10:20:52 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 21, 2007 10:20:52 GMT -5
In light of all the roll claiming I'll
unvote: NAF
at least for now.
I'll vote later in the day after doing a complete reread.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 10:31:18 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 21, 2007 10:31:18 GMT -5
Also: ironic as it is to say, mild FOS episodeofblonde. Little verbal slips have had a history of catching scum, and, well, if there's nothing else to go on then we'll do what we have to do. Really, I don't need you defending me, I don't know you from Adam (or Eve, I didn't note your gender). I'm female. (blonde with an e...) I know verbal slips have caught scum. I was not meaning to defend you - you could easily be scum. It's more that CIAS' 'catching' your slip also fits a scum pattern, as others have mentioned, of scum 'catching' other scum in slips. I'm not a big fan of using only verbal slips to lynch someone, but as you say, if that's all we've got to go on, that's all we've got to go on.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 10:41:27 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 21, 2007 10:41:27 GMT -5
UPDATED VOTE COUNT On the last day of the Day, I'll try to post one of these every two hours or so.
Pleonast (5) - hockey monkey, kassia, Santo Rugger, diggitcamara, Roosh zuma (4) - Cookies, Kat, Yattara, zeriel zeriel (3) - CatinaSuit, Captain Klutz, mhaye NAF1138 (2) - Hal Briston, Diomedes Kat (2) - Pleonast, Parzival CatinaSuit (2) - NAF1138, drainbead mhaye (1) - atarus kassia (1) - zuma
20 votes have been cast; The Day will end (with a lynchin'!) in approximately 6 hours, at 5:00PM EST.
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 11:09:49 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 21, 2007 11:09:49 GMT -5
I've skimmed through recent posts, but can't really respond in any detail. NAF's role claim seems believable to me because it reassures me that my role is more useful than I first thought. Because my bomb is certain to destroy its target. I didn't mention that in my role claim, because I didn't think it remarkable information. But with this new information, my role is probably a supplement to an actual Vig role, if it can't be certain of killing its target. The slowness and one-off-ness of my bomb makes more sense in terms of game balance. My original view was that my role wasn't much more useful than a vanilla colonist, but it's looking now that a one-off, certain Night-kill might actually be very useful. Players who are continuing to push the electrocution of me or NAF are looking very suspicious to me. We have no idea how many or what power roles the Colony has. Why are people voting for us? Unless you flat-out think I'm lying, why? There's a lot of very sloppy logic being used around here. A lot of it revolves around things being called scummy when in it's more a matter of opinion than that it's actually anti-Colony. When a Colonist ends up being electrocuted, I hope someone goes back and calls people on it. Unvote PleonastIn light of this post, I'll retract my vote and wait a few days to see how this information in conjunction with NAF's will play out. I agree with the case that has been brought forth against CatInASuit. I'll admit, that I haven't done the research myself, but Atarus' case seems sound to me. vote CatInASuit
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 11:36:14 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Nov 21, 2007 11:36:14 GMT -5
I've skimmed through recent posts, but can't really respond in any detail. NAF's role claim seems believable to me because it reassures me that my role is more useful than I first thought. Because my bomb is certain to destroy its target. I didn't mention that in my role claim, because I didn't think it remarkable information. But with this new information, my role is probably a supplement to an actual Vig role, if it can't be certain of killing its target. The slowness and one-off-ness of my bomb makes more sense in terms of game balance. My original view was that my role wasn't much more useful than a vanilla colonist, but it's looking now that a one-off, certain Night-kill might actually be very useful. Players who are continuing to push the electrocution of me or NAF are looking very suspicious to me. We have no idea how many or what power roles the Colony has. Why are people voting for us? Unless you flat-out think I'm lying, why? There's a lot of very sloppy logic being used around here. A lot of it revolves around things being called scummy when in it's more a matter of opinion than that it's actually anti-Colony. When a Colonist ends up being electrocuted, I hope someone goes back and calls people on it. Unvote PleonastIn light of this post, I'll retract my vote and wait a few days to see how this information in conjunction with NAF's will play out. I agree with the case that has been brought forth against CatInASuit. I'll admit, that I haven't done the research myself, but Atarus' case seems sound to me. vote CatInASuitYou do know we have about 6 hours, not a few days? Or are you referring to Days? Unkill: NAFRekill: PleoI like the NAF kill more than the Pleo kill right now, but I'll take either.
|
|
Death By Irony
FGM
The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
Posts: 109
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 11:50:41 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Nov 21, 2007 11:50:41 GMT -5
Analysis on those with at least 2 votes:
I'm inclined to believe Pleonast's claim, at least as far as the powers department goes.
My head STILL hurts thinking about zuma. Every time I come to a conclusion, I start second-guessing myself.
NAF's claimed role is definitely very powerful, if true, and his information on the Replicants at least fits with the flavor the game.
zeriel's usage of grammar isn't an ironclad scumtell, and he otherwise hasn't done anything that I found suspicious, at least.
As far as CatInASuit goes, I've never shied away from pointing out what looks suspicious--it's just that sometimes I'm not there first, or people don't agree with my scumdar.
I'm going to cross my fingers and vote zuma again, since I'm going to be driving home for Thanksgiving and I don't know if I'll be able to get online in time to vote otherwise.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 11:53:00 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 11:53:00 GMT -5
As far as CatInASuit goes, I've never shied away from pointing out what looks suspicious--it's just that sometimes I'm not there first, or people don't agree with my scumdar. Does this make me the new dotchan
|
|
RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
Posts: 284
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 11:54:37 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Nov 21, 2007 11:54:37 GMT -5
I agree with the case that has been brought forth against CatInASuit. I'll admit, that I haven't done the research myself, but Atarus' case seems sound to me. vote CatInASuit FOS HOCKEYMONKEY. I dislike Atarus' case. And i dislike "Me Too" votes. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I wanted to prevent in the last 24 hours....
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 11:55:50 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 21, 2007 11:55:50 GMT -5
I'm noticing yet another interesting change of SOP with this game compared to others. NAF is certainly not experiencing the same power-claim reprieve as has been observed in previous games.
To the NAF voters: Can you re-present your cases against NAF in light of previous trends of letting such claims age? Is his claim and behavior really so scummy as to blow past this previous conservative method?
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 12:00:48 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 21, 2007 12:00:48 GMT -5
Unvote PleonastIn light of this post, I'll retract my vote and wait a few days to see how this information in conjunction with NAF's will play out. I agree with the case that has been brought forth against CatInASuit. I'll admit, that I haven't done the research myself, but Atarus' case seems sound to me. vote CatInASuit You do know we have about 6 hours, not a few days? Or are you referring to Days? Unkill: NAFRekill: PleoI like the NAF kill more than the Pleo kill right now, but I'll take either. I mean subsequent game Days.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 12:01:48 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 21, 2007 12:01:48 GMT -5
Dio, I just went and re read all your posts (don't feel special, I am doing this with everyone)...and I have questions.
First off, if you read just your posts, you are like a freakin dog on a bone with Pleo. You won't let it go. This more then anything makes me less suspicious of you, but other then that you have a hard on for Pleo's electrocution and you think my role claim is incredulous, I don't have any idea why you think what you think.
The totallity of your posts can be summed up as "I agree" or "let's lynch Pleo" with a couple of "NAF is scummy's" thrown in there for good measure.
Mind telling us why you think that Pleo is scummy. In your own words perhaps? How about me, why is anything I did scummy? (Actually if anyone can answer this for me I will be happy. The best answer I have gotten so far is a variation on "it just is")
The reason I am asking is, there is a lot of sloppy logic being thrown around and not enough explication of suspicions. If the town keeps doing this it will never be possible to decern scum from town. Start explaining yourselves people. Even if you parrot what someone else has already said, give us more then just a "me too" post. Put it in your own words. Please.
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 12:05:15 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 21, 2007 12:05:15 GMT -5
I agree with the case that has been brought forth against CatInASuit. I'll admit, that I haven't done the research myself, but Atarus' case seems sound to me. vote CatInASuit FOS HOCKEYMONKEY. I dislike Atarus' case. And i dislike "Me Too" votes. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I wanted to prevent in the last 24 hours.... Well there wasn't much point in me rehashing it, I need to place a vote, and I was no longer comfortable with the one vote I've been holding all Day. Would you rather I not vote? Sorry if it's "me too", but I've been dialed in on Pleonast. I admitted that I hadn't done the research. And for that I get an FOS.
|
|
Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 12:24:16 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 21, 2007 12:24:16 GMT -5
I'm noticing yet another interesting change of SOP with this game compared to others. NAF is certainly not experiencing the same power-claim reprieve as has been observed in previous games. The reprieve has happened; reread the last 1½ pages and you'll see that there have been four people shift votes from NAF to someone else. Only Hal still has a vote for NAF, and I think that's a function of his being away. I'm still digesting the claims. I was momentarily inclined to shift to Pleo just for damage-control but his recent assertion removed that reason.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 12:37:42 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 21, 2007 12:37:42 GMT -5
Well, yes and no. The reprieves I refer to at least lasted a Night. Does it count as a reprieve if it roller-coasters back to a bandwagon within the same Day? I would say no.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 12:59:29 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 21, 2007 12:59:29 GMT -5
UPDATED VOTE COUNT
Pleonast (5) - kassia, Santo Rugger, diggitcamara, Roosh, Diomedes zuma (5) - Cookies, Kat, Yattara, zeriel, Death by Irony zeriel (3) - CatinaSuit, Captain Klutz, mhaye NAF1138 (1) - Hal Briston Kat (2) - Pleonast, Parzival CatinaSuit (3) - NAF1138, drainbead, hockey monkey mhaye (1) - atarus kassia (1) - zuma
21 votes have been cast; The Day will end (with a lynchin'!) in approximately 4 hours, at 5:00PM EST.
|
|
Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:05:43 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 21, 2007 13:05:43 GMT -5
Well, yes and no. The reprieves I refer to at least lasted a Night. Does it count as a reprieve if it roller-coasters back to a bandwagon within the same Day? I would say no. Fair point, but at the time of writing NAF has only one vote on him, down from a high point of 5 around post D1.445. Are you mixing him and Pleo up? Votes for Pleo have had more resiliency, especially after NAF's roleclaim.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:06:49 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Nov 21, 2007 13:06:49 GMT -5
I agree with the case that has been brought forth against CatInASuit. I'll admit, that I haven't done the research myself, but Atarus' case seems sound to me. vote CatInASuit FOS HOCKEYMONKEY. I dislike Atarus' case. And i dislike "Me Too" votes. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I wanted to prevent in the last 24 hours.... This is more towards Hockey Monkey than Roosh, but um. I'd like to point out that I really haven't said anything about Cat. Are you certain you meant to say me here? 'Cause it was NAF who said all the stuff about CatinaSuit, not me.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:20:21 GMT -5
Post by episodeofblonde on Nov 21, 2007 13:20:21 GMT -5
vote CatinaSuit
Whilst I dislike zeriel's defensiveness, I dislike Cat's attack more. NAF made some very good points, as I noted. We don't have much to go on, as zeriel helpfully pointed out. His (Cat's) defence to NAF's points has been somewhat uninspiring.
I see zuma is getting some more traction again. He's def. worth an FoS and a closer look.
atarus' case was against mhaye, I think. Can't find it atm.
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:30:54 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 21, 2007 13:30:54 GMT -5
vote CatinaSuitWhilst I dislike zeriel's defensiveness, I dislike Cat's attack more. NAF made some very good points, as I noted. We don't have much to go on, as zeriel helpfully pointed out. His (Cat's) defence to NAF's points has been somewhat uninspiring. I see zuma is getting some more traction again. He's def. worth an FoS and a closer look. atarus' case was against mhaye, I think. Can't find it atm. You are correct, and sorry atarus for the mis-attribution. Please substitute NAF for atarus in my post.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:36:06 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Nov 21, 2007 13:36:06 GMT -5
I see zuma is getting some more traction again. He's def. worth an FoS and a closer look. Why? I don't understand the case against zuma at all. Is it just that he asked to be subbed out while he was drunk?
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:36:16 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 21, 2007 13:36:16 GMT -5
In addition to NAF's case against CIAS, I would like to point out Post 75, Page 3, in which CIAS said he would like to take on the role of the Governor. I remember thinking that I should keep that in the back of my mind at the time, because I can't imagine campaigning for that job. Vote CIAS. Contrary to popular belief, I don't believe the Guv'nor role to be anti-town and can see very good pro-town reasons for a Colonist to hold it. Why, because it is worth an extra vote in certain situations for whoever holds the chair. If everyone wants to abdicate responsibility and pass it off to someone else (in this case Santo Rugger), it gives the scum a chance to put one of their own in power. And doesn't reflect well on the town either. I thought seeing as no-one else was going to, that I would run for it because it keeps the chair out of scum hands and so the town gets the use of the extra vote. That's it.
|
|
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:36:57 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Nov 21, 2007 13:36:57 GMT -5
augh, now I'm WIFOMing between zuma and CIAS.
|
|
Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day One
Nov 21, 2007 13:39:37 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Nov 21, 2007 13:39:37 GMT -5
If Pleo is telling the truth, and he has a 100% chance to kill (as I suspected), he's a little bit more useful (not much, but a little bit). I know with time short people aren't likely to change, just something I hope people keep in mind.
I'd probably like it better if I hadn't mentioned I was thinking something like that. I probably should have kept my thoughts to myself; once again a reason to stop idle speculation. At the time I was trying to prevent "one of them must be lying" arguments from getting out of hand, since those are often misguided but can lead to even future problems when the original reasoning is forgotten.
And atarus, were you seriously accusing me of trying to keep recruitment alive? When I actually quoted the opening line myself, in response to Roosh's apparent (real or feigned) ignorance? I was the one who said "bastard", and I meant that - story would have to be lying to his players for it to be the case. I guess I hoped it was obvious enough that I really don't think it's the case.
|
|